SEC

[bac2therac]

alot of talk about the Big 10 being overrated but SEC down to 1

6 seed LSU dumpster fire falls to the 11 seed

The most overrated school in the country 2nd seeded Auburn meekly goes out to a 10 seed

3rd seed Tennessee who looked like a legit national contender goes down to an 11 seed who was 17-14 and barely got in the tourney

6 seed Alabama gets taken out by the 11 seed playing a 2 game in 3 days.

2 seed Kentucky losses to 15th seeded St Peters

left standing is 4th seeded Arkansas who survived tough challenges from Vermont and New Mexico State and is now matched up with Gonzaga.

 

[ClassOf02v.2]

Thought about posting this same thread. B1G is not looking great, but in comparison, the SEC is a far worse performance.

So far, it’s really just Iowa & Wisconsin that haven’t pulled their weight. Illinois as a 4 seed lost to 5 seed Houston, but UH was favored and had much better metrics. 7 MSU lost to 2 Duke. 7 OSU lost to 2 Nova. 11 RU lost a 2OT game to 11 ND. 11 Michigan overachieving getting into Sweet 16. We’ll see about Purdue.

Iowa/Wisconsin underperforming is no where near the same level as Kentucky, Auburn, Tennessee, LSU underperforming.

 

[RU Husky]

Absolutely. Earlier in the season I thought the SEC was the dominant conference and played tournament style basketball. Completely shocked by some of these outcomes particularly Ky, Auburn and Tenn. Very poor performances and OP is right; this should be a bigger story than Big 10 failures.

I cannot defend the overall Big 10 performance. During the regular season Illinois, Iowa, Ohio State and Wisconsin were standard bearers for the conferences over all strength and were highly ranked nationally. Iowa couldn't win even 1 game in the tourney and the others won only 1 each. Indiana's loss to St. Mary's was an embarrassment. Michigan has performed to its pre and early season potential and Purdue has been ranked as high as #1 nationally and is playing to its strength. They are now the highest seeded team left in their bracket and should advance to the Elite 8 and likely to the Final Four.

RU's loss was gut wrenching for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is that they could have done some damage in the tournament if they got by ND.

 

[fluoxetine]

The expected range for Big Ten teams in the Sweet Sixteen was 2-3. Two is on the low end of that range but wouldn’t even really be worth talking about if not for last year. Wisconsin was always overrated because they won a lot of close games. Houston is simply better than Illinois. The real big disappointment is Iowa who had basically the easiest path a 5 seed could get to the Sweet 16 and decided to not show up against Richmond.

 

[Roy_Faulker]

And Iowa was hot after winning the BIG tournament.

 

[carmenst]

Houston was under seeded by the committee.

 

[fluoxetine]

Houston was under seeded by the committee.

I sympathize with the committee’s plight in seed a team like Houston. They are good enough to be a 1 seed but had the resume of a 5 or 6 seed and they don’t seem to have a consistent philosophy in these cases. Houston and Wisconsin got seeded based on resumes. Providence got seeded based on metrics. There’s no consistency.

 

[anon_ivydyf0amkzay]

Maybe they should have let A&M in

bayLOL is out, the castrated steers are out! Come on St Peters!

 

[Salvi's Headband]

Nobody likes this answer but it really is a crap shoot

 

[bac2therac]

Houston has players out that and their lack of wins vs field played a big role in their seeding. Hard to put them any higher than they were

 

[Salvi's Headband]

We all laughed at the ACC but they looked like the ACC of old once the tourney started

 

[fluoxetine]

Houston has players out that and their lack of wins vs field played a big role in their seeding. Hard to put them any higher than they were

See I agree with putting Houston where they did for the most part, but I don't understand Providence's seeding. I mean, I understand it, but I don't agree with it and I don't think it's consistent with, for example, Wisconsin's.

 

[rufeelinit]

Both conferences have been bad. Second year in a row for the B1G. ACC clearly shining thus far. Watching certain teams over perform has me again thinking what could have been last year if we hold on against Houston.

 

[Knight Shift]

alot of talk about the Big 10 being overrated but SEC down to 1

6 seed LSU dumpster fire falls to the 11 seed

The most overrated school in the country 2nd seeded Auburn meekly goes out to a 10 seed

3rd seed Tennessee who looked like a legit national contender goes down to an 11 seed who was 17-14 and barely got in the tourney

6 seed Alabama gets taken out by the 11 seed playing a 2 game in 3 days.

2 seed Kentucky losses to 15th seeded St Peters

left standing is 4th seeded Arkansas who survived tough challenges from Vermont and New Mexico State and is now matched up with Gonzaga.

We shall see if Gonzaga is over-rated?

Thought about posting this same thread. B1G is not looking great, but in comparison, the SEC is a far worse performance.

So far, it’s really just Iowa & Wisconsin that haven’t pulled their weight. Illinois as a 4 seed lost to 5 seed Houston, but UH was favored and had much better metrics. 7 MSU lost to 2 Duke. 7 OSU lost to 2 Nova. 11 RU lost a 2OT game to 11 ND. 11 Michigan overachieving getting into Sweet 16. We’ll see about Purdue.

Iowa/Wisconsin underperforming is no where near the same level as Kentucky, Auburn, Tennessee, LSU underperforming.

IDK about the B1G. Some of it was seeding. B1G had 9 teams in a field of 64, and divide by 4 and we are down to 2. Seems about right?

Nobody likes this answer but it really is a crap shoot

Agreed. Seeding in some instances played into it and bad matchups. Some teams are peaking, and some had peaked--see St Peter's and Iowas as the former and the latter.

We all laughed at the ACC but they looked like the ACC of old once the tourney started

They will be thumping their chests for sure. Makes me ill to see Dook and UNC still in it, but they are, and begrudging kudos to them.

 

[bac2therac]

See I agree with putting Houston where they did for the most part, but I don't understand Providence's seeding. I mean, I understand it, but I don't agree with it and I don't think it's consistent with, for example, Wisconsin's.

Providence won the Big East but dinged for metrics. Still had more quality wins than Houston. Wisconsin had many q1 and 2 wins and did tie for regular season big 10. Arguably Ill could be a 3 and Wisky a 4. I cant argue Houston as 3 at all. Where else do you put Houston. How can you put them over the Big East regular season champ

 

[fluoxetine]

Providence won the Big East but dinged for metrics. Still had more quality wins than Houston. Wisconsin had many q1 and 2 wins and did tie for regular season big 10. Arguably Ill could be a 3 and Wisky a 4. I cant argue Houston as 3 at all. Where else do you put Houston. How can you put them over the Big East regular season champ

If you can ding a team for metrics then you could elevate one too. That would be the argument for putting Houston higher. My personal preference would be to not do that but also to not ding a team like Providence. But my point is that Wisconsin is similar to Providence. Both have extremely good W/L results and really bad metrics compared to other teams with comparable resumes. Why ding Providence and not Wisconsin?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I had a concern that to the eye the B1G didn’t look like the 2nd best conference and could it impact Rutgers.

Not sure how much of it is structure vs. this group of teams being so big man led and weaker guards.

This is the 2nd straight year the B1G has underperformed. We can sugarcoat it all we want.

 

[fluoxetine]

I had a concern that to the eye the B1G didn’t look like the 2nd best conference and could it impact Rutgers.

Not sure how much of it is structure vs. this group of teams being so big man led and weaker guards.

This is the 2nd straight year the B1G has underperformed. We can sugarcoat it all we want.

It hasn't significantly underperformed this year. Everyone already knew this year's B1G was filled with a lot of good or very good teams but no truly elite ones.

Again, Bart projected 2.6 B1G teams to the S16 pre-tournament and we have 2. At worst it's "slight disappointment" not "significant underperformance".

 

[Knight Shift]

It hasn't significantly underperformed this year. Everyone already knew this year's B1G was filled with a lot of good or very good teams but no truly elite ones.

Again, Bart projected 2.6 B1G teams to the S16 pre-tournament and we have 2. At worst it's "slight disappointment" not "significant underperformance".

People love to overstate these things, and some particularly love to put down our own conference. I don't get it.

 

[ScarletDave]

The most any conf has left is 3, the Big 12. The Big Ten has 2, the SEC has 1. Pretty balanced

 

[bac2therac]

If you can ding a team for metrics then you could elevate one too. That would be the argument for putting Houston higher. My personal preference would be to not do that but also to not ding a team like Providence. But my point is that Wisconsin is similar to Providence. Both have extremely good W/L results and really bad metrics compared to other teams with comparable resumes. Why ding Providence and not Wisconsin?

Wisconsin had better metrics and better wins than Providence. Where would you put Houston..i cannot see them higher than 5...are you putting them aghead of Big 10 and Big East champs who have better wins. Houston only beat Memphis as wins against the field. Houston was 1-4 and they lost to Wisconsin. Their actual resume was hot garbage. You would have to bump Arkansas or UCLA to a 5 seed.

 

[bac2therac]

I had a concern that to the eye the B1G didn’t look like the 2nd best conference and could it impact Rutgers.

Not sure how much of it is structure vs. this group of teams being so big man led and weaker guards.

This is the 2nd straight year the B1G has underperformed. We can sugarcoat it all we want.

how many schools did you expect to get in...by seed we should have 3 in it, we have two. Is it all that bad? By seed we should not have any school advancing to the elite 8.

 

[fluoxetine]

Wisconsin had better metrics and better wins than Providence. Where would you put Houston..i cannot see them higher than 5...are you putting them aghead of Big 10 and Big East champs who have better wins. Houston only beat Memphis as wins against the field. Houston was 1-4 and they lost to Wisconsin. Their actual resume was hot garbage. You would have to bump Arkansas or UCLA to a 5 seed.

Personally I wouldn’t move Houston. I would give Providence a 2 seed and ignore the metrics.

 

[bac2therac]

but then I would argue...Nova beat PC 2x and had a way better wins and won the conference tourney while PC went out early. Nova proved on their court they were the best team in the league. PC didnt make up three games this year which means at 14-3 they got the title over 16-4 Nova...at SHU, at Creighton, UCONN, they would have to have won them all to maintain regular season champs.

If PC is a 2, then the Big 10 champ should also be a 2

 

[fluoxetine]

but then I would argue...Nova beat PC 2x and had a way better wins and won the conference tourney while PC went out early. Nova proved on their court they were the best team in the league. PC didnt make up three games this year which means at 14-3 they got the title over 16-4 Nova...at SHU, at Creighton, UCONN, they would have to have won them all to maintain regular season champs.

I would've given Nova a 2 as well.

If PC is a 2, then the Big 10 champ should also be a 2

I don't agree with this logic. The Big Ten is a more bunched up league than the Big East. I don't think there's anything wrong with having Providence and Nova as 2s and Purdue/Wisky as 3s.

 

[bac2therac]

If you are making Providence and Nova 2s, then who are you pulling out> Duke? kentucky? people were complaining Tennessee was not a 2....hindsight thinking. Providence as a 2 is outrageous

 

[fluoxetine]

If you are making Providence and Nova 2s, then who are you pulling out> Duke? kentucky? people were complaining Tennessee was not a 2....hindsight thinking. Providence as a 2 is outrageous

Yes to both. I would've given Tennessee the 2 as well.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

how many schools did you expect to get in...by seed we should have 3 in it, we have two. Is it all that bad? By seed we should not have any school advancing to the elite 8.

9

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Not this

https://barttorvik.com/trank.php?ye...vquad=0&quad=5&venue=All&type=All&mingames=0#

Bart has us 7th best conference in post season

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

SIAP: Chucky Hepburn's game-ending injury in 1st half (only played 14 mins) killed Wisky vs. Iowa St. Brad Davidson is a poor man's Geo Baker at PG. Of course it's conjecture but I think Wisky is in Sweet 16 too with a healthy Hepburn. Mich St and tOSU were both in their games down the stretch. I understand Houston's seeding metrics, but they certainly look like a 3 or better seed. We'll see.

Iowa was the real headscratcher flop for the B1G.

 

[Skull83]

The tournament is still in progress. Let's say Purdue makes the Final Four and Michigan reaches the Elite Eight, will we still be saying the B1G under-performed?

 

[fluoxetine]

Not this

https://barttorvik.com/trank.php?ye...vquad=0&quad=5&venue=All&type=All&mingames=0#

Bart has us 7th best conference in post season

Maybe you should have expected it?

Big Ten Team	Opponent	Bart Expected Wins	Actual Wins	Bart Expected Pt Diff	Actual Pt Diff
Illinois	Chattanooga	0.77​	1​	7.1​	1​
Illinois	Houston	0.27​	0​	-5.5​	-15​
Wisconsin	Colgate	0.81​	1​	8.9​	7​
Wisconsin	Iowa St.	0.53​	0​	0.7​	-5​
Purdue	Yale	0.91​	1​	14.4​	22​
Purdue	Texas	0.54​	1​	1​	10​
Iowa	Richmond	0.84​	0​	11.2​	-4​
Ohio St.	Loyola Chicago	0.51​	1​	0.2​	13​
Ohio St.	Villanova	0.33​	0​	-4.1​	-10​
Rutgers	Notre Dame	0.39​	0​	-2.4​	-2​
Michigan	Colorado St.	0.59​	1​	2.3​	12​
Michigan	Tennessee	0.28​	1​	-5.6​	8​
Michigan St.	Davidson	0.53​	1​	0.9​	1​
Michigan St.	Duke	0.25​	0​	-7.2​	-9​
Indiana	Wyoming	0.67​	1​	4.1​	-8​
Indiana	Saint Mary's	0.45​	0​	-1​	-29​
Total		8.67​	9​	25​	-8​

Big Ten has outperformed Bart expectations by 0.33 wins and has underperformed by 33 points (which is somewhere in the neighborhood of 0.5 standard deviations over 16 games)

 

[RU Husky]

The most any conf has left is 3, the Big 12. The Big Ten has 2, the SEC has 1. Pretty balanced

ACC also has 3. When there’s only 16 teams, those ratios are not that balanced.

Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois lost to lower seeded teams- not good.

 

[Skull83]

Maybe you should have expected it?

Big Ten Team	Opponent	Bart Expected Wins	Actual Wins	Bart Expected Pt Diff	Actual Pt Diff
Illinois	Chattanooga	0.77​	1​	7.1​	1​
Illinois	Houston	0.27​	0​	-5.5​	-15​
Wisconsin	Colgate	0.81​	1​	8.9​	7​
Wisconsin	Iowa St.	0.53​	0​	0.7​	-5​
Purdue	Yale	0.91​	1​	14.4​	22​
Purdue	Texas	0.54​	1​	1​	10​
Iowa	Richmond	0.84​	0​	11.2​	-4​
Ohio St.	Loyola Chicago	0.51​	1​	0.2​	13​
Ohio St.	Villanova	0.33​	0​	-4.1​	-10​
Rutgers	Notre Dame	0.39​	0​	-2.4​	-2​
Michigan	Colorado St.	0.59​	1​	2.3​	12​
Michigan	Tennessee	0.28​	1​	-5.6​	8​
Michigan St.	Davidson	0.53​	1​	0.9​	1​
Michigan St.	Duke	0.25​	0​	-7.2​	-9​
Indiana	Wyoming	0.67​	1​	4.1​	-8​
Indiana	Saint Mary's	0.45​	0​	-1​	-29​
Total		8.67​	9​	25​	-8​

Big Ten has outperformed Bart expectations by 0.33 wins and has underperformed by 33 points (which is somewhere in the neighborhood of 0.5 standard deviations over 16 games)

Thanks fluoxetine, maybe we should have Homer and Lisa weigh in

 

[bac2therac]

Not this

https://barttorvik.com/trank.php?ye...vquad=0&quad=5&venue=All&type=All&mingames=0#

Bart has us 7th best conference in post season

Lol..you

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Lol..you

You really hate computers and models. You will be thanking them when you are at the parade enjoying yourself. Wouldn't have been a champion without them.

Parade rescheduled for the day of B1G season Start in December 2022. Sammy Haggar and Pat Benetar have agreed in principal to perform along with a group or 2 not on your grid (post 1994).

 

[burtmanjack]

The tournament is still in progress. Let's say Purdue makes the Final Four and Michigan reaches the Elite Eight, will we still be saying the B1G under-performed?

No.

 

[Southern Gentleman]

Arkansas is certainly Battle tested. BUT, Notae is playing awful, we can’t buy a shot, defense is strong but rebounding and FG shooting percentage is horrible.

If we play like we have so far in this tournament, Gonzaga wins by 30.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

Won-Loss records for the P6 conferences.

Big 10 went 7-3 in the 1st Round/First Four and was 2-4 in the 2nd Round (Round of 32). Overall, the B1G has a W-L record of 9-7.
SEC went 3-3 in the 1st Round and 1-2 in the 2nd Round. Overall, SEC is 4-5.
Big East 3-3 and 2-1. Overall 5-4
----
The best performing conferences:

ACC 5-1 and 3-1. Overall 8-2.
Big XII 6-0 and 3-3. Overall 9-3.
Pac 12 2-1 and 2-0. Overall 4-1.

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

Won-Loss records for the P6 conferences.

Big 10 went 7 8-3 in the 1st Round/First Four and was 2-4 in the 2nd Round (Round of 32). Overall, the B1G has a W-L record of 9 10-7.
SEC went 3-3 in the 1st Round and 1-2 in the 2nd Round. Overall, SEC is 4-5.
Big East 3-3 and 2-1. Overall 5-4
----
The best performing conferences:

ACC 5-1 and 3-1. Overall 8-2.
Big XII 6-0 and 3-3. Overall 9-3.
Pac 12 2-1 and 2-0. Overall 4-1.

I am never conceding the ND game won by the refs. I won't assume R wins vs Ala, to be fair. For now.