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Semi-OT: Roster Construction

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GORU2014

All-Conference
Sep 4, 2013
2,639
4,669
113
With the Big Ten struggling again in the tournament, there’s been more talk about the causes. A major criticism is roster construction (big and slow players vs. speed and outside shooting).

I’m wondering 1) if this is actually a major factor, and 2) if it is, why aren’t more teams in the conference changing their approach?

For #1, we had 4 teams in the top 50 in 3 point % (2 in the top 10). We did have 1 in the top 50 for scoring offense, and none in the top 50 for fast break points, so maybe pace is an issue, but that seems like it would be more of a coaching matter.

For #2, if roster construction is the major driver, why wouldn't a coach in conference just build a roster that's contrary to the rest of the conference? It seems like it would be an easy recipe for success to build a speedy perimeter shooting team. I guess Iowa might be the closest, but their success has been limited, maybe due to Fran completely ignoring defense instead of just de-emphasizing it? Maybe the conference's reputation chases away those types of players?

Another disappointing showing in any event.
 
R

RUbacker

Heisman
Dec 5, 2014
15,508
21,440
108
GORU2014 said:
With the Big Ten struggling again in the tournament, there’s been more talk about the causes. A major criticism is roster construction (big and slow players vs. speed and outside shooting).

I’m wondering 1) if this is actually a major factor, and 2) if it is, why aren’t more teams in the conference changing their approach?

For #1, we had 4 teams in the top 50 in 3 point % (2 in the top 10). We did have 1 in the top 50 for scoring offense, and none in the top 50 for fast break points, so maybe pace is an issue, but that seems like it would be more of a coaching matter.

For #2, if roster construction is the major driver, why wouldn't a coach in conference just build a roster that's contrary to the rest of the conference? It seems like it would be an easy recipe for success to build a speedy perimeter shooting team. I guess Iowa might be the closest, but their success has been limited, maybe due to Fran completely ignoring defense instead of just de-emphasizing it? Maybe the conference's reputation chases away those types of players?

Another disappointing showing in any event.
Click to expand...
I watch some of these players and teams with amazement. They are fast and very athletic . They create unbelievable scoring opportunities. You don’t see much of that in the BIG and is probably the reason the BIG does not do well in a tourney against these teams. I have to say that I am enjoying some of these high flying teams /players.
 
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Mr Magoo_rivals90743

Heisman
Nov 15, 2001
15,044
15,615
0
GORU2014 said:
With the Big Ten struggling again in the tournament, there’s been more talk about the causes. A major criticism is roster construction (big and slow players vs. speed and outside shooting).

I’m wondering 1) if this is actually a major factor, and 2) if it is, why aren’t more teams in the conference changing their approach?

For #1, we had 4 teams in the top 50 in 3 point % (2 in the top 10). We did have 1 in the top 50 for scoring offense, and none in the top 50 for fast break points, so maybe pace is an issue, but that seems like it would be more of a coaching matter.

For #2, if roster construction is the major driver, why wouldn't a coach in conference just build a roster that's contrary to the rest of the conference? It seems like it would be an easy recipe for success to build a speedy perimeter shooting team. I guess Iowa might be the closest, but their success has been limited, maybe due to Fran completely ignoring defense instead of just de-emphasizing it? Maybe the conference's reputation chases away those types of players?

Another disappointing showing in any event.
Click to expand...
I think Hoiberg at Nebraska is attempting to do it too but he’s not really been consistently getting the level of talent that’s necessary.

It’s strange but even when the league gets coaches who are considered to be top level like Miller at Indiana and Hohlman at Ohio State, the league seems to have this way of swallowing them up and making them conform to the B1G’s plodding style.
 
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RUskoolie

RUskoolie

Hall of Famer
Aug 1, 2007
220,732
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The B1G lacks athletes and it's why we struggled in OOC play against decent teams. They had athletic guards that killed ours. It's why the committee harped on our OOC. We beat up sisters of the poor, went .500 in an unathletic B1G and then went 1-3 vs teams with athletes.

We need more Simpson type players who can run and open up the floor.
 
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S

Scarlet Shack

Heisman
Feb 3, 2004
26,089
15,568
73
This is a legit issue

And I like that pike is addressing it

Simpson …here
Warren …here in 2024
Harper ….hopefully here in 2014

Changes our athleticsm and speed at the guard ..all guys who can get to the rim on their own …while still having lots and lots of length in the front court

As the sun sets on the first generation of pike kids that got us to the ncaa 2 out 4 (and should have been 4 of 4)….I think he knows this and is attempting to address this in future roster construction
 
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N

NickRU714

Heisman
Aug 18, 2009
13,604
12,367
0
Many of us have been saying this for decades on the football side.
Unfortunately we missed the opportunity to get ahead of the curve. Now even the elite schools prioritize uptempo and high scoring and we fall further behind.

I'd be interested in seeing 3pt attempts per game. Not just 3pt shooting %.
It's one thing to shoot it well. Need to also shoot them alot.
 
A

Antnee79

Senior
Nov 7, 2017
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RUskoolie said:
The B1G lacks athletes and it's why we struggled in OOC play against decent teams. They had athletic guards that killed ours. It's why the committee harped on our OOC. We beat up sisters of the poor, went .500 in an unathletic B1G and then went 1-3 vs teams with athletes.

We need more Simpson type players who can run and open up the floor.
Click to expand...
And guys that can bury the three.
 
P

Perricone7

All-Conference
Jan 26, 2015
1,472
2,064
113
Is the B10 struggling? Obviously Purdue lost its mind, but seems like everyone else is doing as expected. Nice wins from penn state, northwestern and Michigan state.
 
S

ScarletR30

Senior
Aug 19, 2008
474
812
0
NickRU714 said:
Many of us have been saying this for decades on the football side.
Unfortunately we missed the opportunity to get ahead of the curve. Now even the elite schools prioritize uptempo and high scoring and we fall further behind.

I'd be interested in seeing 3pt attempts per game. Not just 3pt shooting %.
It's one thing to shoot it well. Need to also shoot them alot.
Click to expand...
Of the 8 game yesterday, half were won by teams that are defensive focused. Houston, SDSU, Arkansas, and Tennessee prioritize D over O.

So this line of thinking has little merit. The big ten struggles because of the way parity and the style of play the refs allow
 
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R

RUsojo

Heisman
Dec 17, 2010
28,296
26,893
113
GORU2014 said:
With the Big Ten struggling again in the tournament, there’s been more talk about the causes. A major criticism is roster construction (big and slow players vs. speed and outside shooting).

I’m wondering 1) if this is actually a major factor, and 2) if it is, why aren’t more teams in the conference changing their approach?

For #1, we had 4 teams in the top 50 in 3 point % (2 in the top 10). We did have 1 in the top 50 for scoring offense, and none in the top 50 for fast break points, so maybe pace is an issue, but that seems like it would be more of a coaching matter.

For #2, if roster construction is the major driver, why wouldn't a coach in conference just build a roster that's contrary to the rest of the conference? It seems like it would be an easy recipe for success to build a speedy perimeter shooting team. I guess Iowa might be the closest, but their success has been limited, maybe due to Fran completely ignoring defense instead of just de-emphasizing it? Maybe the conference's reputation chases away those types of players?

Another disappointing showing in any event.
Click to expand...
Definitely upgrading the back court and wing position in recent moves I like what pike is doing there.
 
R

RU677381

Senior
Apr 21, 2010
376
618
0
I don’t know the players in the teams that remain, but my theory has always been that teams with outstanding guard play are the ones with the best chance in the tournament. That is based on UCONN’s run several years ago when they came out of nowhere to win it all. Does the theory hold true this year?
 
G

Goku

All-Conference
Jul 25, 2001
8,530
1,469
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The 2020 and 2021 team had that with tez and especially Jacob young. I really believe the 2020 team could have been a sweet 16 team and the 2021 team gave away a chance to be a final 4 team. Last years team and this years team didn’t have that same profile. I am sure pike is trying to recreate it though
 
S

scarletrat

All-Conference
Aug 28, 2003
10,990
1,048
0
the athleticism the SEC and even Big 12 teams have been eye opening and impressive…
very evident in the 8/9 games that had B1G-SEC teams
the 3 point shooting and crashing boards….
we need very good 3-point shooters in the worst way….who can shoot under duress….
 
R

RUbacker

Heisman
Dec 5, 2014
15,508
21,440
108
RUsojo said:
What are you talking about get this out of here
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Didn’t you read the other posts ? I did not know what he was referring to until other posters pointed it out. Shameful and he should take it to the CE board.
 
G

GORU2014

All-Conference
Sep 4, 2013
2,639
4,669
113
RUskoolie said:
The B1G lacks athletes and it's why we struggled in OOC play against decent teams. They had athletic guards that killed ours. It's why the committee harped on our OOC. We beat up sisters of the poor, went .500 in an unathletic B1G and then went 1-3 vs teams with athletes.

We need more Simpson type players who can run and open up the floor.
Click to expand...
That’s what I’m struggling with though. If it is just roster construction, the blueprint is out there. There are (what I think are) good coaches in the Big Ten. Why isn’t the blueprint being recreated by them?
 
G

GORU2014

All-Conference
Sep 4, 2013
2,639
4,669
113
NickRU714 said:
Many of us have been saying this for decades on the football side.
Unfortunately we missed the opportunity to get ahead of the curve. Now even the elite schools prioritize uptempo and high scoring and we fall further behind.

I'd be interested in seeing 3pt attempts per game. Not just 3pt shooting %.
It's one thing to shoot it well. Need to also shoot them alot.
Click to expand...
1 in the top 50 and 2 in the top 100. It’s not a huge spread between number ~20 and 100, but good point.
 
G

GORU2014

All-Conference
Sep 4, 2013
2,639
4,669
113
urbanecane said:
Is the B10 struggling? Obviously Purdue lost its mind, but seems like everyone else is doing as expected. Nice wins from penn state, northwestern and Michigan state.
Click to expand...
We’re down to 2 teams, with a realistic chance of having no Sweet 16 teams. Maybe not unexpected given the seeding but still disappointing IMO especially with the issues in prior years
 
B

bigbirdru

Junior
Mar 6, 2010
2,256
332
83
Izzo has probably had the most success from the Big10, and our style matches him most closely. That is encouraging.

Teams like Purdue and iowa run super efficient offense but always seem to flame out in tourney.

Couple years back was most surprising- with Illinois, Michigan and Ohio st all very strong, and athletic.
 
Y

YoucancallmeRay

All-Conference
Nov 3, 2015
1,774
1,873
0
I think defense is the reason, along with athleticism. Having a couple of reliable shooters is also needed. Illinois is an athletic team, but spotty defensively and they don't have reliable shooters. This year, Alabama, Houston, Tennessee, and UCLA are the top four in defensive efficiency (RU is fifth). Illinois is the next B10 at #31.
 
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needmorecowbell

All-American
Oct 28, 2007
9,133
9,999
78
It really just comes down to 2 factors in my opinion.

1) Talent - as of 2019 the Big Ten had the 5th most NBA players per school compared to all conferences. The top 4 conferences had significantly more NBA talent.

NBA players per school
Pac 12 - 5.6
ACC - 5.5
SEC - 5.1
Big 12 - 4.4
Big Ten - 3.0
Big East - 2.6

2) Luck - the Big Ten has just been unlucky. There have been plenty of good teams but you need some luck to win it all.

Talent is clearly the biggest issue. I think NIL and conference $$ can help boost the Big Ten over the next 3-5 years.
 
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