Has really settled in at SS. I thought that would be a spot that was revolving until SEC play, but he's played too well to keep off the field. Good sign for a program IMO.
Seth Heck
- Thread starter 57stratdawg
- Start date
Not to compare the two, but
Seth has made some Frazier-esque plays out there so far this year. Fundamentally sound
Seth has made some Frazier-esque plays out there so far this year. Fundamentally sound
He may be better. I'm seeing some really good range into the hole in the limited times I've seen him.
He does have good range out there, but I don't want to go sticking "the next Frazier" label on him this early. Frazier played 173 games for us, Heck will have played 23 after today
Frazier was a great college hitter, and a good defensive short stop. He wasn't a great defensive short stop in my opinion. Heck has shown some flashes in his opportunities so far.
I agree on both points. Frazier is the best hitter in MSU history IMO. Defensively he was very sound, and he was able to make big plays when needed. I don't think Seth will match Frazier's hitting, but he very well could turn out to be a better defensive player. Only time will tell
It's bad to judge a career on one season...
Granted, it was a hell of a season. And Palmeiro was a hell of a baseball player. And in a different era of college baseball. Frazier never played college ball with those bats but still tallied 224 career hits and a career OBP close to .400. Two guys in different eras, so to settle it, Palmeiro is MSU's best hitter of his era, while Frazier is the best hitter of the "neutral bat" era.
Granted, it was a hell of a season. And Palmeiro was a hell of a baseball player. And in a different era of college baseball. Frazier never played college ball with those bats but still tallied 224 career hits and a career OBP close to .400. Two guys in different eras, so to settle it, Palmeiro is MSU's best hitter of his era, while Frazier is the best hitter of the "neutral bat" era.
You have some fans on here that have never seen MSU baseball before Mitch Moreland and Ed Easley.
I agree it is hard to compare because of the bats. Just hard for me to put Frazier ahead of guys like Clark and Palmeiro. Outside of those 2 and just off the top of my head, I'd probably put Brooks Bryan, Travis Chapman, Jefferey Rea and Raffo ahead of Frazier. But like you said different eras.
"He is the only SEC player to have ever won the triple crown." He couldn't do it with these new bats.**
Frazier is one of my favorite players. Probably the best shortstop we've ever had. But as a hitter, you can't even begin to put him in the same class as Palmeiro and Clark. Both of those guys played in multiple MLB all-star games. Palmeiro won the triple crown and was at least a borderline hall of fame player if not for the steroid scandal.
I think a hall of fame lock before roids. He's one of 4 players with 3000 hits and 500 home runs. With or without steroids, Palmeiro is one of the best hitters to ever play baseball.
Can't believe somebody says Frazier is the best in MSU history.
You can separate the wood bat and aluminum bat era, mid 70s .
1 Palmeiro
2 Clark
3 Gillespie
4 Raffo
5 Van Cleve
6 Castoria
7 Showalter
8 Masters
9 Hurst
10 Frazier
You can separate the wood bat and aluminum bat era, mid 70s .
1 Palmeiro
2 Clark
3 Gillespie
4 Raffo
5 Van Cleve
6 Castoria
7 Showalter
8 Masters
9 Hurst
10 Frazier
Let's look at career numbers. Palmeiro's 29 is tied for the most home runs in a season and his 67 in three years is Mississippi State's all time career leader. His 94 RBI in a single season is 2nd in that category and he is 2nd all time in RBI to Richard Lee, who played an additional year. He is also in the top ten at MSU in both career hits at 268 and career batting average at .372. Frazier is not in the top ten in either (Palmeiro put up big numbers from the day he walked onto campus).
Frazier is possibly top ten, but not top three. Those would be Palmeiro, Will Clark, and Mike Kelly. But if you look at some of the single season and career numbers Palmeiro put up, he has to be #1.
Frazier is possibly top ten, but not top three. Those would be Palmeiro, Will Clark, and Mike Kelly. But if you look at some of the single season and career numbers Palmeiro put up, he has to be #1.
Palmeiro was a lock HOF player if not for the steroid scandal. No player with 3000 hits and 500 home runs had ever been left out.
To clarify
1. I reevaluated my statement to say Frazier was the best of his era, and Palmeiro was the best of his.
2. We'll never really know for sure what Frazier would have done in a different era of college baseball, and the same goes for Palmeiro.
Regardless, State has had some pretty great hitters over the years and it is MY opinion that Frazier certainly belongs in the discussion for top 5 consideration. You may disagree, but that's your opinion.
1. I reevaluated my statement to say Frazier was the best of his era, and Palmeiro was the best of his.
2. We'll never really know for sure what Frazier would have done in a different era of college baseball, and the same goes for Palmeiro.
Regardless, State has had some pretty great hitters over the years and it is MY opinion that Frazier certainly belongs in the discussion for top 5 consideration. You may disagree, but that's your opinion.
Palmeiro hit over 300 HRs in MLB. I think it's a pretty safe bet he'd be an All-American and hit at least 50 HRs in 3 years even in todays dead ball era. Frazier would be an outstanding shortstop in any era as well. But he wouldn't be the hitter a Palmeiro or Clark were, primarily because of the power difference.
Yes we do.
Palmeiro was the best of his era in ALL of college baseball. Frazier was not. Not really that hard.
Palmeiro was the best of his era in ALL of college baseball. Frazier was not. Not really that hard.
American Dawg, nothing personal Partner, but to think Frazier was anywhere close to palmeiro is so absurd, you ought to go into hiding. I watched palmeiro and Clark for three years and saw Frazier in his career. No comparison. Don't know how old you are but to say something that ignorant I'm just shaking my head.
Not going into hiding, but
thanks for the feedback. After going over the numbers and watching what I could find, I still stand behind my opinion that Frazier is one of the top 5 hitters in MSU history. I do concede that Palmeiro takes the top spot, and I will again admit that my original statement was a bit of a reach. Perhaps I'm biased since Frazier and I both come from GA. Whatever the case, I enjoyed the rebuttals and responses.
thanks for the feedback. After going over the numbers and watching what I could find, I still stand behind my opinion that Frazier is one of the top 5 hitters in MSU history. I do concede that Palmeiro takes the top spot, and I will again admit that my original statement was a bit of a reach. Perhaps I'm biased since Frazier and I both come from GA. Whatever the case, I enjoyed the rebuttals and responses.
Yep, Chapman was quite a hitter and Jeffrey Rea (no kin to Wes that I know of) is actually our all time hits leader.
I'm not getting into the debate on who was better, but doesn't Frazier own the all time hits record, or was that for a season?
He doesn't have to be a home run hitter or MLB all star or anything. Again, not saying Palmeiro wasn't better- he more than likely was. Frazier was very good at getting hits.
He doesn't have to be a home run hitter or MLB all star or anything. Again, not saying Palmeiro wasn't better- he more than likely was. Frazier was very good at getting hits.
Frazier holds the MSU hits record in a single season.
Thank you for bringing up the home run hitter & MLB star points. On home run hitting ability: a player's hit tool and his hit for power tool are two very different things. Just because a guy lacks power doesn't mean he's not a great hitter. That's like saying Mickey Mantle was a better hitter than Tony Gwynn (clue: he wasn't) solely because Mantle had a far better (arguably the best) power tool. Gwynn arguably had the best hit tool in baseball history. On being an MLB star: you simply can't base a player's COLLEGE legacy on what he did in the pros
Agreed, that's why I added that.
Ted Williams to me was the best, but Tony Gwynn was excellent. Different eras, have to factor in military service, etc. Debate for a different day. I have always liked the All-Star game I think where Gwynn and Williams were commentating, and Williams asked Tony a pretty simple question on hitting and Tony was scared to death answering it. They both respected each other a lot.
Ted Williams to me was the best, but Tony Gwynn was excellent. Different eras, have to factor in military service, etc. Debate for a different day. I have always liked the All-Star game I think where Gwynn and Williams were commentating, and Williams asked Tony a pretty simple question on hitting and Tony was scared to death answering it. They both respected each other a lot.