Shannon Dawson has to go

[Bluu]

These offensive stats are pathetic. Air raid my a$$. Dawson continually put us is 3rd and long situations I would think we lead the conference is 3 and outs. Towles went from an NFL prospect to transfer. Barker will as well. Take a look.

• 79th in completions per game, hauling in 17.2 passes per game.
• 80th in QB sacks per game; the QB was tackled 2.4 times a game.
• 87th in yards per completion at 11.6.
• 89th in passing yards per game with 198, only 151.7 through their last three games
• 89th in incompletions per game with 15.1 passes failing to connect per game.
• 97th in completion percentage. UK QB’s completed 53.24% of their passes, only 44.9% in their last three games (Vandy, Charlotte, UofL).
• 111th at interceptions thrown per game, 1.3 an outing.
• 113th in team passer rating at 103.5.

Drew Barker, completed only 47% of his passes for 317 yards and 1 touchdown during the final three games of the season.

 

[Levibooty]

He may have been a bad hire but three OC's in three years isn't a recipe for success either.

 

[louisvillesux]

in my opinion, its worse than the numbers indicate. we have talent on that side of the ball, quite a bit of it. but here is the dilemma, who are we gonna get???? this very well may be stoops last year, what good OC is going to sign on to what is possibly a sinking ship?

 

[Mr Schwump]

Gets another year.

 

[Kats23]

Dawson won't be fired. UK knew he hadn't called plays. This was his first year and everyone knew that. Mistakes were going to happen. If UK were to fire him, who are they going to get. No one and I mean no one any good is going to want to take that gig when your last cooridinator had that short of a leash. The head coach's seat is getting warm and this is going to keep offensive coordinators away. There's a real chance this could be Stoops last year.

Lastly, do you and anyone else calling for Dawson's head remember last season after Brown left? Were there any real candidates that wanted the job? No one was knocking on the door and that's why we wound up with Dawson.

 

[Real Deal 2]

Dawson won't be fired. UK knew he hadn't called plays. This was his first year and everyone knew that. Mistakes were going to happen. If UK were to fire him, who are they going to get. No one and I mean no one any good is going to want to take that gig when your last cooridinator had that short of a leash. The head coach's seat is getting warm and this is going to keep offensive coordinators away. There's a real chance this could be Stoops last year.

Lastly, do you and anyone else calling for Dawson's head remember last season after Brown left? Were there any real candidates that wanted the job? No one was knocking on the door and that's why we wound up with Dawson.

You have no clue either. I mean a chance for a guy to call plays at an SEC school, yeah I am sure no one wants that job, 500,000 a year. To make that comment is ridiculous. No one knows. Most things filtering out was that Mark slow played Lincoln Riley and wanted to interview Dawson, rumor is Mark told him he was going to interview some other guys and Mike Leach told Bob Stoops that Lincoln was a star on the rise. Bob was looking to get more potent on offense.

Again I am not sure that is true just like you don't know whether UK had any other guys knocking the door down. I heard there were 3-4 guys that were vetted and Mark focused on Shannon and slow played Lincoln, left time for Oklahoma to get involved. They also got the QB commit from NC with this hire as well.
IMO

 

[Saguaro Cat]

Lastly, do you and anyone else calling for Dawson's head remember last season after Brown left? Were there any real candidates that wanted the job? No one was knocking on the door and that's why we wound up with Dawson.

We chose Dawson over Lincoln Riley.

And there's better offensive coordinators everywhere because none could be worse. He was so clueless. He had no idea how to gain one yard. He never used cj Conrad, and yet somehow the TE didn't help defend the rush. No imagination. No trick plays. No misdirection. No consistency. No game plan.

We averaged 25 points a game. And that was with two pick sixes and a bunch of short field from turnover. Our offense was pretty much hope boom makes a sixty yard run. We scored over thirty points 3 times. Last year it was seven.

At his best, his very best, Dawson still is going to give us less than a mediocre offense. What are we risking going to another coordinator.

 

[Real Deal 2]

The other thing working against Mark is if Patrick Towles blows up somewhere and looks like a great player. That could be a death nail.

I don't care if they change OC's every 3 years, it is not that big a deal when the offense is pretty much the same thing.
Bill Currry ran a Tommy Bowden offense that was a very good offense the last half of his tenure, they ran a Bill McCartney Colorado offense with Antonio O Ferral and then an Elliot Uzelak offense. I would say that is pretty drastic.

These offenses he is trying to run with are about the same, Brown and Dawson all form same tree.
Bottom line is you have to get it right, regardless if you do it every year, have to do it until you get it right.

 

[shutzhund]

These offensive stats are pathetic. Air raid my a$$. Dawson continually put us is 3rd and long situations I would think we lead the conference is 3 and outs. Towles went from an NFL prospect to transfer. Barker will as well. Take a look.

• 79th in completions per game, hauling in 17.2 passes per game.
• 80th in QB sacks per game; the QB was tackled 2.4 times a game.
• 87th in yards per completion at 11.6.
• 89th in passing yards per game with 198, only 151.7 through their last three games
• 89th in incompletions per game with 15.1 passes failing to connect per game.
• 97th in completion percentage. UK QB’s completed 53.24% of their passes, only 44.9% in their last three games (Vandy, Charlotte, UofL).
• 111th at interceptions thrown per game, 1.3 an outing.
• 113th in team passer rating at 103.5.

Drew Barker, completed only 47% of his passes for 317 yards and 1 touchdown during the final three games of the season.

What would you have done with the players he had to work with? Scatter arm qb, gun shy receivers, and arguably the worst offensive line in the SEC or Sun Belt.

The oft repeated "open the play book" when they can't execute the routine plays. Try a "trick play" that's also a popular refrain. Just what would you do? This should be good.

 

[laxcat#5]

What would you have done with the players he had to work with? Scatter arm qb, gun shy receivers, and arguably the worst offensive line in the SEC or Sun Belt.

The oft repeated "open the play book" when they can't execute the routine plays. Try a "trick play" that's also a popular refrain. Just what would you do? This should be good.

He spent the entire offseason talking about how much more talent he had to work with here than at WVU.

 

[kb22stang]

Putrid offensive line means putrid offense.

 

[tntuk]

We chose Dawson over Lincoln Riley.

And there's better offensive coordinators everywhere because none could be worse. He was so clueless. He had no idea how to gain one yard. He never used cj Conrad, and yet somehow the TE didn't help defend the rush. No imagination. No trick plays. No misdirection. No consistency. No game plan.

We averaged 25 points a game. And that was with two pick sixes and a bunch of short field from turnover. Our offense was pretty much hope boom makes a sixty yard run. We scored over thirty points 3 times. Last year it was seven.

At his best, his very best, Dawson still is going to give us less than a mediocre offense. What are we risking going to another coordinator.

No...Lincoln Riley chose OU over UK.

How do we know that Stoops isn't pulling some strings with the play calling on offense?

If you watched the first half of ULL, we saw an offense that threw the ball, downfield, a lot. The reigns were pulled back in and our offense never looked the same.....(except maybe the first half of the South Carolina game). Why is that? Why did our offense look like it was clicking, and then we would go conservative? Dawson's fault? Or Stoops micromanaging?

Dawson once threw the ball over 70 times in a game when he was OC at a small college. My guess is he'd love to throw a lot more than we are (forget what he says in public about being balanced).

 

[*Bleedingblue*]

He may have been a bad hire but three OC's in three years isn't a recipe for success either.

The one we have now is a recipe for disaster. Doesn't matter if it's another coordinator if you hire a good coach it changes the whole complexion of the team. Example Lincoln Riley at Oklahoma their O looks tremendous now in just 1 year.

 

[*Bleedingblue*]

in my opinion, its worse than the numbers indicate. we have talent on that side of the ball, quite a bit of it. but here is the dilemma, who are we gonna get???? this very well may be stoops last year, what good OC is going to sign on to what is possibly a sinking ship?

I think if Stoops went out and hired 2 top notch coordinators ...the kind you pay 1.5 million each. Let those coordinators hire who they want for the staff I'm willing to support Stoops another 3 years.

 

[Saguaro Cat]

He spent the entire offseason talking about how much more talent he had to work with here than at WVU.

And didn't have any less talent than Brown worked with last year.

 

[*Bleedingblue*]

What would you have done with the players he had to work with? Scatter arm qb, gun shy receivers, and arguably the worst offensive line in the SEC or Sun Belt.

The oft repeated "open the play book" when they can't execute the routine plays. Try a "trick play" that's also a popular refrain. Just what would you do? This should be good.

What I would have done is fired most of my staff and replaced with experienced coaches. This team would look vastly different. When you have JV coaches your gonna have a JV team.

Like I stated in my other posts WKU staff is superb and look how they are turning low talent players into a team that is formidable. That is coaching.

 

[Saguaro Cat]

No...Lincoln Riley chose OU over UK.

Shannon Dawson was hired at Kentucky December 17, 2014

http://espn.go.com/college-football...dawson-west-virginia-mountaineers-run-offense

Oklahoma fired their offensive coordinator January 6, 2015.

http://www.si.com/college-football/2015/01/06/josh-heupel-oklahoma-sooners-co-offensive-coordinator

It's not even up for debate.

 

[rick64]

I would like to ask Dawson what UKs offensive identity is just to see how'd he respond.

 

[tntuk]

Shannon Dawson was hired at Kentucky December 17, 2014

http://espn.go.com/college-football...dawson-west-virginia-mountaineers-run-offense

Oklahoma fired their offensive coordinator January 6, 2015.

http://www.si.com/college-football/2015/01/06/josh-heupel-oklahoma-sooners-co-offensive-coordinator

It's not even up for debate.

Lincoln Riley did not want to come to UK - period. End of story. Dawson was next on the list.

 

[RealCat41]

He would tell y

I would like to ask Dawson what UKs offensive identity is just to see how'd he respond.

He would tell you to ask Stoops.

 

[Levibooty]

I've have been under the impression Stoops wanted Riley but could not get a commitment from him so Stoops moved on.

 

[Kats23]

You can continue this facade but UK chose a OC who they knew never called plays. That tells me there wasn't a lot of choices. It also tells me Lincoln Riley didn't want the job. Rumors are rumors but he chose not to be here.

Coaches like consistenty. They do not want to go into an unstable situation with a head coach that fires their OC after one year or that one is on the hot seat. P5 jobs all pay well. Every single one of them. I'm not saying Dawson did a great job but be realistic, Dawson is not going to get fired. You trying to compare him to Brown is laughable. Brown is an experienced good OC and didn't have much better numbers than UK did this year. That ought to tell you about the "talent" we have. Honestly, I think all of this hand wringing over the staff will become moot bc I think Stoops is gone next year

 

[Bluu]

What would you have done with the players he had to work with? Scatter arm qb, gun shy receivers, and arguably the worst offensive line in the SEC or Sun Belt.

The oft repeated "open the play book" when they can't execute the routine plays. Try a "trick play" that's also a popular refrain. Just what would you do? This should be good.

I would make it easier for the QB to succeed early in the game and early in every series. Run high percentage and quick developing plays to start the game and on 1st downs. Simple drag routes, quick slants, leaking the RB out of the back field into the flat, utilize the TE short over the middle, we rarely see any of these, although I watch these plays all day long yesterday with championship teams. This would result in 2nd down and short and a manageable situation, while building the QBs confidence. Instead he routinely ran 30 yard outs (low %) on 1st downs which resulted in 2nd and 10, followed by a run up the middle for nothing, followed by a 3rd and long which failed because the defense knew we had to throw. Look at the stats again and keep up the argument. This was a bad hire and you don't stick with a bad hire in any industry. If it is bad today its bad tomorrow, so make a change and move forward to succeed. I see it everyday in business, BTW, when you have the ball, 1st down on the 1 yard line you don't set up in the showgun!

 

[redbudman]

I would make it easier for the QB to succeed early in the game and early in every series. Run high percentage and quick developing plays to start the game and on 1st downs. Simple drag routes, quick slants, leaking the RB out of the back field into the flat, utilize the TE short over the middle, we rarely see any of these, although I watch these plays all day long yesterday with championship teams. This would result in 2nd down and short and a manageable situation, while building the QBs confidence. Instead he routinely ran 30 yard outs (low %) on 1st downs which resulted in 2nd and 10, followed by a run up the middle for nothing, followed by a 3rd and long which failed because the defense knew we had to throw. Look at the stats again and keep up the argument. This was a bad hire and you don't stick with a bad hire in any industry. If it is bad today its bad tomorrow, so make a change and move forward to succeed. I see it everyday in business, BTW, when you have the ball, 1st down on the 1 yard line you don't set up in the showgun!

550"]No...Lincoln Riley chose OU over UK.

How do we know that Stoops isn't pulling some strings with the play calling on offense?

If you watched the first half of ULL, we saw an offense that threw the ball, downfield, a lot. The reigns were pulled back in and our offense never looked the same.....(except maybe the first half of the South Carolina game). Why is that? Why did our offense look like it was clicking, and then we would go conservative? Dawson's fault? Or Stoops micromanaging?

Dawson once threw the ball over 70 times in a game when he was OC at a small college. My guess is he'd love to throw a lot more than we are (forget what he says in public about being balanced).[/QUOTE]

 

[redbudman]

Blue you are the only one that noticed what I did! Stoops shadowed Dawson all year long after that first game! If you hire a coach to coach let him coach! Stoops is a mock manager and if he seriously does not change his Head Coacing career will be short. Case in point not hiring a Special teams coach tells you a lot about Stoops! I thought he was the answer, however he is in WAY over his head!!

 

[zcats]

Stoops had to rein in Dawson whose offensive planning is like a 9 year old in the back yard. You simply cannot sit back and chuck the ball 30 yards down field every other play. The completion rate is just too low. Dawson almost lost the ULL game by not working to get first downs and controlling the clock. The exact same tendency cost us the UL game but by then Dawson was in the run first down, throw a screen second down and throw long 3rd down, rinse and repeat mode. If UK wants to save Stoops and UKFB they will change OC's now and let that guy decide who he wants to be his position coaches. Otherwise I think you are looking at the same mess next year and then trying to change coordinators to milk down Stoops' contract for another year or two. If they spend the money now they can possibly turn around this mess.

 

[tntuk]

Stoops had to rein in Dawson whose offensive planning is like a 9 year old in the back yard. You simply cannot sit back and chuck the ball 30 yards down field every other play. The completion rate is just too low. Dawson almost lost the ULL game by not working to get first downs and controlling the clock. The exact same tendency cost us the UL game but by then Dawson was in the run first down, throw a screen second down and throw long 3rd down, rinse and repeat mode. If UK wants to save Stoops and UKFB they will change OC's now and let that guy decide who he wants to be his position coaches. Otherwise I think you are looking at the same mess next year and then trying to change coordinators to milk down Stoops' contract for another year or two. If they spend the money now they can possibly turn around this mess.

I think controlling the clock is what lost us the game against UL. We started going into clock control mode in the 2nd quarter. It came back to bite us. Same for the USC game - but we were lucky enough to come out with a win.

I agree you can't throw 30 yards downfield every other play....but you can throw the ball 1-10 yards downfield to players in space and let them go make a play. Quick strikes also disguise a weak OL.

If Stoops is going to hire an OC that he doesn't trust to call a game, then he shouldn't hire that OC in the first place.

 

[shutzhund]

I would make it easier for the QB to succeed early in the game and early in every series. Run high percentage and quick developing plays to start the game and on 1st downs. Simple drag routes, quick slants, leaking the RB out of the back field into the flat, utilize the TE short over the middle, we rarely see any of these, although I watch these plays all day long yesterday with championship teams. This would result in 2nd down and short and a manageable situation, while building the QBs confidence. Instead he routinely ran 30 yard outs (low %) on 1st downs which resulted in 2nd and 10, followed by a run up the middle for nothing, followed by a 3rd and long which failed because the defense knew we had to throw. Look at the stats again and keep up the argument. This was a bad hire and you don't stick with a bad hire in any industry. If it is bad today its bad tomorrow, so make a change and move forward to succeed. I see it everyday in business, BTW, when you have the ball, 1st down on the 1 yard line you don't set up in the showgun!

"With championship teams". A great idea with those type players. Players we don't have. The question was what would you do with our team. None of the things you mentioned applies to our players.

You can only blame coaches for so long before the answer smacks you in the face. Look at Curci's tenure and that should tell you something about the good and bad coaches story.

 

[fcats]

We should change our name in football to Training Wheels University. No one was beating down the doors for Stoops, Eliot or Dawson for their current positions. Unsure at this point what could transform them into being really good at their positions. Besides fundamental coaching problems and incredible disorganization, you really have to wonder how much tape they watch and study. It is still hard to comprehend the comments after the Louisville game.

 

[sluggercatfan]

These offensive stats are pathetic. Air raid my a$$. Dawson continually put us is 3rd and long situations I would think we lead the conference is 3 and outs. Towles went from an NFL prospect to transfer. Barker will as well. Take a look.

• 79th in completions per game, hauling in 17.2 passes per game.
• 80th in QB sacks per game; the QB was tackled 2.4 times a game.
• 87th in yards per completion at 11.6.
• 89th in passing yards per game with 198, only 151.7 through their last three games
• 89th in incompletions per game with 15.1 passes failing to connect per game.
• 97th in completion percentage. UK QB’s completed 53.24% of their passes, only 44.9% in their last three games (Vandy, Charlotte, UofL).
• 111th at interceptions thrown per game, 1.3 an outing.
• 113th in team passer rating at 103.5.

Drew Barker, completed only 47% of his passes for 317 yards and 1 touchdown during the final three games of the season.

Sorry for yelling , but THIS IS ON MARK STOOPS he dosen't want SD and NB are selling and I really don't think he knows what it is he wants

 

[Bluu]

"With championship teams". A great idea with those type players. Players we don't have. The question was what would you do with our team. None of the things you mentioned applies to our players.

You can only blame coaches for so long before the answer smacks you in the face. Look at Curci's tenure and that should tell you something about the good and bad coaches story.

Utilizing the TD? Leaking the RB into the flat, Quick slants? Fast developing plays that would help with our struggling OL, and easier to complete for our struggling receivers? Huh? Everything I mentioned applies to our current team. These are simple plays that every productive offensive utilizes regardless of personnel. So I assume you are suggesting to stay the course and throw long or run ? Brilliant

 

[EZBLUE1]

So he inherited an anemic offense from an OC many on this board hated, then installed his offense with a QB many on this board said was terrible, an o-line that was awful and receivers who had numerous drops.

Firing the OC makes perfect sense after 11 months.

 

[UK_Angus]

These offensive stats are pathetic. Air raid my a$$. Dawson continually put us is 3rd and long situations I would think we lead the conference is 3 and outs. Towles went from an NFL prospect to transfer. Barker will as well. Take a look.

• 79th in completions per game, hauling in 17.2 passes per game.
• 80th in QB sacks per game; the QB was tackled 2.4 times a game.
• 87th in yards per completion at 11.6.
• 89th in passing yards per game with 198, only 151.7 through their last three games
• 89th in incompletions per game with 15.1 passes failing to connect per game.
• 97th in completion percentage. UK QB’s completed 53.24% of their passes, only 44.9% in their last three games (Vandy, Charlotte, UofL).
• 111th at interceptions thrown per game, 1.3 an outing.
• 113th in team passer rating at 103.5.

Drew Barker, completed only 47% of his passes for 317 yards and 1 touchdown during the final three games of the season.

If you have had two so called air raid OCs and you have not seen the air raid offense yet then its probably not the OC's fault. Pretty good indication that the head coach is calling the shots...and that is the head coach's prerogative. But lets put the blame where it should go...the head coach.

 

[mattrudd]

Neil Brown comes in to run the air raid offense .Yet , we do not run an air raid offense .He was known for that very thing .Fast forward and we hire another OC that is known to run an air raid offense .Again ,he appears to run one in the first game but then suddenly changes his style completely .

It seems rather obvious that both coordinators hands were being tied .Head coach is micromanaging both coordinators .Also the fact that we haven't had a special teams coach suggests that he may be controlling more than we know .Without trust what do you have with any kind of relationship .

 

[UK_Angus]

If you have had two so called air raid OCs and you have not seen the air raid offense yet then its probably not the OC's fault. Pretty good indication that the head coach is calling the shots...and that is the head coach's prerogative. But lets put the blame where it should go...the head coach.

I don't care what they call it, I don't care if they run it or throw it as long as they can move the chains and score a touchdown occasionally.

 

[UK_Angus]

We should change our name in football to Training Wheels University. No one was beating down the doors for Stoops, Eliot or Dawson for their current positions. Unsure at this point what could transform them into being really good at their positions. Besides fundamental coaching problems and incredible disorganization, you really have to wonder how much tape they watch and study. It is still hard to comprehend the comments after the Louisville game.

This is not a conference where you can bring in untested coordinators as first time head coaches. If you do bring in a first time head coach then you should at least bring in some very experienced coordinators. Sure you may get lucky but mostly you are going to get what we got from joker and stoops. Both with good football minds but neither with the skill set to lead a program. Hopefully Barnhart will have that figured out by the next search. Its going to be interesting to see how Georgia's new coach does.

 

[Mike-D]

Matt Jones said we hired Dawson over Riley multiple times on the radio. Unless one of you know something Matt doesn't know, I think I'll go with his sources over yours.

 

[Soupbean]

Neil Brown comes in to run the air raid offense .Yet , we do not run an air raid offense .He was known for that very thing .Fast forward and we hire another OC that is known to run an air raid offense .Again ,he appears to run one in the first game but then suddenly changes his style completely .

It seems rather obvious that both coordinators hands were being tied .Head coach is micromanaging both coordinators .Also the fact that we haven't had a special teams coach suggests that he may be controlling more than we know .Without trust what do you have with any kind of relationship .

I'm of the same thought Mattrudd. Again if by "air raid" we mean close to the same offense Mumme ran hear then it's a little more than odd that neither Brown or Dawson came close to that, ESPECIALLY since both came directly from the Mumme tree.

Heard many reason and none of them make since either. You can't say we don't have the Oline to run it because the real "air raid" offense is almost designed to compensate for a bad Oline in that it's not reliant on downfield passing and long developing plays with 5 step drops, instead it's short quick out of the hand plays that don't ask much from pass blocking OLs. And the primary run plays in an "air raid" are draws and delays that don't require OL's to blow people off the line, but instead to just engage them and create room mainly by the rushing lanes of the DL.

The other main argument is we don't have the Skill guys to do it. Except for Couch and Yeast we've got as much or more than before. Maybe we're underestimating just how good Couch was at managing this up tempo system and how good Yeast and Anthony White were at making plays. But my opinion is they were all pretty good no doubt but the real difference was Mumme ran the thing like a machine. There was no hesitation and they drilled on the tempo so much so even guys like Lance Mickelson and Jimmy Robinson were weapons. We kept the DL on their heels all the time with our tempo and our execution of the short passing game. And the way we actually executed the plays, with jail break/ two minute style and not slow, stop and think style. As I've said before, I don't think its near as important what you run as how you run it, and Mumme, Leach, Briles, Malzan and other clearly drill and run their stuff different than other and that's how a coach makes a real difference.

Do yourselves a favor and go youtube Couch vs. Tennessee and Lorenzen vs. Tennessee. Absolutely fun to watch.

I just don't think Dawson or Brown committed to that type of pass to set up the run system and drilled for it. If they did then it sure didn't show or maybe we just didn't have the QB to run it effectively. But I didn't recognize in what I saw. I understand that with Dawson as its his first time, but Brown actually made it work at Tech. Strange.

 

[Bluu]

Thank you Soup, I get the feeling half the posters don't even watch the games. TXam, Ole Miss, Clemson, Memphis, Houston, any many many other teams utilize most of the "air raid" offense. People on here act like it doesn't exist any more. Tim Couch did an interview earlier this year and listed 10-15 schools that were running the same system he ran at UK and 90% of them were having successful seasons.

 

[TBCat]

He may have been a bad hire but three OC's in three years isn't a recipe for success either.

Agree with this. I think we should give him another but clearly those results do have to go. What ever they do they need to be a lot less conservative on offense. And fix the damn line. There is no excuse for the line to be that bad after 3 years.