Can somebody please tell me how the hell Salem Fullback Alex Ramsey didn't get any recognition for his performance. He got snubbed on the all-region and all-state team, and to my knowledge didn't even make all-conference. IMO he played the best out of anybody on the spartans this year, being an absolute work horse on both sides of the ball. he ended up with 1000+ yards rushing and 22 touchdowns at FULLBACK. Smebody please explain this to me.
Shocked
- Thread starter swvaspartan
- Start date
they just choose running backs not fullbacks------Hopefully he will come out next year with a chip on his shoulder. He is probably the best running back in all of SW Va. ----you just need to ignore the title fullback
Totally without any opinion with who was or was not selected by the conferences, regions or for the coaches/AD's all state teams, basically you need to dismiss their selections. Not because of any reason other than there is, has always has been, and always will be political motives behind the selections. Voters make agreements to support each other's choices whenever possible to try to protect their own players. Unless a player is an unquestionable choice, partisan politics rules.
If you want to see an objective selection process, keep your eye open for what Va Preps publishes.
If you want to see an objective selection process, keep your eye open for what Va Preps publishes.
Who are the idiots? I was at the all state meeting last year and Mitchum wasn't on the list. So that means he was snubbed locally by either the conference or 4a North coaches. Now as far as voting goes there are concessions made and decisions made and every kid can't make it and you have to go with the kid that has the best chance of making it the farthest for recognition. Trying to get Lil Bobby your LG on the all conference or all region 1st team because you like him is cool, but if Bobby didn't dominate and your team didn't go anywhere his chances are advancing are very slim. Now if you have John who has some name recognition dominated and plays RG then he'll have a better chance moving forward and that is the player coaches will push. It's not a great system, but the way the system works. As long as you win and advance the better chance you have moving forward. Honestly Ramsey was hurt because you only get 3 rbi's and they won't going to give Salem 2 out of the 3 slots considering you have Navy Jones in conference also plus GW who was 10-0. Makes you choose between your own kids. Trust me I'm 99% sure that's how it went down.
I know my AD said he was going to bring it back up at the next 4a meeting, but I don't think that will be until the spring.
I think that cross-bracketing is the most fair way to go about making the state championship match up, but with the 4A game being held at Liberty, it makes more financial sense to guarantee that one of the teams comes from the West.
I was surprised to see Coleman Fox get the Roanoke Times POY. I thought the Magna Vista QB should have got it.
If vhsl continues to re-access the school enrollments every 2 years.. Then they shud try cross bracketing for 2 years... See how it goes and make adjustments from there. Guess that makes too much sense. Does vhsl get 1/3 gate for the benefit games? Thought I heard that... If so then they can use that Kitty for any issues with a low attendance championship game if that actually occurs.
Come on is exactly right in this case. Fox is local, so Roanoke takes him. As far as the Ramsey thing, with so many teams not even using fullbacks that's a factor in the selection process. You would think people would see it for what it is, but I believe coaches are copy cats to a large degree. How many teams do you see trying to run a spread type offense now that don't have good enough skilled talent? You see it all the time. I think the new stuff is easier to do, and the old stuff is maybe harder to stop, but also harder to coach and takes a lot of work. For instance, then state title game. Salem, traditional I-Formation football team. Lake Taylor, split back veer option. Both extremely old fashioned schemes, but they sure worked well. Fads are just that, but real football is real football. You must block, tackle, and run the football to be successful at a high level. Everything else spins off those things. But Ramsey will get his due as a senior. The way they do these all star teams now it's like getting in the playoffs. It's like how many positions can we create to get as many names on the list as possible. Then you end up with some people not getting on the team, like Ramsey, who is obviously a better football player that many of those on it. It's political correctness, and that's how our public school systems operate.
Just think the VHSL just added a TE to the team this year as last year it was just 3 WR. Our TE last season Jalyn Holmes made 1st team WR last year because the coaches recognized the VHSL made a mistake by not having a TE position and having 3 WRs. This year they made 2 WR and 1 TE. Also last year the VHSL did not name a 2nd team it was 1st team only and anyone else was just out there and assumed to be 2nd team. Last year the VHSL did not name a POY or COY but they did this year. I know in our meeting last season we made a list that included these changes and I'm sure the other coaches did the same the VHSL made the changes. However like you said the FB position is one that most don't use anymore so having a FB would be hard change to make. I personally think Ramsey has the "FB" position on your team but he's really a running back paling FB. You can tell by the way he runs. He's not plodding and downhill only like traditional FB's he making cuts, bouncing to the outside, and he can lower the shoulder and run people over. I think he needs to get more carries at RB next season because that is what he will be at the next level.
I guess it's kinda like..
How Joel Hicks hasn't been elected to the coaches hall of fame in Virginia. The man won 301 games and only had 1 losing season in 36 years of being a head coach. That was his first year coaching taking over a program 1 week before the season started. No disrespect to coach Dave Christ, but he won 210 games in 44 years in 2A and has been elected and Joel Hicks won 210 in 24 years at PC alone in the highest classification. He also had winning records against great coaches such as Willis White and others. SHAME on the VHSL for this. And i agree, Ramsey should have the recognition he deserved. He's a great player.
This post was edited on 12/29 12:39 PM by pcken
How Joel Hicks hasn't been elected to the coaches hall of fame in Virginia. The man won 301 games and only had 1 losing season in 36 years of being a head coach. That was his first year coaching taking over a program 1 week before the season started. No disrespect to coach Dave Christ, but he won 210 games in 44 years in 2A and has been elected and Joel Hicks won 210 in 24 years at PC alone in the highest classification. He also had winning records against great coaches such as Willis White and others. SHAME on the VHSL for this. And i agree, Ramsey should have the recognition he deserved. He's a great player.
This post was edited on 12/29 12:39 PM by pcken
Cross Brackets in 4a will be a financial disaster.
Cross bracketing???
In all likelihood, the east teams will be dominate for most of the next few years. You could very easily have two tidewater teams playing in Lynchburg for the Championship, instead of just one.
Devils will tell you, Lake Taylor doesn't travel well, and for understandable reasons. Few, if any of the inner city teams have a huge, mobile fan base. This is not a criticism, just a fact. I know Norcom will be 3a next year, but my God, they were lucky to get 500 people to come out for a home playoff game.
Cross brackets in 4a would be risking an embarrassing disaster. If the 3a fans had no interest in the 4a game at Lynchburg, it would look like a wasteland. How many Magna Vista fans would have hung around to see Lake Taylor and Lafayette play? Probably about 200..., until half time.
We have beaten this horse to death about 1000 times in the last two years. If you want to see a West team as champion, then tell them to start playing east football teams during the season. Tell them to change their style of play. Tell them to steal speed off of the other varsity teams. Staying the course is not going to do it for them.
The best coached, most talented, most athletic, west team this year, (Salem), never stood a chance against Lake Taylor, and probably could not have beaten any of the top four east teams. This isn't being conceited, this is just simply facts. You can not prepare for a team like Lake Taylor was this year, and what Dinwiddie was last year, by not facing that type of team speed, and that style of play during the year. The west just does not have many teams that come at you in the style that is typical "down east". In most parts of the east, half your schedule is against teams like LT. Most don't do it nearly as well as the Lake Taylor's of the world, but it's still similar in style and speed. And most of the 5a and 6a teams that are faced by the east teams, (because of old district schedules), are brutal. THIS, is what prepares you to beat championship level teams.
Cross bracketing ain't going to fix this guys. All it will do is get you two teams in Lynchburg that the region from Farmville to Chilhowie good give a rip less about seeing. (At least there won't be a problem getting a good seat on the 50)!
Cross bracketing???
In all likelihood, the east teams will be dominate for most of the next few years. You could very easily have two tidewater teams playing in Lynchburg for the Championship, instead of just one.
Devils will tell you, Lake Taylor doesn't travel well, and for understandable reasons. Few, if any of the inner city teams have a huge, mobile fan base. This is not a criticism, just a fact. I know Norcom will be 3a next year, but my God, they were lucky to get 500 people to come out for a home playoff game.
Cross brackets in 4a would be risking an embarrassing disaster. If the 3a fans had no interest in the 4a game at Lynchburg, it would look like a wasteland. How many Magna Vista fans would have hung around to see Lake Taylor and Lafayette play? Probably about 200..., until half time.
We have beaten this horse to death about 1000 times in the last two years. If you want to see a West team as champion, then tell them to start playing east football teams during the season. Tell them to change their style of play. Tell them to steal speed off of the other varsity teams. Staying the course is not going to do it for them.
The best coached, most talented, most athletic, west team this year, (Salem), never stood a chance against Lake Taylor, and probably could not have beaten any of the top four east teams. This isn't being conceited, this is just simply facts. You can not prepare for a team like Lake Taylor was this year, and what Dinwiddie was last year, by not facing that type of team speed, and that style of play during the year. The west just does not have many teams that come at you in the style that is typical "down east". In most parts of the east, half your schedule is against teams like LT. Most don't do it nearly as well as the Lake Taylor's of the world, but it's still similar in style and speed. And most of the 5a and 6a teams that are faced by the east teams, (because of old district schedules), are brutal. THIS, is what prepares you to beat championship level teams.
Cross bracketing ain't going to fix this guys. All it will do is get you two teams in Lynchburg that the region from Farmville to Chilhowie good give a rip less about seeing. (At least there won't be a problem getting a good seat on the 50)!
Re: Cross Brackets in 4a will be a financial disaster.
Here is the reality of coaching at Lake Taylor.... In the summer we have to get two buses to pick up our kids to show up for summer workouts and practice. During the season if there is no school then we have to go pick the kids up with buses to get them to practice. We have 1 kid on the entire team that has a car. A large number of parents don't own cars and don't show up for away games because 1) they don't have a car or 2) they don't have reliable transportation. If a kid misses the bus to come to school they don't come to school because they are not walking to school they are getting in the bed and going back to sleep. I remember when I first started teaching and coaching in Norfolk how much different it was when it came in terms of transportation. The last week before school let out we had a parent night at the middle school this huge to do to get parents out and get them information about SOL's in January. We have 800 students at LTMS...5 parents showed up! Now on the flip side a lot of kids came to school with the new Jordan's on because their parent or them stood in line for them..SMH
Hey Checkdown,
First, welcome to the forum. Glad to have another voice on here.
Technically, yes the VHSL makes the decision on cross bracketing. But it's not as simple as that. The member schools vote for their approval by majority vote on items like this. In this case, the 4a members will need to have a change to cross bracketing brought up for a vote. The idea will be discussed, argued, analyzed, fought over, etc., and hopefully, the best answer will be approved. (Personally, as you can see above, I think it is a terrible idea at this point in time).
As far as the proceeds of a benifit contest, you are correct. After expenses, the VHSL receives a 1/3 share. (Handbook 54-3-4).
First, welcome to the forum. Glad to have another voice on here.
Technically, yes the VHSL makes the decision on cross bracketing. But it's not as simple as that. The member schools vote for their approval by majority vote on items like this. In this case, the 4a members will need to have a change to cross bracketing brought up for a vote. The idea will be discussed, argued, analyzed, fought over, etc., and hopefully, the best answer will be approved. (Personally, as you can see above, I think it is a terrible idea at this point in time).
As far as the proceeds of a benifit contest, you are correct. After expenses, the VHSL receives a 1/3 share. (Handbook 54-3-4).
Re: Cross Brackets in 4a will be a financial disaster.
I was at the game in Lynchburg, and Lake Taylor reminded me of the best 3A and 4A teams that you see down where I'm from in Georgia. Speed to burn, and will flat out strike you hard. Only difference is that these type teams are mostly from rural areas in middle and south Georgia, and the entire community supports them to the max.
I was at the game in Lynchburg, and Lake Taylor reminded me of the best 3A and 4A teams that you see down where I'm from in Georgia. Speed to burn, and will flat out strike you hard. Only difference is that these type teams are mostly from rural areas in middle and south Georgia, and the entire community supports them to the max.
Re: Cross Brackets in 4a will be a financial disaster.
Dramatic differences throughout the state, with respect to fan support. Most single high school counties support their teams well. It appears to me that most of the smaller schools in Southwestern Virginia have extremely faithful fans, but the crowds are smaller because the communities are smaller. Many older city high schools do fair, or a little better, on fan support , but in most cases, the glory days of the school has passed and everyone kind of talks mostly of past glory.
The oldest, truly inner city schools really struggle for fans for the most part. Much of the residential living around the school is older and not homeowner owned. The population is somewhat transient, and going to a football game is usually not high on their agenda.
But, it's easy to be fooled. I went to a Nottoway homecoming game a few years ago, and they filled the place, and had standing room only. I've been to a couple of the bigger Chesterfield schools and Dinwiddie's traveling fans out numbered the home fans by 5 to 8, to 1. It seems to make no difference how fancy a stadium is, some get great support, some don't. Winning certainly helps, but that is no guarantee of large crowds.
And, when I talk of fan support, I really mean the big picture. Community support is easily related to fan support. They go hand in hand..
Dramatic differences throughout the state, with respect to fan support. Most single high school counties support their teams well. It appears to me that most of the smaller schools in Southwestern Virginia have extremely faithful fans, but the crowds are smaller because the communities are smaller. Many older city high schools do fair, or a little better, on fan support , but in most cases, the glory days of the school has passed and everyone kind of talks mostly of past glory.
The oldest, truly inner city schools really struggle for fans for the most part. Much of the residential living around the school is older and not homeowner owned. The population is somewhat transient, and going to a football game is usually not high on their agenda.
But, it's easy to be fooled. I went to a Nottoway homecoming game a few years ago, and they filled the place, and had standing room only. I've been to a couple of the bigger Chesterfield schools and Dinwiddie's traveling fans out numbered the home fans by 5 to 8, to 1. It seems to make no difference how fancy a stadium is, some get great support, some don't. Winning certainly helps, but that is no guarantee of large crowds.
And, when I talk of fan support, I really mean the big picture. Community support is easily related to fan support. They go hand in hand..
Re: Cross Brackets in 4a will be a financial disaster.
This post was edited on 12/30 8:12 AM by DEVILSLB99
I agree with what you are saying, but all year I heard about how Salem played PH-Roanoke and Northside and they have athletes and prepared them to play LT. Obviously playing a 6-5 D6 team and a 10-3 3a school that may have decent athletes didn't do the trick. Also playing them both in September didn't help. But Salem don't have the resources to go too far to play and don't want to mess with traditional rivalries etc. My question to all of these teams that have this mindset is simple. Is it too much for much to save up, maybe even fundraise for a game or trip that you will have to only take 1 time in 2 years?? Even if you don't travel in 2015 saving up some money for travel in 2016 is too hard? WE have NO booster club at LT and we as coaches fundraise for our team and our athletic budget has been cut by the city every year for the past 5 years, yet we went to Bird and Amherst this year along with a scrimmage at Hopewell. It can be done and the excuses are just what they are excuses. Step out your comfort zones and schedule someone teams. I will tell you from experience it made a world of difference in our program when we scheduled Hylton, Battlefield, GW-Danville, Bird, and Amherst. Allowed us to see how football is played in different parts of the state and sure we lost both games to Battlefield but we learned a lot about our program.
This post was edited on 12/30 8:12 AM by DEVILSLB99
Re: Cross Brackets in 4a will be a financial disaster.
I think Salem has resources to travel, if they wanted to. Many schools just want to stay close to their own backyard. Nothing prepares a team for playoffs like a good road trip in regular season.
I think Salem has resources to travel, if they wanted to. Many schools just want to stay close to their own backyard. Nothing prepares a team for playoffs like a good road trip in regular season.
Re: Cross Brackets in 4a will be a financial disaster.
Not sure where the misconception has arisen that Salem doesn't have the resources. That program has resources, either already in the bank or through access in the community to meet any need or demand that arises. Until the recent R&R there was no real need to adjust the scheduling philosophy, however, I would guess that if the two most recent years are not enough impetus then a couple of additional years with similar outcomes will do the trick.
A question for you. I have asked before whether schools now playing in lower classes(formerly played in higher classifications) would eventually lose players to higher classification schools? So far, it does not appear LT has had any issue with that and given the level of D-1 offers your players are still receiving it doesn't appear it will be an issue in the near future but, is it even something on the radar of your staff and coaches?
Not sure where the misconception has arisen that Salem doesn't have the resources. That program has resources, either already in the bank or through access in the community to meet any need or demand that arises. Until the recent R&R there was no real need to adjust the scheduling philosophy, however, I would guess that if the two most recent years are not enough impetus then a couple of additional years with similar outcomes will do the trick.
A question for you. I have asked before whether schools now playing in lower classes(formerly played in higher classifications) would eventually lose players to higher classification schools? So far, it does not appear LT has had any issue with that and given the level of D-1 offers your players are still receiving it doesn't appear it will be an issue in the near future but, is it even something on the radar of your staff and coaches?
D-1 Offers
I think if a guy can play, size of his high school doesn't matter that much. The coaches will find him.
I think if a guy can play, size of his high school doesn't matter that much. The coaches will find him.
Re: D-1 Offers
That holds true for guys with no questions, however, the size of the school, more accurately the level of the competition they routinely face, is a factor in evaluating kids. Recruiting isn't an exact science in any form but, the more variables or risks a recruiter can take out of an equation the more confident they will feel in pulling the trigger. One of the biggest evaluation risks is projecting how a kid that has faced low to marginal competition will compare in a higher level environment.
That holds true for guys with no questions, however, the size of the school, more accurately the level of the competition they routinely face, is a factor in evaluating kids. Recruiting isn't an exact science in any form but, the more variables or risks a recruiter can take out of an equation the more confident they will feel in pulling the trigger. One of the biggest evaluation risks is projecting how a kid that has faced low to marginal competition will compare in a higher level environment.
Re: Cross Brackets in 4a will be a financial disaster.
As long as they have their Jordan's the American dream remains alive I guess.
As long as they have their Jordan's the American dream remains alive I guess.
Re: Cross Brackets in 4a will be a financial disaster.
Rural schools support better, and parental involvement is also better. City schools sometimes have the best talent, but seldom if ever have much family support or community involvement. Just the way it is, and it's certainly not exclusive to Virginia. It's that way all across the country, and I would like to add that I truly love living in the country. If that means we have a bit less talent at times, I can deal with that. But schools do need to be aggressive in getting whatever support is available for their programs. Few high schools can totally support their athletic programs, so booster type help is important, and without it, some schools might not be able to make it.
Rural schools support better, and parental involvement is also better. City schools sometimes have the best talent, but seldom if ever have much family support or community involvement. Just the way it is, and it's certainly not exclusive to Virginia. It's that way all across the country, and I would like to add that I truly love living in the country. If that means we have a bit less talent at times, I can deal with that. But schools do need to be aggressive in getting whatever support is available for their programs. Few high schools can totally support their athletic programs, so booster type help is important, and without it, some schools might not be able to make it.
Re: Cross Brackets in 4a will be a financial disaster.
The conversation was about community and family support for high schools. We've heard that other stuff enough. However, community support is absolutely linked to family support. Without one, there is not the other.
The conversation was about community and family support for high schools. We've heard that other stuff enough. However, community support is absolutely linked to family support. Without one, there is not the other.
Re: D-1 Offers
That is true. I have seen highly touted recruits never play a down, and I have seen walk-ons become All Americans. I recall back in the 90s a WR signed with VT who was supposed to be one of best WRs in NCAA history. When he left VT, he had the same number of receptions as me.
That is true. I have seen highly touted recruits never play a down, and I have seen walk-ons become All Americans. I recall back in the 90s a WR signed with VT who was supposed to be one of best WRs in NCAA history. When he left VT, he had the same number of receptions as me.
Re: Cross Brackets in 4a will be a financial disaster.
I don't agree with all this travel stuff. I also don't think anyone should assume that Salem is avoiding competition. I do not believe that at all. There are plenty of teams to play, and good competition available. Why travel? You can talk about headline matchups and that stuff and getting prepared for playoffs, but if you're good enough, you're good enough, and you can travel to the east for a so-called big game, but the one thing you absolutely bring back with you is a debt to pay. Public schools are not private schools. You have to justify the expenses, or else get them privately. But I just don't see what's the big deal. Most schools I've ever know that had to do a lot of travel spent considerable time complaining about all the travel and how expensive it was.
I don't agree with all this travel stuff. I also don't think anyone should assume that Salem is avoiding competition. I do not believe that at all. There are plenty of teams to play, and good competition available. Why travel? You can talk about headline matchups and that stuff and getting prepared for playoffs, but if you're good enough, you're good enough, and you can travel to the east for a so-called big game, but the one thing you absolutely bring back with you is a debt to pay. Public schools are not private schools. You have to justify the expenses, or else get them privately. But I just don't see what's the big deal. Most schools I've ever know that had to do a lot of travel spent considerable time complaining about all the travel and how expensive it was.
Scheduling
It's good to schedule different teams, in different parts of the state. Personally I do not like same teams playing each year after year. Expand the schedule, play up if possible, so that you don't meet them again in playoffs.
It's good to schedule different teams, in different parts of the state. Personally I do not like same teams playing each year after year. Expand the schedule, play up if possible, so that you don't meet them again in playoffs.
Re: Cross Brackets in 4a will be a financial disaster.
I have not heard of one kid leaving a school in this area to go to a higher classification school. Honestly around here it really doesn't matter if a kid leaves a program its because that program has a better chance of winning and getting them into college not what classification they are in which has always been the case.
I have not heard of one kid leaving a school in this area to go to a higher classification school. Honestly around here it really doesn't matter if a kid leaves a program its because that program has a better chance of winning and getting them into college not what classification they are in which has always been the case.
Re: Cross Brackets in 4a will be a financial disaster.
No way saying it's a Salem thing as its a reason that has been given by many schools statewide, but mostly from out in that area. Broad Run, Battlefield, Woodbridge, and Hylton are a couple of teams that come to mind from NoVA that took a trip during the regular season to play a game down here. GW-Danville and Amherst played us during the regular season, but I have contacted Fleming, PH-Roanoke, Hidden Valley, and a couple of other schools in the past and they all said they can get good games where they are which again to me means I'll sit here and play my buddies. If you have these boosters and all this support why are you bringing back debt? I know we worked a gate split with Amherst and L.C. Bird both years to help with expenses so there are ways around incurring a lot of debt and with the support you guys give Salem one trip shouldn't mean a lot of debt for the football program.
No way saying it's a Salem thing as its a reason that has been given by many schools statewide, but mostly from out in that area. Broad Run, Battlefield, Woodbridge, and Hylton are a couple of teams that come to mind from NoVA that took a trip during the regular season to play a game down here. GW-Danville and Amherst played us during the regular season, but I have contacted Fleming, PH-Roanoke, Hidden Valley, and a couple of other schools in the past and they all said they can get good games where they are which again to me means I'll sit here and play my buddies. If you have these boosters and all this support why are you bringing back debt? I know we worked a gate split with Amherst and L.C. Bird both years to help with expenses so there are ways around incurring a lot of debt and with the support you guys give Salem one trip shouldn't mean a lot of debt for the football program.
Fullbacks just don't get much recognition anymore.
There's not a spot for them on All-whatever teams. I know as a former Bird coach and a consistent follower of Bird, that they often had the best fullback you'd ever see, scholarship offers, etc. But the kids would never make all anything districts because the backfield votes pretty much go by most yards and that's always going to be a bunch of halfbacks, tailbacks (whatever you want to call them).
I do think it would be neat if somebody would go through and make some sort of list every year of the best fullbacks around the state.
There's not a spot for them on All-whatever teams. I know as a former Bird coach and a consistent follower of Bird, that they often had the best fullback you'd ever see, scholarship offers, etc. But the kids would never make all anything districts because the backfield votes pretty much go by most yards and that's always going to be a bunch of halfbacks, tailbacks (whatever you want to call them).
I do think it would be neat if somebody would go through and make some sort of list every year of the best fullbacks around the state.
Re: Cross Brackets in 4a will be a financial disaster.
I think another consideration is playoff seeding. In the past the thinking was which schedule will give me the best chance at the #1 seed for home field throughout. That is still a big consideration, but playing a team from outside of the area to get ready for the playoffs may become a necessary part of the thought process. There are a lot of variables that go into a schedule. It may be a good time to evaluate the schedule and see if the variables are properly weighted to bring about the desired result.
I think another consideration is playoff seeding. In the past the thinking was which schedule will give me the best chance at the #1 seed for home field throughout. That is still a big consideration, but playing a team from outside of the area to get ready for the playoffs may become a necessary part of the thought process. There are a lot of variables that go into a schedule. It may be a good time to evaluate the schedule and see if the variables are properly weighted to bring about the desired result.
I don't think it's quite as bad or nefarious as you make it seem. I have actually been present at these meetings (acting basically as secretary). I always shook my head at some of the stuff they did, some of the ludicrous stats they came up with. There was a lot of gamesmanship and some coaches were definitely buddies and looking out for one another. At the regional level, the votes were so often split along regional lines. Nevertheless, I never had the feeling anyone had really made deals. Most coaches are in it for the kids and they want to do right by the kids. I think a lot of the "packs" I saw were simply a matter of coaches voting for kids they had seen a lot. When you get to the regionals for instance, the coaches had all pretty much seen and heard all about the kids in their region while the kids from the rest of the state were just names and numbers to them.
I did feel like coaches tried to be objective though. For instance, I was never at a meeting where the three running backs weren't the three with the most yards. Of course, there's a lot more to being a good back than that, but we've got coaches voting on kids they haven't seen and the most objective thing they could do was that.
The other thing is this. Some coaches are really good about making the case for kids. If you've got a coach supporting you who is a great speaker with a great personality and who commands a lot of respect from his peers, that's a big help.
I don't think any of this is why a this particular kid didn't get anything. Plain and simple: fullbacks are, for all intents and purposes, ineligible for all-district consideration.
I did feel like coaches tried to be objective though. For instance, I was never at a meeting where the three running backs weren't the three with the most yards. Of course, there's a lot more to being a good back than that, but we've got coaches voting on kids they haven't seen and the most objective thing they could do was that.
The other thing is this. Some coaches are really good about making the case for kids. If you've got a coach supporting you who is a great speaker with a great personality and who commands a lot of respect from his peers, that's a big help.
I don't think any of this is why a this particular kid didn't get anything. Plain and simple: fullbacks are, for all intents and purposes, ineligible for all-district consideration.
Well a lot has changed since you have been in the meetings. Now it's all about who has the best chance of moving forward, which team went the farthest, and who's running the meeting. Last year we had QB's first and it was open voting its Dingle from Denbigh had a solid year lost in the 2nd round vs. QB from Sherando who was regional player of the year took his team to state runner up finish. So open voting all 3 coaches from North vote for Sherando QB all 3 coaches from South vote for Denbigh QB so its a tie. Now Denbigh QB had better numbers, but kid from Sherando was 4a North POY, well Dingle got 1st team QB because the person running the meeting held the tiebreaker and he was from the.....South! These are the kinds of things that I have witnessed going on in meetings. OL time for a spot well lets name them both 1st team, but we are going to push this kid forward because his team went farther and he has a better chance of making all state. That actually happened!
I think the VHSL makes mistakes that hurt the public interest in their tournaments.
A big one is any kind of reseeding or cross bracketing.
If you don't have a bracket you can print in the newspaper like the NCAA basketball tournament you lose a lot of interest. Few people follow it more than I do, and I have to refer to a little sheet every year to figure who might play who in most sports. I also have to remember who reseeds or cross brackets in football and when. I also believe the VHSL hurts themselves by allowing teams in other sports to advance in the playoffs even when they lose. People don't know what the heck is going on. I'm at a school where the kids and coaches of various sports in the playoffs don't know what the heck is going on.
"If we win this one we advance, no matter what, but if in two games from now, we don't?"
"The one seed in our district plays the three seed in their district?" "No that was last year, this year the one seed in our district plays the two seed from that other district."
"It's a shame you guys lost the play off game. I thought you might win it all." "No. we're still alive. Coach rested the starters because we figured we were better off if we lost so we could play the one seed from the rotten district instead of the two seed from the good conference."
"Mr. Gilliam, can we still get in the playoffs?" "Everyone gets in the playoffs."
"No, we didn't get in the playoffs in football." "Football is different."
etc. etc.
Just freaking make a bracket after the regular season and play. Gee whiz.
I honestly do think there would be more interest if it were easier to follow.
A big one is any kind of reseeding or cross bracketing.
If you don't have a bracket you can print in the newspaper like the NCAA basketball tournament you lose a lot of interest. Few people follow it more than I do, and I have to refer to a little sheet every year to figure who might play who in most sports. I also have to remember who reseeds or cross brackets in football and when. I also believe the VHSL hurts themselves by allowing teams in other sports to advance in the playoffs even when they lose. People don't know what the heck is going on. I'm at a school where the kids and coaches of various sports in the playoffs don't know what the heck is going on.
"If we win this one we advance, no matter what, but if in two games from now, we don't?"
"The one seed in our district plays the three seed in their district?" "No that was last year, this year the one seed in our district plays the two seed from that other district."
"It's a shame you guys lost the play off game. I thought you might win it all." "No. we're still alive. Coach rested the starters because we figured we were better off if we lost so we could play the one seed from the rotten district instead of the two seed from the good conference."
"Mr. Gilliam, can we still get in the playoffs?" "Everyone gets in the playoffs."
"No, we didn't get in the playoffs in football." "Football is different."
etc. etc.
Just freaking make a bracket after the regular season and play. Gee whiz.
I honestly do think there would be more interest if it were easier to follow.
Re: I guess it's kinda like..
Make sure someone nominates him. Sometimes deserving people simply don't get nominated.
Make sure someone nominates him. Sometimes deserving people simply don't get nominated.
Re: Hey Checkdown,
The VHSL received 1/3 of those last year and lost $200,000. They were really keeping their fingers crossed for good weather this year in the state playoffs. I hope they took in the kind of gate they needed to.
The VHSL received 1/3 of those last year and lost $200,000. They were really keeping their fingers crossed for good weather this year in the state playoffs. I hope they took in the kind of gate they needed to.