Simple Question

[John Lorry]

From 2015 through 2018, Dan Mullen will be paid on average $4.275 million per year. While I cannot find a list for 2016 comparing the salaries of all coaches, last year's USA Today list had Dan Mullen at No. 16 out of all other coaches in the country with a salary at $4 million. It's not publicly available, but for Dan Mullen's salary to average $4.275 over 4 years, its reasonable to expect $125,000-$150,000 bump each year at a minimum. This almost certainly puts his salary in the top 15 for 2016.

Question: If Dan is receiving a top 15 salary, then isn't it fair to expect a top 15 team?

Based on the annual increase for 2016, it's reasonable to assume Dan is getting paid potentially as much as Jim McElwain at Florida and more than the coaches at Arkansas, Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri and South Carolina (and likely Vanderbilt as well, but Mason's pay isn't disclosed). In 2015, Dan was also getting paid more than Dabo Swinney.

Thoughts?

 

[UpTheMiddlex3Punt]

We can't get a better coach than him, so we should be willing to pay top 15 money regardless of the results

 

[The Peeper]

Simple answer, with your logic we would base the national championship and final top 20 based on salary? Awesome we won't have to buy season tickets or go to games, we'll hand out championships to the school with the highest salaries!

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

Never pay someone so little they have to leave and never pay them so much they can't.

That's the problem we're in with Mullen. We've paid him so well he can't leave. Oregon, Michigan State & Clemson paid their coaches less last year than we did. Think about that for a second. If Mullen traded jobs with Mark Helfrich he'd get a salary reduction.

We can't throw money at someone and gain their loyalty. We need someone who WANTS to be at MSU. Not someone who sees us as a stepping stone. Mullen clearly is the latter.

 

[John Lorry]

Simple answer, with your logic we would base the national championship and final top 20 based on salary? Awesome we won't have to buy season tickets or go to games, we'll hand out championships to the school with the highest salaries!

That's not my "logic" at all.

I do think it's interesting that, at the moment, the top 5 programs in the AP correlate closely to the top 5 (or top 10) salaries of the respective coaches. Obviously correlation does not denote causation, but it is interesting.

At its most basic level, a school/business pays for perceived value concerning coaches/executives. If Mississippi State is paying a top 15 salary, doesn't that say that Mississippi State expects ≥ top 15 team performance? If not, isn't that concerning? If not, why the hell isn't MSU expecting that?

I'm not advocating that MSU fire Mullen, that would be ridiculous at this juncture. But I think these are legitimate questions to ask when MSU is paying as well as everyone save for Alabama and Michigan. At Mullen's assumed peak salary in 2018 of $4.5mm, we're within $500k to $1mm of every other coach's salary other than Nick Saban and Jim Harbaugh.

I guess my point is, it would be a different story if MSU were paying mid to low level compensation for our head coach. But MSU isn't. In fact, MSU is paying an "elite" salary. It seems reasonable to me that if you pay an elite salary, you should receive an elite coach and therefore an elite team in return.

 

[thatsbaseball]

At schools like MSU it`s more about producing revenue than winning championships. Of course it takes a certain amount of winning to keep attendance up, sell tickets and keep donations flowing but at some schools (like us) championships in football just simply aren`t mandatory to keep one`s job. Mullen (thanks to Dak and some pretty good talent Croom had left behind when he arrived) has earned his keep up to now. I now see him on a downhill slide that I quite frankly don`t see him reversing. Just follow the money.

 

[was21]

There's no nexus in that comparison

 

[The Peeper]

How many coaches would sign a contract based on the final ranking at the end of the year? That's right, none! Today's coaches are paid based on return of investment on so much more than a ranking. Like him or not, chances are we wouldn't have had the football complex today, the stadium expansion, the number of fans in The Junction that make Bulldog Club and Endowment donations and buy tickets, a #1 national ranking and a quarterback on the cover of Sports Illustrated twice, record enrollment and donations if Mullen wasn't here when he was. What value did you put on all of the free advertising we got the last 2 years of football? Could someone else have done it, absolutely, but like it or not he's paid now based on what he's produced in the past and the future will shape itself in the future, not last Saturdays game.

 

[John Lorry]

In general, you don't believe the best coaches command the highest salaries?

 

[Coast Dawg]

Never pay someone so little they have to leave and never pay them so much they can't.

That's the problem we're in with Mullen. We've paid him so well he can't leave. Oregon, Michigan State & Clemson paid their coaches less last year than we did. Think about that for a second. If Mullen traded jobs with Mark Helfrich he'd get a salary reduction.

We can't throw money at someone and gain their loyalty. We need someone who WANTS to be at MSU. Not someone who sees us as a stepping stone. Mullen clearly is the latter.

20/20 hindsight.

couple of years ago people were freaking out that State might lose him to a bigger program. "we have to pay him more". based on whatever the recent success was at that time

Now, a loss to USA and he is overpaid by millions

 

[John Lorry]

The team ranking is just a quick and dirty performance metric, that's the only reason I mention it.

I acknowledge the incredible impact Dan Mullen has had on MSU. In my view, he's the greatest football coach we've ever had and that has a lot to do with the effect he's had on the program as a whole, not just the W/L column.

But a coach's number one responsibility is success on the field. If you pay a coach a top 15 salary, then its reasonable to expect the team to perform commensurate to the value paid. There are up and down years, of course, but the peaks and valleys should be higher up the spectrum when a school pays for it, e.g. an up year for an elite program could be playoff contention and a down year might be 8 wins.

Isn't that what a school is paying for when they pay the price for an "elite" coach?

 

[aTotal360]

Yes, but I also think a school like MSU has to pay a premium to keep good coaches. We will have to overpay to keep someone we want if we want to stay relevant. Traditional thinking is that "lesser" schools are stepping stones and should pay accordingly. That mentality is not going to get you anywhere today.

 

[fishwater99]

We pay him Way too much to lose to USA and to not have a QB ready when Dak left..

 

[FQDawg]

I think your reasoning is a bit off...

But I think these are legitimate questions to ask when MSU is paying as well as everyone save for Alabama and Michigan. At Mullen's assumed peak salary in 2018 of $4.5mm, we're within $500k to $1mm of every other coach's salary other than Nick Saban and Jim Harbaugh.

First, you say we have a Top 15 job in terms of pay. Then, a post or two later, you've managed to skip ahead 12 spots in the rankings to conflate us with the two top paid coaches in the country in order to stretch a comparison. Also, even if Mullen gets a consistent bump each year, it's likely that most other coaches are getting a similar bump, so he'd still be in the 15 range (assuming that's even right... I don't know and, frankly, don't care).

But the bottom line is that looking at just the head coach's salary is such a small portion of our overall program. I'd be willing to bet that although we might be on the relative high end in terms of Mullen's salary, we're probably behind in other areas (assistant salaries, just to make up a speculative example). I'd be further willing to bet that if you looked at overall budgets for football programs over the last eight years, we'd likely be in the 25-35 range, which probably means that, if anything, we've generally overachieved under Mullen. But even that is an overly simplistic approach.

 

[John Lorry]

Now, a loss to USA and he is overpaid by millions

Yes, this is the issue I've raised for consideration. Losing to a program that's been a member of the NCAA for 4 years and that's never finished higher than 5th in the Sun Belt is enough to ask these questions, at least in my view.

 

[kired]

I don't think he cares if he is fired tomorrow. We owe him a boatload of money. He watched his mentor practically stroke out a few years ago, then take some time off and eventually get his dream job. I honestly think Mullen is enjoying life. He's been paid (or will eventually be paid) somewhere in the range of $30-40 million by MSU. He's had enough media exposure the last few years that he's got a guaranteed job outside of coaching if he gets fired. And after a year or two off, he'd be one of the hottest names in coaching searches every December. He's got it made.

 

[John Lorry]

Fair enough - good points.

There's no doubt facilities, budget, etc. make a huge difference.

 

[FQDawg]

So, what you're saying...

Yes, this is the issue I've raised for consideration. Losing to a program that's been a member of the NCAA for 4 years and that's never finished higher than 5th in the Sun Belt is enough to ask these questions, at least in my view.

is that one disappointing day is enough to undo any goodwill built up by the single best six-year span in school history.

 

[aTotal360]

That logic is fine, but solves nothing unless there are actual values associated with it.

You also have to consider that some jobs are simply "better" than others. If we matched Collins or Diaz, I bet they leave anyway.

 

[was21]

I don't begrudge him that. He has a contract that both parties signed. I don't blame him for signing the contract and don't blame State for signing it either. Things and situations are what they are. We now wait and see what's next

 

[rugbdawg]

It foreshadows a disastrous season. Not a down season but a disastrous one. That's what people are upset about

 

[the dog is on the loose]

I disagree that it's more about producing revenue than winning. After all, isn't the reason we are all so pissed because of a loss? To say we can't get a better coach is asinine. Do I know of one? Certainly not. But for 4mil a year I bet we couldn't do any worse with somebody else. We need a coach with a fire in his belly. I honestly believe mullen's ceiling has been reached. Is the school going to continue with on with him if we start going downhill? I would be willing to bet Byrne wouldn't put up with this very long. Winning and winning only produces revenue. If you don't believe it then watch our money producing attendance drop if we start losing a lot. It ain't rocket science.

 

[John Lorry]

That's true. It's difficult to account for or measure the "reputation premium" (for lack of a better descriptor).

If a coach was given the choice between the HC job at (a) LSU at $3.5mm per year; or (b) Vanderbilt at $4mm, I bet most coaches choose (a).

 

[Joe Schmedlap]

4 million dollars a year is the price of doing business in the SEC West. It's ridiculous, but it's fact.

Is Mullen overpaid right now? Well, based on losing to a damn Sunbelt conference team, I'd have to say, yeah. But you know what? Bielema is overpaid at Arkansas. Sumlin is damn sure overpaid at aTm. The Gus Bus is overpaid at AU. It's 17'd up, and it's all the Nick Saban trickle down effect.