Simulated 4A tournament of champions

TVILLEDAWG2370

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Just for fun I simulated games between the past 32 state championship teams,and here's how it played out.

Round-1 Games
2013Dudley-37,2011Scotland Co-34 OT
2012New Bern-48,2001Independence-43
2006Independence-30,2012Butler-17
2005Independence-55,2013Mallard Creek-15
1999AC Reynolds-26,2002Independence-3
2010Butler-44,2007Hoggard-10
2009Butler-21,2002AC Reynolds-0
2008Fayetteville 71st-40,2011Page-14
2004Independence-55,2009AC Reynolds-21
2010Hillside-24,2004JH Rose-16
2014New Bern-31,2003JH Rose-21
2005JH Rose-28,2008Richmond Co.-3
2007New Bern-6,1996Crest-3
2003Independence-38,1998Richmond Co.-10
2006JH Rose-34,2000Independence-7
1997Richmond Co.-40,2014Mallard Creek-14

Sweet-16 Games
2012New Bern-27,2013Dudley-24
2006Independence-21,2005Independence-17
2010Butler-13,1999AC Reynolds-3
2008Fayetteville 71st-23,2009Butler-21
2010Hillside-14,2004Independence-0
2005JH Rose-31,2014New Bern-28
2003Independence-37,2007New Bern-34
2006JH Rose-41,1997Richmond Co.-9

Elite-8 Games
2006Independence-21,2012New Bern-14
2010Butler-19,2008Fayetteville 71st-14
2005JH Rose-17,2010Hillside-10
2006JH Rose-43,2003Independence-0

Final-4 Games
2010Butler-24,2006Independence-17
2005JH Rose-37,2006JH Rose-13

Championship Game
2010Butler-43,2005JH Rose-35
 

btango

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I know this is for fun and not sure how this is being projected but there are some absolutely crazy and to me ridiculous scores, if not just the winners, here.


This post was edited on 2/15 12:09 AM by btango
 

BlueandGold34

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Not sure which one I would have liked to see more.

The team that scored 55 on 2013 Mallard Creek or the team that shut out 2004 Indy. LMAO
 

btango

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I have seen every 4A title game from 1987-2001. Every 4AA played and almost every 4A title game since 2002. Have seen every 4A or 4AA state champion play at least once the season they won the title.

2013 Dudley-37,2011 Scotland Co-34 OT Agree. Great game may be higher point spread.
2012 New Bern-48,2001 Independence-43 Indy by at least a couple of TDs minimum.
2006 Independence-30,2012 Butler-17 Butler by a couple of TDs minimum.
2005 Independence-55,2013 Mallard Creek-15 Mallard Creek by a couple of TDs minimum.
1999 AC Reynolds-26,2002 Independence-3 Indy just flip the score around.
2010 Butler-44,2007 Hoggard-10 Agree. Much closer game.
2009 Butler-21,2002 AC Reynolds-0 Agree. More points by each team.
2008 Fayetteville 71st-40,2011 Page-14 Page just flip the score around.
2004 Independence-55,2009 AC Reynolds-21 Agree.
2010 Hillside-24,2004 JH Rose-16 Hillside by much wider margin.
2014 New Bern-31,2003 JH Rose-21 Agree.
2005 JH Rose-28,2008 Richmond Co.-3 Richmond team of week 17 wins by a few TDs.
2007 New Bern-6,1996 Crest-3 Crest wins tight game. Toughest one to call.
2003 Independence-38,1998 Richmond Co.-10 Agree but it is a two TD game maximum.
2006 JH Rose-34,2000 Independence-7 Indy in a close game.
1997 Richmond Co.-40,2014 Mallard Creek-14 Agree but very tight game Mallard Creek week 17 team.

This post was edited on 2/15 3:02 AM by btango
 

btango

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Really?!?

2006 Independence-30,2012 Butler-17

1999 AC Reynolds-26,2002 Independence-3

2008 Fayetteville 71st-40,2011 Page-14

2005 JH Rose-28,2008 Richmond Co.-3 The scoring differential.

2003 Independence-38,1998 Richmond Co.-10. The scoring differential.

2006 JH Rose-34,2000 Independence-7. The scoring differential.

1997 Richmond Co.-40,2014 Mallard Creek-14. The scoring differential.

Sweet-16 Games

2008 Fayetteville 71st-23,2009 Butler-21

2010 Hillside-14,2004 Independence-0. Best team I have seen in NC.

2006 JH Rose-41,1997 Richmond Co.-9

Elite-8 Games

2006 JH Rose-43,2003 Independence-0. If you flipped the score I might believe it.

Final-4 Games

2005JH Rose-37,2006JH Rose-13. Input from Rose fans. It would be closer. 2006 played better comp.

Championship Game
2010Butler-43,2005JH Rose-35. 2010 Butler is a few scores minimum behind 2012 Butler.
 

raiderLAW

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Jul 20, 2002
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Originally posted by UNCGrad2014:
Indy 2004 could've beat some D1 teams. I'd take them to win it all in this simulation.
yet another laugh...are you high?!....or do you have a degree from the Afro-American Studies department?...either would make sense!!
 

dcov33

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Nov 10, 2005
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I have to chime in on this ridiculously topic.

@Btango "Really"2003 Independence-38,1998 Richmond Co.-10 Agree but it is a two TD game maximum.
Is this the same 2003 team that should have lost to the Richmond 2003 in the Western Final. Do you really think that offense would only score 10pts led by 3 1,000 yard running backs….. Waddell, Ellerbe, and Green.
 

dcov33

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Nov 10, 2005
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2006 JH Rose-41,1997 Richmond Co.-9 "WOW" a full strength 1997 Richmond team would never come close of giving up 41 points to any of those state title teams.



TOP 10 but not in order.

2013 Mallard Creek (Well balance Team)
2002 Independence (Led by Leak nuff said)
1998 Richmond Sr. (Led by Mike Waddell case close)
1996 Shelby Crest (2-3 deep at every position)
2011 Scotland County (One of the most dangerous teams and well coach) A well oiled machine!
2012 Butler (a very big and athletic team).
1997 Richmond Sr. (Super-stud Defense, Awesome Special teams, probably the biggest and fastest defense; several D1 recruits on defense).
2013 Dudley (Very good defense team, go ask Scotland.
2010 Butler ( Very good team with a Sophomore starting at QB, but I think the 09 team was better.
2004 Independence (Mohamed Jah Massaquoi Speechless).
 

hokiemtc

Junior
Mar 29, 2002
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2010 was the best of the Butler teams, with 7 future BCS recruits on the roster (Stewart - Texas Tech, Frost - Auburn, Hibbard - UNC, Ferguson - Tennessee, Kalambayi - Stanford, U. LeMay - Georgia, Stribbling - Michigan) and 27 future college players in total:

1) Austin Stewart - Texas Tech
2) Kris Frost - Auburn
3) Ozzy Sombo - Charleston Southern
4) Deion Walker - NC Tech
5) David Moore - Ball St
6) Tommy Hibbard - UNC
7) Riley Ferguson - Tennessee
8) Zach Ferguson - Lenoir-Rhyne
9) Mark Bridges - Coastal Carolina
10) Josh Glisson - W-S State
11) Malachi Hanes - Catawba
12) Jahwan Edwards - Ball St (all-time leading rusher)
13) Sean Wiggins - Ball St
14) Peter Kalambayi - Stanford
15) Stephen Amoah - Lenoir-Rhyne
16) Grant Polofsky - Davidson
17) Chad Garrett - Marshall
18) Uriah LeMay - Georgia
19) Channing Stribbling - Michigan
20) Colin Parsons - Citadel
21) Kam Billings - Limestone
22) Dominique Brewer - Ferrum
23) Nick Sansotta - Appalachian St
24) Joey Moody - Concord
25) Michael Boykin - Mars Hill
26) Spencer Kendall - Averett
27) Darren Dubose - Mars Hill

This list does not include Elite 11 participant Christian LeMay (#3 rated dropback passer in the country - committed to Georgia) who DQ'ed himself before the season even started. It's hard to imagine how good this team would've been if LeMay had stayed eligible for his Senior year. Even so, the 2010 Bulldogs steamrolled the entire state, and was one of the most ridiculously loaded football teams in state history.
 

btango

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Several of those players were sophomores that played big roles on the 2012 Butler team.

I have always thought 2012 was much better than 2010.
 

hokiemtc

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Originally posted by btango:
I have always thought 2012 was much better than 2010.
Statistically, 2012 had the best defense in school history, but the 2010 defense was close behind them at #2. 2012 was slightly bigger at linebacker and much bigger at one corner, but 2010 was much bigger at safety and much, MUCH bigger along the dline.

I don't think there was much contest with the other two units. The 2012 offense was their own worst enemy with penalties and ejections, especially in the playoffs, whereas the 2010 offense was slightly more conservative, but did very little to beat themselves. Statistically, the two offenses ended up being nearly identical, but the 2010 unit had a 230 pound sledgehammer at RB that I think gave them the edge. If you needed a home run ball for a quick score, then the 2012 unit wins. However, if you wanted to play error-free, solid football and grind down the other team into powder and make them want to quit playing football altogether, then the 2010 unit wins. Mallard Creek 2013 actually seemed to me like I was looking at the 2010 Butler offense in the mirror. Very similar styles and results.

And let's not even talk about special teams. The 2010 special teams were amongst the best in the state in all aspects, whereas the 2012 special teams were tragically, ridiculously poor. The 2012 team went the entire season and never even figured out how to kick an extra point. Stribbling had a few return TDs to mask the ugliness, but it still wasn't as many TDs as Brewer had in 2010, and the 2010 team backed Brewer up with the best punters and kickers in the state. Again...much like Mallard Creek in 2013. The 2010 team had no weaknesses of any kind, and beat everyone they played in all three phases of the game for complete domination victories. The 2012 team, on the other hand, put up a defensive masterpiece - one for the ages...but the rest of the team wasn't nearly as clean and as polished as the defense was.
 

hokiemtc

Junior
Mar 29, 2002
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Originally posted by nepsy7:
Hockie were all those guys on the same team? Damn!
When the history books are written, 2010 will be our zenith year, like 2004 was for Indy. That perfect storm year when everything in the world just came together into an otherworldly, dominant, unstoppable force. And just like at Indy, Butler would still be good enough to go on and win at least one more title...but things would just never quite ever got back to that peak level again. Coaching defections, talent pool ebbs and flows...things just changed over time and it never had quite that same feel again.

Just IMHO...MC 2013 possibly had that same look about them. Time will tell on that one, but in watching that team play, I felt all season long like I'd seen that movie before. The 2011 MC team had just as much (if not more) talent, but they never had that perfect storm look and feel about them like the 2013 team had. Or like the 2010 Butler team had. Or like the 2004 Indy team had. Scotland and Page both had that same look about them in 2011 as well. But like I said, time will tell.
 

dcov33

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Nov 10, 2005
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Give me Butler 09 offense and 2010 Defense. The big back was good but the kid that got into trouble that got into a car accident was a game changer; he could turn a game around real fast and in a hurry!
 

btango

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I thought the 2010 team had a tendency to go to sleep on D. Ferguson was very timid at times although you could see his overwhelming potential. They had three super easy games against East Meck, Rocky River, and Indy due to the redistricting. Overall just did not think they had as good a team. Edwards made a lot of his yards on his own. Very underrated player and super kid. Losing Deion Walker, a player I thought was a definite FBS player did not slow them down too much. Riley Ferguson, Peter Kalambayi, Channing Stribbling, Uriah Lemay, Sean Wiggins, David Moore, Grant Polofsky, Josh Glisson, Malachi Hanes were all sophmores that were big time performers on the 2012 team. I am sure Chad Garrett was a freshman that season.

Thought 2012 played with something to prove and strong senior leadership. Ferguson injured his hand at the Elite 11 and another injury kept him out several games but not sure if he were ever 100% that season. No one pushed 2012 except for East Forsyth and I thought the staff got to conservative thinking about Page from 2011. Granted East was a real good team, with huge size, and only one close game. Thought the front seven and O Line were better. D backs were strong but Hanes went down with an injury before the stretch run.
 

BlueandGold34

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Only thing I would add is the difference between 2010 Riley, Lemay, Stribling and the 2012 version was a pretty big one. 2010 was Edwards offense and Riley was more of a pre-snap read and throw to pre-determined receiver QB. By 2012 the little game within the game that went on with him and Lemay was fun to watch. Subtle adjustments, hand gestures. That was a very good 2012 Mallard creek defense that had 6 or 7 D1 guys on it and they carved it up pretty nicely. Hard to believe how much talent that 2010 team had on defense.
 

btango

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Originally posted by dcov33:
I have to chime in on this ridiculously topic.

@Btango "Really"2003 Independence-38,1998 Richmond Co.-10 Agree but it is a two TD game maximum.
Is this the same 2003 team that should have lost to the Richmond 2003 in the Western Final. Do you really think that offense would only score 10pts led by 3 1,000 yard running backs….. Waddell, Ellerbe, and Green.
If you read each of the games in my posts you will see when I write "Agree" that means I agree with who won. Indy would win but closer score and Richmond scores more points. West Charlotte held that Richmond team to 14 and 22.

2003 game where Indy is up by two scores with the ball at midfield in the first half moving the ball and Joe Cox takes a vicious head shot to the back from Dannell Ellerbe after he released the ball on a pass. He was basically obsolete the remainder of the game severely hindering the Indy O.
 

reynoldsrocks

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Aug 19, 2001
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Not a lot of respect for the 1999 AC Reynolds team, stopped Richmond Co 44 game home winning streak (which was led by Michael Waddell), shut out 9 opponents including a top TX team, 3 teams in the playoffs, and gave up 5.1 points a game. Very good team!
 

Wiseman83

Sophomore
Feb 21, 2015
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I think 2012 was a better butler team than the 2010, although 2010 was also very dominant.

You have to remember that 2010 had a couple close games against Mt. Tabor, and only beating Hibriten by 7 points. The 2012 team had every game won by basically half-time except for the East Forsyth game which was a game in which the staff was very conservative and the players seemed to play very tight with page 2011 in everyones mind. The 2010 team definitely had more depth than the 2012 team but half of those kids that Hokie listed on that impressive college list barley saw the field in 2010 so they did no good anyways. In fact many of them, including 6-2 Kam Billings, 6-2 Channing Strib, Malachai Hanes, Chad Garrett and many more were forced to also play JV even though they could have started on Varsity on many teams that year in the Mecklenburg County. 2012 was a whole lot more explosive and even though it is sad to say, the special team's lows did not even matter. Does anyone remember the hype that Vance had in 2012 after they beat indy 35-0? People were calling Vance to beat butler the next week on a different site...it was 31-0 at the half against a very talented Vance team that had Larenz Bryant. At the end of the day the 2012 team was just nasty and had the game won before the game was even started. Won't say any names but I talked to indy players in 2012 that wanted no part of butler they said, and weren't looking forward to rivalry week that season which is odd for that special rivalry. And the players that stated that were some big time players on that team that play college ball.

I do agree with Hokie on the 2010 butler/ 2013 MC comparison. They are self reflections of each other with really good defenses, sophomore QBs, and unstoppable running games.

A position breakdown in my opinion of Butler 2012 vs Butler 2010

QB- 2012. No comparison. Riley in 2010 was very nervous looking taking over for Lemay at times. He rode a good running attack and defense. In 2012, he was shredding even defense with ease. Picking everyone apart.

RB- 2010. Edwards and Walker (before the accident) were very productive. Walker was averaging 19 yards every time he touched the ball before he was kicked off the team. Edwards was a big body that HS kids simply couldn't tackle. He is now at the NFL combine this week. Good Luck to him. In 2012 we had Glisson and Benny Lemay as a freshman. Glisson was a load and was very talented. If he had the grades, I think he could have played at the D1 level, he eventually went to WSSU and played very good as a freshman but once again his grades got to him again and now he is not in school last I heard. Very talented back that had all the tools.

OL- 2012. They were a mean group. Joey Moody I remember wouldn't stop blocking until he heard the 3rd whistle lol. 2010 was very undersized and Edwards made a lot out of nothing because he was simply too big to tackle.

WR- 2012. Lemay, Billings, Stribling, Harrison, Ratliff-Williams were all at least 6-2 and FAST. I do like Zach Ferg and Kris Frost but they weren't on the level of 2012.

DL- 2010. I just like their group as they were a load and very complete with Parsons, polofsky and the others.

LB- 2012. This is not even close and they are the best group I have ever seen at the HS level. They were a NFL sized linebacker group in that 3-4 defense. Out of the 4 starters, 3 of them are playing D1 football right now. Stewart (Louisville), Kalambayi (Stanford), Wiggins (Ball st.). The lone star that isn't on a college roster, 6-3 230 Corwin White, was kicked off the team in the middle of conference play and was sent to alternative school for the rest of the fall semester I believe. He would have signed somewhere if he didn't have off the field problems. Kris Frost was very good in 2010 and now starts at Auburn.

CB- 2012. 6-2 Strib was shut down on one side and Moore on the other side benefited by racking up interceptions since nobody tested Stribling. Strib is at Michigan now and Moore is at Ball st. Not many HS teams have a D1 corner on each side. in 2010 Bridges and Brewer were really good but weren't elite as a group as Strib and Dave Moore.

Safety- 2010. The reason 2010 is better than 2012 is for one simple reason, and his name is AUSTIN STEWART. That guy was a straight baller. If he was at butler all 4 years he would have signed to a SEC team. He is now at Texas Tech. The other safety in 2010, Mal Jenkins was a weak link in the defense that was never exposed that season. He was exposed his senior year in 2011 in week 1 against MC. He was benched after that game by Shaugnessy. In 2012 Hanes who played in week 1, the indy game, and all of the playoffs was solid and so was Todjeri Graham. But they were no where on the level of Stewart and his coverage range.

Special teams- 2010.

2012 simply dominated every team. Just think about how dominant 2012 MC was excluding the 2 butler games, then take a loos at the 2 butler games. 2010 was better than 2009 and is in a toss up with 2013 MC. You can make a argument for 2013 MC or 2010 Butler. 2012 Butler was better than both of them and is the best team in Meck county history outside of that Joe Cox indy team his senior year in 2004.

Also the 2012 butler team was NEVER healthy and never missed a beat. RF with a thumb injury and broke his hand missing a couple weeks, Polofsky tore his ACL in the indy season finale, Corwin White was kicked off, Gross broke his arm, Lemay was suspended for 2 games for getting ejected, Stribling missed most of the state championship game, so they put in a freshman in Clifton Duck who was 5-8 at the time, and he locked down a 6-3 WR who was committed to NC State, Malachi Hanes missed 8 games with a kidney problem, the starting Center Mike Mcaughtry played the whole playoffs with a torn knee ligament which I though was unbelievable. This team was beat the hell up and most teams would have folded up and went home, instead all they did was continue to dominate.







This post was edited on 2/22 3:30 AM by Wiseman83
 

btango

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Originally posted by reynoldsrocks:
Not a lot of respect for the 1999 AC Reynolds team, stopped Richmond Co 44 game home winning streak (which was led by Michael Waddell), shut out 9 opponents including a top TX team, 3 teams in the playoffs, and gave up 5.1 points a game. Very good team!
No doubt ACR was an excellent squad and coached by one of the best ever to roam the sidelines in NC. I think the changes in the game with the advent of the passing teams starting with Indy would have caused ACR a lot of problems.

The Texas team ACR beat was Denison. They were 5-5 in 1999 when they lost to ACR. They had a strong run in the 1990's losing in two state 4A (5A largest class) title games including a few years before 1999 but dropped off rapidly and did not have double digit wins again until 2008.
 

btango

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Wiseman, was Deion Walker kicked off the team or was that a personal decision? For some reason I think Edwards or someone wore his jersey in the state title game. Not sure.

Also, was Walker not exonerated in the wreck that killed the motorcyclist? I was thinking that charges were dropped or found not guilty. He was a D1A player in my book but do not think he ever went to college.
 

Wiseman83

Sophomore
Feb 21, 2015
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From what I heard, which may not be factual because no one really knows besides Walker and the butler staff, he was basically given the option of him leaving on his own terms (quitting), or him being dismissed off the team. Jahwan wore his #6 jersey the following week against indy. Many that watched butler that season thought maybe Deion was the better back out of the two. He was averaging 19 yards every time he touched the ball! Walker never went to college even though he had offers from Illinois, marshall, and had lots of interest building up. On the other hand Edwards went D1 and is now at the NFL combine this week. Crazy how one night can change your life like that.
 

raiderLAW

Redshirt
Jul 20, 2002
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Originally posted by reynoldsrocks:
Not a lot of respect for the 1999 AC Reynolds team, stopped Richmond Co 44 game home winning streak (which was led by Michael Waddell), shut out 9 opponents including a top TX team, 3 teams in the playoffs, and gave up 5.1 points a game. Very good team!
Waddell did not play on the 1999 Richmond team....the 99 team was vastly different then the 97, 98 title teams....
 

reynoldsrocks

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Aug 19, 2001
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Then who was the really short fast RB they had that year, I swear I thouggt it was Waddell. What was their running backs name in 1999?

This post was edited on 2/22 1:57 PM by reynoldsrocks
 

btango

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Waddell was part of a strong senior football class in 1998. Richmond 1999 did not lose until the ACR game but definitely not on par with the previous two years. Think they won five or six games by less than two TDs.
 

raiderstud

Junior
Dec 21, 2001
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My guess is that would be Michael Greene...That was one tough little rascal....Small, but lightning quick and extremely solid built.....I'm thinking he broke his ankle in 98, but came back to be the lead run back of the 99 team...Think that score was 13-10 loss to Asheville, on the fake field goal call by Poss ...Was that Barnes last year at Richmond , then came Emory...nuff said..
 

raiderstud

Junior
Dec 21, 2001
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Originally posted by btango:
Waddell was part of a strong senior football class in 1998. Richmond 1999 did not lose until the ACR game but definitely not on par with the previous two years. Think they won five or six games by less than two TDs.
Better check those records B....Only regular season game really close was the Anson County game 29-21 , I think.......Close playoff game was the 3 overtime game with Crest 53-52, in the 3rd round.......I'm thinking Michael Greene scored the 2 pt conversion on the 3rd overtime to win the game....I agree with you , the 99 team could not keep up with the 97 and 98 teams....nuff said..
 

btango

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Originally posted by raiderstud:
Originally posted by btango:
Waddell was part of a strong senior football class in 1998. Richmond 1999 did not lose until the ACR game but definitely not on par with the previous two years. Think they won five or six games by less than two TDs.
Better check those records B....Only regular season game really close was the Anson County game 29-21 , I think.......Close playoff game was the 3 overtime game with Crest 53-52, in the 3rd round.......I'm thinking Michael Greene scored the 2 pt conversion on the 3rd overtime to win the game....I agree with you , the 99 team could not keep up with the 97 and 98 teams....nuff said..
Michael Greene would be my guess also. Think he put up big numbers in 1999.

I exaggerated the number a bit, should have looked it up first. My apology. They did have several fairly close games per the previous couple of years standards. 71st by 19, Myers Park 9, Scotland 21, Anson 8, Crest 1, and Butler 15. With New Bern, MP, and 71st that was a nice non conference schedule.
 

raiderstud

Junior
Dec 21, 2001
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Good job B....Thanks for all you do for High School Football in NC......That 97 Defense was off the charts.....nuff said....
 

reynoldsrocks

Redshirt
Aug 19, 2001
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Michael Greene sounds right, I knew it was a Michael, just thought it was Waddell because I remember that name.
 

dcov33

Junior
Nov 10, 2005
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It was Green. In 1998 he was 175 lbs 4.3 forty speed but after the broken ankle he was 210 lbs and a 4.7 forty, he never gained his speed back or shiftiness back that he work so hard for throughout the years……

@Btango
I respect you a lot and a lot of times you are 99.9% accurate but I do not believe in my heart that the 98 raider team will lose to the Big I '03 Squad.

2003 game where Indy is up by two scores with the ball at midfield in the first half moving the ball and Joe Cox takes a vicious head shot to the back from Dannell Ellerbe after he released the ball on a pass. He was basically obsolete the remainder of the game severely hindering the Indy O.

That is the nature of the Beast, he lucky Dannell Ellerbe was the one that hit him, because if it would have been Marcus Ellerbe or Aaron Sykes from the 98 squad it would have probably ended his career. Remember the big adjustment in that game was UGA recruit for Richmond was switch from QB to WR and that was really the Big Change in that game if you guys can remember that far back.

Also D. Barnes Record against Tommy Knotts is 4-1 or 5-1………….


Also its all about Matchups in 99 if ACReynolds plays Crest or a passing team they would have not won the title that year go ask Asheville High 3A team year.
 

btango

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Barnes 4-0 over WC and Knotts.
1997: RC 28-14 / 27-26
1998: RC 14-0 / 22-12

Barnes 0-1 against Indy and Knotts.
2000: Indy 36-10