Since 4 of the last 5 seasons..
- Thread starter Coach34
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Can't risk switching coaches that late in the recruiting process with the in state recruits. His do or die moment will be signing day with next years seniors. We get them and he's got two years to do something with them. There's just too much talent at stake to gamble on an unknown when what we have seems to be their 1st choice.
Many basketball recruits will sign in the fall period. It would be nice to get a couple of the fab five or six to sign early. From reading it sounds like Smith and Adams might be the most likely to sign with us????
and then doesnt make the Tourney? If they don't sign in the Fall or just a couple sign, and then we underachieve aGAIN, it's going to make getting the others that much harder...so, what's the cutoff? When does the Spring signing period end?
Watching him underachieve with more recruits seems like we are wasting more time...
Watching him underachieve with more recruits seems like we are wasting more time...
What if he signs 4? I already said his do or die moment would be how he did with them. We made our bed when we hired a recruiter as head coach hoping he would learn on the job, we gotta lay in it . Now he's got one last shot at a talented group he has no excuse to miss out on. He might put together another team like 04. If he hangs himself with the rope given to him, then hey we gave him every chance to succeed.
Most of those Fab 5 guys are three stars. I know the star system is hardly foolproof, and I know that they may not have been "evaluated" in a long time.
What I'm getting at is it may not be worth keeping Stansbury around to get a bunch of average players. Maybe I don't realize how good these guys are because I am no basketball guru. But judging by their stars, most of them look average except for O'Bryant.
What I'm getting at is it may not be worth keeping Stansbury around to get a bunch of average players. Maybe I don't realize how good these guys are because I am no basketball guru. But judging by their stars, most of them look average except for O'Bryant.
3 more years would be about the dumbest thing we could do...very Jackie-esque
Byrne has made 2 exciting hires so far, whatever recruits we have will most likely stay for the exciting hire he makes for basketball. Keeping a failing coach for a couple of recruits he MIGHT get is ridiculous...and if they are as big-time as they are supposed to be, it won't be long before Kentucky and the other guys get them- there will be at least 1 or 2 Hopson/Newton situations with them
Byrne has made 2 exciting hires so far, whatever recruits we have will most likely stay for the exciting hire he makes for basketball. Keeping a failing coach for a couple of recruits he MIGHT get is ridiculous...and if they are as big-time as they are supposed to be, it won't be long before Kentucky and the other guys get them- there will be at least 1 or 2 Hopson/Newton situations with them
Stansbury is a pretty damn good recruiter. That is why we are an average team/above average sec team each year... Not because he can coach. I'm not voting, b/c I don't know what I think about that right now.
As of right now scout has O'bryant, Hood, Adams, and Smith all in the top 25 nationally for class of '11.
http://hsmississippi.scou...7&p=9&cfg=bb&c=4&yr=2011
http://hsmississippi.scou...7&p=9&cfg=bb&c=4&yr=2011
Not because I know anything about him, but because I would love to hear that name roll off of Jack's tongue.
1. DeVille Smith from Callaway
2. Rodney Hood from Meridian. (It would be ironic if he were from Lanier)
3. Johnny O'Bryant from Cleveland
4. Tyler Adams from Brandon
Then the fifth one is arbitrarily between:
DeAntwan Luckett from Ridgeland, who looks like a sixth man to me.
Snoop White from McComb.
Micheal Ammons from Vicksburg, who is allegedly going out of state.
All of these are gleaned from Bulldawgjunction.com.
2. Rodney Hood from Meridian. (It would be ironic if he were from Lanier)
3. Johnny O'Bryant from Cleveland
4. Tyler Adams from Brandon
Then the fifth one is arbitrarily between:
DeAntwan Luckett from Ridgeland, who looks like a sixth man to me.
Snoop White from McComb.
Micheal Ammons from Vicksburg, who is allegedly going out of state.
All of these are gleaned from Bulldawgjunction.com.
Only someone that has the intent to deliberately sabotage the basketball program would fire him before signing day for possibly the best class of players the state has produced in quite some time.
Also, choosing to use the last 5 years for your argument is selecting the time frame to paint us in the worst light. What about the four consecutive tourneys we went to before that and the 5 seed, 3 seed, and 2 seed we got? Why not narrow it down to the last 3 years, in which we made 2 out3 and it took an absolute miracle AND officiating nightmare for us not to get in. Basically, we're talking about firing a guy that has essentially deserved to get in the last 3 NCAA tourneys, which is 10x harder than making a bowl game.
I'd wait until he actually had two losing seasons in a row in conference play before I made a move, and I still might not make it then if we bring in 4 of the top 6 players in the 2011 class. If he brings in 4-5 top notch guys that have to start in 2011-12, it's unrealistic to expect them to be a great team right away much like UNC is having growing pains w/ a young but talented team now
Also, choosing to use the last 5 years for your argument is selecting the time frame to paint us in the worst light. What about the four consecutive tourneys we went to before that and the 5 seed, 3 seed, and 2 seed we got? Why not narrow it down to the last 3 years, in which we made 2 out3 and it took an absolute miracle AND officiating nightmare for us not to get in. Basically, we're talking about firing a guy that has essentially deserved to get in the last 3 NCAA tourneys, which is 10x harder than making a bowl game.
I'd wait until he actually had two losing seasons in a row in conference play before I made a move, and I still might not make it then if we bring in 4 of the top 6 players in the 2011 class. If he brings in 4-5 top notch guys that have to start in 2011-12, it's unrealistic to expect them to be a great team right away much like UNC is having growing pains w/ a young but talented team now
1. Firing him for missing the Tourney aGAIN would be helping the program- not sabotaging it
2. Choosing the last 5 years is the most relevant to his employment. 2004 is over and it's never coming back. Time to move on and judge him on recent performance. 1 SEC Title does not give you a lifetime pass
3. We have not deserved to be in the Tourney the last 3 years. We have only deserved it ONCE the last 3 years- we stole a berth last year from a deserving team
4. According to their rankings, we wouldn't even have a top 10 class if we signed all 5 of them.Some of you are acting like we are recruiting five 5-star players
5. Should we get all 5, why let him screw them up, underachieve, and then watch a couple of them transfer out like we have the 5 years? That's assinine
2. Choosing the last 5 years is the most relevant to his employment. 2004 is over and it's never coming back. Time to move on and judge him on recent performance. 1 SEC Title does not give you a lifetime pass
3. We have not deserved to be in the Tourney the last 3 years. We have only deserved it ONCE the last 3 years- we stole a berth last year from a deserving team
4. According to their rankings, we wouldn't even have a top 10 class if we signed all 5 of them.Some of you are acting like we are recruiting five 5-star players
5. Should we get all 5, why let him screw them up, underachieve, and then watch a couple of them transfer out like we have the 5 years? That's assinine
#3 and #5 i gotta disagree with.Coach34 said:
#5 only partly so...players have developed underStans, yes it has happened. Its taken me awhile to finally admit such, so i dont expect you tocome to terms for another few years.
As for players leaving, yes its an issue for the program, but only because wedont have equalplayers to replace em. Players leave from all sorts of programs in all conferences. Really damn good players leave all the time. It happens in current CBB, it just really sucks for us because it recently wasnt scubs but instead starters.
#3 though, thats just total ****. Saying we stole a berth? We won the damn conference tournament! Yeah we wouldnt have been in without winning it, but neither would 20 other teams in the tournament. Wegot in exactly the same way about 1/3 of theother tournament teams got in.Nothing was stolen, they earned thatautobid.
So let's say that he has a majority of these players locked up, then we fire him and they either don't sign, don't come here, want out of their LOI, whatever. That's taking a chance on costing yourself a class that might be a program changer.
How that doesn't make sense to you is baffling. Nevermind, it's not
2. The last 3 years is a more accurate judge of our recent play, and we've won our way into the tourney twice, and everyone on here that is an actual MSU fan realizes that it was complete ******** for us to be left out this year. So actually, the two year down period where we went to consecutive NIT's is an abberation in the general big picture b/c we've been to 6 of the last 9 tourneys, should be 7 of 9 and 3 in a row. We've only had 1 "bad" team in 9 years
5. Who's to say he's going to screw them up? Stans has never had an NBA level player, the only ones that have been remotely close (Roberts, Austin, Bowers, etc...) have been college superstars, having much better careers than many of their peers that actually did have NBA talent. Hell, players like Stewart that didn't even have a DI offer have turned into very good players. No one knows what Stans could do w/ elite level talent, he went 26-4 w/ a team without a single NBA player so it stands to reason that he could replicate that w/ the likes of the 2011 class
How that doesn't make sense to you is baffling. Nevermind, it's not
2. The last 3 years is a more accurate judge of our recent play, and we've won our way into the tourney twice, and everyone on here that is an actual MSU fan realizes that it was complete ******** for us to be left out this year. So actually, the two year down period where we went to consecutive NIT's is an abberation in the general big picture b/c we've been to 6 of the last 9 tourneys, should be 7 of 9 and 3 in a row. We've only had 1 "bad" team in 9 years
5. Who's to say he's going to screw them up? Stans has never had an NBA level player, the only ones that have been remotely close (Roberts, Austin, Bowers, etc...) have been college superstars, having much better careers than many of their peers that actually did have NBA talent. Hell, players like Stewart that didn't even have a DI offer have turned into very good players. No one knows what Stans could do w/ elite level talent, he went 26-4 w/ a team without a single NBA player so it stands to reason that he could replicate that w/ the likes of the 2011 class
about stansbury developing players. Jarvis is the only player i can think of that has gotten better in the 4 years he played here. he does not develop players at all. about the only thing stansbury does decently is recruit. but there is a lot more to coaching and winning than recruiting.
frazier, zimmerman, bowers, austin, robert jackson even (though i wouldn't consider that a success story), rhodes. lots of players have been developed. some of those i listed i'm sure y'all would disagree with but there are others up for debate who i didn't list
Rhodes, Stewart,Zimmerman, Frazier, Bowers, Jarvis, Turner, Gordon, Austin,Bailey, Ravern Johnsonand more have developed. They have developed to varying degrees, but all developed. All improved thru the years at MSU. How much of that was the coaches and how much was natural talent?...who knows, id guess it would vary for each player. Whether it was improved scoring, improved defense, improved hustle, improved mechanics, or a combination of those...they all developed while at MSU.vegasdawg said:
Benock, Campbell,Wes, Goodridge and more didnt develop. For one reason or anothertheyended right about where they were when theycame in.
There are success stories and there are failures. If you at all follow more than just MSU, you will see that any program worth a damn has this same result;some improve and some stay the same.
rhodes and jamont were great players from highschool that didnt develop any further. if they would have been under better coaching staffs that could have gotten them to play hard in every practice and game they most likely would have been 1st round draft picks.
stewart's defense has gotten better and he now shoots that elbow jumper, but he's still strictly a shooter whose best 3 point, field goal, and free throw percentages came in his freshman year.
turner has not gotten any better, unless you count the ability to make extremely long 3's occasionally.
ravern was a scorer coming out of highschool still is, he can shoot from anywhere. but still has no defense and cant dribble and has maybe put on 1 pound since he got here.
bailey we dont know about yet because he has been hurt for a year.
i dont really remember zimmerman, frazier, bowers, or austin, in their early years on campus. so lets say they did improve a lot over their years here. ok thats 5 players (zimm, frazier, bowers, austin, and jarvis) that have gotten better in the their 4 years under stansbury out of how many players stansbury has coached? and 4 of those players graduated 6+ years ago.
edit to add: sorry messed up barry's stats, his best free throw percentage actually came his junior year, which was 1% higher than his freshman year. 76% frosh year and 77% junior year
stewart's defense has gotten better and he now shoots that elbow jumper, but he's still strictly a shooter whose best 3 point, field goal, and free throw percentages came in his freshman year.
turner has not gotten any better, unless you count the ability to make extremely long 3's occasionally.
ravern was a scorer coming out of highschool still is, he can shoot from anywhere. but still has no defense and cant dribble and has maybe put on 1 pound since he got here.
bailey we dont know about yet because he has been hurt for a year.
i dont really remember zimmerman, frazier, bowers, or austin, in their early years on campus. so lets say they did improve a lot over their years here. ok thats 5 players (zimm, frazier, bowers, austin, and jarvis) that have gotten better in the their 4 years under stansbury out of how many players stansbury has coached? and 4 of those players graduated 6+ years ago.
edit to add: sorry messed up barry's stats, his best free throw percentage actually came his junior year, which was 1% higher than his freshman year. 76% frosh year and 77% junior year
You "can't remember" the early years of Zimmerman and Bowers? Are you 13 years old?
Maybe you don't need to be posting on the subject. Saying a player like Rhodes didn't develop is asinine. He basically played like Kodi when he came in and stood behind the 3 pt line, and by the time he left he was a dominant low post scorer w/ a lot more variety than he came in with.
Maybe you don't need to be posting on the subject. Saying a player like Rhodes didn't develop is asinine. He basically played like Kodi when he came in and stood behind the 3 pt line, and by the time he left he was a dominant low post scorer w/ a lot more variety than he came in with.
Stans has been around long enough for everybody to know what we're getting for him. There is no sense in any kind of ultimatum or wait-and-see approach. We've seen it. We know what's there.Coach34 said:
The only question to ask is whether or not this is good enough.
im sorry i dont spend every waking moment studying msu sports history, im sorry i cant remember exactly how well a player played his freshman and sophomore year, 10 years ago!
and rhodes was always good down low when he wanted to be, i guess its "good coaching" when you convince a low post player to play in the low post. in highschool he was dominate wherever he wanted to play, so when he came in his freshman year he played like he did in highschool. when he got used to the college game he moved away from the 3 point line and back down low. but his best asset was his shooting, that fade away baseline shot was his best shot.
and rhodes was always good down low when he wanted to be, i guess its "good coaching" when you convince a low post player to play in the low post. in highschool he was dominate wherever he wanted to play, so when he came in his freshman year he played like he did in highschool. when he got used to the college game he moved away from the 3 point line and back down low. but his best asset was his shooting, that fade away baseline shot was his best shot.
<span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: italic;"></span></span></span></span>I agree, and if you think that winning the west 2 maybe 3 out of every 5 years or so, an SEC tourny win twice in 12 years, then making the big dance every 2-3 years or so then losing in the 1st or 2cd round, is good enough then i guess stansbury is the perfect coach.FlabLoser said:
but if you ever want our basketball team to improve in the sec and nationally and maybe reach the sweet 16 then stansbury is not that coach.
I think Stans improves more than he doesn't.. probably 60% and considering we take on a significant number of "projects" I think that is decent. I can't think of any players that we have signed that when they left I thought ..."man they were really good and now they suck"..
you can tout Kodi as an example but you have no idea how good he was before, he was not a top prospect. His defense this year has definitely improved over last year.
Please explain to the board what you expected Rhodes to do when he left MSU that he couldn't do? backflips?
you can tout Kodi as an example but you have no idea how good he was before, he was not a top prospect. His defense this year has definitely improved over last year.
Please explain to the board what you expected Rhodes to do when he left MSU that he couldn't do? backflips?
Oh ****, you seriously dont think Rhodes improved? His defense improved, his attitude improved, his baseline fadeaway improved, his aggressiveness improved, his outside shot improved, his low post game improved.
Gordon came in as a very talent player and left as a player who had better mechanics, better handle on the ball, and an improved ability to read passing lanes. He didnt always shoot it great, but that was shot selection, not mechanics...and i will say his shot selection didnt really improve.
Stewart has improved his defense A TON, his ability to break the press as the primary ball handler, his knowledge of reading a defense and hedging also improved greatly. His shooting has held overall pretty steady since he came in as a freshman, but id say they were already high %s to start with, so really how much are you expecting him to improve %wise?
Ravern came in and was basically only good last season as a spot up outside shooter. He was great at that, but he was 1 dimensional. He couldnt dribble the ball more than 3 times before it went off his knee, his foot, or the defender swiped it away. This year he can take it from the perimeter into the lane confidently and hit a floater, take it to the rim, or stop at hit a midrange shot. He has improved his open floor spacing on fast breaks too and now not only runs out to the perimeter to beg for a shot, but can head to the rim for an allyoop.
You are friggin crazy if you cant see these improvements.
And how the hell do you not remember those other players? Not exactly decades ago.
Gordon came in as a very talent player and left as a player who had better mechanics, better handle on the ball, and an improved ability to read passing lanes. He didnt always shoot it great, but that was shot selection, not mechanics...and i will say his shot selection didnt really improve.
Stewart has improved his defense A TON, his ability to break the press as the primary ball handler, his knowledge of reading a defense and hedging also improved greatly. His shooting has held overall pretty steady since he came in as a freshman, but id say they were already high %s to start with, so really how much are you expecting him to improve %wise?
Ravern came in and was basically only good last season as a spot up outside shooter. He was great at that, but he was 1 dimensional. He couldnt dribble the ball more than 3 times before it went off his knee, his foot, or the defender swiped it away. This year he can take it from the perimeter into the lane confidently and hit a floater, take it to the rim, or stop at hit a midrange shot. He has improved his open floor spacing on fast breaks too and now not only runs out to the perimeter to beg for a shot, but can head to the rim for an allyoop.
You are friggin crazy if you cant see these improvements.
And how the hell do you not remember those other players? Not exactly decades ago.
There were 46 Yes votes... So doing the math that means that Coach 34 instructed fishwater99, OEM and THICK to sign up for how many new usernames each?
I can't recall a single player getting noticeably better in an area where they were previously lacking. I admit I haven't put much thought into it, but please enlighten me.
after the first year he was on the job. Like it or not we were stuck with Polk for 3 years or so at a minimum due to CWS the year before he retired. Add to that he was the most succesful baseball coach MSU ever had.
Stansbury has been given more time like it or not. I don't think 2010-11 was a do or die year but he definitely needed some pressure put on him.
Stansbury has been given more time like it or not. I don't think 2010-11 was a do or die year but he definitely needed some pressure put on him.
Saying we don't have players that improve or develop is about the most illogical and irrational thing that I've seen people say on here.
50% of Turner's shots might've been airballs his freshman year, he was awful. He's solid now, has found a niche, and was actually really good last year. Frazier, Bowers, and Zimmerman are the best examples though. Those guys were very unreliable and unsure as freshmen, but Zimmerman and Bowers ended up much better college players than Mo Williams for example, who had much more talent than they did
50% of Turner's shots might've been airballs his freshman year, he was awful. He's solid now, has found a niche, and was actually really good last year. Frazier, Bowers, and Zimmerman are the best examples though. Those guys were very unreliable and unsure as freshmen, but Zimmerman and Bowers ended up much better college players than Mo Williams for example, who had much more talent than they did