His reaming of Brendan Ryan for switching gloves right before the inning started was pretty ridiculous. I realize it's not ideal, but the guy may have literally just found the problem on the last ground ball. Is it not better to make the switch then than it come back to bite you on a hot shot? To top that off, Carpenter still kept glaring at him after the reaming, which was after he'd already pitched an inning. Seems to me someone takes his being in charge a little too seriously.
So apparently Chris Carpenter is not the most fun guy to play with.
- Thread starter jcdawgman18
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His reaming of Brendan Ryan for switching gloves right before the inning started was pretty ridiculous. I realize it's not ideal, but the guy may have literally just found the problem on the last ground ball. Is it not better to make the switch then than it come back to bite you on a hot shot? To top that off, Carpenter still kept glaring at him after the reaming, which was after he'd already pitched an inning. Seems to me someone takes his being in charge a little too seriously.
From what I've read, there is trouble in Redbird Paradise - especially since the Ludwick trade. It wasn't a very popular decision in the clubhouse. Might have everybody on edge. <div>jcdawgman18 said:
</div><div>Of course Carpenter could get pissed every time he looks at Ryan wondering why he's not in AA where he belongs.</div>
On the days he starts, he doesnt talk to media before the game, he doesnt talk to teammates. It may be his "Clear the mechanism" to quote For love of the game. He has been a Card for to long for there to be any friction between teammates of his.
And Ryan is one of those that constantly quirks his teammates, whether it being talking when they are concentrating, or goofing off when he shouldnt be. He is like the little brother of the team, they all love him, but he can do things that get on their nerves that wouldnt bother them as much if it was other players.
And Ryan is one of those that constantly quirks his teammates, whether it being talking when they are concentrating, or goofing off when he shouldnt be. He is like the little brother of the team, they all love him, but he can do things that get on their nerves that wouldnt bother them as much if it was other players.
I think as far as the glove incident, Carp was probably thinking- "We were warming up for 8 warm up pitches, and right before the first pitch of the game, you want a new glove?" I think he was just saying- if you need a new glove, get it sooner.
The second time he blew up at Ryan, he was out of position. I'm pretty sure it was Ryan's fault because there were coaches talking to him in the dugout in between innings. Carpenter made a pitch to get out of the inning, and Ryan was almost standing behind second.
But back to Carpenter- to pitch at a level that he has during his Big League career, and to come back from major injuries, you have to be competitive. Look at the difference between his career and Brenden Ryan's. Just about every MLB player is a highly competitive player, because to win championships, it takes people that will do whatever it takes to win and hate losing and being half-assed. They have to compete just to get through the minors to even get to the Big Leagues.
That's why I wanted Polk and co. gone from our program. We had too much emphasis on being happy and having a "good experience" and not enough emphasis on winning.
And as a Cardinals fan, I'm glad he jumped his ***. This is the Big Leagues.
The second time he blew up at Ryan, he was out of position. I'm pretty sure it was Ryan's fault because there were coaches talking to him in the dugout in between innings. Carpenter made a pitch to get out of the inning, and Ryan was almost standing behind second.
But back to Carpenter- to pitch at a level that he has during his Big League career, and to come back from major injuries, you have to be competitive. Look at the difference between his career and Brenden Ryan's. Just about every MLB player is a highly competitive player, because to win championships, it takes people that will do whatever it takes to win and hate losing and being half-assed. They have to compete just to get through the minors to even get to the Big Leagues.
That's why I wanted Polk and co. gone from our program. We had too much emphasis on being happy and having a "good experience" and not enough emphasis on winning.
And as a Cardinals fan, I'm glad he jumped his ***. This is the Big Leagues.
I love Carpenter. He is in the top 5 of my all time favorite Cardinal pitchers.
That being said , tonight He acted like a ***** on the rag.</p>
I mean , come on ..........Are you really so fragile that You let something like a half of a minute delay for your SS to get a new glove bother you to the point that You lose what is important ( winning the game ) so that You can waste your attention on scolding your teammate?</p>
How about being a pro , which is what You are payed greatly to do, and simplykeep your mind on what your job is no matter what happens. Distractions come in many forms. As a "Pro" , You look for a way to overcome them , not to dwell on them and make them a bigger issue than they should be.
Clearly Carp's focus became on what Ryan did and not on getting his job done. He is too good of a pitcher to allow that to happen.
The Cards look to Carp to be a leader and one who gets over things like this , not one who makes a big deal out of nothing. He didn't do his team any favors by acting like He did tonight and it was an important night considering what is at stake in this series.
To him I would say.....Put the team first and what is best for the team because tonight , You did not do that. Instead , You acted like a selfish child.</p>
That being said , tonight He acted like a ***** on the rag.</p>
I mean , come on ..........Are you really so fragile that You let something like a half of a minute delay for your SS to get a new glove bother you to the point that You lose what is important ( winning the game ) so that You can waste your attention on scolding your teammate?</p>
How about being a pro , which is what You are payed greatly to do, and simplykeep your mind on what your job is no matter what happens. Distractions come in many forms. As a "Pro" , You look for a way to overcome them , not to dwell on them and make them a bigger issue than they should be.
Clearly Carp's focus became on what Ryan did and not on getting his job done. He is too good of a pitcher to allow that to happen.
The Cards look to Carp to be a leader and one who gets over things like this , not one who makes a big deal out of nothing. He didn't do his team any favors by acting like He did tonight and it was an important night considering what is at stake in this series.
To him I would say.....Put the team first and what is best for the team because tonight , You did not do that. Instead , You acted like a selfish child.</p>
He probably found the problem on the throw down. When else is he supposed to switch it?
I had moved on to other things by the out of position incident and just now saw it on SC, but I think it's fine for jumping him on that. That actually affected the game. But the glove deal was just Carpenter being a douche. If a guy realizes his bat is cracked as he's walking into the box, should he just say "well, crap, I shouldn't hold everybody up a few seconds, just grin and bear it"? Of course not.
BTW, not a Cards fan, don't have a dog in this hunt. But just thought it was pretty ridiculous how he reacted.
I had moved on to other things by the out of position incident and just now saw it on SC, but I think it's fine for jumping him on that. That actually affected the game. But the glove deal was just Carpenter being a douche. If a guy realizes his bat is cracked as he's walking into the box, should he just say "well, crap, I shouldn't hold everybody up a few seconds, just grin and bear it"? Of course not.
BTW, not a Cards fan, don't have a dog in this hunt. But just thought it was pretty ridiculous how he reacted.
He must have worn him out in the 7th, too. Everybody in the dugout - except Carpenter of course - was giving Ryan a pat on the back.AceLeroy said:
jcdawgman18 said:
is what else Ryan has or hasn't done behind the scenes in the clubhouse. I can guarantee you that there is more to this than just getting the wrong glove or a different glove.
A broken bat is a little bit different because in that case, you realize right before play starts. With the glove, he had several warm up throws go his way before the inning started. I don't know why Ryan decided to swith his glove at that point, but he did. I think Carpenter was saying if you need a different glove, don't take three or four warm up throws and THEN get a new glove.
Most pitchers are like that- Greg Maddux used to yell all the time, Roger Clemens was very intense- he threw that broken bat at Mike Piazza, Bob Gibson throwing at everybody. I think it just comes from pitchers wanting complete control of the game and to have that "intimidating mound prescence". Pitchers want to get comfortable and get into a rhythm, and they don't want their concentration broken. That's why you will see hitters step out of the box and call time if it looks like a pitcher is in a groove- to try to break their rhythm up.
And let's be honest here- to this point, this was the Cardinals biggest game of the year so far. And here's Brenden Ryan going out there with the wrong glove and setting himself up in the wrong spot? I would probably be upset to if I was Carpenter. That poor positioning could have started a big rally for the Reds.
So, I think it was a combination of things that probably caused Carpenter to act the way he did, but since I don't know what's going on in the clubhouse, I'm going to side with the guy that has won the Cy Young award vs the guy who is hitting .220 and is known to be a screwball.
and Ryan should have knocked him the 17 out.... Last time I checked he isn't God and he has no reason to jump on another player like that. If its that big of a deal, the manager would have said something. Ryan should have kicked or booted one away to let Douchebag Christ know that it takes 25 players to win a championship. I lost all respect for him tonight.
RougeDawg said:
I would have lost all respect for Brenden Ryan. And I would hope that the Cardinals would release him for doing something like that. If I was LaRussa and he had done that, I would have pulled him out of the game immediately and told him to get the 17 out of my sight before I kicked his ***. I'd also make sure his *** would be released. He can do that horseshit in AAA.
Making errors would have only made Carpenter yell at him more. If Ryan doesn't want Carpenter yelling at him, I suggest he get his *** in gear and hit a little bit better than .220 and position himself correctly on defense.
Because not doing your job and sabotaging your teammates that ***** on you for not doing your job is how you win championships.
Of course, it was all just a misunderstanding.
Apparently Ryan wasn't on the field when Carpenter had finished warming up. When Ryan finally made it on the field, he brought out the wrong glove, and thus had to have the right glove brought out to him, which pissed off Carpenter even more.
What was Ryan doing? Taking extra swings in the batting cage according to LaRussa, and he didn't realize that the inning was over.
As far as the second incident, Carpenter claims he was mad at himself. Not sure why the coaches were consoling Ryan after the incident, though. So, I'm not buying that explaination.
Apparently Ryan wasn't on the field when Carpenter had finished warming up. When Ryan finally made it on the field, he brought out the wrong glove, and thus had to have the right glove brought out to him, which pissed off Carpenter even more.
What was Ryan doing? Taking extra swings in the batting cage according to LaRussa, and he didn't realize that the inning was over.
As far as the second incident, Carpenter claims he was mad at himself. Not sure why the coaches were consoling Ryan after the incident, though. So, I'm not buying that explaination.
he's a prick and I hope his 17ing glove breaks one day. or he grabs the wrong hat... Everybody makes mistakes. All I'm saying is, you aren't going to get the best play from the other 8 if you ***** and whine at them every time they do something wrong. Do you see the players yelling at Chris when he grooves a fastball or hangs a fat curve that gets placed in the nosebleed outfield seats? Hell no. He is a big overpaid crybaby. Hope he gets shelled the rest of the season. He put himself above the game tonight, and anybody who has played baseball knows what happens to those who think they are better than the game. I'm ready to see the rest of his season. Is he gonna say anything to Albert for coming on late, or having the wrong glove? That wasn't being competitive, it was selfish. </p>
If I was LaRussa I would have said something to Carpenter. Thats a managers job to get on players not a pitcher, unless you win every game and then you can tell other players what to do. </p>
If I was LaRussa I would have said something to Carpenter. Thats a managers job to get on players not a pitcher, unless you win every game and then you can tell other players what to do. </p>
am I the only one who remember how such great players as Nolan Ryan, Steve Carlton, and the greatest Cardinal pitcher ever Bob Gibson absolutely were tyrants on pitching days? People treat these heroes of the game like Gods and talk bad about Carp now, get over it.
someone needs to be yelling at Brendan Ryan.... Maybe Carp is doing what he feels the coaches aren't...
I wonder how often things like this happen... the cameras obviously caught this one, but Carp made an attempt to make it a private discussion... does this stuff happen a lot?
I wonder how often things like this happen... the cameras obviously caught this one, but Carp made an attempt to make it a private discussion... does this stuff happen a lot?
If you're Brendan Ryan and you know you've got a control freak on the mound... A control freak, when he's in his element, is on the best 5 pitchers in the NL, then you spend your whole 17'n day helping to keep that control freak in his element.
He started the tradition of all the starting pitchers gathering together to watch each others pitching sessions to nitpick problems in deliveries. Dont know how many noticed this, but last year, Waino wasnt himself the first 3-4 games of the season. During a side session with all the other starters watching Waino, Carp picked out that he had dropped his arm slot but just an inch or two, and the change made all the difference after that.
and that's the point when I started thinking about how good of a pitching coach Carpcould be after he retires...
Is every 5th day, the other 24 players should do any and everything they have to do to pacify Prick Carpenter: carry extra gloves with them out to the field, hide their backup bat right behind the home plate ump, don't remain in dugout for any reason other than your fibula is poking through your leg (carp would prob still ***** at you), and don't say a word to him even if the other team is putting dents in the outfield upper deck facade...
No player is above the team or the game and no player should cater to another player.
No player is above the team or the game and no player should cater to another player.
As far as we know, this stuff may happen EVERY start with Carpenter... but this time, the cameras caught it.
As much as we'd like to speculate on what's going on, we really don't know the whole story.</p>
As much as we'd like to speculate on what's going on, we really don't know the whole story.</p>
***** at general manager and LaRussa for not having a better option at SS. I'm pretty sure Ryan would much rather be hitting .280 but repeatedly getting on his case isn't going to help the issue. Let carpenter play SS if he feels he can play better. It was over the top, and was apparent when Carp was yelling obscenities when the ball got through the infield. Some coach had obviously positioned Ryan up the middle, which means carp should have been pitching to the defense. A coach doesn't move a player and then the catcher pitch the batter a diff way. Maybe he missed his spot. Has anyone looked at that? It was unnecessary and he wouldn't appreciate it if people got on his case every time he gave up a bomb or rub.
Was that Ryan was tasked with holding the runner at 2nd base and did a half-*** job of getting back to cover his position after the pitch. I may be wrong, but that's what I saw.
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; ">Roger Clemens was very intense- he threw that broken bat at Mike Piazza</span><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; ">
</span></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px;">Roid-rage/intensity, po-tay-toe/po-tah-toe. Same thing I guess....</span></font></div>
</span></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px;">Roid-rage/intensity, po-tay-toe/po-tah-toe. Same thing I guess....</span></font></div>
Brenden Ryan, not so much. What kind of a message would it send to the team to get on one of your best pitcher's *** when one of your crappiest players screws up?
You don't get onto Albert Pujols when he screws up because you know he is giving 100%. You don't get onto Carpenter because you know he is giving 100%. You also know that those players are going to do what it takes to adjust and correct the flaws in their game, and that's what is expected of them at the Major League level. Brenden Ryan? Not so much.
I'll say this- I've watched Chris Carpenter a lot over the past seven-eight years. I've never seen him jump on someone's *** like that. For him to do that, I would suspect that he had a really good reason to do that.
And how do you know that LaRussa and Moziliak haven't talked to Ryan? Sometimes when it comes from a teammate it's more effective. And that might be another reason why Carpenter went off on him- because perhaps LaRussa has jumped his *** before, and he still won't get his lazy *** in the game.
This is not Upward Baseball. This is their JOB. They are paid to win. If someone screws up, it can kill the whole team. If Brenden Ryan can't or doesn't want to work towards winning a Championship, by all means bring up Tyler Greene from Memphis. I'm sure he would be happy to have his spot on the team.
You don't get onto Albert Pujols when he screws up because you know he is giving 100%. You don't get onto Carpenter because you know he is giving 100%. You also know that those players are going to do what it takes to adjust and correct the flaws in their game, and that's what is expected of them at the Major League level. Brenden Ryan? Not so much.
I'll say this- I've watched Chris Carpenter a lot over the past seven-eight years. I've never seen him jump on someone's *** like that. For him to do that, I would suspect that he had a really good reason to do that.
And how do you know that LaRussa and Moziliak haven't talked to Ryan? Sometimes when it comes from a teammate it's more effective. And that might be another reason why Carpenter went off on him- because perhaps LaRussa has jumped his *** before, and he still won't get his lazy *** in the game.
This is not Upward Baseball. This is their JOB. They are paid to win. If someone screws up, it can kill the whole team. If Brenden Ryan can't or doesn't want to work towards winning a Championship, by all means bring up Tyler Greene from Memphis. I'm sure he would be happy to have his spot on the team.