So, How do We Beat Purdue?

[Hungry Jack]

Purdue gets most of their minutes from 8-9 guys.

Zedey leads in minutes, points, rebounds, and shoe size, but he has no leg speed. He accounts for 30% of PU's points.

2 guys scoring in double figures (Zedey and freshman guard Loyer).

Braden Smith, freshman guard, and Mason Gillis, wing forward, both shoot over 40% from 3.

Zedey went off for 33 and 18 vs IU, but PU still lost with 16 turnovers and 10-17 from the stripe. They shot 14-38 from the field when Zedey wasn't shooting.

That's probably the blueprint: pressure the young guards and try to turn it over. See if Big Matt can keep Zedey away from the basket and make him work.

I think we'll have to score 75 to beat them.

 

[GatoLouco]

It goes against what we do, but I feel we stand a better change if Edey scores 40 but they don't take open threes or get lanes to get to the basket out of our double team. I have not seen that much of Purdue playing, but what I saw is Edey having improved a lot finding the right guy when smothered inside. Of course it helps he's so gigantic and sees over a double of triple team easily.

Alternatively we can try to food poison his ***.

 

[Titanium999]

Purdue gets most of their minutes from 8-9 guys.

Zedey leads in minutes, points, rebounds, and shoe size, but he has no leg speed. He accounts for 30% of PU's points.

2 guys scoring in double figures (Zedey and freshman guard Loyer).

Braden Smith, freshman guard, and Mason Gillis, wing forward, both shoot over 40% from 3.

Zedey went off for 33 and 18 vs IU, but PU still lost with 16 turnovers and 10-17 from the stripe. They shot 14-38 from the field when Zedey wasn't shooting.

That's probably the blueprint: pressure the young guards and try to turn it over. See if Big Matt can keep Zedey away from the basket and make him work.

I think we'll have to score 75 to beat them.

Easy! Leg speed in fourth quarter!

 

[Figrating]

Drop bbs on the court.

 

[Sec_112]

It goes against what we do, but I feel we stand a better change if Edey scores 40 but they don't take open threes or get lanes to get to the basket out of our double team. I have not seen that much of Purdue playing, but what I saw is Edey having improved a lot finding the right guy when smothered inside. Of course it helps he's so gigantic and sees over a double of triple team easily.

Alternatively we can try to food poison his ***.

I like options 1 and especially 2. Let's get creative.

But realistically, I'm thinking the same thing. They will be practicing all week against the double-team in the post. Change it up, and forget the double-team. Let them get their twos and hope you can limit the threes as they did at OSU.

NU also needs to hits its threes.

Lastly, I hope someone sits down with Audige and reviews all his shots over the last three games. My guess is he's pulling up way too often. I'd like to see him get to the basket more if he doesn't have his shot.

 

[SmellyCat]

Drop bbs on the court.

BB? Is that Boo Buie or Brooks Barnhizer?

 

[Figrating]

BB? Is that Boo Buie or Brooks Barnhizer?

Both and more...

 

[TheC]

In last night's coverage, Brando and Jackson kept making the good point that one of the consequences of our double teams is that it keeps our bigs out of foul trouble. I think if we let our guys go 1-on-1 against Edey, we will be left with Brooks Barnhizer playing center by the end. Tyus will foul out in 46 seconds.

I think you do make Edey work. He will still get his 25-30 points, but make him work really hard. When I see a big guy dominate the way he does, I always wonder why a team would ever run a play that doesn't involve just giving it to him in the post? I guess it must be because eventually those big guys wear down. So, let's wear him down.

Our rotations out of the double team have gotten much better as of late, so I'm hoping we focus on their top shooters out of the rotation and just hope that their third option doesn't have a career shooting night. You also have to look out for Loyer cutting to the basket.

The other challenge with Edey is that he is a force on the defensive end and will hurt the ability of Boo and Chase driving into the paint. Maybe they can get into his body and force some fouls, but he is just so tall that he can swat them away from an arm's length.

This all said, the one team that plays defense like us is Rutgers and they beat this Purdue team in West Lafayette. Never say never Cat fans!!

 

[mickbula]

Nu has actually played #1 ranked opponents closely at times. Carmody's princeton o nearly beat #1 osu. I think we lost only by a few points and almost won. Played illini close when they were #1 too. Anybody old enuf to remember shon morris and company 1988 upsetting Indiana year after they won nat champ?? Also, I heard that nu beat magic and msu the year they won the nat champ??

 

[GeorgiaCat]

This all said, the one team that plays defense like us is Rutgers and they beat this Purdue team in West Lafayette. Never say never Cat fans!!

Rutgers has the second or third best big man in the conference (IMHO), Cliff O., and he is very athletic, especially compared to what we will roll out against Purdue. The only two teams that have beaten Purdue are the two teams with the best big men other than Edey himself.

 

[TheC]

Rutgers has the second or third best big man in the conference (IMHO), Cliff O., and he is very athletic, especially compared to what we will roll out against Purdue. The only two teams that have beaten Purdue are the two teams with the best big men other than Edey himself.

I can't wait until Big Matt throws down a posterizing dunk over Edey. You'll see!! You'll all see!!!!

 

[CappyNU]

The difference between Purdue and OSU is that OSU has maybe 2 guys who can reliably hit the 3, and Purdue has 5 of them.

If we want to beat them, forcing them into turnovers is essential. In 13 games when they turned the ball over on fewer than 18% of possessions, they won by 3 or less only once. In the 12 games where they were above 18%, they won by 3 or less five times which includes both losses. Magic number for turnovers is 12, if we can get above that, we've got a chance. Edey personally is susceptible to turnovers, having at least three in 9 of 14 conference games this year.

Back to Edey, in 5 out of 14 games he's been held to fewer than 10 shots. Purdue won those games by margins of 3, 18, 22, 20, and 14. I do not think it will be beneficial to try and limit him to the extent that we can't guard the outside shooters.

Regarding Loyer, he has really struggled shooting the past 7 games, only 24% from 3. Hopefully he doesn't rediscover his stroke against us. In the Rutgers loss, they limited him to only 1 shot inside the arc when he averages 6 per game. Rutgers did the same to the PG, Smith.

We have to play a perfect game if we want to win, really. On paper it's a bad matchup. Purdue is the best offensive rebounding team in the conference, we're 2nd worst at defensive rebounds. We're the best at getting to the foul line, but they're the best at not fouling (somehow, this is shocking to me given the nature of literally every Painter-coached team). They're the best at moving the ball on offense, and we force teams to move the ball more than anyone else. They're the 2nd-best shooting team, we're 4th-worst at defensive FG%.

But...that's why we play the games, isn't it?

 

[bringbacktherantboard]

Alternatively we can try to food poison his ***.

Maybe a voodoo doll.

 

[NUCat320]

In last night's coverage, Brando and Jackson kept making the good point that one of the consequences of our double teams is that it keeps our bigs out of foul trouble. I think if we let our guys go 1-on-1 against Edey, we will be left with Brooks Barnhizer playing center by the end. Tyus will foul out in 46 seconds.

I think you do make Edey work. He will still get his 25-30 points, but make him work really hard. When I see a big guy dominate the way he does, I always wonder why a team would ever run a play that doesn't involve just giving it to him in the post? I guess it must be because eventually those big guys wear down. So, let's wear him down.

Our rotations out of the double team have gotten much better as of late, so I'm hoping we focus on their top shooters out of the rotation and just hope that their third option doesn't have a career shooting night. You also have to look out for Loyer cutting to the basket.

The other challenge with Edey is that he is a force on the defensive end and will hurt the ability of Boo and Chase driving into the paint. Maybe they can get into his body and force some fouls, but he is just so tall that he can swat them away from an arm's length.

This all said, the one team that plays defense like us is Rutgers and they beat this Purdue team in West Lafayette. Never say never Cat fans!!

The Rutgers box doesn’t tell much of a story.

The biggest thing I see is that Edey’s attempts were limited — he averages 14 FGA and only got ten. (Purdue blew out Iowa this week, and Edey only got 7FGA.)

Rutgers was efficient on threes (6-14), only turned it over ten times.

I think NU doubles Edey but denies aggressively. I’d like NU to maintain its strategy and double every touch — stick with playing to your strength. Dance with who you brung, as Coach Walk would say.

(Counterpoint: IU allowed Edey to go 15-19 and allowed 17 offensive boards.)

Strategy: hope.

 

[elgatoloco_rivals308553]

One approach is to let Edey do Edey things and shut down everyone else. Sometimes this causes a lot of standing around for the other four. Then go at him when he's on D--attack the rim, go at his body, maybe get a couple of cheap fouls.

 

[Username Not Available]

I watched the first half of the Purdue game last night as they handled Iowa pretty easily.

What I noticed was a: Iowa was triple teaming Edey and b: Smith is really really good and kinda short.

I suspect NU's success will involve trapping Smith into bad passes. I think his handle is too good to strip him consistently, but he looked small enough that a swarm could cause problems. Also, Iowa pressed for a while and it didn't really stop Purdue, but Purdue didn't do a great job of breaking thru it, so that could help us slow the game down and run the shot clock out on them.

I think you just do what you can to prevent the entry pass, maybe pick his pocket if he isn't right at the net, and otherwise let Edey get his shots to stay out of foul trouble and guard the three. Slow Smith down, stop the rest of the team, and let Edey try to win the game on his own.

Defensively, how do you strategize to get Edey into foul trouble? I think you get him hacking at Boo and Chase on the drive, but that takes good positioning from them and from Matt/TV so Edey doesn't get a clean blocking angle and has to reach.

I also think you need to rest Chase and Boo a few more minutes than usual so they're still firing on all cylinders in the last two minutes of the game.

 

[ThatadultfromHolland]

Run the defense. Double in the post and force difficult passes. Really focus on the far side of the basket close out. Hope that players that aren’t used to double teams make bad passes. You aren’t going to win this game completely changing your strategy.

Limit your turnovers. Force the other team to commit turnovers. Hit the boards hard. Win your 50/50’s. Hope you hit more open shots then they do.

 

[Catreporter]

I heard that nu beat magic and msu the year they won the nat champ??

Yes they did and that was an amazing game. I don't think they were #1 at the time but they wound up #1. NU came into the game 0-8 in the Big Ten but had an unbelievable hot streak in the first half and led by 20 at the half, and unlike that ugly loss to MSU at Allstate in 2018, they held that lead throughout the second half. Michigan State never lost another game that season after that one and their earlier four losses were by one or two points. The Cats also beat Michigan when they were ranked #2 the year after they had lost the national championship to Bob Knight's Indiana Hoosiers (1977?)

 

[Napcat]

Who wins the matchup between the guard tandems, the freshman wonders vs. the cagey veterans, will be interesting and determinative.

 

[rwhitney014]

One approach is to let Edey do Edey things and shut down everyone else. Sometimes this causes a lot of standing around for the other four. Then go at him when he's on D--attack the rim, go at his body, maybe get a couple of cheap fouls.

OSU hit a ton of 2s at a very high rate last night, while shooting atrociously from 3. They more or less wrote the 3 off in the last 15 or so minutes of the game. We won. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing if one guy goes off for a big game - it just means you need to stop the other guys from getting to double digits themselves.

We do need to do a much better job cleaning the glass than we did last night. Edey averages more than 5 offensive boards a game. Can we keep him below that number? Largely limit Purdue to one attempt per possession? That would help.

I too had the foul trouble thought, but Edey hasn't had more than 3 fouls in a conference game this year. Which is amazing. Makes me wonder if Painter would even lift him if we got 2 quick fouls on him anyway.

They do turn the ball over a lot. We'll have to force 15+ and score 20-25 points off them. We'll have to hit open shots - not much margin for error. It will be hard, of course, but beating a #1 should be! This is a cake game. Lose and no one really bats an eye, but win and we'll open a lot of them.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

The refs could have a major impact on the outcome - calling or not calling fouls on the big guys.
Unfortunately Edey has developed some post moves and can initiate contact and get the refs to call fouls on Nicholson and Verhoeven.

(side note - Verhoeven is so much better technique-wise after his 5 fouls in 5 minutes game. He used to bring his arms down to contest nearly every shot and he has stopped doing that)

I'd like to see us have Nicholson running the floor at full speed to beat Edey down the court and make him work.

The matchup of Caleb Furst against Robbie Beran doesn't seem like a good one for NU.

 

[GatoLouco]

The difference between Purdue and OSU is that OSU has maybe 2 guys who can reliably hit the 3, and Purdue has 5 of them.

Back to Edey, in 5 out of 14 games he's been held to fewer than 10 shots. Purdue won those games by margins of 3, 18, 22, 20, and 14. I do not think it will be beneficial to try and limit him to the extent that we can't guard the outside shooters.

I remember looking it up last year before we played them and they have several guys shooting over 40% from 3.

Just looked it up. It was 5 of them. With the 6th best at 38%.

This year is not as dramatic, but they still have impressive percentages from 3. I would theorize they are not necessarily better 3 pt shooters than our guys, or guys in other teams. They are just more open, more often.

 

[hdhntr1]

Purdue gets most of their minutes from 8-9 guys.

Zedey leads in minutes, points, rebounds, and shoe size, but he has no leg speed. He accounts for 30% of PU's points.

2 guys scoring in double figures (Zedey and freshman guard Loyer).

Braden Smith, freshman guard, and Mason Gillis, wing forward, both shoot over 40% from 3.

Zedey went off for 33 and 18 vs IU, but PU still lost with 16 turnovers and 10-17 from the stripe. They shot 14-38 from the field when Zedey wasn't shooting.

That's probably the blueprint: pressure the young guards and try to turn it over. See if Big Matt can keep Zedey away from the basket and make him work.

I think we'll have to score 75 to beat them.

Their turnovers are their achillies heal. Have to get them and points off of them. They had 33 TOs in last couple games. Some have said you have to run against them as they are tough in half court game. Maybe but that is not really our game

 

[hdhntr1]

Both and more...

little round things

 

[xxxbobxxx]

In last night's coverage, Brando and Jackson kept making the good point that one of the consequences of our double teams is that it keeps our bigs out of foul trouble. I think if we let our guys go 1-on-1 against Edey, we will be left with Brooks Barnhizer playing center by the end. Tyus will foul out in 46 seconds.

I think you do make Edey work. He will still get his 25-30 points, but make him work really hard. When I see a big guy dominate the way he does, I always wonder why a team would ever run a play that doesn't involve just giving it to him in the post? I guess it must be because eventually those big guys wear down. So, let's wear him down.

Our rotations out of the double team have gotten much better as of late, so I'm hoping we focus on their top shooters out of the rotation and just hope that their third option doesn't have a career shooting night. You also have to look out for Loyer cutting to the basket.

The other challenge with Edey is that he is a force on the defensive end and will hurt the ability of Boo and Chase driving into the paint. Maybe they can get into his body and force some fouls, but he is just so tall that he can swat them away from an arm's length.

This all said, the one team that plays defense like us is Rutgers and they beat this Purdue team in West Lafayette. Never say never Cat fans!!

With this mindset, I think running a few small lineups v Edey could help limit him. Beran at the five gives up all the Edey two’s he wants, but then has to chase Beran down court and come out to cover him.

On Their D, against Beran, BB, Mart, Berry, chase or other BB, Edey can’t sit in the lane. They either give up the three or risk Edey foul as he moves towards a driving player.

Would not work over 40, but could get him tired and or in foul trouble and allow us to play our normal game in a lineup without Edey for stretches.

 

[Cataria]

Nu has actually played #1 ranked opponents closely at times. Carmody's princeton o nearly beat #1 osu. I think we lost only by a few points and almost won. Played illini close when they were #1 too. Anybody old enuf to remember shon morris and company 1988 upsetting Indiana year after they won nat champ?? Also, I heard that nu beat magic and msu the year they won the nat champ??

NU beat MSU and Magic in 1979 at home. MSU won the NCAA tournament that year by beating Larry Bird's Indiana State team.

 

[TheC]

With this mindset, I think running a few small lineups v Edey could help limit him. Beran at the five gives up all the Edey two’s he wants, but then has to chase Beran down court and come out to cover him.

On Their D, against Beran, BB, Mart, Berry, chase or other BB, Edey can’t sit in the lane. They either give up the three or risk Edey foul as he moves towards a driving player.

Would not work over 40, but could get him tired and or in foul trouble and allow us to play our normal game in a lineup without Edey for stretches.

Not a bad idea. The only worry is that they would crush us on the boards. If they get every missed shot, then they'll eventually score on every possession.

 

[xxxbobxxx]

Not a bad idea. The only worry is that they would crush us on the boards. If they get every missed shot, then they'll eventually score on every possession.

Agree it’s not a long run solution, but spurts to get Edey tired and hopefully in foul trouble as a bonus. Btw, you foul more when tired.

 

[NCPurplecat]

The importance of a big center that can face up Edey assisted with double team is a great start. Edey may be MVP in college baskerball this year and will get his points but maybe he can be limited a bit. NU should have the advantage at Guard relying on Srs. The match up may be better for NU than people think and it may come down to 3 point and FT shooting as many close games do. Purdue is over reliant on one guy. Upset is possible as all expectations are on Purdue.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Has anyone thought to ask Bobby Knight on beating Purdue?

 

[chicagocatfan24]

Dumb question from somebody who knows nothing about basketball or all of the computer models (me): is there such thing as a good loss? Say the Cats lose by 1 to Purdue, is that better than 20 to them? Or is a loss a loss?

 

[CappyNU]

Dumb question from somebody who knows nothing about basketball or all of the computer models (me): is there such thing as a good loss? Say the Cats lose by 1 to Purdue, is that better than 20 to them? Or is a loss a loss?

We aren't expected to win the game, so a loss is no big deal. Getting blown out wouldn't look great, but this game is essentially all upside.

 

[SmellyCat]

A one-point loss is "better" than a 20-point loss, to the computers at least, but the computer systems actually have this one fairly close already because of the three points they regularly give to home-court advantage. I think I saw one model having NU lose by only two. So, strangely enough, a one-point loss won't move the needle much at all. For all we know, a one-point win won't either, though obviously it'll move the needle a lot with NU fans.

 

[ballerog711]

I would go small. Make edey have to cover Beran.

Give edey his points shut down the others.

 

[PURPLE Book Cat]

Has anyone thought to ask Bobby Knight on beating Purdue?

I'll just post this here:

 

[PURPLE Book Cat]

I'll just post this here:

You [redacted] guys 'll run until you cant eat supper

 

[AdamOnFirst]

Dumb question from somebody who knows nothing about basketball or all of the computer models (me): is there such thing as a good loss? Say the Cats lose by 1 to Purdue, is that better than 20 to them? Or is a loss a loss?

To answer your question directly: maybe in edge cases it makes a difference. Probably doesn’t matter much vs Purdue, but you’d rather not lose to Illinois by 35, for example. Only matters on the margins though.

What people really talk about as a “bad loss” is losing to a horrible team (Minnesota or worse) or losing huge to a poor team (ie blown out by 30 by like Nebraska )

 

[Hungry Jack]

I'll just post this here:

Greatest coaching rant EVAR. Gives me chills.

 

[ricko6543211]

The Rutgers box doesn’t tell much of a story.

The biggest thing I see is that Edey’s attempts were limited — he averages 14 FGA and only got ten. (Purdue blew out Iowa this week, and Edey only got 7FGA.)

Rutgers was efficient on threes (6-14), only turned it over ten times.

I think NU doubles Edey but denies aggressively. I’d like NU to maintain its strategy and double every touch — stick with playing to your strength. Dance with who you brung, as Coach Walk would say.

(Counterpoint: IU allowed Edey to go 15-19 and allowed 17 offensive boards.)

Strategy: hope.

Haha yeah good discussion this is the one I like the most, your best strategy is to try as much as possible to deny the post entry. That means ball pressure and other people sagging into the passing lanes. I didn’t see the Rutgers loss, but the Indiana game their best defensive possessions (I don’t have the numbers to back this up, just observationally watching it) were when they didn’t get it into the post.

The one thing we have going for us is that Nicholson is bigger than most of the guys Edey has faced. The problem is that Edey still has 3 (I think?) inches on him and can shoot the baby hook over him. Will be a good test for Matt. I suspect we will still double down when it gets in there - it’s something we’ve been doing all year and we’ve been decent at the rotations.

If I were Purdue I’d put Matt in some high screen roll action. I think he can hold up okay down low, his weakness is more on the mobility up top. And Tydus has been playing better recently but he would be in trouble down low against Edey.

 

[ricko6543211]

To answer your question directly: maybe in edge cases it makes a difference. Probably doesn’t matter much vs Purdue, but you’d rather not lose to Illinois by 35, for example. Only matters on the margins though.

What people really talk about as a “bad loss” is losing to a horrible team (Minnesota or worse) or losing huge to a poor team (ie blown out by 30 by like Nebraska )

Losing by 1 to Purdue would help our NET rating a bit at the margin the way they have it set up, better than losing by 20. It won’t show up on our resume as a “good loss”, but it will help a small bit in like 2-3 of the computer metrics that the NCAA looks at.

100% with Adam on what a bad loss is.