So how greedy are the NFL owners?

benatmsu · Jul 7, 2011

seriously, name an NFL team that's struggling financially now or ever.

Jacksonville.

idog · Jul 7, 2011

RonnyAtmosphere said:
...I know if I played a sport where every game I played I risk the potential of full body paralysis, shortened life span due to getting the 17 knocked out of me for 3 hours straight & excruciating pain that would haunt me everyday for the last 50 years of my life

you tell me which is more dangerous. you act like being an NFL player is akin to being a Marine on Iwo. owners > players. japs > whale huggers.

eurotrash · Jul 7, 2011

when government subsidizes sports. Almost all economists agree (which is rare) that taxpayers get hosed when governments hand out money to wealthy sports team owners. It's not really a debate. Sure teams generate taxes and sales but the profits go to the owners and players. That prevents other businesses from getting money (theaters, malls) because fans go to sporting events instead. Welfare for the wealthy is all it is and I'm fed up with my government (federal, state, and local) giving handouts and bailouts.

See here:
http://boston.com/news/pa...ium_subsidies_032700.htm

Here's a federal reserve study:
http://www.stlouisfed.org...ions/re/articles/?id=468

Obama's stimulus didn't work and neither does taxpayer money given to specific, well-connected businessmen. Having a major league sports team all about bragging rights (we have an NFL team and you don't) and the emotional benefit from supporting a local franchise (we won the Super Bowl--I'm so happy. I can forget all about my ****** life and fat legged wife).

But I guess that's what America has become. Big business no longer wants to operate in the free market. Better to get handouts from the taxpayers instead. Everyone is on the dole now.

And this is not simple black and white issue regarding owners versus unions. Of the two choices, I'm with the players. That's who I watch.

All fans should support the Green Bay Packers (after the Saints). That team is fan owned and they aren't about to leave Wisconsin for greener pastures. It's a small market team that works. Glad they won the super bowl. At least part of this country's tradition is still around.

eurotrash · Jul 7, 2011

when government subsidizes sports. Almost all economists agree (which is rare) that taxpayers get hosed when governments hand out money to wealthy sports team owners. It's not really a debate. Sure teams generate taxes and sales but the profits go to the owners and players. That prevents other businesses from getting money (theaters, malls) because fans go to sporting events instead. Welfare for the wealthy is all it is and I'm fed up with my government (federal, state, and local) giving handouts and bailouts.

See here:
http://boston.com/news/pa...ium_subsidies_032700.htm

Here's a federal reserve study:
http://www.stlouisfed.org...ions/re/articles/?id=468

Obama's stimulus didn't work and neither does taxpayer money given to specific, well-connected businessmen. Having a major league sports team all about bragging rights (we have an NFL team and you don't) and the emotional benefit from supporting a local franchise (we won the Super Bowl--I'm so happy. I can forget all about my ****** life and fat legged wife).

But I guess that's what America has become. Big business no longer wants to operate in the free market. Better to get handouts from the taxpayers instead. Everyone is on the dole now.

And this is not simple black and white issue regarding owners versus unions. Of the two choices, I'm with the players. That's who I watch.

All fans should support the Green Bay Packers (after the Saints). That team is fan owned and they aren't about to leave Wisconsin for greener pastures. It's a small market team that works. Glad they won the super bowl. At least part of this country's tradition is still around.

dawgs.sixpack · Jul 7, 2011

so one player making a stupid comment made up your mind for you? wow way to think about the issues and not have knee jerk reactions. or if i dig up some stupid owner comments would that swing you the other way too?<div>
</div>

VegasDawg13 · Jul 7, 2011

A true free market would mean no salary cap, which would be fine by the players. It would also mean no draft, which again would be just fine by the players. And it would also mean a player could get a guaranteed contract if any team was willing to give him one. The owners don't want any of these things.<div>
</div><div>So, if you want to argue for the owners, you can't base it off of these conservative beliefs that a free market is the answer. The owners don't want a free market.</div>

dawgs.sixpack · Jul 7, 2011

not to mention, the nfl is a very *gulp* socialistic league with revenue sharing and everything else, which has led to the immense popularity. every year, about 20 or so teams have a legit shot at making a deep run, and if you know your team isn't good, you know that you are 1 good offseason away from being on the right track (det, stl, whoever gets andrew luck next year, etc) and back in the playoffs quickly.

gravedigger · Jul 7, 2011

you can think back to a time when it was just a great game, and some big money people showed up and figured out a way to make money from it.

if you back the owners, you fondly look back at the good old days when a group of bitchy old men stood around on a field with a bunch of money and players showed up asking if they could play for it.

If there are no owners there is still baseball.

I love the game. It takes players. It has never required one single nickel for great baseball to be played.

bunch of kids in a sand lot is really all that is required.

but sure, lets back the bastards that charge 10 dollars for a beer and tell everyone they have to.

i call ********.

GloryDawg · Jul 7, 2011

Only about what 12% of workers nation wide join the Union and most of them are forced to join. That alone speak volumes about the Union. To say only Southerner hate the Union is a asinine statement.

PhredPhantom · Jul 7, 2011

Greed is good. I'm dead serious. We need Greed.

Watch this short 2 1/2 minute video and then try to convince me Greed is not good.

Greed is a good thing

Personally, I'm thankful for Greed. It's what made this country great.

MStateFan22 · Jul 7, 2011

I said I wasn't real sure until then. But hearing a guy that makes 8 figures a year while playing a sport at a level that millions of people only dream of kinda hit the wrong button with me.<div>
</div><div>You seem kinda touchy on this subject. I think you need to go hug a rich person.</div>

gravedigger · Jul 7, 2011

Did Gordon Geko mention anything about how good bailouts are?

boomboommsu · Jul 7, 2011

what. the. 17.

Great. I propose that every restaurant in your (to all in this thread) area band together and form a 'league', and prices are set so that every single one is guaranteed a profit, no matter how badly they run things. and no new restaurants allowed. just like the NFL.

MStateFan22 · Jul 7, 2011

The NFL is neither a socialist market or a free market. It's not a market at all. The NFL is a product produced in a free market in which they run a business model to maximize revenue. Nobody is forced to join this business. If players don't like the business model, then the players can find another business to work for.

windcrysmary · Jul 7, 2011

the players can accept the millions they are paid OR go into the "true" free market and see how that treats them... parity is essential for the NFL to thrive... so a salary cap allows the poorer teams to have a snowball's chance in hell to make some occassional runs...

but the players are NOT getting screwed over with the system that's currently in place therefore their complaints are not justified..

17 'em and the horse they rode in on... go Reagan on their whiney asses...

eurotrash · Jul 7, 2011

"the players can accept the millions they are
paid OR go into the "true" free market and see how that treats them.."

Where's this "true" free market? It doesn't exist. There really is only one legitimate professional football league so the players, unlike anyone, can't ply their specific trade elsewhere. It's not like switching jobs at one bank and going to another. Plus the NFL, thanks to Congress, is protected from anti-trust laws. It's essentially a monopoly.

"parity is essential for the NFL to thrive"

Any proof? The NFL was fine before the salary cap and lots of professional sports leagues around the globe thrive without a salary cap. The cap might be beneficial but it's certainly not essential.

"the players are NOT getting screwed over with
the system that's currently in place therefore their complaints are not
justified.."

The NFL is making more money than ever but the players are asked to take a pay cut. If you worked for a business that made billions but then demanded you take a salary cut I'd imagine you might complain and feel justified for doing so. Especially if there was no other similar business to work for.

"go Reagan on their whiney asses"

It's easy to train and replace air traffic controllers but not so easy to replace Drew Brees, Tom Brady and the other incredibly skilled athletes. Our nation of 300 plus million produces only a few such people. But I agree about going Reagan on the NFL. Reagan's 1986 tax reform eliminated taxpayer subsidies for big business and much corporate welfare. Time for the owners to pay their own way and stop acting like welfare babies feeding at the public trough. Cheers.

thatsbaseball · Jul 8, 2011

from "their specific trade" in this economy ? Why the hell does anyone owe these geniuses the right to practice "their specific trade" ?Why the hellwhen the rest of society is in a survival mode are these guys entitled to do exactlywhat they want they want to do ANDname the price they`re going to do it at ? If they don`t want to work for "the man" then they should join the rest of the real world and get a real job.

VegasDawg13 · Jul 8, 2011

windcrysmary said:
but the players are NOT getting screwed over with the system that's currently in place therefore their complaints are not justified..

They're not the ones complaining about the system that was in place. That seems to be the key thing y'all are ignoring. The players did nothing to cause this. They wanted to keep the system that was in place (a system that was making everyone rich). The owners want more, so they locked out the players.

urethrafranklin · Jul 8, 2011

<div style="text-align: left;">the cities pay for the stadiums. cowboys stadium is an exception, but even that was heavily funded by the city of arlington, who will probably never see a dime of that back</div>

GloryDawg · Jul 8, 2011

Great post.

boomboommsu · Jul 8, 2011

thatsbaseball · Jul 8, 2011

boomboommsu · Jul 8, 2011

Those poor owners, so desperate to sell their teams but can't find any buyers. Oh wait, it's not like that?

Just because you're jealous that they make that much money, doesn't make you smart.

GloryDawg · Jul 8, 2011

Eureka Dog · Jul 8, 2011

"How much is enough? Just one more dollar."

dawgs.sixpack · Jul 8, 2011

MStateFan22 said:
I said I wasn't real sure until then. But hearing a guy that makes 8 figures a year while playing a sport at a level that millions of people only dream of kinda hit the wrong button with me.<div>
</div><div>You seem kinda touchy on this subject. I think you need to go hug a rich person.</div>

i make plenty of money and will make plenty of money. the biggest illusion in today's society is that any common man can work hard and become "rich", and i mean really rich, not small town MS rich. you can work hard and make a good living and live comfortably, but i mean rich. when you realize that unless you stumble on the next great idea or win the lottery that you'll never ever be rich like an NFL owner, you stop worrying about an NFL owner adding a little more money to his ginormous bank account.

if you don't want players getting paid millions, then don't watch the games or go to the games or buy the jerseys. there are only 32 starting players in the world at each position, and in many cases less than 32 of them are really good. they have a commodity that virtually no one else has. so yeah, when you are one of the top 32 or 15 or 5 people in the world at whatever you do and people are spending $$$$ to watch you work (or for your products), then you shouldn't be taking paycuts cause the owner wants more money.

dawgs.sixpack · Jul 8, 2011

MStateFan22 said:
I said I wasn't real sure until then. But hearing a guy that makes 8 figures a year while playing a sport at a level that millions of people only dream of kinda hit the wrong button with me.<div>
</div><div>You seem kinda touchy on this subject. I think you need to go hug a rich person.</div>

i make plenty of money and will make plenty of money. the biggest illusion in today's society is that any common man can work hard and become "rich", and i mean really rich, not small town MS rich. you can work hard and make a good living and live comfortably, but i mean rich. when you realize that unless you stumble on the next great idea or win the lottery that you'll never ever be rich like an NFL owner, you stop worrying about an NFL owner adding a little more money to his ginormous bank account.

if you don't want players getting paid millions, then don't watch the games or go to the games or buy the jerseys. there are only 32 starting players in the world at each position, and in many cases less than 32 of them are really good. they have a commodity that virtually no one else has. so yeah, when you are one of the top 32 or 15 or 5 people in the world at whatever you do and people are spending $$$$ to watch you work (or for your products), then you shouldn't be taking paycuts cause the owner wants more money.

dawgs.sixpack · Jul 8, 2011

MStateFan22 said:
I said I wasn't real sure until then. But hearing a guy that makes 8 figures a year while playing a sport at a level that millions of people only dream of kinda hit the wrong button with me.<div>
</div><div>You seem kinda touchy on this subject. I think you need to go hug a rich person.</div>

i make plenty of money and will make plenty of money. the biggest illusion in today's society is that any common man can work hard and become "rich", and i mean really rich, not small town MS rich. you can work hard and make a good living and live comfortably, but i mean rich. when you realize that unless you stumble on the next great idea or win the lottery that you'll never ever be rich like an NFL owner, you stop worrying about an NFL owner adding a little more money to his ginormous bank account.

if you don't want players getting paid millions, then don't watch the games or go to the games or buy the jerseys. there are only 32 starting players in the world at each position, and in many cases less than 32 of them are really good. they have a commodity that virtually no one else has. so yeah, when you are one of the top 32 or 15 or 5 people in the world at whatever you do and people are spending $$$$ to watch you work (or for your products), then you shouldn't be taking paycuts cause the owner has hit a ceiling on revenue creation and is still looking to "grow" his business like it's a publicly traded fortune 500 company or something and stock prices are reliant on continued growth.

MStateFan22 · Jul 8, 2011

dawgs said:
MStateFan22 said:

I said I wasn't real sure until then. But hearing a guy that makes 8 figures a year while playing a sport at a level that millions of people only dream of kinda hit the wrong button with me.<div>
</div><div>You seem kinda touchy on this subject. I think you need to go hug a rich person.</div>

Click to expand...

i make plenty of money and will make plenty of money. the biggest illusion in today's society is that any common man can work hard and become "rich", and i mean really rich, not small town MS rich. you can work hard and make a good living and live comfortably, but i mean rich. when you realize that unless you stumble on the next great idea or win the lottery that you'll never ever be rich like an NFL owner, you stop worrying about an NFL owner adding a little more money to his ginormous bank account.

if you don't want players getting paid millions, then don't watch the games or go to the games or buy the jerseys. there are only 32 starting players in the world at each position, and in many cases less than 32 of them are really good. they have a commodity that virtually no one else has. so yeah, when you are one of the top 32 or 15 or 5 people in the world at whatever you do and people are spending $$$$ to watch you work (or for your products), then you shouldn't be taking paycuts cause the owner has hit a ceiling on revenue creation and is still looking to "grow" his business like it's a publicly traded fortune 500 company or something and stock prices are reliant on continued growth.

I'm not sure why you brought up that whole paragraph about the common man. I did not say anything about common men becoming rich. If a common man works hard and becomes rich then he's not really a common man. He would be higher than the common man.

Where did I say that I had a problem with players getting paid millions? I don't have a problem with anyone trying make more money. The only thing i said i had a problem with was with AP comparing NFL players to slavery. Sorry you wasted all your time on that long post. Learn how to read and maybe it won't happen again.

dogfan96 · Jul 8, 2011

eurotrash · Jul 8, 2011

thatsbaseball wrote:[/i]Hey moron[/i]

Wow. You must have been on the high school debate
team.

Do you have a clue how many people have been
forced from "their specific trade" in this economy ?[/i]

Actually I
do. We’ve lost over 5 million
middle-class jobs over the past decade.And the financial crisis has crippled the construction industry and
caused a cascade of job losses. And we have a record number of people on
long-term unemployment. I can explain
the role of well-connected special interests and their allies in D.C. who
helped our economy collapse. Let me
know if you’d like to argue about the impact of the repeal of Glass Steagall,
the corrupt practices of executives at Fanny and Freddy, the explosive growth of
the over-the-counter derivatives market, the failure of the ratings agencies to
properly evaluate CDOs and other investments,the foolish promotion of home ownership for the poor and especially poor
minorities, the excessive and off budget costs of wars abroad, federal policies that allow illegal immigration to flourish… I could go on. My two graduate degrees from State have
served me well.

Why the hell does anyone owe these geniuses the
right to practice "their specific trade" ?[/i]

A
right?? No one actually owes them
anything but I support the free market over a cartel of billionaires (about
half of the owners) granted special privileges and access to the public teat
who then set up barriers to prevent labor participation. And they are protected from anti-trust laws. Lovely. My apologies for supporting capitalism and the right of
Americans to sell their labor as they choose or to set up just about any
business they want to. Sounds like I’ll have to change and become an Obama
supporter. There is a reason the US Chamber of Commerce gives Barney Frank a higher rating than Ron Paul. Big business doesn't support free markets and NFL teams are big business.


BTW, I know many
players are over-paid, spoiled brats. I
don’t particularly care for them. But
on this issue where both sides are unsavory, I support the players. And I don’t
particularly like labor unions. If you
think this is a simplistic labor vs. management issue then you need an
education. Side with the owners all you want but don't call anyone a moron for disagreeing. NFL owners would import
illegal aliens to play if they could get away with it. 

Why the hellwhen the rest of society is in
a survival mode are these guys entitled to do exactlywhat they want they
want to do ANDname the price they`re going to do it at ?[/i]

Nice.
That’s clearly not hyperbole. Oh
noes, Americans have gone all Bear
Grillz, or perhaps Les Stroud, or maybe even the barefooted fat dude and his
ex-army buddy. The economy has been tough on many, especially men. But others have done fine (Wall Street, Big Business).
I guess you should look for me to be in
survival mode tonight when I’m grilling porterhouses on my big green egg. I hope I survive the cheesecake for dessert
(it’s quite delicious). I’ll be sure
to avoid the Death by Chocolate cake, though.

And I never wrote that
players are entitled to do exactly what they want. Who is? But they do have
a right to attempt to play football professionally and to negotiate a salary.

If they don`t want to work for "the
man" then they should join the rest of the real world and get a real job. [/i]

Who
is the man? Your sentence really makes
no sense (and I’m supposed to be the moron).You tossed out a couple of vapid clichés that have no fixed meaning (the
man, the real world, a real job).Professional sports are not part of the real world? It’s not a real job? I thought Green Bay won a real championship recently. My bad.Your cleverly articulated, well-reasoned response has won the day. I concede.

Now time for a donation to the sixpack.

thatsbaseball · Jul 8, 2011

What if12 mega billionaires decided to form an international football league and just basically came in and hand picked the players they wanted from the NFL and outbid their current employers for their services ?Given the factthat theplayers` leaving would hurt the owners,their team mates and the taxpayers who built the lavish stadiums in which they perform , would the chosenplayershave the right to take care of themselves and their families and take the larger salaries? edited to add: as they become free agents because I can only imagine your inevitable rant about contracts

klerushund · Jul 8, 2011

RonnyAtmosphere said:
...I know if I played a sport where every game I played I risk the potential of full body paralysis, shortened life span due to getting the 17 knocked out of me for 3 hours straight & excruciating pain that would haunt me everyday for the last 50 years of my life, I would be depending on the warm-hearted kindness of my billionaire owner to have my best interests in mind.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/11599/11599

If any of you (or me) ever played in the NFL, after you see the inner machinations of whatever organization you sign with, you would be begging to join the player's union.

If the players don't like the risks of professional football they are more than welcome to start punching the 17ing clock somewhere else for less than a tithe of what they are getting now. Don't try and sell that BS around here. I got a 17ing calculator for any football player that would rather give it a go at accounting. How many will take me up on that offer?<div>
</div><div>17 unions. 17 em all.

</div>

eurotrash · Jul 9, 2011

dawgs.sixpack · Jul 9, 2011

thatsbaseball said:
What if12 mega billionaires decided to form an international football league and just basically came in and hand picked the players they wanted from the NFL and outbid their current employers for their services ?Given the factthat theplayers` leaving would hurt the owners,their team mates and the taxpayers who built the lavish stadiums in which they perform , would the chosenplayershave the right to take care of themselves and their families and take the larger salaries? edited to add: as they become free agents because I can only imagine your inevitable rant about contracts

if a new league started and actually bought up all the elite players for higher salaries, then yeah, i can't blame them for leaving. not just because of the money, but because they will also be playing in the elite league. the nfl will no longer be the elite league for professional football. and if essentially the 12 best players at every position consolidate into a super league, then i think you'd see a majority of the fans move to the new league and the nfl would start losing money left and right.

so if what you are getting at is that the nfl only makes money because it has the elite football players, then i agree, and the nfl wouldn't continue to succeed and be hugely popular using "replacement" players or whatever.

beachbumdawg · Jul 9, 2011

nfm

drunkernhelldawg · Jul 9, 2011

Bringing working at McDonalds into this discussion is pretty far out there. Training camp for burger flippers?

NewTweederEndzoneDance · Jul 9, 2011

dubmass

eurotrash · Jul 9, 2011

St. Louis built the Rams a domed stadium and gave the Rams 100% of the
revenue from luxury boxes, club seats, concessions, a guarantee of 85%
attendance, and options to build even more boxes, plus 75% of all
stadium advertising sales. The Rams 30-year lease was called by one
owner "the mother of all stadium deals"--until the next deal was
struck. http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=208

Taxpayers owe the Rams if the stadium is half full but they won't get to watch the game on TV. Lovely. And Arizona:

The Cardinals' new "multipurpose stadium" will be paid for and
operated using other people's money -- primarily $1 billion in taxpayer
subsidies.

_________________________________________________How could a medium-size business that generates only about $30
million in local sales be worth as much as $700 million? And how could
this business extract $1 billion in public subsidies?A New Times examination of the NFL's finances and the league's impact on Arizona provides some clues, including:• Despite its roots in competition on the playing field, the National
Football League operates as a powerful business cartel that restricts
the supply of teams. This concerted action generates monopoly profits at
the expense of millions of taxpayers, many of whom couldn't care less
about the game; and football fans, who are forced to pay above-market
ticket prices.http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2002-01-31/news/national-football-cartel/

There's only one sensible response to this: unions are evil. Does this whole sordid affair really fit neatly in a liberal vs. conservative, left vs. right, Democrat vs. Republican template? Maybe the high school graduates I worship on talk radio can tell me what my views should be. Please don't ask me to think out of my comfort zone. It hurts.

So how greedy are the NFL owners?

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