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So is it time.....to change the...

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catsattackfor3

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or even pre-determined neutral site doubleheaders throughout the state would be nice (places like ISU/Joliet Stadium/NIU (on off years)North Central College/Toyota Park just to name a few ideas)
 
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ramblinman_rivals165935

All-Conference
Jul 18, 2001
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EdgyTim said:
Home field deal with the IHSA playoffs?

Personally? I'm fine with say the first two rounds with the current system....heck even the quarterfinals...yet once we get to semi's? High seed host end of story.
Click to expand...

What is seeding supposed to accomplish?

Generally, it is supposed to lessen the risk of eliminating stronger teams in the early rounds.. Stronger teams playing weaker teams in the early rounds helps to ensure those stronger teams' survival. If the seeding is accurate, then the stronger teams with the better seeds survive to play each other in the later rounds.

Assuming that immediately preceding paragraph is correct in its supposition, what is the purpose of the IHSA meddling with that process by rewarding home field advantage to schools that upset their opponents with better seeds? I simply fail to see the logic in any of it.

#1 seed Loyola will play two of the first four rounds of playoff games away from home. It just so happens that those two games are the quarters and semis. Conceivably, a different #1 seed could play all four games at home if the better seeds prevail all the way in its side of the bracket.

Why the IHSA would allow for the randomness of the above scenario is mind boggling.
 
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LHSTigers94

All-Conference
Oct 25, 2004
3,173
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catsattackfor3 said:
or even pre-determined neutral site doubleheaders throughout the state would be nice (places like ISU/Joliet Stadium/NIU (on off years)North Central College/Toyota Park just to name a few ideas)
Click to expand...

Except if you are southern school based on SIUC not being mentioned as a semi sight.
 
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TheDude11

Freshman
Oct 12, 2015
116
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Higher seed should host every round. They earned it in the first 9 weeks of the season. It isn't a playoff team's God given, inalienable right to host a playoff game. Why on earth should a lower seed ever host? And keep semis at the schools. Nothing like watching a semifinal game with 10,000+ people at a HS field. Like RB/JCA in 2001 or MS/Loyola 2009.
 
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HHSTigerFan

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May 29, 2001
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The problem is the seeding system... ramblin is mad because Loyola has to travel for quarters and semis and I get his point, Loyola was the dominant team this season is that 8A bracket.. well hasnt Phillips been equally as dominant in their 4A bracket and they too travel in both semis and quarters.. One school got the short end of the hosting formula, the other in the seeding formula.. Seems like you have to fix both of those problems or neither of them
 
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eireog

All-Conference
Oct 6, 2007
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I said it last year I'd like to see the semis at a neutral site. If you can't do that higher seed should host the semi round.
 
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Catch--22

Senior
Sep 29, 2006
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To me, there is nothing better than a quarterfinal or semifinal date at an actual high school… That atmosphere cannot be matched. So much better than the atmosphere at the championship games alternating between the concrete mausoleum in Champaign and the tin mausoleum in DeKalb. When I win the lottery, I'll build an intimate 15,000 seat facility for big games and titles. Until then, stay on campus.

Let's not forget that the seeding has nothing to do with how good a team is… It's only a reflection of the record and their opponents wins. Because of this, I think the way they do it is fair... especially in an era of 1-32 seeding in 7A/8A
 
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GWRandy

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Nov 21, 2015
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I agree with Catch-22. If seeding was actually a true indicator of team ranking, the change might might make sense. Otherwise, current system is fine. Not all 9-0 conference champions are equally deserving.

In fact the playoff point system is biased against teams that play the most conference games against common opponents. A conference like the NIC-10 can only achieve a predetermined maximum number of playoff points because the common opponents will generate 5 wins and 5 losses each week (so there are only 45 wins to allocate during the season to the 10 teams). A 9-0 team in the NIC-10 will only have 36 playoff points.

Smaller collections of teams that play a common set of opponents (like the CCL-Blue with only 4 common opponents) can provide the opportunity for many more playoff points than conferences with a greater number of common opponents.

Higher seeds are not always more deserving of hosting a semifinal against teams that have hosted fewer playoff games.
 
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MC63

All-Conference
May 29, 2001
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I agree with GW and Catch -- the seeds are poorly determined and there's nothing like a high school campus in the Falll.

I loved watching the Caravan at HC, HS, NC, Nequa, Woodstock, McHenry and several other schools I would never have gotten to see
 
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capnbillhitters

Senior
May 18, 2015
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Catch--22 said:
To me, there is nothing better than a quarterfinal or semifinal date at an actual high school… That atmosphere cannot be matched. So much better than the atmosphere at the championship games alternating between the concrete mausoleum in Champaign and the tin mausoleum in DeKalb. When I win the lottery, I'll build an intimate 15,000 seat facility for big games and titles. Until then, stay on campus.

Let's not forget that the seeding has nothing to do with how good a team is… It's only a reflection of the record and their opponents wins. Because of this, I think the way they do it is fair... especially in an era of 1-32 seeding in 7A/8A
Click to expand...

Hate the mausoleums as well. Neutral site doesn't need to be oversized fields. Schools like Barrington or HC spend a ton of money in creating great environments for football. Using various criteria: parking, visitor bleachers, press facility, proximity etc. you could award schools the right to host the two semifinal games for a given class. separate the games by an hour to let fans roll over and die hards can fill an afternoon with sizing up the two winners for the finals.

It might make some places upgrade their visitor facilities in hopes of securing a semi-host spot. It is one thing to improve your facilities for your fans, but chasing a hosting opportunity would carry benefit through the years for the visitors.

The hard part is the question of travel. I guess you could rotate years. In years where NIU hosts states, do some semis in Edwardsville. That facility could easily host this event and schools/Ihsa can budget for the travel. GW players and families had a blast last weekend and earning that trip by getting to semis would be fun.

Only limiter might be classification. May be tough to take this all the way down to 1A
 
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catsattackfor3

Freshman
Mar 2, 2011
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TheDude11 said:
Higher seed should host every round. They earned it in the first 9 weeks of the season. It isn't a playoff team's God given, inalienable right to host a playoff game. Why on earth should a lower seed ever host? And keep semis at the schools. Nothing like watching a semifinal game with 10,000+ people at a HS field. Like RB/JCA in 2001 or MS/Loyola 2009.
Click to expand...
It the schools that do not want to host every game....it means hiring personell week after week to manage the game. That is why the rule is in effect in the first place so the likelihood of a school hosting all 4 rounds is diminished
 
1

1111SouthFirst

All-American
Oct 7, 2006
17,704
9,587
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Catch--22 said:
To me, there is nothing better than a quarterfinal or semifinal date at an actual high school… That atmosphere cannot be matched. So much better than the atmosphere at the championship games alternating between the concrete mausoleum in Champaign and the tin mausoleum in DeKalb. When I win the lottery, I'll build an intimate 15,000 seat facility for big games and titles. Until then, stay on campus.

Let's not forget that the seeding has nothing to do with how good a team is… It's only a reflection of the record and their opponents wins. Because of this, I think the way they do it is fair... especially in an era of 1-32 seeding in 7A/8A
Click to expand...

Agree with this. If home field was given to the higher-seeded team every week, everyone is going to be moaning about how the seeding was determined. As Rosanne Rosannadanna used to say, "Well, Jane, it just goes to show you, it's always something — if it ain't one thing, it's another."
 
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USD24

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May 29, 2001
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catsattackfor3 said:
It the schools that do not want to host every game....it means hiring personell week after week to manage the game. That is why the rule is in effect in the first place so the likelihood of a school hosting all 4 rounds is diminished
Click to expand...
I think you're crazy if you think a school isn't interested in hosting a playoff game every week. Hiring personnel to work a home playoff game has nothing to do why this rule is in effect.
 
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catsattackfor3

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Mar 2, 2011
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USD24 said:
I think you're crazy if you think a school isn't interested in hosting a playoff game every week. Hiring personnel to work a home playoff game has nothing to do why this rule is in effect.
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absolutely not crazy this is indeed a fact why the by-law was put in place. it is so a school does not have to repeatedly host a playoff game which puts stress on school person ell. It is a lot of work for a school from week to week to host - hire crowd control, Building and grounds workers, local police, etc.....ask any AD in the state. the IHSA reimburses the school but the IHSA takes the profit unlike a regular season game.
 
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USD24

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catsattackfor3 said:
absolutely not crazy this is indeed a fact why the by-law was put in place. it is so a school does not have to repeatedly host a playoff game which puts stress on school person ell. It is a lot of work for a school from week to week to host - hire crowd control, Building and grounds workers, local police, etc.....ask any AD in the state. the IHSA reimburses the school but the IHSA takes the profit unlike a regular season game.
Click to expand...

I have talked to numerous AD's about this exact thing.....and I think you're crazy!
 
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catsattackfor3

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Mar 2, 2011
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USD24 said:
I have talked to numerous AD's about this exact thing.....and I think you're crazy!
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go ahead and think what you want .....we voted on the by-law many many years ago when it was passed - thought it was dumb idea but go talk to the suburban AD's and principals who propsed it and got it passed
 
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LHSTigers94

All-Conference
Oct 25, 2004
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catsattackfor3 said:
go ahead and think what you want .....we voted on the by-law many many years ago when it was passed - thought it was dumb idea but go talk to the suburban AD's and principals who propsed it and got it passed
Click to expand...

This was passed by the suburban AD's because they weren't in agreement with the seeding. Basically this rule allows a team like GW who obviously is much better than their 23rd seed get home games in the playoffs. No school in 4a or higher would have issue with hosting 4 playoffs games! They wouldn't have to hire staff after the first two as the town would be so excited that EVERYONE would volunteer.
 
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USD24

All-American
May 29, 2001
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catsattackfor3 said:
go ahead and think what you want .....we voted on the by-law many many years ago when it was passed - thought it was dumb idea but go talk to the suburban AD's and principals who propsed it and got it passed
Click to expand...
As I said, the AD's I have talked do would take as many home games as they could get. Don't know what else to tell you. As a group, they may have voted for the rules on playoff games, but it was not because they didn't want the trouble of hosting games.
 
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catsattackfor3

Freshman
Mar 2, 2011
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USD24 said:
As I said, the AD's I have talked do would take as many home games as they could get. Don't know what else to tell you. As a group, they may have voted for the rules on playoff games, but it was not because they didn't want the trouble of hosting games.
Click to expand...
the last time Ill say it the rational on the bylaw proposal was of the fact some (SOME) schools did not want to have to host games week after week. it put stress on the host school week after week (A possible 4 more home games) and some schools fields were abysmal after weeks of hosting in November. Also at the time there was a WED. game int he first round then a Saturday game. A school could host 3 home games in a week back then (the final regular season game and then a Wed. playoff game then the Saturday playoff game. This happened about 18 years ago. I was surprised it passed but it did by the principals and has remained ever since. Now some may have voted on it because of the seeding etc but it passed. DO you know how easy it is to play a road game from an administrator stand point?? Get the team on the bus and the administrator shows up at the game.

No one has brought a a proposal to change it since and if they did it obviously has not passed. If your AD friends want to change have their principal write a proposal with the IHSA and see if can pass.....the field turf most schools have now will eliminate the tearing up the field argument in a lot of places. I am sick of arguing about it but that was the proposals rational, our principal vote against it.
 
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USD24

All-American
May 29, 2001
5,493
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catsattackfor3 said:
the last time Ill say it the rational on the bylaw proposal was of the fact some (SOME) schools did not want to have to host games week after week. it put stress on the host school week after week (A possible 4 more home games) and some schools fields were abysmal after weeks of hosting in November. Also at the time there was a WED. game int he first round then a Saturday game. A school could host 3 home games in a week back then (the final regular season game and then a Wed. playoff game then the Saturday playoff game. This happened about 18 years ago. I was surprised it passed but it did by the principals and has remained ever since. Now some may have voted on it because of the seeding etc but it passed. DO you know how easy it is to play a road game from an administrator stand point?? Get the team on the bus and the administrator shows up at the game.

No one has brought a a proposal to change it since and if they did it obviously has not passed. If your AD friends want to change have their principal write a proposal with the IHSA and see if can pass.....the field turf most schools have now will eliminate the tearing up the field argument in a lot of places. I am sick of arguing about it but that was the proposals rational, our principal vote against it.
Click to expand...

SOME is the key word. I just don't believe that was the main reason for the rule.....and if you don't want to argue, what the heck are you doing replying on this forum? ;)
 
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capnbillhitters

Senior
May 18, 2015
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USD24 said:
SOME is the key word. I just don't believe that was the main reason for the rule.....and if you don't want to argue, what the heck are you doing replying on this forum? ;)
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It could be that publics feel differently than privates. I have heard horror stories about a prior AD hating the football program at GW and doing everything possible to undermine it. If that AD were voting, I could see where minimizing the impact of hosting would come into play.

Not all ADs are fans of football. I won't generalize here, but the former GW AD was female.
 
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moebias

Redshirt
Nov 20, 2001
30
33
0
capnbillhitters said:
Hate the mausoleums as well. Neutral site doesn't need to be oversized fields. Schools like Barrington or HC spend a ton of money in creating great environments for football. Using various criteria: parking, visitor bleachers, press facility, proximity etc. you could award schools the right to host the two semifinal games for a given class. separate the games by an hour to let fans roll over and die hards can fill an afternoon with sizing up the two winners for the finals.

It might make some places upgrade their visitor facilities in hopes of securing a semi-host spot. It is one thing to improve your facilities for your fans, but chasing a hosting opportunity would carry benefit through the years for the visitors.

The hard part is the question of travel. I guess you could rotate years. In years where NIU hosts states, do some semis in Edwardsville. That facility could easily host this event and schools/Ihsa can budget for the travel. GW players and families had a blast last weekend and earning that trip by getting to semis would be fun.

Only limiter might be classification. May be tough to take this all the way down to 1A
Click to expand...

Looking at the GW Stadium from the air on Google maps it looks like an relic from the past, small stands, light on parking and a grass field that is likely sub optimal this time of year.

Its a real shame to play such an important game in such an antiquated facility. The IHSA should have minimum hosting requirements in terms of facilities in the event you are going to host a game of this nature. This place certainly does not fit the minimum requirements when so many other good options are available in the area
 
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capnbillhitters

Senior
May 18, 2015
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moebias said:
Looking at the GW Stadium from the air on Google maps it looks like an relic from the past, small stands, light on parking and a grass field that is likely sub optimal this time of year.

Its a real shame to play such an important game in such an antiquated facility. The IHSA should have minimum hosting requirements in terms of facilities in the event you are going to host a game of this nature. This place certainly does not fit the minimum requirements when so many other good options are available in the area
Click to expand...

I'm guessing you know me all too well and are just trying to have some fun and get a rise out of me.
 
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Wassup13_rivals219252

All-Conference
Nov 9, 2002
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capnbillhitters said:
I like the neutral site for semis. And agree with the current system for Rounds 1-3
Click to expand...

I agree too. Does this mean we would get all the semi's televised? Also how would you do this with 16 semi games? I think ISU or NIU would be great venues and have 4 games each day Wed thru Sat.

Also in many of the classes we still don't have 1-32 seeds like the largest classes. We would need 1-32 seeding to guarantee the best semi matchups possible.

Wassup
 
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