SO THIS IS WHAT THE END LOOKS LIKE

PSUSignore

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Winning a National Championship requires (some might say demands) alumni‘s, the fan base and University to all be on the same page. A great example is Michigan. Whether you hate them or not Jim Harbaugh did what was necessary to win a National Championship and they succeeded. Every year teams like OSU, Alabama and Georgia are led by coaches like Harbaugh who will do what ever it takes to win it all. Don’t let anyone BS you into believing anything different, they’re going to do what it takes to win it all. Whether you loved Coach Franklin or hated him the one common denominator is that he was never going to be that guy. At the end of the season the AD will will divulge two or three HC names on who he’s considering hiring. Those names will immediately tell you how serious the program is about winning another NC. JMHO
I think PSU is extremely serious about winning a title. One of my concerns in the post Paterno world was that PSU was going to continue to try to win like they did in the Paterno era, expecting more with less, which IMO is not really possible in today's college football. But I think PSU has taken a few actions that are public statements that they intend to compete with the best programs:

1. Hiring Franklin. At the time he was one of, if not the biggest, coaching commodity in CFB. PSU went and got him and showed a willingness to spend what it takes to hire one of the most in demand coaches on the market. At the time, I did not expect PSU to spend what it took to get him.

2. Hiring Knowles. They hired the most sought after DC in the sport and made him the highest paid coordinator in CFB history. Regardless of his performance to date, that is a move made by programs that are serious about winning and have secured the investments to back it up.

3. Firing Franklin. Getting rid of a coach that routinely wins you 9-10 games a season and is a great cultural fit for your university is a sign that above average isn't necessarily good enough. I do think if Franklin beats UCLA and NW he still has a job today. But when you ask your boss and boosters to go all in for a title in 2025 and follow that up with what might be the worst performance in your 11 year career, there are going to be consequences. There wasn't a single game this season where the team looked like a championship team, every game was a struggle. Despite that, I think Franklin can make it to the end of the season but once the locker room was lost and the home fan interactions became toxic, something had to be done. Letting Franklin stay longer risked setting back the program long term, making it harder to recover. Additionally Kraft has to sell new premium stadium seats, we can't risk losing all of the recruits, we can't risk boosters jumping ship. All of this is rationale for them to fire him now, but the action is still symbolic and indicative of a program that is willing to take steps to reach an elite level.

The next big statement is hopefully whoever Kraft hires. I feel like Rhule is the "safe" hire and I would argue it doesn't show you're trying to become elite. Financially he may be the optimal candidate given the stadium renovation and costs. He may take the job for less money than some others, may not even have a Nebraska buyout if leaving for PSU, is probably willing to keep many of the PSU letterman on the current staff, he probably opens some NIL wallets of old time fans that previously weren't available. But his big game record isn't what you want and the media narrative will immediately become about why you fired Franklin for a guy with an even worse record against ranked teams.

The problem is there are only a handful of names that would make a splash, some of which aren't a good fit for PSU (Dabo, Urban) and some of which are unrealistic because there is no chance they are leaving their current jobs (Smart, Lanning, Day, Saban). Of the names that have been floated so far, I think only Cignetti and Freeman might even be semi realistic hires that would make a splash. I think both are a longshot, with Cignetti maybe being a bit more possible. Both will likely be coaching into the playoffs and PSU needs a coach in place before signing day. Cignetti is old and has the backing of Mark Cuban, so he may not want to leave. Freeman has ND money and an easier path to the playoff being an independent.

Given all of this does Kraft hire an up and coming coordinator without head coach experience? It wouldn't be a splash, but the guys I'd put on that list are Will Stein, Joe Brady, and Brian Hartline.

But my fear is Rhule becomes the guy, he performs much like Franklin winning 9-10 games a year, and we ride that for a few years until in a better spot financially to make a huge splash hire and then reassess the situation at that time.
 

LMTLION

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I have been thinking the same thing, something seemed off. I suppose it's possible that the Oregon loss really crushed his spirit, but that's still just a game and the season goals were still all ahead of the team despite the loss. It feels like there's something else going on.
I was at the FIU game and noticed during pregame/warmups and the game itself that we looked very much ‘off.’ Bad body language, most were super tight, Drew looked stiff and inaccurate…. There is more to the story of this team. I listened to most of the podcast referenced in one of the other threads and perhaps NIL distribution was part of it as well. That can certainly cause dysfunction, as can the pressure of living up to the expectations. But Franklin himself look like the Franklin of 2020. There’s more to it certainly
 

NewEra 2026

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I think maybe I was trying to say something to the effect of being a legitimate contender. That means winning a big one now and then. It all caved in this year due to being all but eliminated from the playoffs with sky high expectations.
This is where I was at. I don’t expect Penn State to win every game in which it is an underdog. I don’t expect Penn State to win more games than it loses as an underdog. But dammit, Penn State should be able to pull an upset once every couple of years or so. That is not too much to ask.
 
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I don't feel bad for James. He gets a 50 million dollar parting gift. As a former PSU Football Fan of 60 years, I feel bad for the PSU Football Program. I'm embarrased for the PSU community and its lack of civility. Admittedly, its on me for being naive and thinking PSU was different than all the other sleazy programs. Again, they humiliated Franklin and forced Kraft to act. Only time will tell, was it worth it? I seriously doubt it. The ball is now rolling down hill. Welcome to Nebraska.
No.....Franklin humiliated himself by refusing to adapt to skill set of his players, by refusing to switch strategies to attack different teams and to play finesse and rarely power running.
 

PSUHarry

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You didnt asked me, but ill throw my 2 cents in.

Yes. Kraft better nail this hire. His job is on the line also. As it also was had he decided to keep Franklin after the loss to NW.

As someone else said, the next hire will speak volumes about the schools commitment to win a natty.
Or it will speak volumes of incompetence. I will support whomever is chosen. We all need to get behind the new coach.
 

PSUHarry

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Your analogy is meaningless, unless meeting the demands of your "sales plan" would place him as the best salesman to ever sell ... because Franklin's "80-85%" placed PSU as one of the top 10 programs in the nation over his tenure ... so if he reached 100%, no doubt he would be winning a Natty virtually every year and would be considered the no-doubt-GOAT of coaching. Perhaps, if your analogy IS accurate, you were setting unreasonable expectations, and that's a failure on your part, not his.

Oh, and why do you think you were unable to mentor your sales folks, repeatedly, as you stated, to achieve their goals? Seems like it was a habitual lack of success, at which point you need to look at leadership to find the source of the problem ... correct?
Most of the time when someone gets fired, it's performance as well as other things like not seeing eye to eye on strategy and not having the same vision on how to get there.
 
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PSUHarry

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It might have been unreasonable for Franklin to think this was his most talented team ever given our weakness at DT & LB plus the unknowns at WR.

I think we win both UCLA & NW if we had Rojas but we still had higher rated talent across the board than those teams. Something went terribly wrong. Allar looked hesitant and confused. My opinion is that he was overcoached and never allowed his instincts to take over. Singleton got worse. So did the OL. Those are mysteries. Even AJ Harris getting smoked for a TD is something that didn't happen last year. Knowles refusing to adjust his 4-2-5 defense after getting burned up the middle by two less talented teams makes no sense to me. Clock management before halftime vs UCLA was a mystery even to the announcers. Players out of position to stop an onsides kick. Not rushing the punter who ran the clock out in the end zone. The number of penalties. The list goes on. This was a total collapse of epic proportions.
It was interesting that Harris got pulled after giving up that TD. Knowles did adjust, we played a decent amount of 4-3 against NW, we just don't have the horses. Deluca is neither strong or fast, and Wylie is still learning and was often late to the game. Losing Rojas was huge.

Rushing the punter would have added 4-5 seconds at the most. Maybe time for one last play at the most.

Penalties were awful. Kids heads were not in the game. Unreal we couldn't ever get a holding call on DDS and Harvey at times.

I don't think the kids quit, I don't think the locker room was "lost" if defined in the traditional sense. I think the kids played hard. I think perhaps we weren't that good talent wise in general other than DDS, Allen, and Wheatley. I think the kids constantly missed assignments. Some of the film study is really telling.

We never were able to replace Abduhl Carter and Warren with a collective effort. Those guys covered alot of warts, we just wanted to believe we were really good, but the truth was we had 2 elite players and a lot of ham and eggers.

Face it, the team fooleded us, the coaches, the media and themselves. If they were/are good, it's evident that the coaching staff and the kids couldn't handle the pressure of being the hunted. They never recovered emotionally from the Oregon loss. That game was circled on the calendar since January.
 

PSUHarry

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Why did he try to renegotiate before this season which promised a possible championship? Shouldn't he have won himself a championship, then renegotiated? He put the cart before the horse. It seems he wanted the money without delivering the championship PSU wanted.
Kraft wanted to see a big game won before coming to the table I think.
 

Moogy

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Let's all recall ... we went through something like this with Franklin once before ...

2020, we lost all the games to start the season ... granted, we all gave him and the squad a pass because of the whole covid situation ... but we were expected to win, and didn't. We failed a lot. Nothing made sense. The team was rudderless. It was "dead." Eventually, they came around.

Yet, in 2021, we were mediocre, yet again. Finished 7-6.

And then we went on a 3 year run of being very good to very, very good.

And here we are again ... not living up to expectations, with accusations that the team had been lost.

Now, whether or not that's a "good" thing ... in that, we rebounded under Franklin before, so it's not like this was a "this is the end of the program and our awesomeness if we stick with Franklin" situation ... or a "bad" thing ... in that, you think we shouldn't have to suffer through the occasional stinker or two of seasons ... well, that I can't decide for you.
 

PSUHarry

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What the point of your reply was. It was a correct statement, but didn't seem to add anything new to the discussion.
The point was, it's probably not just about the poor record against ranked teams.

Thank you for the critique on my comment. LoL
 

bdgan

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One of my biggest questions is if they already had a replacement in mind when the fired Franklin. Allowing this to linger reminds me of what happened after the Sandusky mess. They selected O'Brien but he stayed with the Patriots until after the Superbowl. During that time we lost recruit after recruit. It sure would have been nice to have a coach who was trying to hold things together during that time instead of remaining with his existing team.

There's zero chance that Cignetti would walk away from his undefeated team before the end of the season. By then we will have lost a significant amount of talent. Would Hartline leave OSU mid season? Perhaps someone like Meyer would be readily available.

Some will say we can replace whoever leaves in the portal. I strongly disagree. I think we can use the portal to fix our weaknesses but I'm skeptical that we can quickly buy half of our team after the process has been well underway.. Sanders did that at Colorado and there was some short term excitement but other than that it didn't really work. Cignetti brought 9 players from his James Madison roster and it worked out but I think their success was a fluke.
 
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bdgan

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I think PSU is extremely serious about winning a title. One of my concerns in the post Paterno world was that PSU was going to continue to try to win like they did in the Paterno era, expecting more with less, which IMO is not really possible in today's college football. But I think PSU has taken a few actions that are public statements that they intend to compete with the best programs:

1. Hiring Franklin. At the time he was one of, if not the biggest, coaching commodity in CFB. PSU went and got him and showed a willingness to spend what it takes to hire one of the most in demand coaches on the market. At the time, I did not expect PSU to spend what it took to get him.

2. Hiring Knowles. They hired the most sought after DC in the sport and made him the highest paid coordinator in CFB history. Regardless of his performance to date, that is a move made by programs that are serious about winning and have secured the investments to back it up.

3. Firing Franklin. Getting rid of a coach that routinely wins you 9-10 games a season and is a great cultural fit for your university is a sign that above average isn't necessarily good enough. I do think if Franklin beats UCLA and NW he still has a job today. But when you ask your boss and boosters to go all in for a title in 2025 and follow that up with what might be the worst performance in your 11 year career, there are going to be consequences. There wasn't a single game this season where the team looked like a championship team, every game was a struggle. Despite that, I think Franklin can make it to the end of the season but once the locker room was lost and the home fan interactions became toxic, something had to be done. Letting Franklin stay longer risked setting back the program long term, making it harder to recover. Additionally Kraft has to sell new premium stadium seats, we can't risk losing all of the recruits, we can't risk boosters jumping ship. All of this is rationale for them to fire him now, but the action is still symbolic and indicative of a program that is willing to take steps to reach an elite level.

The next big statement is hopefully whoever Kraft hires. I feel like Rhule is the "safe" hire and I would argue it doesn't show you're trying to become elite. Financially he may be the optimal candidate given the stadium renovation and costs. He may take the job for less money than some others, may not even have a Nebraska buyout if leaving for PSU, is probably willing to keep many of the PSU letterman on the current staff, he probably opens some NIL wallets of old time fans that previously weren't available. But his big game record isn't what you want and the media narrative will immediately become about why you fired Franklin for a guy with an even worse record against ranked teams.

The problem is there are only a handful of names that would make a splash, some of which aren't a good fit for PSU (Dabo, Urban) and some of which are unrealistic because there is no chance they are leaving their current jobs (Smart, Lanning, Day, Saban). Of the names that have been floated so far, I think only Cignetti and Freeman might even be semi realistic hires that would make a splash. I think both are a longshot, with Cignetti maybe being a bit more possible. Both will likely be coaching into the playoffs and PSU needs a coach in place before signing day. Cignetti is old and has the backing of Mark Cuban, so he may not want to leave. Freeman has ND money and an easier path to the playoff being an independent.

Given all of this does Kraft hire an up and coming coordinator without head coach experience? It wouldn't be a splash, but the guys I'd put on that list are Will Stein, Joe Brady, and Brian Hartline.

But my fear is Rhule becomes the guy, he performs much like Franklin winning 9-10 games a year, and we ride that for a few years until in a better spot financially to make a huge splash hire and then reassess the situation at that time.
I can't imagine Ruhle walking out on his team until the end of the season. By then a lot of recruits will be gone.
 

bdgan

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Face it, the team fooleded us, the coaches, the media and themselves. If they were/are good, it's evident that the coaching staff and the kids couldn't handle the pressure of being the hunted. They never recovered emotionally from the Oregon loss. That game was circled on the calendar since January.
Allar was the same as last year.
For some reason Singleton and the OL have been worse.
The secondary misses Reed & Kimber but they have good young talent. Somehow they've been worse.
LB was a concern after losing King but we got Campbell. Still the LBs were worse vs UCLA and now we lost Rojas.
Warren was a big loss but I expected more from Dinkins, Reynolds, and Rappleyea. We didn't even target a TE vs NW.
Perhaps we expected too much from DDS but he blocked two kicks.
DT has been an even bigger problem than we feared.

The coaches have done a miserable job. They couldn't manage the play calling or the time outs. Everything has been panicked and confused. I'll never forget listening to announcers saying "what are the doing? and I've never seen anything like this." Penalties have been ridiculous. Knowles made no adjustments for quick release passes or Rojas injury.

At the biggest moments in all 3 losses Franklin went with Singleton on 3rd and 4th and short. I really think he didn't want to hurt Singleton's NFL prospects by giving Allen more minutes but in the process he hurt the team AND Singleton's NFL prospects.
 
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bdgan

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Let's all recall ... we went through something like this with Franklin once before ...

2020, we lost all the games to start the season ... granted, we all gave him and the squad a pass because of the whole covid situation ... but we were expected to win, and didn't. We failed a lot. Nothing made sense. The team was rudderless. It was "dead." Eventually, they came around.

Yet, in 2021, we were mediocre, yet again. Finished 7-6.

And then we went on a 3 year run of being very good to very, very good.

And here we are again ... not living up to expectations, with accusations that the team had been lost.

Now, whether or not that's a "good" thing ... in that, we rebounded under Franklin before, so it's not like this was a "this is the end of the program and our awesomeness if we stick with Franklin" situation ... or a "bad" thing ... in that, you think we shouldn't have to suffer through the occasional stinker or two of seasons ... well, that I can't decide for you.
I'm not sure we were very, very good last year. We lost 3 games, our best win was Boise State, and we were lucky to beat USC & Minny.
 
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BCS PSU

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I'm not sure we were very, very good last year. Our best win was Boise State and we were lucky to beat USC & Minny.
We probably weren't as good as our 13 wins, but it was a good team and, like all good teams do, it found ways to win some games that maybe it shouldn't have. Also, they may have played their best game the week after the OSU loss, which showed that that team had some maturity which this current team has shown that they don't. Finally, they also had two All Americas on that team. I would say that they were our best team since 2017 or 2019.
 

Moogy

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I'm not sure we were very, very good last year. Our best win was Boise State and we were lucky to beat USC & Minny.
Sucks to be you. I’m sure we were very, very good last year. Hey, speaking of last year ... you had us down for more losses ... kept doom and glooming the team ... so you should have been incredibly excited at Franklin's job of beating those teams you thought we were at risk of losing to, amirite, Eeyore?
 

bdgan

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Sucks to be you. I’m sure we were very, very good last year. Hey, speaking of last year ... you had us down for more losses ... kept doom and glooming the team ... so you should have been incredibly excited at Franklin's job of beating those teams you thought we were at risk of losing to, amirite, Eeyore?
IIRC I predicted PSU to finish either 10-2 or 9-3 last year. I predicted them to be 11-1 or 10-2 this year with a possibility of 9-3. What did you want me to say, that we were going to be undefeated and win the NC?
 

PSUAVLNC

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Yup...James Franklin is a really good person, awesome family man and his players loved him.

I try to be a really good person and I know my family loves me,

But nobody's hiring me to fly a passenger jet!!

That's real life, and that's how life is!
 

psuro

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This will be my only post on this subject matter. I have been moniotring the board the last few days, but decided to wait a few days as emotions were high - an expectedly so.

I missed the NW game because I had a family obligation and was shocked that they beat PSU. Like everyone else, I was pretty pi$$ed about it.
However, truth be told, I was surprised to hear CJF got fired. I had thought he had created some equity for himself by at least taking PSU to the heights it had - closer to a NC than at any time since Jan 2, 1995.

I am of the opinion that the vocal fanbase played a part in the decisionm, coupled with CJF's inability accurately convey what the issues are - he just seemed lost in the post game pressers. Utimately, the close losses to teams he was not supposed to beat came back to bite him after losing to teams he was supposed to defeat handily. Hence, the vocal fanbase.

I feel CJF did absolutely everything he could here. Maybe it was time to go, no matter what. After the first three games, it just looked like things were just not going PSU's way this year. He took PSU from a moribund program still reeling from sanctions and limited talent, to a team that was .....just so close....so many times. But that was not enough.

Under CJF, PSU had the 9th most wins in P5 from 2014-2024. There are 55 programs that would love to been in that position. His record against the top 10 was paltry, but he also won (most) of the games against teams he was supposed to beat. The 55 other programs can't say that.

I don't think CJF will stay on the sidelines for a long time. I do hope he will take some down time, recharge his batteries and take a look at some options that will come his way.

I think Terry Smith will do an admirable job. But, I don't think he is the guy for the long haul. A $700 Million committment to the Stadium, and Pat Kraft needs to make sure the fan base is just as excited about the guy on the sidelines as they are about the players on the field. No matter who comes in, it will be a faster "rebuild" job than when CJF got here, but it should be a name that will resonate loudly with the PSU community. The 2014 James Franklin for instance, would not qualify for the 2025 Penn State job - due in part to the work of 2014-2025 James Franklin.

The pressure is on Kraft. He absolutely has to nail this hire. He has to locate the fourth guy to start a football season as head coach at PSU since 1966. It won't be easy. And the success of this decision won't be felt at the press conference -it will be in 2 or 3 years, when the next guy is or is not successful and if James Franklin is or is not succesful at his next stop.

Because the next one who is on the chopping block with be Kraft himself.

FTG
 

PSUHarry

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Allar was the same as last year.
For some reason Singleton and the OL have been worse.
The secondary misses Reed & Kimber but they have good young talent. Somehow they've been worse.
LB was a concern after losing King but we got Campbell. Still the LBs were worse vs UCLA and now we lost Rojas.
Warren was a big loss but I expected more from Dinkins, Reynolds, and Rappleyea. We didn't even target a TE vs NW.
Perhaps we expected too much from DDS but he blocked two kicks.
DT has been an even bigger problem than we feared.

The coaches have done a miserable job. They couldn't manage the play calling or the time outs. Everything has been panicked and confused. I'll never forget listening to announcers saying "what are the doing? and I've never seen anything like this." Penalties have been ridiculous. Knowles made no adjustments for quick release passes or Rojas injury.

At the biggest moments in all 3 losses Franklin went with Singleton on 3rd and 4th and short. I really think he didn't want to hurt Singleton's NFL prospects by giving Allen more minutes but in the process he hurt the team AND Singleton's NFL prospects.
I didn't have a problem with the clock management for UCLA prior to the half. He wanted to cut it close as he knew we couldn't stop them. And the second half proved it. But I agree on the rest of what you said.
 
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bdgan

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I didn't have a problem with the clock management for UCLA prior to the half. He wanted to cut it close as he knew we couldn't stop them. And the second half proved it. But I agree on the rest of what you said.
We were down 24-7 and we had the ball at the UCLA 44 yd line with 2 minutes left in the half and time outs to use.


Singleton run for 1 yd, 2nd and 9, 1:55 remaining
Singleton run for 5 yds, 3rd and 4, 1:23 remaining
Allar run for 2 yds, 4th and 2, 1:04 remaining
Allar sacked, turnover on downs, 0:27 second remaining

So with 2 minutes remaining and needing a score we ran a minute and a half off the clock without using our time outs. The announcers said they were confused and had never seen anything like it.

Also notice than when we needed a couple of yards to get the first down we went with Singleton over Allen.
 

Headlock

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Fine. But a serious question for you. After posting the obligatory thanks to Franklin for all that he did for the program in his press release Kraft said that coaches at Penn State are held to a higher standard which is Big Ten and National Championships. Does that standard apply to Kraft’s tenure as AD if his hire turns out to be worse than Franklin.
He knows it does!!
 
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PSUHarry

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We were down 24-7 and we had the ball at the UCLA 44 yd line with 2 minutes left in the half and time outs to use.


Singleton run for 1 yd, 2nd and 9, 1:55 remaining
Singleton run for 5 yds, 3rd and 4, 1:23 remaining
Allar run for 2 yds, 4th and 2, 1:04 remaining
Allar sacked, turnover on downs, 0:27 second remaining

So with 2 minutes remaining and needing a score we ran a minute and a half off the clock without using our time outs. The announcers said they were confused and had never seen anything like it.

Also notice than when we needed a couple of yards to get the first down we went with Singleton over Allen.
I don’t really think the announcers are that credible. Daniels is near senile. One of them said Rojas was sitting out in a redshirt.
 
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barry j fenchak

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I don’t really think the announcers are that credible. Daniels is near senile. One of them said Rojas was sitting out in a redshirt.
Then look forward to a lot of Beth Mowins type broadcasting teams. Not going to be prime time for a few years unless facing a real CFB powerhouse. We sure as hell are not one.
 

razpsu

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I have been thinking the same thing, something seemed off. I suppose it's possible that the Oregon loss really crushed his spirit, but that's still just a game and the season goals were still all ahead of the team despite the loss. It feels like there's something else going on.
Well he knew what we knew that Oregon wasn’t that great with only returning 5 total starters. But with the playoff now you can lose that game and be fine. Not sure why he would put all his mental chips into that one.
 
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