Something I've noticed that MSU just doesn't seem to have.....

Heawww

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Jun 15, 2013
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Playmakers. I watched our entire game and I watched Auburn's entire game Saturday. For all intents and purposes, Auburn got beat on offense and defense IMO by Wazzou. Wazzou grinded out drives, held Auburn in check on offense (except for a few big plays). And those big plays won the game for Auburn. Special teams also helped win the game for them.

Looking back at our game, we talk about how we grinded our offense out vs. their defense in the first half, and how the defense grinded them out until they just got gassed. But we never SCORED, you know, that thing that determines whether we win or lose. F*ck statistics, where's the guy who makes the big play and excites MSU? Where's a huge run, a WR going out there, nutting up, and taking **** to the house? We can't even block, Morrow gets called for damn holding. Have we had a big special teams play in the past 3 years at all? All I can think of is Bumphis' punt return vs. La. Tech and Lewis' kickoff return vs. Ole Miss. Both HUGE momentum swings and in Bumphis' case, it won the game for us. And in the Egg Bowl, that return game us every opportunity to take control and we never did.

Look at our Auburn game last year. We absolutely DOMINATE. Yet we were only up 7-3 at half. Auburn runs a kickoff back and suddenly they are LEADING the damn game, after we have dominated yet failed to get into the endzone and missed field goals. That game should have been won 42-3, but because we're MSU we only win 28-10.

To me, we made a few of these plays in 2009 and 2010. I loved seeing Leon Berry actually make **** happen on kickoff returns. We never did it all during the Croom Error. King Jackie did it all the time. THAT is what it takes to knock off teams that are more talented than you. Simply put, somebody needs to step the f*ck up. This is why is looks like were are walking on eggshells out there. Nobody is wide *** open and putting themselves in position to make plays. Sure, it doesn't ALWAYS mean we win games. But you don't win many without it.
 

aTotal360

Heisman
Nov 12, 2009
21,746
14,399
113
Agreed. I've said it before, we have ZERO players you have to game plan for. Fletch was probably the last. As good as Banks and Slay were, I don't think they struck fear in any coordinator due to our defensive scheme. Perkins might be the only person a coach would look at and say "lets focus on him". But doesn't everyone want to stop the run first?

Defenses just need to play vanilla, get minimal pressure, and we will stump our own toe.
 

ShrubDog

Redshirt
Apr 13, 2008
5,307
3
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We have always lacked the playmakers. The problem I see is would we know how to use them if we had them? And it could be this question that playmakers have when it comes down to choosing who they want to play for.
 

msstate7

Redshirt
Nov 27, 2008
10,388
10
38
Uh LP is a playmaker. We use him like Ron dayne but he's dynamic if used right. Any coach in the sec would love to have him while we're wasting him
 

57stratdawg

Heisman
Dec 1, 2004
148,393
24,168
113
Tubby is pretty good. I feel like Malcom Johnson is a play maker, but maybe he's message board hero. Maybe we just can't get the ball to him, I don't know.
 

randystewart

Junior
Jan 14, 2009
1,181
314
83
I've watched practice a few times this year, and I promise you we have playmakers. Our problem is getting the ball to them. We seem way too concerned about running plays according to the sheet instead of finding something and sticking with it. For instance, two of our biggest gains on the day were screens(ish) to Perkins, but we never ran it again. We also had success running off tackle, but then abandoned that for up the middle.
OSU had success with the diamond QB run, so they kept doing it. Look at the Ole Miss game, they found success throwing the step off to Treadwell, so they keept doing it. For the past couple of years, we have plays each game that work, but we just seem to mark them off and move on down the sheet.

Edit to add: We have some serious playmakers at receiver, but never get creative in getting them the ball. If TR is going to be our QB, then we have to stop all of the BS read option play action **** while he is in the game. By the time he gets done with all of the faking, he has no time to find a receiver past his first look. I promise you we could do some serious damage throwing quick short routes and bubble screens to Lewis and RoJo.
 
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shotgunDawg

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Nov 13, 2011
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I disagree, I'm not saying we have Sammy Watkins level playmakers, but we have play makers. Our problem is that we don't get the ball to them. Jameon, Holloway, and Perkins should be catching bubble screens and short passes all day long, but no, we would rather have our statue QB stand in the pocket for 10 seconds. De'Runnya is also a playmaker. We should be running fades and flys with him.

We have playmakers but lack either the competence, scheme, or play calling to get them the ball.
 

Heawww

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Jun 15, 2013
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I'd probably agree here so I guess it falls on coaching. Whatever the reason, we're not getting it done in games. I won't try and act like I know if it's talent or coaching, you would know better than me if you've been to practice. And it likely being coaching, makes it all the more frustrating. This underachieving BS has to stop.

No matter what the distractions are off the field, NOBODY can tell the coach which plays to run except the coach. So there's really no excuse. I mean, the fundamental rule for coaching is simply to get the ball to your best players, no matter what system you run.
 

fishwater99

Freshman
Jun 4, 2007
14,073
54
48
Lewis, Perkins, Holloway, Wilson and Shumpert all disagree...

You have to get these guys the ball in space and let them make plays.
 

missouridawg

Junior
Oct 6, 2009
9,389
288
83
When you refuse to stretch the field, you create

a situation in which everyone has to break more than two tackles to be a "playmaker".

I agree that appears we dont' have playmakers... but that's because we've yet to run a play this season in which a playmaker can make a play.

LDP is playmaker on a screen play.
Jameon Lewis is a playmaker running deep.
Derunnya Wilson is a playmaker running a fade.

Did we run any of those plays?

Let me guess, Brandon Hill is supposed to catch a 12 yard pass in the middle of the field and run it 50 yards? Yeah, right... he's just not a playmaker, I guess.
 

Heawww

Redshirt
Jun 15, 2013
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I agree that appears we dont' have playmakers... but that's because we've yet to run a play this season in which a playmaker can make a play.

I agree with this. One way or the other it isn't happened on the green grass on Saturday.
 

maroonmania

Senior
Feb 23, 2008
11,144
821
113
Playmakers. I watched our entire game and I watched Auburn's entire game Saturday. For all intents and purposes, Auburn got beat on offense and defense IMO by Wazzou. Wazzou grinded out drives, held Auburn in check on offense (except for a few big plays). And those big plays won the game for Auburn. Special teams also helped win the game for them.

Looking back at our game, we talk about how we grinded our offense out vs. their defense in the first half, and how the defense grinded them out until they just got gassed. But we never SCORED, you know, that thing that determines whether we win or lose. F*ck statistics, where's the guy who makes the big play and excites MSU? Where's a huge run, a WR going out there, nutting up, and taking **** to the house? We can't even block, Morrow gets called for damn holding. Have we had a big special teams play in the past 3 years at all? All I can think of is Bumphis' punt return vs. La. Tech and Lewis' kickoff return vs. Ole Miss. Both HUGE momentum swings and in Bumphis' case, it won the game for us. And in the Egg Bowl, that return game us every opportunity to take control and we never did.

Look at our Auburn game last year. We absolutely DOMINATE. Yet we were only up 7-3 at half. Auburn runs a kickoff back and suddenly they are LEADING the damn game, after we have dominated yet failed to get into the endzone and missed field goals. That game should have been won 42-3, but because we're MSU we only win 28-10.

To me, we made a few of these plays in 2009 and 2010. I loved seeing Leon Berry actually make **** happen on kickoff returns. We never did it all during the Croom Error. King Jackie did it all the time. THAT is what it takes to knock off teams that are more talented than you. Simply put, somebody needs to step the f*ck up. This is why is looks like were are walking on eggshells out there. Nobody is wide *** open and putting themselves in position to make plays. Sure, it doesn't ALWAYS mean we win games. But you don't win many without it.

At least one time every game I would love to see us just send a WR on a freakin' fly pattern and take a shot. Heck, you might actually get lucky every now then and connect and make a big play.
 

boatsandhoes

Junior
Sep 6, 2012
2,151
208
63
uh this^^^^. We have them. Most of them saturday were riding pine. Out there running the old fake jet sweep.

You're telling me Derunnya can't be a playmaker down the field true Frosh or not? Chappelle can do it too. Hell, I bet Junebug can do it. But we're starting Joe 17ing Morrow.

I really don't like to be negative about any of our players. Joe has worked hard, I just don't think he should be the starter.
 

Heawww

Redshirt
Jun 15, 2013
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I'm all about putting Perkins at WR and letting Robinson and Griffin handle the RB duty. Line him up by Lewis and Johnson. The other WRs will play too, you have to use them all so no worries about Wilson not technically 'starting'.
 

Shamoan

Redshirt
Jun 27, 2013
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our 4* offensive PLAYMAKERS (WR/RB/QB) under dan mullen:

4* bumphis .... record setting wr under dan mullen, largely considered a disappointment by our fans (for some reason...maybe a season like this makes us appreciate what he actually did)
4* russell ... qb with wrong offense for his skillset for our "offense"
4* conner ... rb that transferred
4* langston ... came in as 4* wr....got switched to corner.
4* wells ... came in as a 4* rb....got switched to olb.
4* morrow ... wr that is a bust
4* sandburg ... working on his approach at the plate
4* shumpert ... ? didnt get a snap
4* ross ... ? had one catch for 8 yards.

these are the only offensive 4* we have had under mullen. The wr's are at best "disappointing"...i love bumphis, but that is me, and at worst, our wr's are huge busts, assuming they arent moved to defense

the three 4* rb's got either switched to defense, transferred schools, or are totally inexperienced

our 4* qb's either are in a really out of place offense or playing minor leage ball

in summary, over mullen's tenure, AT BEST, our most productive offensive players out of hs/juco are as follows:
qb: russell (square peg, round hole)....one semi-productive 4* qb in 5 classes.
wr: bumphis (i liked him, but many use "bust" or "disappointment" when referring to him)...one semi-productive 4* wr in 5 classes.
rb: zero ... zero semi-productive 4* rb's at this point in 5 classes.

bottom line, all our athletes are on defense. we are asking a handfull of 2* or 3* lineman to block for a handfull of 3* rb's or pass block so that our severely limited 4* qb, pass to a bunch of inexperienced wr's mixed with 3*'s...........all while defenses we play are loaded with legitimate 4* or 5* talent.

in the meantime, offenses trot out legitimate 4* and 5* qb's, wr's, and rb's and grind down our 4* defense because our inept offense cant convert on 3rd down....and we wonder what is happening.

of the 9 4* offensive players, only 2 have made a significant impact on the offensive side of the ball (bumphis and russell). we are whiffing on offensive skill....>BIGTIME< ...most of them either were busts in some way or got switched to defense.

the jury is still out on ross and shump.
 
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Wizard.sixpack

Freshman
Sep 15, 2009
6,511
58
48
is Morrow not a sophomore? How can he be considered a bust? Don't some players mature at different times?
 

boatsandhoes

Junior
Sep 6, 2012
2,151
208
63
It's funny MM. we did that a few times sat late. When we did there were two guys within 5 yards of each other (obviously wrong route by someone) 30 yards down the field running up the same sideline. Or we were throwing a deep ball to jameon, our smallest wr.

The one double move we executed properly was the malcolm double move down the sideline in front of our bench. I counted at least 5 times we were throwing the ball more than 10 yards down the field and two of our WR were within 5-7 yards of each other. that isn't suppose to happen, ever.
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
56,762
26,105
113
He's a redshirt SO. And so far, he's a bust. Hopefully that will change. But right now, I'm not real optimistic.
 

msstate7

Redshirt
Nov 27, 2008
10,388
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is Morrow not a sophomore? How can he be considered a bust? Don't some players mature at different times?
I'm less than thrilled with how morrow has started, but hopefully he can turn it around. Dee Arrington finally showed me something Saturday as a junior so maybe joe will be a late bloomer also
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
56,762
26,105
113
Based on past history with supposedly hyped receivers, it's understandable that someone would write him off. I saw more from Derunya Wilson Saturday and he has 2 years experience, same as Morrow does. Only difference is Wilson has 2 years of HIGH SCHOOL experience, not college.
 
Aug 22, 2012
2,761
1
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Where we lack playmaking is at wide receiver. It's painfully obvious. I loved Bumphis, but he wasn't physically imposing at all. A shifty runner, but not someone who would stretch you deep. Basically a Wes Welker type player. Look around the league and you'll see that almost every team has a go-to WR that is a legitimate threat to go deep. Except us. Either we have that player and refuse to use him (play calling problem), or he's just not there (recruiting problem). Bottom line, we can't stretch the field vertically and it hampers everything we do. It was a problem last year and it's still a problem now.

Of course, it's hard to recruit big time wide receivers when you run the Relf offense for two seasons. I appreciate Chris' talents, but if I'm a high school wide receiver recruit, I'm not likely to sign with a team that runs that kind of offense.
 

Palos verdes

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
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I don't recall one single ball thrown in Morrow's direction on Sat.

Same for Chappelle. But to the qb's credit, I never saw either one open.
 

Shamoan

Redshirt
Jun 27, 2013
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this is his 3rd season in the system, but he is only in his 2nd year of eligibility. soo...im not really encouraged by that, but if it makes everyone feel better, we can consider him a question mark.

im kinda hoping somebody makes him read this and it pisses him off to the point where he lives up to his 4* banner.
 

Heawww

Redshirt
Jun 15, 2013
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If we had a QB who could throw in addition to run (a TRUE dual-threat QB, not a Relf), we'd likely get some guys that want to come play in that offense. Our recruiting sell to WRs is that they'll get to return kicks, punts, play WR and be a Percy Harvin. They'll fit somewhere.

I think the bigger issue is that MS doesn't produce many SEC caliber game breaking WRs. Donte Moncrief, who else here lately? Sanders, Johnson, Bumphis, Cowan up at Arkansas....those guys aren't what we're talking about. Nick Brassell doesn't count, he would be a CB anyway. Even Norwood at Alabama, he's not a field stretching type of guy.

I do think that Mullen has realized that he'll have go out of state to find these guys.
 

johnson86-1

All-Conference
Aug 22, 2012
14,324
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I'm less than thrilled with how morrow has started, but hopefully he can turn it around. Dee Arrington finally showed me something Saturday as a junior so maybe joe will be a late bloomer also

Arrington looks fine now, but he has been sitting behind players in a position where we've been relatively strong. Morrow is a redshirt sophomore who has been playing a position where we are weak. It's not that Morrow won't get better, it's just if he wasn't good enough to get playing time last year, he's got quite a jump to make to be good.
 

operch

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
360
9
18
I've watched practice a few times this year, and I promise you we have playmakers. Our problem is getting the ball to them. We seem way too concerned about running plays according to the sheet instead of finding something and sticking with it. For instance, two of our biggest gains on the day were screens(ish) to Perkins, but we never ran it again. We also had success running off tackle, but then abandoned that for up the middle.
OSU had success with the diamond QB run, so they kept doing it. Look at the Ole Miss game, they found success throwing the step off to Treadwell, so they keept doing it. For the past couple of years, we have plays each game that work, but we just seem to mark them off and move on down the sheet.

Edit to add: We have some serious playmakers at receiver, but never get creative in getting them the ball. If TR is going to be our QB, then we have to stop all of the BS read option play action **** while he is in the game. By the time he gets done with all of the faking, he has no time to find a receiver past his first look. I promise you we could do some serious damage throwing quick short routes and bubble screens to Lewis and RoJo.


I agree. Another, if Griffin is ok to go play him. If the Speedster from Fla is ready, play him. Let's make offense fun to play and watch.