Something to think about re: FSU game

[Quavarius]

Coming into the FSU game, our major weaknesses were 3 point shooting, FT shooting and Zion being on the bench.

We actually shot 45.8% from 3 with Zion on the bench all second half. Also, the “missed” FT put is in position to win the game. Had Barrett made it and sent the game to OT, who knows the outcome. So, going 9-Of-15 from the FT (60%) line, though not ideal, actually helped in this situation.

 

[Quavarius]

That’s why I don’t listen to folks who harp on those weaknesses. We score the ball efficently and play elite defense. We will be in every game with or without great 3 point and FT shooting. Duke is unique because not a lot of teams say that.

 

[chov1125]

We didn’t do a great job on the boards yesterday. Not an easy task with those long bodies FSU always seem to have. But if we want to nit pick to further improve going forward, let’s clean up the glass.

 

[dukiejay]

Coming into the FSU game, our major weaknesses were 3 point shooting, FT shooting and Zion being on the bench.

We actually shot 45.8% from 3 with Zion on the bench all second half. Also, the “missed” FT put is in position to win the game. Had Barrett made it and sent the game to OT, who knows the outcome. So, going 9-Of-15 from the FT (60%) line, though not ideal, actually helped in this situation.

Being that we won, yes, you could tell yourself it helped.

We’re not a good, long term, percentage shooting team from deep, though. We have a handful of guys capable of being elite on a game-by-game basis like yesterday. Luckily, the good shooting came on a night where we struggled to rebound and played half the game without the best player in the country.

This team is really, really good at many things. Consistent outside shooting and free throws aren’t two of them. But maybe this is something that gets Cam going like we know he can. Maybe this one of those grind-it-out road wins every young team needs to experience.

My favorite comment from K’s presser yesterday was him talking about Zion almost being in tears after the win yesterday. He was that happy for his teammates. That’s pretty special, IMO.

 

[dopeshop23]

Thanks for mentioning the rebounding...that was the major concern for me, in any of the competitive games thus it our collective lack rebounding that was the central problem. We need lots of possessions for talent to shine...which make any game with UVA this year worrisome for me.

 

[Mac9192]

We need to get better efforts out of Bolden and DeLaurier. Zion didn’t play the 2nd half, and still had more boards than those 2 combined.
I’m glad we played without him. Had he played, some wouldn’t have noticed how little our 2 bigs did. DeLaurier played 16 minutes and didn’t grab a single rebound. Bolden played 24, and tied our point guard with 5.

Those 2 need to man up.

 

[Quavarius]

Glad some of you mentioned rebounding. Two things to consider:

1. FSU’s front line is bigger than ours. Taking away Zion and our rebounding margin shrinks. With Zion, we probably outrebound FSU.

2. We made more shots, thus limiting rebounding opportunities. FSU outrebounded us 39-34. We were -5 on the boards, not -15. We made 46% of our FG and 46% from 3.

Making more shots + losing Zion = -5 on the boards.

 

[LongTimeDukeFan]

Glad some of you mentioned rebounding. Two things to consider:

1. FSU’s front line is bigger than ours. Taking away Zion and our rebounding margin shrinks. With Zion, we probably outrebound FSU.

2. We made more shots, thus limiting rebounding opportunities. FSU outrebounded us 39-34. We were -5 on the boards, not -15. We made 46% of our FG and 46% from 3.

Making more shots + losing Zion = -5 on the boards.

Maybe it’s just me, but it looked like the average age of FSU was around 24 years old.

 

[LouisiAaron]

We outrebounded them in the first half. Once Zion went to the bench they caught up. He had 8 in the first half. We led the nation before this game in rebounds per game. Our defensive rebounding is good but not great. Our offensive rebounding is great. We give up rebounds but we also get more on offense than we give up on defense.

I don’t worry about shooting because we can play defense. We have NBA scorers so they’ll be able to score eventually. If Cam keeps this up and continue to play like we know he can, no one will beat us. We just need a little outside shooting. It’s not like we force 3s. Majority are wide open. We will be just fine. If we can get the 4 freshman to play 30+ minutes in a game no one will beat us. Too much talent and options. Plus they play defense

 

[Quavarius]

Maybe it’s just me, but it looked like the average age of FSU was around 24 years old.

Cofer played against Tyus and Tre Jones

 

[RanDEVILman]

Agree with a lot of this thread. The thing I see in this team is the ability to win different ways and that’s due to the incredible talent assembled combined with their willingness to make tough plays especially if defense. It kinda reminds me of the 15 team. Not an exact parallel but just the way the 15 team had an answer for lots of different types of games. Now saying that, the 15 team didn’t start really playing defense until about half way through ACC play.

 

[Quavarius]

Agree with a lot of this thread. The thing I see in this team is the ability to win different ways and that’s due to the incredible talent assembled combined with their willingness to make tough plays especially if defense. It kinda reminds me of the 15 team. Not an exact parallel but just the way the 15 team had an answer for lots of different types of games. Now saying that, the 15 team didn’t start really playing defense until about half way through ACC play.

Agreed

 

[df64]

FT shooting isn't completely fixable, but Tre and Cam can and should be doing better. That would fix a lot of it. As for 3%, Zion and RJ taking a few less, especially early in the shot clock would limit that weakness.

 

[Neners]

Maybe it’s just me, but it looked like the average age of FSU was around 24 years old.

I always feel like this when we play them.

 

[nets on nets on nets]

Without Zion, when we play Jack at the 4 we are just an average rebounding team. Not shocking that FSU beat us on the boards, I thought our guys fought hard and knocked a few balls outta bounds that could of been easy FSU putback dunks.

However, without Zion, playing Jack at the 4 really opens up the floor for our offense. RJ had a pretty nice path to the cup on many possessions.

 

[Badabingbadaboom]

It really was a big win yesterday as far as seeding goes. Duke needs the # 1 seed this year , who knows if the Zags lose again, and TN may not lose, Virginia might only lose to Duke and Michigan could only have 2-3 losses.
Critical to avoid those teams until the Final 4.

 

[SwatX1]

Virginia might only lose to Duke

The question is, how many times!!!

 

[df64]

This game really aaswered a lot of questions about this years team. Monday's game will answer a few more and the rest will be answered when we play UVA.

 

[skysdad]

We're probably going to lose a game or two before the dance. What we need to try hard not to do is doubt this team. Sure the players probably don't read this board and I really hope they dont. They are still young and some of the things we post on here can be tough. I just think we should be grateful to have not only a very talented team but a very close team. Just think if we didn't have such a great program as we have had over the last 3 decades. The fan base may be 50 per cent of what it is now. I know we have a lot of passionate fans here. I'm happy we aren't another thr or a RR board. If we were I doubt very seriously I would be a regular here because it would be embarrassing to be a part of. We may very well win number 6 this year but if not this is a special group of young men we are fans of. Let's enjoy them. It's gonna go by quickly. OFC

 

[retiredsoldier]

We're probably going to lose a game or two before the dance. What we need to try hard not to do is doubt this team. Sure the players probably don't read this board and I really hope they dont. They are still young and some of the things we post on here can be tough. I just think we should be grateful to have not only a very talented team but a very close team. Just think if we didn't have such a great program as we have had over the last 3 decades. The fan base may be 50 per cent of what it is now. I know we have a lot of passionate fans here. I'm happy we aren't another thr or a RR board. If we were I doubt very seriously I would be a regular here because it would be embarrassing to be a part of. We may very well win number 6 this year but if not this is a special group of young men we are fans of. Let's enjoy them. It's gonna go by quickly. OFC

Excellent post sky! That old saying " the more you got, the more you want" is a fact lol.

 

[BOOGIEMAN1914]

We didn’t do a great job on the boards yesterday. Not an easy task with those long bodies FSU always seem to have. But if we want to nit pick to further improve going forward, let’s clean up the glass.

zion would have helped w/ that more than likely...being able to sky w/ that length

 

[Quavarius]

We're probably going to lose a game or two before the dance. What we need to try hard not to do is doubt this team. Sure the players probably don't read this board and I really hope they dont. They are still young and some of the things we post on here can be tough. I just think we should be grateful to have not only a very talented team but a very close team. Just think if we didn't have such a great program as we have had over the last 3 decades. The fan base may be 50 per cent of what it is now. I know we have a lot of passionate fans here. I'm happy we aren't another thr or a RR board. If we were I doubt very seriously I would be a regular here because it would be embarrassing to be a part of. We may very well win number 6 this year but if not this is a special group of young men we are fans of. Let's enjoy them. It's gonna go by quickly. OFC

Agreed

 

[Dattier]

We need to get better efforts out of Bolden and DeLaurier. Zion didn’t play the 2nd half, and still had more boards than those 2 combined.
I’m glad we played without him. Had he played, some wouldn’t have noticed how little our 2 bigs did. DeLaurier played 16 minutes and didn’t grab a single rebound. Bolden played 24, and tied our point guard with 5.

Per 40 minutes, that would be 8.3 rebounds for Quis. Why can't it just be a really good rebounding game for Tre and another example of how amazing Zion is even in just one half? Why does it have to be a negative for Quis, in particular?

 

[skysdad]

Per 40 minutes, that would be 8.3 rebounds for Quis. Why can't it just be a really good rebounding game for Tre and another example of how amazing Zion is even in just one half? Why does it have to be a negative for Quis, in particular?

I agree 100 per cent. He's been injured a lot and does what he is ask to do. Why do we as a board seem to have a player or two every that we seem to be down on. Javin gets some of it too. He also does his job. OFC

 

[Mac9192]

Per 40 minutes, that would be 8.3 rebounds for Quis. Why can't it just be a really good rebounding game for Tre and another example of how amazing Zion is even in just one half? Why does it have to be a negative for Quis, in particular?

If that’s the way you want to see it, fine. I see it that Tre and Zion are aggressive, but Bolden and DeLaurier need to be a little more aggressive.

 

[Showenuff]

 

[df64]

Great post Sky. I am not going to say that I never mutter some expletives in regard to Javin, Alex, or Ques. I do. And I am not saying I wouldn't be screaming at them if I didn't have a son and wife in the house. I would. But that is in the moment and private. Cant agree with the public bashing of kids who chose Duke, work their butts for Duke, and who stayed even though it hasn't been easy for them and or gone the way they hoped/expected. Evey title team at Duke has had upperclassmen who stuck it out through tough times and wound up being irreplaceable contributors to that title. Greg Koubek in 91, Marty Clark in 92 ( a soph, but McD AA), Nate James and Casey Sanders in 01, Zoubek and Thomas in 10, and Quinn Cook in 15. To a lesser extent, you could throw in Brian Davis in 91 and 92, who didn't sniff the floor his 1st two years. We dont have a single title without those guys. Not a single one. Without Ques, Alex, or Javin, we probably dont stand a chance this year. I am not talking about losing all 3 but a any one of them. This year, adding Jack to that mix, we have 4 guys who stuck around and give their all regardless of outcomes. I will take that all day every day. We should be kissing their butts, not kicking their butts.

 

[FearTheBeard_rivals208808]

Maybe it’s just me, but it looked like the average age of FSU was around 24 years old.

And their coach looks half his age.

 

[skysdad]

Great post Sky. I am not going to say that I never mutter some expletives in regard to Javin, Alex, or Ques. I do. And I am not saying I wouldn't be screaming at them if I didn't have a son and wife in the house. I would. But that is in the moment and private. Cant agree with the public bashing of kids who chose Duke, work their butts for Duke, and who stayed even though it hasn't been easy for them and or gone the way they hoped/expected. Evey title team at Duke has had upperclassmen who stuck it out through tough times and wound up being irreplaceable contributors to that title. Greg Koubek in 91, Marty Clark in 92 ( a soph, but McD AA), Nate James and Casey Sanders in 01, Zoubek and Thomas in 10, and Quinn Cook in 15. To a lesser extent, you could throw in Brian Davis in 91 and 92, who didn't sniff the floor his 1st two years. We dont have a single title without those guys. Not a single one. Without Ques, Alex, or Javin, we probably dont stand a chance this year. I am not talking about losing all 3 but a any one of them. This year, adding Jack to that mix, we have 4 guys who stuck around and give their all regardless of outcomes. I will take that all day every day. We should be kissing their butts, not kicking their butts.

Thanks. OFC

 

[dukiejay]

Javin wasn't good yesterday. Hard to argue otherwise. He'd probably tell you the same.

I thought Bolden played decent. It wasn't his best game, but he was disruptive. He's not a great rebounder. Never has been....don't think he will become one now.

This combo has given us about 10 points and slightly over eight rebounds per game this season in 33 minutes or so. Yesterday wasn't one of those days.

 

[Mac9192]

I agree 100 per cent. He's been injured a lot and does what he is ask to do. Why do we as a board seem to have a player or two every that we seem to be down on. Javin gets some of it too. He also does his job. OFC

Wow. So no one can post that they think a combined 5 rebounds, with one getting none, doesn’t warrant someone thinking they underperformed, all with Zion out of the game?
Sorry, but I thought both of them got outplayed by their bigs, and weren’t tough enough. Doesn’t mean I don’t like them.

Didn’t know only praise was allowed.

 

[dukiejay]

Wow. So no one can post that they think a combined 5 rebounds, with one getting none, doesn’t warrant someone thinking they underperformed, all with Zion out of the game?
Sorry, but I thought both of them got outplayed by their bigs, and weren’t tough enough. Doesn’t mean I don’t like them.

Didn’t know only praise was allowed.

Bolden only averages four rebounds per game. He was above his average yesterday. Like I've said....he's not a great rebounder. And you're right, he didn't have his best game yesterday.

Javin played bad. I think it's been pointed out by a number of people already. You've said it multiple times in multiple threads. It just feels like you're making a concerted effort to get these jabs in about Javin's poor performance yesterday based on a certain thread last week....where you did a Lee Harvey Oswald impersonation.

 

[hart2chesson]

We need to get better efforts out of Bolden and DeLaurier. Zion didn’t play the 2nd half, and still had more boards than those 2 combined.
I’m glad we played without him. Had he played, some wouldn’t have noticed how little our 2 bigs did. DeLaurier played 16 minutes and didn’t grab a single rebound. Bolden played 24, and tied our point guard with 5.

Those 2 need to man up.

I was so excited (and still am!!!) about the win I didnt pay as close attention to the final numbers. Normally I suppose I am so angry about a loss I tend to scour the final stats and look for trends. Yes, Javin not securing a single rebound is alarming- and had we LOST I am sure I would have pounced on it. I imagine K will have a little talk with him and put a spring in his step. We can't have Javin not rebounding...

However the larger concern to me was our vulnerability to the alley-oop plays FSU seemed to be running at will on us 2nd half. (Obviously Z man being out was part to blame), but I still thought Javin and Ques were caught flatfooted and out of position too many times. Fortunately down the stretch we had increased awareness. Actually I think its a GOOD THING when you can win a BIG ROAD GAME in ACC play but still find room for improvement. I dont look upon that as "bashing" of players, I look at it as objective critique (even though all of us are TRUE BLUE FANS).
#LetsGetCuse

OFC

 

[df64]

Sure they underperformed. When grandma serves a dry Turkey for Thankdgiving does the first person to point it out get points for doing so? For me, I am ok with critiquing a kids game, but not criticizing the kid.
More so if they play hard and hustle.

 

[Mac9192]

where you did a Lee Harvey Oswald impersonation.

Cute, real cute.

 

[LouisiAaron]

Javin was just too small to be out there for any length of time. That was a Marques kind of game. And don't worry Marques is going to play his game. He told me he doesn't pay attention to none of the outside talk and he's just trying to play his role to help the team win. Javin won't be a factor in a lot of ACC games because he's not really big enough and not many teams go small.

 

[skysdad]

Great post Sky. I am not going to say that I never mutter some expletives in regard to Javin, Alex, or Ques. I do. And I am not saying I wouldn't be screaming at them if I didn't have a son and wife in the house. I would. But that is in the moment and private. Cant agree with the public bashing of kids who chose Duke, work their butts for Duke, and who stayed even though it hasn't been easy for them and or gone the way they hoped/expected. Evey title team at Duke has had upperclassmen who stuck it out through tough times and wound up being irreplaceable contributors to that title. Greg Koubek in 91, Marty Clark in 92 ( a soph, but McD AA), Nate James and Casey Sanders in 01, Zoubek and Thomas in 10, and Quinn Cook in 15. To a lesser extent, you could throw in Brian Davis in 91 and 92, who didn't sniff the floor his 1st two years. We dont have a single title without those guys. Not a single one. Without Ques, Alex, or Javin, we probably dont stand a chance this year. I am not talking about losing all 3 but a any one of them. This year, adding Jack to that mix, we have 4 guys who stuck around and give their all regardless of outcomes. I will take that all day every day. We should be kissing their butts, not kicking their butts.

I've tried to support our players through the years. A couple have however caught my disgust them being Taylor King and Greg Newton. Both I felt were wasted scholorships . Happy to see Newton graduate and King transfer. Back in thevery early 70's when I was in my 20's and thought I knew everything we had point guard named Steve Gray and another player named Kenny Young. Of course back then we were not very good and every game wasn't televised. I worked for an insurance company at that time and lose another Duke fan and I would blame the loss on Gray and Young. It really wasn't their fault they were just someone to blame. Actually we were probably lucky to have them because Duke at the time just wasn't the place the top players wanted to go. Kind of feel bad now because I really didn't know squat and I was just tired of losing to the heels. I'm guess that has a lot to do with me being so animate about supporting our players that stay in the program like Josh Hairston for one. He caught a lot of grief from us. OFC

 

[hart2chesson]

For me, I am ok with critiquing a kids game, but not criticizing the kid.
More so if they play hard and hustle.

I really don't know of many instances here of our posters "criticizing" our kids, and think vast majority of any negatives denoted are merely in "critiquing their games." (Between the lines).

Gosh its tame here (as it should be imo) compared to some schools boards and/or Twitter messages to players actually getting death threats about a performance (Kyle Guy experienced after UMBC game). Now thats serious derangement. Oh well off my soap box....

OFC

 

[Dattier]

Wow. So no one can post that they think a combined 5 rebounds, with one getting none, doesn’t warrant someone thinking they underperformed, all with Zion out of the game?
Sorry, but I thought both of them got outplayed by their bigs, and weren’t tough enough. Doesn’t mean I don’t like them.

Didn’t know only praise was allowed.

By virtue of having posted it, you obviously can post your trademark negativity. No one else is required to like it or keep their own mouths shut about it.

We go through this every time you post your terrible takes: You get called on it, then you whine as if you're being censored instead of taking responsibility for the consequences of your post.

@dukiejay posted criticism of Javin's game and pointed out Quis' limitations. I haven't seen anyone take him to task for it. If you had the slightest self-awareness, you might learn something from that. You might realize, gee, maybe it's something crappy I'm doing... but nah, keep on whining about how the Universe is out to get you instead.

 

[Mac9192]

By virtue of having posted it, you obviously can post your trademark negativity. No one else is required to like it or keep their own mouths shut about it.

We go through this every time you post your terrible takes: You get called on it, then you whine as if you're being censored instead of taking responsibility for the consequences of your post.

@dukiejay posted criticism of Javin's game and pointed out Quis' limitations. I haven't seen anyone take him to task for it. If you had the slightest self-awareness, you might learn something from that. You might realize, gee, maybe it's something crappy I'm doing... but nah, keep on whining about how the Universe is out to get you instead.

Now Datt. Calm down. Still aggravated cause you didn't get the Anniversary Edition of Scrabble for Christmas?