I think your numbers are pretty realistic and accurate, at least for my alma mater SR. This new Priest/Principal vows to increase enrollment, and I hope to God he does, but I'm not sure he is being very realistic. Very sad when you see these enrollments in the southside catholic boys schools
St. Rita fans........
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I think your numbers are pretty realistic and accurate, at least for my alma mater SR. This new Priest/Principal vows to increase enrollment, and I hope to God he does, but I'm not sure he is being very realistic. Very sad when you see these enrollments in the southside catholic boys schools
Foremost Queen of Peace and Laurence should merge - QofP has a very small school now. Rita to pick up another 50-75 students per class could always go coed and pick up girls
I realize society has changed, but I still think the essence of SR changes if it goes co-ed. Also, I don't even think co-ed is realistic for SR. If parents are hesitant to send their boys to 77th and Western, do you think they will be lining up to send girls there?
I was wondering if this was going to come up in this discussion.
On the one hand, a merger would certainly make sense from an economies of scale standpoint. Both schools' enrollments combined are smaller than each school was at its peak enrollment back in the 70s...so space shouldn't be an issue. Given the juxtaposition of the two schools, you could do some interesting single gender programming on both campuses.
On the other hand, from the Larry perspective, things are looking up. Why mess with a relatively good thing?
Lastly, imagine if Larry and Peace were to merge. No more doubling of the Larry all boy enrollment. Just apply the multiplier to the combined coed enrollment of around 800 as opposed to the current doubled Larry enrollment of 968. It could result in Larry moving DOWN a class.
maybe there are just too many catholic high schools too close together? what are enrollments at feeder parochial schools? and what are the population numbers for their draw areas? something tells me both numbers are not going up and most likely going down.
You are correct. Ideally, SR and Laurence merge. But understandably, neither school wants to foresake their current and past identity.
Fair points as well. But, even going back to the early 90s is nearly 30 years ago and twenty more years to get funds from wealthier alums from SR and MC v. the younger schools like BR, StL and Marist.
Never thought I would see the day when a coed Marist would have more boys than an all-boys Rice.
Sort of like how the Sisters of Providence at Mother Guerin waited out the Holy Cross Brothers at Holy Cross. It's a shame, really, because Guerin Prep has shown, yet again, what happens when two schools merge from positions of weakness, but the acquiring school is less weak than the other. We've seen it at Mendel/SMDP/Unity/Willibrord, etc. I think we've seen it also at St. Joe/IHM. How many times do we have to bang our heads against the wall on this?
Merge from positions of strength. Find the VISION, bury the hatchet if there is one, grow some stones, and make the hard decisions. Be proactive, not reactive. Look to Loyola/Marillac and Viator/Sacred Heart as examples of what can be done.
Seeing that Marist predicted when they went coed that they would be filled to capacity at 2000 and would be turning kids away, that they are hovering at about 1600 total says something. Before Marist hit its big decline in the early 90s which forced its hand to go coed, the two schools enrollments were always about equal, despite only being about two miles apart.
StL has 32 players on their varsity roster SR has 66 on their varsity roster. The freshman roster is posted, they have 45 players.
I know Fayzon Smart is in Rita's backyard and he is at Laurence. Losing impact players to StL wasn't happening 10 years ago
I inadvertently came across Rita roster size from 1988 when googling Pats Rita for write up from the 47-44 loss. The ' Pats SR article from 1988 playoffs came up. 61 players. They have more on roster now 26 years later. They arent getting the impact kids.
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Harold Blackmon is a terrific coach and recruiter. His resurrection at Laurence definitely hurts Rita. I wonder if he makes the move to MC when Lenti finally retires? Or maybe he has his eyes set on getting into the college ranks? He seems like the perfect coach to replace Lenti.
Maria H.S. was the defacto girl high school of St. Rita (Rita boys would pick up their girls from Maria and head to Marquette Park) and it closed a few years ago. SR and MC's would-be same-campus girl high schools would draw a different demo from the boys. DLS-G picked up the slack in recent years.
That's an interesting point. I watched most SR games from 87-97, and I don't recall any of those teams having as a big of a roster as the teams during Kuska's hey day in the first decade of the 2000's. Which is counterintuitive b/c SR still had over a 1000 boys during the last few years at 63rd and then had close to 850 or so the first few years at 77th Street when I was there. Conversely, they were probably only at 650 boys in the first half of the 2000s.
Obviously, all schools are dealing with this issue, but I think the declining number of boys playing football really hurts SR. During that era (87-97), SR would still get 90-100 boys going out for frosh football. Now, in the last few years, it has been closer to 50. With that many frosh football players (up until about 5 years ago), there was a high likelihood that you would find some impact players who didn't play in grammar school and whom the coaching staff did not know about prior to frosh try-outs [for instance, Im pretty sure Brian Hamilton never played football until his frosh year at SR; same goes for Tony Simmons I believe].
The bottom line is that you make a good point about SR simply not having impact players the last few years, except for possibly that DL/LB this year who committed to U of I.
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That's not my understanding.
Marist went coed in 2002 with freshman girls. Four years later, when they had girls in all four classes, Marist began to turn kids away for several years due to lack of space They are at 1655 coed enrollment now and I don't think they were ever really more than 1800 kids regardless of the gender makeup of the school. Back in 2009 when they were in the state title game, the IHSA listed their enrollment at 1789. Even at 1655 students, they are still the second largest private high school in Illinois (after Loyola Academy).
As for the two schools being about equal, wasn't there a time when Rice had around 2200 boys? I don't think Marist ever broke 1800 boys mark
Rita's Frosh roster shows a decent presence at Queen of Martyrs (where a lot of Rita alums coach at) as well as Cadjetan, Christina and Daniels (which should be a Laurence stronghold). Only one Fisher and one MHR kid. The days of large classes at Bede, St Mary Star of the Sea, Queen of Universe, Denis, Bernadette and CK are unfortunately over
Not so much closures (Bernadette and Tommy More have been) but becoming "soccer schools"?
Here is my take, having had a son who recently went through the process. Mt. Carmel and Br. Rice recruitment staff do an outstanding job of getting kids to go there, not even for Football, but just to go there for their 4 years. Phil Segroves (MC) and Tim O'Connell (BR) are excellent at what they do....the Rita recruitment staff was not as aggressive. O'Connell sells that it's "Your Neighborhood school"....it's in a safe area, it's minutes from your home and its a good education.....he is a bit too much at times though.... MC uses it's tradition, its winning history, all the new high tech toys that MC has as far as education advancements, plus the angle that it's good to get out of your neighborhood, meet new kids, MC has students from 250 different schools....Rita is an outstanding school, and yes the neighborhood is becoming worse every year, but they never had had any incidents, to my knowledge on the campus.....just like at MC, there is respect for the school by the neighborhood....the school, facilities and campus are very nice.....but they weren't really aggressive at getting kids through the door...and with Zunica leaving as baseball head coach, it may effect that as well, no disrespect to Nee. From my sons school, the only kids from his class going there are Alums kids, or siblings of existing students. Yes the fact that Rita hasn't closed on many State chances does play a part....going 3-6 last year didn't help and they really stumbled against St. Pats to start this year...with BR, LA and MC looking strong, they may be 3-6 again and that can be a disaster...but Laurence would be 4-5 in the Blue so I'm not sold on them, but if they beat Rita....lets wait and see....MC beat Taft, I'm not busting out the bubbly yet.....I want to see Rita do well though, makes for a good season around here when all the schools the neighborhood kids go to succeed.
Naz used to be a big draw for Daniels kids. Don't know what happened but that's just not the case anymore.
I asked a co-worker that lives out by Dans the same....I guess Naz tuition is comparable to St. Ignatius.
In the mid to late 70s, both Marist and Rice were each at 2000 and maybe even a few more (you can see why two boys schools were built two miles apart). Marist's physical plant was built to handle 2000. They probably repurposed some classrooms as all did to other uses, but the space is there if need be. We live in a strong feeder parish to Marist and since they went coed we know of one girl who was not accepted on the first pass but eventually was in. We also have a son who graduated from Marist in 2009 and even then there were no rejections due to space. They offer academic programs for all types of learners so the days of needing to test well enough to get in do not exist either. When they went coed, one of the PR messages was that they would build more classroom space if needed. It has not been needed. An interesting side note is that there was supposed to be an all girls Catholic HS built next to Marist - that is why there is so much land west of the school before the cemetery starts - but with Vatican II on the horizon when Marist was being built, by the time it opened in 1963, the teaching orders were already seeing reductions in numbers so they could not get an order to run the school which is the main reason Mother McAuley always had such a relatively larger enrollment. The Archdiocese originally asked the Irish Christian Brothers to run what became Marist but with three high schools already open (St L had just opened in 1961), they had to pass and the Marist Brothers stepped in. Until it went coed, the Marist here was one of their only single gender high schools in the country.
Could it also be Naz' infatuation with the Naperville/Will County/Oswego area talent at the expense of playing time for the kids from the closer-in areas? A version of the Beverly/Mount Greenwood Brats v. Hegewisch/Cal City/Lansing/NWI beefs your see at Mount Carmel back in the 80s and 90s.
I thought I heard somewhere that the land west of Marist, on which sits some of their athletic fields, is actually cemetery land and that Marist leases that land.
You're likely correct. It's always been land owned by the Archdiocese so either way Marist leases it from the Catholic Cemeteries or the Archdiocese direct. Since a girls school was never built, the land just stayed open and when Marist needed more space for girls sports and new sports (e.g. lacrosse) practice fields, they leased what they needed and do the upkeep and maintenance. That's a luxury other schools would love to have. BR, for example, is landlocked and Mother McAuley will not or cannot give them any additional space which is why their visitor stands are relatively small since they don't have the space to expand to increase the height. Ideally, it's too bad BR couldn't afford to buy some of the land to the south that is now Talley's Corner when that was sold. It's also unfortunate that SXU rebuffed the idea to replicate what Benet and Benedictine did to build one nice, big football facility that they share - teams and fans wouldn't even have to cross a street. SXU supposedly said 'they didn't want to play in a HS stadium'. Now, with the newer home stands, press box, and guest suites; BR's football facility overall is now nicer than Xav's. So much for common sense!
Like a lot of people said on this the reason for st Rita downfall is the feeder parish have disappeared but the single biggest reason is Blackmon and Badke.
Rice and StL aren't letting MC and Rita come into their backyards and take kids anymore. The previous coach, at least at Rice didnt hustle nor had the personality to be the face of the program and to sell kids/parents on Rice. It's pretty obvious they do now and it shows big time.
The mustang award doesn't carry as much weight anymore. And don't think for one second the mustang award doesn't go to the athlete Rita wants at each grammar school
Rice and StL aren't letting MC and Rita come into their backyards and take kids anymore. The previous coach, at least at Rice didnt hustle nor had the personality to be the face of the program and to sell kids/parents on Rice. It's pretty obvious they do now and it shows big time.
The mustang award doesn't carry as much weight anymore. And don't think for one second the mustang award doesn't go to the athlete Rita wants at each grammar school
Good points. The end of SR's feeder parish/neighborhoods is the primary reason. But you are right that SR, because of their football reputation/history, used to be able to occasionally grab the best players (Zvagnin; Billy Lynch; Sadowski brothers) out of the backyards of Rice and DeLaSalle. That is no longer the case.
Sorry St Rita, I am not sending my loved ones to 79th and Western or down to 64th and Stony. (watch WGN Morning news) We lived in Clearing and my older son went to St. Laurence and is now an alumni. Their report this year was record attendance on testing day if that's any indication. You usually test where you plan on attending. Also, word is, Coach Blackmon is doing some really good recruiting.
Rice is trying to fence off others and have "The State of Mt Greenwood"...like Miami in the U