Starkville Just Doesn't Get How to Improve/Progress/Anything..

ArcherSPS

Junior
Aug 22, 2012
3,637
244
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So tonight at the Board of Alderman meeting there was the minimum building ordinance was brought to the table...meaning less metal bldgs (something which would improve the look of the town) and of course Ben 17ing Carver was in favor of metal buildings. It's time we run some of these clowns out of their office. Jim Gafford@Gaffunken <small class="time" style="font-family: 'Gotham Narrow SSm', sans-serif, Arial; line-height: 18px; font-size: 13px; color: rgb(136, 153, 166); margin-right: 5px;"> 4h</small>Alderman Carver says half or more of our newer buildings have been metal fabrication as if that's a good thing.
Sandra Sistrunk @sistrunk_sandra ·


Clayton Richardson's son, Bo, talks about how many buildings in town wouldn't meet this standard. They're big users of metal buildings.

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Jim Gafford @Gaffunken · 4h

I humbly object to every thing Judge Mills has just said. Some of the finest jibber jabber ever uttered.

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Jim Gafford @Gaffunken · 4h

Judge Mills speaking in objection to the ordinance.

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Retweeted by Jim Gafford
Sandra Sistrunk @sistrunk_sandra · 4h

He says metal buildings can be made that are aesthetically pleasing. [Too bad those aren't the types our builders have used.]




 

esplanade91

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2010
5,656
0
0
You don't even went to get me started. Never has a town had such an opportunity to be something great but continuously shot itself in the foot to spite itself.
 

57stratdawg

Heisman
Dec 1, 2004
148,416
24,195
113
Starkville desperately needs to tighten down on the building codes. I saw the frame going up in the old theater parking lot by Chick-Fila and though "Dammit". You can tell that's going to be a ****** looking little strip mall.

smh
 

esplanade91

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2010
5,656
0
0
The problem with Starkville is no one stays in Starkville. Last weekend, at least 50% of the people I met at our alumni watch party were from Starkville, and between those it was a pretty diverse crowd from every demographic. The common thing between each and every one is how they felt about Starkville being "home" but how it can't get out of it's own way... Leading them to leave and only visit for Thanksgiving.

The people left in Starkville eligible to make decisions are the same people who were there and completely content with how things were 20 years ago. The same people who, if they could have their way, would have businesses closed on Sundays in observance of the sabbath, no alcohol PERIOD, and would make sure there would be no MSU memorabilia on Main Street because "Starkville doesn't need MSU." They're tacky and are the same people who would do the exact opposite of what Obama said even if they agreed with him.

Then there's the renaissance crowd who's doing a lot of great things for Starkville but aren't in a position to make decisions on building codes, so they just get frustrated and keep doing what they're doing while these ******** do what they do... Leading to a paradox of self loathing and continued optimism. Goddammit, Starkville.

Carskadon(s?) for Alderman!
 

ArcherSPS

Junior
Aug 22, 2012
3,637
244
63
I really want to find one poster on this board in agreement with Mills or Rev. Carver....Someone try to agree with their stupid 17ing logic.
 

Mjoelner

All-Conference
Sep 2, 2006
2,686
1,160
113
Sugar shacks! We need more sugar shacks! That way the whole town will look like a big migrant worker camp from the Grapes of Wrath!

We finally passed an ordinance (I think) to stop those damn things but now we're promoting the metal version of them. LOL WOW!
 

ArcherSPS

Junior
Aug 22, 2012
3,637
244
63
Also here's the full details from that session: @StarkDispatch · 5h

Carver says he’s supportive of reducing gravel parking lots, but the metal building restrictions might go too far.

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Starkville Dispatch @StarkDispatch · 5h

Little: This is a work in progress. It can be tweaked at any point.

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Starkville Dispatch @StarkDispatch · 5h

Resident: This is a preference issue. Don’t force something down residents’ and developers’ throats the city isn’t even willing to follow.

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Starkville Dispatch @StarkDispatch · 5h

Wiseman cuts the judge off at the time limit, but before using the gavel.

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Starkville Dispatch @StarkDispatch · 5h

Mills: What happens when we put Gulf States out of business?

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Starkville Dispatch @StarkDispatch · 5h

Mills says he worked for Gulf States manufacturing. He’s the second person to speak who currently or previously worked for the company.

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Starkville Dispatch @StarkDispatch · 5h

We’re onto public comments. Judge Jim Mills is vigorously defending the construction of metal buildings in Starkville.

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Starkville Dispatch @StarkDispatch · 5h

Carver says he’s still on the fence about the proposal. Pre-existing structures would be grandfathered, but major changes would follow rules

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Starkville Dispatch @StarkDispatch · 5h

Little: Metal buildings without facades will still be allowed in certain parts of town.

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Starkville Dispatch @StarkDispatch · 5h

Little: Residents want their town to look nice. At minimum, we need to have a conversation on this.

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Starkville Dispatch @StarkDispatch · 5h

We’ve moved to the minimum designs hearing. Little is introducing the matter, says other cities have seen an improvement with aesthetics.




 

Sutterkane

Redshirt
Jan 23, 2007
5,100
0
0
By all means, protect a company that is putting out a product that nobody likes. Government cronyism at its best.
 
Nov 16, 2005
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I went to school with Jim's wife, known her since first grade. Them and a another couple I went to school with that live in Starkville get really frustrated with the decisions made. It's incredibly mind blowing stupid what these morons come up with.
 

WayboDawg

Redshirt
Jun 7, 2013
1,219
1
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Sounds like Starkville struggles with the same zoning issues that just about every small town in Mississippi struggles with: Business owners and trailer trash who want to keep costs down with cheap and/or old ugly buildings........and progressive residents who would like to present a more beautiful town to tourists and visitors. From my own outside view, I have always thought of Starkville as a pretty town for the most part. Starkville does have it's unflattering parts, but it's still much more aesthetically pleasing than 80% of the towns you see in Mississippi (obviously the university helps a great deal). I understand that the residents would like to see it become something special though.
 

Resolved

Redshirt
May 18, 2008
622
0
0
"They're tacky and are the same people who would do the exact opposite of what Obama said even if they agreed with him."

i agree agree with everything you say except this. The mayor is a flaming liberal.
 

Southern Law Dawg

Sophomore
Aug 22, 2012
790
107
43
"They're tacky and are the same people who would do the exact opposite of what Obama said even if they agreed with him."

i agree agree with everything you say except this. The mayor is a flaming liberal.

Sure, but he is also responsible for a ton of the positive change we've seen in Starkville lately. He's had to fight the BoA tooth and nail to even get as far as he has.
 

ArcherSPS

Junior
Aug 22, 2012
3,637
244
63
What has Wiseman done to make your quality of life/anything worse than when he took office?
 

johnson86-1

All-Conference
Aug 22, 2012
14,362
4,866
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By all means, protect a company that is putting out a product that nobody likes. Government cronyism at its best.

This is completely backwards. They wouldn't have to ban them if nobody likes them. I think there are reasonable arguments on both sides. I would prefer no metal buildings, but that is imposing a cost on landowners. And having loose zoning is certainly not cronyism.
 

esplanade91

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2010
5,656
0
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"They're tacky and are the same people who would do the exact opposite of what Obama said even if they agreed with him."

i agree agree with everything you say except this. The mayor is a flaming liberal.

I sit on the fence, but the only policies that will directly benefit struggling 20th century towns like Starkville will be perceived as liberal and radical. That's just the way it is. There can't be any trickle down effect in a town where the only people in the upper middle class are the few self employed lawyers and the doctors at the OCH.

What has Wiseman done to make your quality of life/anything worse than when he took office?

I can think of one "radical" policy he implemented, and it was the LGBT policy put into place when the Arizona law popped up about not serving da ghuys. To be clear, I'm all for it. I think it does zero harm while helping us counter our stereotype to prospective students and professors. Even if they're not LGBT, they see that we have a policy like that... It just does good. Wiseman has been good about policies like that... But I guess it makes him a flaming liberal. Apparently being liberal is a bad thing.
 

EAVdog

Redshirt
Aug 10, 2010
2,336
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You just described the problem with every town in MS.

The problem with Starkville is no one stays in Starkville. Last weekend, at least 50% of the people I met at our alumni watch party were from Starkville, and between those it was a pretty diverse crowd from every demographic. The common thing between each and every one is how they felt about Starkville being "home" but how it can't get out of it's own way... Leading them to leave and only visit for Thanksgiving.

The people left in Starkville eligible to make decisions are the same people who were there and completely content with how things were 20 years ago. The same people who, if they could have their way, would have businesses closed on Sundays in observance of the sabbath, no alcohol PERIOD, and would make sure there would be no MSU memorabilia on Main Street because "Starkville doesn't need MSU." They're tacky and are the same people who would do the exact opposite of what Obama said even if they agreed with him.

Then there's the renaissance crowd who's doing a lot of great things for Starkville but aren't in a position to make decisions on building codes, so they just get frustrated and keep doing what they're doing while these ******** do what they do... Leading to a paradox of self loathing and continued optimism. Goddammit, Starkville.

Carskadon(s?) for Alderman!

Either way too many Good Old Boys or Dubmasses entrenched in power. A lot of folks leave, and some come back after being places that are more progressive only to wish they hadn't. Only sometimes.
 

futaba.79

Redshirt
Jun 4, 2007
2,296
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Please enlighten me..........

what does this mean?

"I sit on the fence, but the only policies that will directly benefit struggling 20th century towns like Starkville will be perceived as liberal and radical. That's just the way it is. There can't be any trickle down effect in a town where the only people in the upper middle class are the few self employed lawyers and the doctors at the OCH."
 

esplanade91

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2010
5,656
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what does this mean?

"I sit on the fence, but the only policies that will directly benefit struggling 20th century towns like Starkville will be perceived as liberal and radical. That's just the way it is. There can't be any trickle down effect in a town where the only people in the upper middle class are the few self employed lawyers and the doctors at the OCH."

I gave a pretty good example of a social issue, the LGBT thing.

But if you need others, you can throw in there how Starkville is one of only a handful of Mississippi towns that has an additional sales tax, and that sales tax goes directly to a lot of programs that Starkville otherwise couldn't afford or otherwise have. Namely Bulldog Bash, which according to the owner of one of those Dan Camp bars makes up something crazy like 50% of their annual revenue in one night. That's without even mentioning how for that one night open container policies go out the window (liberal).

I don't particularly claim either political party. I think certain situations require case-by-case policies, but small towns with little to no industry... Starkville... Stand to benefit with what most people on this board would consider liberal. I think you could chalk up free market building codes as a conservative idea, and we're universally bitching about that. We also ***** about restrictions on alcohol sales and how ****** public works is.

I'm not advocating that Starkville should start it's own healthcare system. But typically small towns have liberal local governments. Even in Mississippi. Wiseman isn't radical.
 
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dickiedawg

All-Conference
Feb 22, 2008
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The other part of the equation is that you can STILL BUILD a gulf states building and put a decent looking front on it.
 

godlluB

Redshirt
Sep 24, 2012
504
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I really want to find one poster on this board in agreement with Mills or Rev. Carver....Someone try to agree with their stupid 17ing logic.

The term "private property" means it's none of the government's damned business what I build on land that I own.

The Starkville Board of aldermen need to spend more time worrying about the fact that Starkville has one of the highest unemployment rates in the state with the highest unemployment rate and try to lure some industry and manufacturing jobs into the area instead of worrying so much about sidewalks, signs, and metal buildings. If sidewalks are so damned important to the alderman, why haven't any of them ponied up their own money to put a sidewalk in front of their own houses?

How about that?
 

ArcherSPS

Junior
Aug 22, 2012
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"The Starkville Board of aldermen need to spend more time worrying about the fact that Starkville has one of the highest unemployment rates in the state with the highest unemployment rate and try to lure some industry and manufacturing jobs into the area instead of worrying so much about sidewalks, signs, and metal buildings."
Good to see you posting here Mr. Mills...You do realize we could bring more jobs and more growth when the city looks like a decent 17ing town but not when the main damn road into the town is cluttered with check advance services and metal buildings. I'm glad you have such backwards *** thinking that has kept this town behind Oxford, Auburn, Athens, Fayetteville, etc. for the last 30 damn years. Do you realize how much business doesnt even give Starkville a second look after they see the **** hole that is hwy 12?
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
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This is completely backwards. They wouldn't have to ban them if nobody likes them. I think there are reasonable arguments on both sides. I would prefer no metal buildings, but that is imposing a cost on landowners. And having loose zoning is certainly not cronyism.

Of course the guy building it at half the cost "likes" it. That doesn't mean it should be so.
 

Slippery Pete

Redshirt
Sep 10, 2009
101
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I hear the school system also plays a role in holding Starkville back. I don't remember the ranking for SPS, but I remember it being poor in comparison with Tupelo, Madison, Oxford/Lafayette Counties. School options out in the county are even worse. We're the largest university in the state (the land grant university) and have a decent sized Education dept. on campus and yet, we're not even in the top 10 public school systems in the state. It looks like our administration, some of which send their children to the academy-and that's their choice and right to do so-would be working cooperatively with the public school system to improve academic performance and discipline issues. They could be, but it's my understanding that MSU Dept. of Ed. and SPS have very little interaction.
On a more positive note, at least they're now doing a better job of keeping the roadkill cleaned up on 12 and 182 within the city limits...
 

Bulldogg31

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2013
8,263
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"Apparently being liberal is a bad thing."

Generally the liberals/progressives I know want to impose their beliefs and views on everyone around them. In this case they want other people's buildings to look a certain way in order to please their eye and, in their opinion, improve the look and desirability of the town. Not surprising the liberal viewpoint would be strong in a university town since higher education is full of people who believe they have better ideas of how things should work than the people who actually make things that do work.

Generally the conservatives/libertarians I know hold personal liberties and individuals' rights to pursue happiness in high regard. The right of the individual to seek their own way and make their way as they see fit supersedes the community's right to tell them how to do it. In this case it is building structures that allow for business to be conducted at profitable levels.

In my opinion, the free market should determine what is built and what is not, rather than bureaucracy. If you want nicer buildings on Hwy 12 and you believe the market will support the businesses within, then go build them.
 

Wicked Pissah

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
1,437
0
0
"Apparently being liberal is a bad thing."

Generally the liberals/progressives I know want to impose their beliefs and views on everyone around them. In this case they want other people's buildings to look a certain way in order to please their eye and, in their opinion, improve the look and desirability of the town. Not surprising the liberal viewpoint would be strong in a university town since higher education is full of people who believe they have better ideas of how things should work than the people who actually make things that do work.

Generally the conservatives/libertarians I know hold personal liberties and individuals' rights to pursue happiness in high regard. The right of the individual to seek their own way and make their way as they see fit supersedes the community's right to tell them how to do it. In this case it is building structures that allow for business to be conducted at profitable levels.

In my opinion, the free market should determine what is built and what is not, rather than bureaucracy. If you want nicer buildings on Hwy 12 and you believe the market will support the businesses within, then go build them.

So much fail in your second paragraph I wont even begin.
 

AFDawg

Senior
Apr 28, 2010
3,278
524
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Generally the liberals/progressives I know want to impose their beliefs and views on everyone around them. In this case they want other people's buildings to look a certain way in order to please their eye and, in their opinion, improve the look and desirability of the town.

Mary Hawkins Butler says hi.
 

johnson86-1

All-Conference
Aug 22, 2012
14,362
4,866
113
Of course the guy building it at half the cost "likes" it. That doesn't mean it should be so.

I agree. And on the flip side, just because the person that doesn't own the land and doesn't have to bear the cost of building wants to take a 'cost is not an issue' approach when it comes to aesthetics, doesn't mean zoning ordinances should take that approach.

I was just pointing out it's not cronyism to let people build what they want on their property, provided the rules are enforced more or less equally. And I would prefer not allowing metal buildings without a facade anywhere there is traffic, so basically ban it anywhere outside of designated commercial or industrial districts and ban it on decent sized thoroughfares like 12, 82, montgomery, university, and stark even if there is commercial and industrial development there. But I'm not the one bearing the cost of an ordinance like that so it's easy for me to support it.
 

esplanade91

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2010
5,656
0
0
"Apparently being liberal is a bad thing."

Generally the liberals/progressives I know want to impose their beliefs and views on everyone around them. In this case they want other people's buildings to look a certain way in order to please their eye and, in their opinion, improve the look and desirability of the town. Not surprising the liberal viewpoint would be strong in a university town since higher education is full of people who believe they have better ideas of how things should work than the people who actually make things that do work.

Generally the conservatives/libertarians I know hold personal liberties and individuals' rights to pursue happiness in high regard. The right of the individual to seek their own way and make their way as they see fit supersedes the community's right to tell them how to do it. In this case it is building structures that allow for business to be conducted at profitable levels.

In my opinion, the free market should determine what is built and what is not, rather than bureaucracy. If you want nicer buildings on Hwy 12 and you believe the market will support the businesses within, then go build them.

Both sides of the fence think the other thinks their opinions matter more.

And I'm generally all about the free market. But just because I think I can make money by gluing some sticks together to make a shack and selling whatever drunk college kids will buy doesn't mean I should be able to. There's a big difference in ordinances and free market economics. If I have to explain them, we shouldn't be having this conversation. Even the most conservative parts of the state have more stringent ordinances than Starkville, which is the issue here. There are none. Someone can buy a shed at Home Depot, stick it on the side of 12, and sell crawfish out of it with almost no paper work. I'd venture to say that you probably couldn't get away with building almost anything in Starkville where YOU live, because you have practical people in your town's leadership... They probably vote republican too.

When you don't require people to have capital to build a decent building, do you honestly think they have a good business model too? It's the same reason we have 30 fried chicken restaurants, a "dress for less" shop 10 feet from campus in a prime location, and a title loan place in an abandoned Wendy's.
 

Sutterkane

Redshirt
Jan 23, 2007
5,100
0
0
You can bet your *** if a business decided to save costs by building straw and mud huts that these same people who are protecting the manufacturer would have a fit in the name of aesthetics. It has nothing to do with cost when they ask about putting a particular company out of business by enforcing a specific code that the majority wants.
 

engie

Freshman
May 29, 2011
10,756
92
48
There is definitely a happy medium to be found there. It's the all-out resistance to change that I have a problem with. There's a smart approach that lies somewhere in compromise -- and the failure to compromise is a huge problem in Starkville. I thought the plan, as presented, already showed a nice compromise in that it still allows the metal buildings to be built -- just forces them to build facades.
 

Wicked Pissah

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
1,437
0
0
I noticed some metal building going up next to chik fil a. Best real estate in Starkville and it is a metal building with i-beams?

Geez. Just driving through starkville, it all needs an overhaul. The roads are pathetic. I know change is slow but it will take our lifetimes to make it a great college town.

One problem is money. Nobody wants to spend it. People ***** about all the chains but Ive been to restaurant tyler and there be 2 people for lunch. It is one of the better places to eat in the state.

Id love a nice bar to drink at but any bar charging $5 a beer would be out of business. It is either dollar you call it or nothing it seems.

Reminds me of folks that ***** about wal mart but shop there because it is cheapest . The reason is they stopped going to mom and pops and put them out of business. Now , it is just wal mart.

Not trying to be an "***" but it seems like a large number of the town and their leaders need to learn about class or just venture outside of their bubble every now and then.

That said, if i was in college, id love starkville. You can eat on $8 a day and get wasted at a bar for $20 but for post grads or families, it blows. Luckily, the tailgate and gameday is top notch in starkville.

Edit - we ate at obys and passed all those bright colored houses and my wife goes "my god why would they let someone build those and paint them that way"

Edit 2 - i love starkville. It isnt just starkville, it is almost all small towns. Oxford, hattiesburg, all of them. I think oxford does a little better job of hiding it however.
 
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Bulldogg31

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2013
8,263
0
0
In my experience, not much falls neatly on one side of the fence or the other.

I don't live in Starkville, or Mississippi for that matter, and regulations like this may be needed there if it's as bad as you say. I can tell you where I live it is more difficult to get projects done now than it ever has been, and time is money.

My comments on liberals/conservatives are from the experiences I've had. Several don't agree which is fine, but those views represent people I know. I find most people I know to be fiscal conservatives/social moderates, but I'm sure it varies by life circumstance.
 

seshomoru

Junior
Apr 24, 2006
5,603
293
83
So you just finished the classical approach in Intro to Macro didn't you?

Keep reading... it gets a little trickier.
 

esplanade91

Redshirt
Dec 9, 2010
5,656
0
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In my experience, not much falls neatly on one side of the fence or the other.

I don't live in Starkville, or Mississippi for that matter, and regulations like this may be needed there if it's as bad as you say. I can tell you where I live it is more difficult to get projects done now than it ever has been, and time is money.

My comments on liberals/conservatives are from the experiences I've had. Several don't agree which is fine, but those views represent people I know. I find most people I know to be fiscal conservatives/social moderates, but I'm sure it varies by life circumstance.
Starkville's headed in a great direction. But a very small group of people who hold universally different opinions than anyone else make up the same group of people who get to decide things. It's the age old story of people getting elected and instead of representing their people they represent their own opinions, which in this case are ****** opinions that fall just short of Footloose.

But just like uniforms, stadiums, recruits, coaches, or anything else... They keep getting better, but we'll keep finding things to ***** about. In 20 years I'll be complaining about the shade of brick and the types of flowers and trees they used to fill in the medians on Russell Street (fingers crossed)
 

mstateglfr

All-American
Feb 24, 2008
16,039
5,867
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The term "private property" means it's none of the government's damned business what I build on land that I own.

I could list, quite literally, 2 dozen different things that you cant build on the land you own. Furthermore, you own it for as long as you pay taxes on it.
Private property is a misnomer, if there ever was one.
Private property is about as accurate a term as 'free market'. Our free market is set up to operate within set restricted guidelines. Its anything but free.

Keep tilting at those windmills, Don!