Stars DO Matter

[msu71]

<div class="messageContent">
<article>
<blockquote class="messageText ugc baseHtml">

What has become obvious to me while watching MSU since Mullen has
arrived has been his ability to coach-up our recruits to play at a high
level within the SEC. We went from not competing at all against the
best teams within our conference to taking them to the wire. That is
certainly a big step forward.

However, what also is very obvious is that we somehow cannot get the
best recruits (4 and 5 star) in our own state to come join us. When the
game is on the line, stars DO matter. Look at that number 7 for LSU.
You can't coach that. That is God-given talent and LSU has guys like
that sitting on the bench waiting their turn. So does Alabama.

So in order for us to actually challenge these teams for the conference
championship, we need to get some of these types of players to come to
MSU. Jackie was able to do it for a number of years in the 90's. I
actually sat in the stands and said, "We have better players than
Alabama, Florida, and Auburn" and we beat them soundly in the 4th
quarter.

Mullen needs to prove his worth not only on the field but also in
February. If we lose most of the 4 and 5 star recruits in our own state
this year to Alabama, LSU, and scUM (for whatever reasons), we need to
re-evaluate how we are recruiting. This season is not yet half over and
I hope we can do what we did last year. But the real season is
February. And it must be better that what we currently have in order to
win more than 6 or 7 games a year.[/quote]
</article>


</div>

 

[msu71]

<div class="messageContent">
<article>
<blockquote class="messageText ugc baseHtml">

What has become obvious to me while watching MSU since Mullen has
arrived has been his ability to coach-up our recruits to play at a high
level within the SEC. We went from not competing at all against the
best teams within our conference to taking them to the wire. That is
certainly a big step forward.

However, what also is very obvious is that we somehow cannot get the
best recruits (4 and 5 star) in our own state to come join us. When the
game is on the line, stars DO matter. Look at that number 7 for LSU.
You can't coach that. That is God-given talent and LSU has guys like
that sitting on the bench waiting their turn. So does Alabama.

So in order for us to actually challenge these teams for the conference
championship, we need to get some of these types of players to come to
MSU. Jackie was able to do it for a number of years in the 90's. I
actually sat in the stands and said, "We have better players than
Alabama, Florida, and Auburn" and we beat them soundly in the 4th
quarter.

Mullen needs to prove his worth not only on the field but also in
February. If we lose most of the 4 and 5 star recruits in our own state
this year to Alabama, LSU, and scUM (for whatever reasons), we need to
re-evaluate how we are recruiting. This season is not yet half over and
I hope we can do what we did last year. But the real season is
February. And it must be better that what we currently have in order to
win more than 6 or 7 games a year.[/quote]
</article>


</div>

 

[chew1095]

Mathieu was a ranked a 3 star (according to Scout) with no other SEC offers. LSU beat out FIU, Miami (OH), SMU, USM, Tulane and ULM for him.

 

[patdog]

And, in fact, a lot of his most highly rated recruits were complete busts. Stars don't mean a thing because the people giving out the stars don't know any more about football than I do.

 

[Seinfeld]

Here are the conference recruiting rankings from the last 5 years. The only two teams that are grossly out of place are Georgia and Arkansas, and that falls directly in line with the reason that Richt is on the hot seat while Petrino is considered to be one of the better coaches in the conference.

<table width="458" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><colgroup><col style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:2446;
width:52pt" span="2" width="69"><col style="width:48pt" span="5" width="64"></col></col></colgroup><tbody><tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"><td class="xl66" style="height: 14.4pt; width: 52pt; text-align: center;" height="19" width="69"></td><td class="xl66" style="border-left: medium none; width: 52pt; text-align: center;" width="69">2007</td><td class="xl66" style="border-left: medium none; width: 48pt; text-align: center;" width="64">2008</td><td class="xl66" style="border-left: medium none; width: 48pt; text-align: center;" width="64">2009</td><td class="xl66" style="border-left: medium none; width: 48pt; text-align: center;" width="64">2010</td><td class="xl66" style="border-left: medium none; width: 48pt; text-align: center;" width="64">2011</td><td class="xl66" style="border-left: medium none; width: 48pt; text-align: center;" width="64">Avg</td></tr><tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"><td class="xl66" style="height: 14.4pt; border-top: medium none; text-align: center;" height="19">Alabama</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">7</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">1</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">1</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">2</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">4</td><td class="xl67" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">3.0</td></tr><tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"><td class="xl66" style="height: 14.4pt; border-top: medium none; text-align: center;" height="19">LSU</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">3</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">3</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">2</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">4</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">3</td><td class="xl67" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">3.0</td></tr><tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"><td class="xl66" style="height: 14.4pt; border-top: medium none; text-align: center;" height="19">Auburn<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"></span></td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">4</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">5</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">6</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">3</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">1</td><td class="xl67" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">3.8</td></tr><tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"><td class="xl66" style="height: 14.4pt; border-top: medium none; text-align: center;" height="19">Georgia</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">6</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">2</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">3</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">7</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">2</td><td class="xl67" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">4.0</td></tr><tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"><td class="xl66" style="height: 14.4pt; border-top: medium none; text-align: center;" height="19">Florida</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">1</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">4</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">10</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">1</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">8</td><td class="xl67" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">4.8</td></tr><tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"><td class="xl66" style="height: 14.4pt; border-top: medium none; text-align: center;" height="19">Tennessee</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">2</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">9</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">4</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">6</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">6</td><td class="xl67" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">5.4</td></tr><tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"><td class="xl66" style="height: 14.4pt; border-top: medium none; text-align: center;" height="19">SC</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">5</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">8</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">5</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">8</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">5</td><td class="xl67" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">6.2</td></tr><tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"><td class="xl66" style="height: 14.4pt; border-top: medium none; text-align: center;" height="19">OM</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">9</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">10</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">7</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">5</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">9</td><td class="xl67" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">8.0</td></tr><tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"><td class="xl66" style="height: 14.4pt; border-top: medium none; text-align: center;" height="19">Arkansas</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">10</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">6</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">9</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">9</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">7</td><td class="xl67" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">8.2</td></tr><tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"><td class="xl66" style="height: 14.4pt; border-top: medium none; text-align: center;" height="19">MSU</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">8</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">7</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">8</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">10</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">11</td><td class="xl67" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">8.8</td></tr><tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"><td class="xl66" style="height: 14.4pt; border-top: medium none; text-align: center;" height="19">Kentucky<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"></span></td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">11</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">11</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">11</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">11</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">10</td><td class="xl67" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">10.8</td></tr><tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"><td class="xl66" style="height: 14.4pt; border-top: medium none; text-align: center;" height="19">Vandy</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">12</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">12</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">12</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">12</td><td class="xl66" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">12</td><td class="xl67" style="border-top: medium none; border-left: medium none; text-align: center;">12.0</td></tr></tbody></table>

 

[BigMSUDawg]

there's something you have to keep in mind when you look at those star ratings and especially in hindsight, like you've done in that chart.

Those stars are NOT intrinsic to the player. They are assigned by people like Yancy and Gene that look at whatever factors they think are relevant. I think the MOST relevant factor that is usually used when their number is assigned IS WHO IS ALREADY RECRUITING THEM!

If a player has a higher star rating assigned because Alabama is recruiting them, then it's inevitable that Alabama will have a higher star average. It's circular logic. Your chart intimates that a pool of potential players are assigned
stars on some basis other than who is recruiting them and then, as if
by some force of nature, the 'best' players get recruited by what turns out to be the
'best' teams. What you are seeing here is called confirmation bias.

You know how a 3 star recruit in October becomes a 4 star recruit in February? Other teams start recruiting him. The day a player says 'and Ole Miss' in their list of prospective schools, Yancy adjusts his rating up. What does that have to do with how good that player actually is? I suggest, 'nothing'.

 

[Wizard.sixpack]

nm

 

[aTotal360]

nm

 

[Wizard.sixpack]

link

What does this tell us?? How weak the Big Ten is compared to the SEC or the lack of the NFL's ability to gauge talent because every one of these guys is in the NFL......hmmm

 

[DAWG61]

Mullen can't out recruit the big boys till he beats them soundly on the field over and over. Mullen can't beat the big boys till he out recruits them several years in a row. Mullen HAS to out coach to win. He needs to keep his good assistant coaches here also

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

tell yall what, i'll take a team of 90% 4* and 5* and a handful of choice 3*, you take a team of 90% 2* and 3* and a handful of 4* and maybe 1 5*, and we'll see who wins most of the time.

there's a reason the teams consistently int he top 10-15 in recruiting are usually in the top 25 most years and usually top 10-15. yes nothing is perfect, but the stars give a pretty good hint at which teams will be good over the next few years.

look at it this way, a 5* maybe has a 70% chance of becoming a good sec quality starter, a 4* a 50% chance, a 3* a 35% chance, a 2* a 20% chance, and a 1* a 5% chance. the more 4* and 5* you can land, the more room for error you have. if 1 4* QB doesn't pan out, plug in your other 4* QB. if you are living in the 3* and under realm, you better bat well above avg when it comes to evaluating talent and seeing potential in a guy that hasn't reached it yet.

there's a reason bama, fla, lsu, texas, okla, usc, f$u, ohio st, michigan, etc. are also near the top or within 1 or 2 recruiting classes of being back at the top and it's because they can sign more 4* and 5* recruits in 1 class than we can in 4 or 5 years. <div>
</div><div>for every 3* superstar, there are 10 3* busts.</div>

 

[Wizard.sixpack]

made some valid points but unfortunately they were all your interpretation not actual facts....with my last post I was not saying stars dont matter only asking the question why has Ohio State had so much success getting 3 stars to the NFL....because of their name??? Does the NFL suck at gauging talent???? Do I think if we had a recruiting class littered with only 5 and 4 stars we would be better? of course!! but I also have seen 5 star busts because the coach either misused them or didnt pull out their maximum potential....coaching is a big factor as well....

 

[Rebels7]

Just look at Al Davis.

 

[ckDOG]

Mullen HAS to out coach to win.

That's part of it, but the fans play a major part too. We have to continue filling the stadium and creating a good atmosphere. Our fans are doing their part in the stadium and in contributing money for facilities upgrades (see practice facility). But, that's just now. If we struggle the rest of the season and we don't fill up DWS, we are without a doubt going to be behind the 8 ball in recruiting. Money and support is the foundation of any successful program in a competitive environment. If the fans get lazy, we stand no chance going forward.

 

[Foronce]

there's a reason bama, fla, lsu, texas, okla, usc, f$u, ohio st, michigan, etc. are also near the top

and there are a **** load more reasons they are near the top rather than star rankings...
history
tradition
alumni base
they Win
they are basically college football


star rankings in just are nerds at a computer who compile a list of talented recruits in order
some pan out and some don't ...when you say stars matter you are saying
yancey knows more about football than saban or saban offered the kid so yancey bumped his star rating up

At msu, and that is really all we need to discuss ... is depth, until we have that we really don't have to worry about stars

Don't look at bama, fla, lsu, texas, okla, usc, f$u, ohio st, michigan, etc. when you make an argument for stars
compare to like programs ole miss and msu
ole miss has beaten our *** 4 out of the last 5 years in star gazing... you rather be in their shoes right now

stars aren't all that matters.

 

[Dental Dawg]

I honestly can't remember State and Ole Miss out recruiting Florida in the year 2009. Seems to me they were always in top 3 in SEC.

 

[klerushund]

...how many yards WVU put up against LSU's defense? How'd they do that? Holgorsen (sp?) out-schemed them. The turnovers & defense killed them, but the yardage tells us something.<div>
</div><div>State can't compete with these teams unless we out-scheme them. We need to be doing something different than everyone else in the conference. If it's the veer option, the air raid, or whatever. A tactical advantage is the only way to bridge the talent gulf. Spread option has almost become ubiquitous, so it might be time to try something different than that. But running similar schemes as Bama, LSU & Florida run with lesser players isn't going to get us anywhere.</div>

 

[patdog]

over a Gene/Yancy/Steve's evaluation any day of the week.

 

[Rebels7]

I would too.

 

[Seinfeld]

Technically, we did outrank them but if you look closely, it's obvious that it's due to sheer quantity. Florida's class was definitely better from a quality perspective, but they only signed 16 players that year. Wasn't that also the year that Urban resigned and then came back a few weeks later? That may have had something to do with the smaller class.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

there's a reason bama, fla, lsu, texas, okla, usc, f$u, ohio st, michigan, etc. are also near the top

and there are a **** load more reasons they are near the top rather than star rankings...
history
tradition
alumni base
they Win
they are basically college football


star rankings in just are nerds at a computer who compile a list of talented recruits in order
some pan out and some don't ...when you say stars matter you are saying
yancey knows more about football than saban or saban offered the kid so yancey bumped his star rating up

At msu, and that is really all we need to discuss ... is depth, until we have that we really don't have to worry about stars

Don't look at bama, fla, lsu, texas, okla, usc, f$u, ohio st, michigan, etc. when you make an argument for stars
compare to like programs ole miss and msu
ole miss has beaten our *** 4 out of the last 5 years in star gazing... you rather be in their shoes right now

stars aren't all that matters.

the difference between msu and ole miss in recruiting the last couple years is pretty thin and a much narrower gap than the gap between ole miss and the teams consistently landing top 10-15 classes. the difference between msu and ole miss general comes down to 1 or 2 key players. the difference between msu/ole miss and bama/fla/lsu/f$u/etc is usually 10-15 players who never thought about going to msu or ole miss and had scholarship offers from every school int eh country.
<div>
</div><div>as for other reasons bama and fla and lsu, etc. are better being history and money and facilities and all that, it doesn't change the fact that they regular signed top 10 classes and those players have panned out. yes coaching was involved to an extent, but history and even facilities and fanbases and tradition have very little to do with how a player develops on campus. they sign the best players because of all those aspects you listed, and the best players are usually 4* and 5* players. it's not a coincidence that the best programs with the most history and the most money and the highest paid coaches also sign the most talent as evaluated by nerds at rivals and scout and 247. 90+% of the time, if saban and lesticles and bob stoops and mac brown listed their top 100 recruits, it would match up with the recruiting sites. it's not a coincidence that the guys the recruiting sites give 5* get scholarship offers from every major program in the country. do i trust coaches more than scout/rivals/247? yes. do the top players on scout/rivals/247 usually end up signing with the top programs? yep. would we love to sign them too if we could get more interested? yep. do the top programs usually have far mroe good years than bad due to their fanbases/facilities/money/tradition/etc allowing them to continue to sign 4* and 5* kids every year? yep. </div><div>
</div><div>i'm not saying you have to recruit top 10 classes every year to win, but you better hit on a lot of the 3* guys you do land. you better be a superior talent evaluator and developer because if you miss on 3 or 4 OL in a class, you are creating a big time void (look at us this year with the injuries).</div><div>
</div><div>individually, yes recruiting rankings can miss. however looking at the big picture, recruiting rankings are far more often right than wrong, and recruiting is a numbers game. in football you need 50 or so players ready to play full time downs every week, and you are gonna find those 50 a lot easier with classes of 4* and 5* guys than you will with classes of 2* and 3* guys. you can't deny that. look at the last decade of CFB and prove me wrong.</div>

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

numbers. unlike lsu and bama, florida doesn't get into the oversigning game, and they had a small graduating class, therefore signed a small recruiting class.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

...how many yards WVU put up against LSU's defense? How'd they do that? Holgorsen (sp?) out-schemed them. The turnovers & defense killed them, but the yardage tells us something.<div>
</div><div>State can't compete with these teams unless we out-scheme them. We need to be doing something different than everyone else in the conference. If it's the veer option, the air raid, or whatever. A tactical advantage is the only way to bridge the talent gulf. Spread option has almost become ubiquitous, so it might be time to try something different than that. But running similar schemes as Bama, LSU & Florida run with lesser players isn't going to get us anywhere.</div>

well throwing the ball 65 times will help get some yardage. also, wvu was down 3 TDs right off the bat and started the ball inside their own 20 all night, so lsu would sit back and allow short underneath routes and take away big plays. once wvu closed the gap, lsu's D stepped right back up and shut them down again.
<div>
</div><div>not to mention, quite frankly, wvu probably has a better offense than we do due to OL injuries. but yeah, if we were down 20+ to LSU early, i bet we'd have had more yardage just chunking the ball and abandoning the running game. instead we were close enough to run our standard offense until the 4th quarter.</div>

 

[DAWG61]

...how many yards WVU put up against LSU's defense? How'd they do that? Holgorsen (sp?) out-schemed them. The turnovers & defense killed them, but the yardage tells us something.<div>
</div><div>State can't compete with these teams unless we out-scheme them. We need to be doing something different than everyone else in the conference. If it's the veer option, the air raid, or whatever. A tactical advantage is the only way to bridge the talent gulf. Spread option has almost become ubiquitous, so it might be time to try something different than that. But running similar schemes as Bama, LSU & Florida run with lesser players isn't going to get us anywhere.</div>

this falls under that out coaching theme. Btw did anyone else see how LSU was lining up on kicks and using that rugby kicker? I like that we are trying to emulate the Oregon offense but Oregon doesn't run the ball up the middle all game long. I think our coaches are confused on offense and if they are confused how bad is it for our players?

 

[klerushund]

1. WVU throws it a bunch regardless of the situation. Maybe they threw slightly more because they were down early, but that's their m.o. as a team. Not to mention they closed the gap after being down big early.<div>
</div><div>2. We were never close against LSU. Sure the score "looked" close, but they controlled the game the entire time and were never in danger. Why? Because we can't throw. If we'd gotten down 21-0 early against them it would have ended around 49-0.</div><div>
</div><div>Dan's focus should be recruiting/developing our passing game. It's proven that our talent can't run the Tebow offense with success against top caliber defenses (example: Chris Relf has never led a touchdown drive against LSU or Alabama...ever). Why? We don't have Florida's talent or Tim Tebow for that matter. Against bad defenses it's fine, but only beating bad defenses will put our ceiling at about 4th in the West.</div>

 

[Foronce]

i'm not saying you have to recruit top 10 classes every year to win, but you better hit on a lot of the 3* guys you do land. you better be a superior talent evaluator and developer because if you miss on 3 or 4 OL in a class, you are creating a big time void (look at us this year with the injuries).

our problem this year on our oline is because Croom recruited 2 guys in 2008 one is on our practice squad and the other is out for the year
in 2009 he signed 2 more ....he signed 4 in 2 years and missed on 2 of them.
No way in hell you can hang any of that on Mullen

since we have signed
5 in 2010 all RS ...brought in 1 more than plays as a wo
3 in 2011 all hope to RS ...1 juco
already have 2 this year committed

-----now back to the stars
you are going to lose comparing MSU to Bama/LSU/etc because they don't lose games, they have a forever head start on us
we have had 2 winning years in the last 10
recruits know if they go to Bama and something happen coach leaves, they will be ok the history and administration has proven they can win
you don't know that at MSU, where as you only get a strong front line, smaller schools have a tougher time building depth
5* recruits don't want to come sit on the bench at a MSU, when they can sit on one at Bama

we aren't promising playing time to anyone
in 2009 we RS 11 fr
in 2010 we RS 18 fr
this year we look to RS 16fr

Mullen is building a depth foundation, with recruits that want to come here and guess what 5* kids don't want to sit on the bench at a school that lost 2 out of the last 10years ...it is not a quick fix
sure I believe we can get to where we are competing with the top level SEC teams, but you don't do it over night ...meanwhile until top recruits are interested in us you have to get your guys and go to work.

 

[Eureka Dog]

(coming out of HS) combined.

It's probably one of those statistics that jump out at you, but when you examineit, it's not so surprising. I suspect there are more 3*s than 4* & 5*s (combined)coming out of high school.

 

[DAWG61]

(coming out of HS) combined.

It's probably one of those statistics that jump out at you, but when you examineit, it's not so surprising. I suspect there are more 3*s than 4* & 5*s (combined)coming out of high school.

I'm guessing there are twice as many 3*** as 4&5 combined and the 3*** has more incentive to work harder than the 4&5 so he eventually catches and passes by the initially higher rated guy. Obviously not always.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

i'm not sure why you are taking that angle against me. it's quite 17'ing clear that highly rated recruiting classes tend to lead to highly rated football teams. sure there are exceptions to everything, but the rule of thumb is that if you want to compete consistently on a national level (or the sec) you need to consistently finish in the top 20 in recruiting minimum.

we can go round and round whether bama and fla sign classes full of 4* and 5* because the recruiting services just want to pander to their fanbase or whether bama and fla sign classes full of 4* and 5* because they are a bigger/better program and have more choice in selecting the recruits of their choosing, which are usually the guys with dozens of big time offers and high ratings by scout/rivals/247/espn. either way the proof is in the pudding, bama and fla win regularly and win big regularly because they sign the best players. winning in CFB is 75% about talent, 25% everything else. i'm talking big picture winning, not "well appalachian st beat michigan a few years ago" individual game type winning. upsets happen. talent evaluators miss some guys or overrate some guys. but in the end the programs signing the best classes win more often than not and those signing the lesser classes have to catch lightning in a bottle before fading back and looking to catch lightning again.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

purely a numbers game. there are maybe 100 4* and 5* combined each year, but probably 300+ 3* guys each year.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

1. WVU throws it a bunch regardless of the situation. Maybe they threw slightly more because they were down early, but that's their m.o. as a team. Not to mention they closed the gap after being down big early.<div>
</div><div>2. We were never close against LSU. Sure the score "looked" close, but they controlled the game the entire time and were never in danger. Why? Because we can't throw. If we'd gotten down 21-0 early against them it would have ended around 49-0.</div><div>
</div><div>Dan's focus should be recruiting/developing our passing game. It's proven that our talent can't run the Tebow offense with success against top caliber defenses (example: Chris Relf has never led a touchdown drive against LSU or Alabama...ever). Why? We don't have Florida's talent or Tim Tebow for that matter. Against bad defenses it's fine, but only beating bad defenses will put our ceiling at about 4th in the West.</div>

yeah wvu throws a lot (well holgerson does), so therefore, they end up with more yardage. but it was a lot of garbage yardage. yardage moving wvu from inside their own 20 to midfield before they punted the ball. yardage frantically trying to come back down 20+ points while LSU played a soft zone. <div>
</div><div>sure LSU outplayed us and it wasn't a 'close' game, but when you are within a TD of a team, you stick with your gameplan and don't vary, because you always think "all we need is to break 1 big one" or that we might get a turnover/punt return for a score. but even if you are getting dominated, when it's a closer game according to the scoreboard, you don't throw your gameplan out the window.</div><div>
</div><div>yes, we gotta improve the passing game so that the LSU's and bama's level D will actually respect the pass and give us more running lanes. but we are to a point where at least normally we can move and score on a less than elite D. LSU and bama make a lot of teams look bad on offense, so i'm not ready to overhaul our offense because we couldn't move the ball the last 2 years on LSU and bama. wvu and oregon are very explosive offenses. they picked up a lot o garbage yards to fluff their numbers. but their D also didn't keep LSU from scoring, so they had to go for broke on offense. our D kept LSU from capitalizing with TDs.</div><div>
</div><div>yeah, i want dan to use timeouts and try to score, yeah he's not perfect, and yeah there's things i'd prefer to change, but to act like wvu's offense was playing well against LSU by just looking at the final yardage numbers is misleading.</div>

 

[Sutterkane]

How did Texas go 5-7 last year and lose to K-State, Baylor, and Iowa State? Did they have bad coaches?

How has Kentucky consistently made a bowl game over the last decade? Did they have really good coaches?

How did the Green Bay Packers win a Super Bowl with mostly 3 star players from college?

Recruiting has 2 tiers...you're either in the top 10 and getting mostly elites or you're in the second tier. I really don't think there's a hill of beans of difference between ranked 15th and being ranked 50th.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

texas: isolated exceptions to the rule. they happen. but over the long haul, texas isn't gonna be a 5-7 program very often if they continue to sign top 5 recruiting classes. what don't yall get about big picture v. small picture.

sure, kentucky has been a regular bowl team the last decade (really just since 2006, but whatever). 7-6 year after year and go the music city/liberty/independence/(insert C-list bowl here) bowls, but i don't think that's what people have in mind when discussing success. i mean, over the past decade, despite regularly going to bowls, they are still the 8th or 9th most successful program in the sec over that time. they haven't made a serious run at winning the east either. i mean, wtf is the compass bowl anyway?

as already noted, there are numerically more 3* than 4*/5*, therefore there are more 3* in the NFL than 4*/5*. however, consider the odds of the 4*/5* making it v. a 3*. i'd bet the percentages favor the 4*/5* over the 3*.

i do agree that there isn't much difference after a certain point in the recruiting rankings, usually around 15-20. but at some point even if you are ranking lower in recruiting, you have to sign some difference makers. the wards and the evans. these are guys we gotta land and supplement them with quality 3*, but we need a handful of 4*/5* guys to build around. we'll never sing consistent top 10 classes, but we can sign solid classes capped by a handful of 4*/5* prospects, but we gotta land those guys when they are out there and that's what we largely haven't been able to do.

 

[patdog]

Recruiting has 2 tiers...you're either in the top 10 and getting mostly elites or you're in the second tier. I really don't think there's a hill of beans of difference between ranked 15th and being ranked 50th.

Obviously, if you're signing 15 or more 4-5 star players, you've had a great recruiting class. But there's very little difference between signing 6 of those players and signing 3 of them because a lot more 4-5 star players turn out to be busts than most people realize. I also think we probably have a higher percentage of 4-5 star players turn out to be busts thanthe elite schools do, because we probably get a few thatdeep down realize they're really not good enough or don't want to work hard enough to start for an elite school, so they sign with a second tier school because they think it will be easier there.Second tier schools also wind uptaking some chances on 4-5 star players with character, grade, or other issues that an elite school can afford to just notoffer a scholarship to.