Stoops vs Joker

[TTU/UK fan]

Career highlights:
Joker: #10 South Carolina(9-5), Tennessee(5-7) to break the streak, #17 Kent State(11-3), losing last second to National Champs Auburn, at UofL(7-6)

Stoops: #25 Mizzou(5-7), South Carolina(7-6), at South Carolina (3-9)

Ugliest Games
Joker: WKU loss, Arkansas loss(4-8), Vandy blowout(9-4)

Stoops: WKU loss, EKU OT, USM loss, Vandy loss(4-8)

Combined Records
Joker: 13-24
Stoops: 12-25

In all I am not quite sure how Stoops is considered any better of a coach than Joker. Ecspecially considering how much better Stoops has recruited.

Also something to think about is how strong the East was in 2011-2012. Compared to how weak it has been the last 2 years.

Take this info how you would like.

 

[louisvillesux]

wont consider the info at all. due in large part to the conditions of the programs that they each inherited. you spent time looking up records, only to compare apples to ink pens.

 

[JBHolmesfan]

Stoops 2-10 record to start may as well be on Joker's record. He inherited UK in the best condition its ever been and ran it into the ground in a few short years. Stoops has done a great job getting the talent here. No one can deny that he's recruited at a level we've never had here before. He just hasn't produced with them yet. Next year is a massive one for Stoops. It'll be the last year for his first recruiting class to play. If he goes 4-8 then that shows what Stoops is.

I think Joker is a better game manager than Stoops. When he had the talent he didn't look as completely lost as Stoops does. He wasn't great by any means though. Stoops isn't as bad of a game manager as Joker was recruiter/talent evaluator. Stoops is the better coach and it's not even a question. I don't think he's going to be great here, but he's going to be given 2 more years. He better make them count.

 

[akaukswoosh]

Combined Records
Joker: 13-24
Stoops: 12-25

That's a lot of mediocrity.

 

[irishcat1965]

Career highlights:
Joker: #10 South Carolina(9-5), Tennessee(5-7) to break the streak, #17 Kent State(11-3), losing last second to National Champs Auburn, at UofL(7-6)

Stoops: #25 Mizzou(5-7), South Carolina(7-6), at South Carolina (3-9)

Ugliest Games
Joker: WKU loss, Arkansas loss(4-8), Vandy blowout(9-4)

Stoops: WKU loss, EKU OT, USM loss, Vandy loss(4-8)

Combined Records
Joker: 13-24
Stoops: 12-25

In all I am not quite sure how Stoops is considered any better of a coach than Joker. Ecspecially considering how much better Stoops has recruited.

Also something to think about is how strong the East was in 2011-2012. Compared to how weak it has been the last 2 years.

Take this info how you would like.

I am no fan of Stoops, but if you don't understand the difference, it would take too long to explain it.

 

[TTU/UK fan]

Dont shoot the messenger

Yes it is biased and cannot be taken too serious, but take a few things into account:

1. Joker worked with 2 and 3 stars, and a 4 star horrifying Morgan Newton after losing all the talent after 2010. Stoops has high 3's, 4's and even a 5 and continues flowing them in. His xurrent tem is all his doing.

2. Joker was in the midst of one of the best SEC East seasons in the last 8 years.

3. Joker wasnt getting millions in upgrades to show recruits, and didnt have the "it can only get better" thing going. People expected Brooks 2.0. He lost the fanbase year 2.

Brooks was just a very underrated and special coach. Joker is not. Stoops is not. Neither were/are the answer.

 

[tntuk]

Dont shoot the messenger

Yes it is biased and cannot be taken too serious, but take a few things into account:

1. Joker worked with 2 and 3 stars, and a 4 star horrifying Morgan Newton after losing all the talent after 2010. Stoops has high 3's, 4's and even a 5 and continues flowing them in. His xurrent tem is all his doing.

2. Joker was in the midst of one of the best SEC East seasons in the last 8 years.

3. Joker wasnt getting millions in upgrades to show recruits, and didnt have the "it can only get better" thing going. People expected Brooks 2.0. He lost the fanbase year 2.

Brooks was just a very underrated and special coach. Joker is not. Stoops is not. Neither were/are the answer.

Stoops first year of 2-10 is on Joker. You know that. He is 5-7 the last two years and we still have 11 games to play.

Also think if Brooks stuck around, the 2010 team (Jokers first team) would have probably won 7-9 games in regular season. We only won 6 and lost the bowl game with Joker.

Jokers program was on a downward trajectory when he left. Stoops has steadied the ship the last two seasons and his players haven't quit on him like they did Joker.

While the USM loss doesn't look good for the rest of this season, we do still have 11 games to play this year. Let's see what happens before we start comparing Stoops with Joker.

 

[NavyCat88]

I am no fan of Stoops, but if you don't understand the difference, it would take too long to explain it.

Agree....I've been as critical as anyone of CMS.....but Joker had a much better starting point than did Coach Stoops. Now if we get a couple more years of sub .500 W/L out of CMS....we can revisit the debate.

 

[TTU/UK fan]

Stoops first year of 2-10 is on Joker. You know that. He is 5-7 the last two years and we still have 11 games to play.

Also think if Brooks stuck around, the 2010 team (Jokers first team) would have probably won 7-9 games in regular season. We only won 6 and lost the bowl game with Joker.

Jokers program was on a downward trajectory when he left. Stoops has steadied the ship the last two seasons and his players haven't quit on him like they did Joker.

While the USM loss doesn't look good for the rest of this season, we do still have 11 games to play this year. Let's see what happens before we start comparing Stoops with Joker.

I just strongly believe last 2 years teams would maybe win 3 games in Joker's 2-10 years. I mean we beat 2 SEC teams with 2 combined SEC wins last year. And then 2 SEC teams with a combined 3 wins the year before that. I dont see the progress people speak of...

 

[tntuk]

I just strongly believe last 2 years teams would maybe win 3 games in Joker's 2-10 years. I mean we beat 2 SEC teams with 2 combined SEC wins last year. And then 2 SEC teams with a combined 3 wins the year before that. I dont see the progress people speak of...

Lets wait and see what happens. Regardless of this past Saturday, I think UK still has a great shot to win 4 SEC games this year. Vandy, USC, Mizzou and Miss St.

People are down on the team and understandably so, but those 4 teams looked really bad this past weekend. That's not to say our 2nd half wasn't. But we did display that we have an offense that has many weapons who can score in a hurry - that's a lot more than any of those 4 SEC teams can say after Week 1.

 

[NCukcat62]

I'm no longer a stoops fan but comparing the two is asinine. Joker was set up to succeed from brooks.

 

[Big John Stud]

wont consider the info at all. due in large part to the conditions of the programs that they each inherited. you spent time looking up records, only to compare apples to ink pens.

Yup, Joker inherited recruiting classes ranked dead last or 2nd to last in the SEC. But wait, at the end of the Brooks era MSU, Vandy, and UL were bad so we eeked out 6 wins so I guess he inherited some kind of dynasty. You guys are so simple.

 

[tntuk]

Yup, Joker inherited recruiting classes ranked dead last or 2nd to last in the SEC. But wait, at the end of the Brooks era MSU, Vandy, and UL were bad so we eeked out 6 wins so I guess he inherited some kind of dynasty. You guys are so simple.

Lol. You honestly think Stoops took over the program in the same shape Joker did?

UK went to 4 straight bowls when Joker took over. That's not a dynasty, but damn...Stoops took over a 2-10 program with zero talent.

The two situations are polar opposites.

 

[optimus-blue]

If stoops played a bad UofL team like brooks he would have back to back bowl games, just saying

 

[Bluetick2100]

Stoops has much better players and is still losing.

 

[Stenchymouse]

Combined Records
Joker: 13-24
Stoops: 12-25

That's a lot of mediocrity.

This is the problem with UK fans...

They've been brainwashed to believe that 12-25 is mediocre.

18-17 is mediocre.

12-25 is flat out terrible!!!

 

[Kooky Kats_anon]

Mitch should make one call. Call Rich Brooks and pick his brain on:

A) hiring Brooks as director of football operations
B) evaluation of staff and their preparations
C) if Stoops don't like it, leave (see ya)
D) have Brooks hand pick a coaching candidate with open checkbook.

This needs immediate fixing. Whoever the poor hoodwinked booster was who donated money for practice facility - may be a bit pissed at this point and I hope has some leverage on the situation--- much like when Cal was foisted on Meetch.

 

[Monroe Claxton]

One thing they have in common is they both became multi-millioners while failing miserably at their jobs

 

[BigBlueTuckian]

I also read that after 37 games, Bill Curry has a better record than Mark Stoops at UK. Think about that for a minute. Bill Curry...............the epitome of suck at UK.

 

[K_TIME]

This is the problem with UK fans...

They've been brainwashed to believe that 12-25 is mediocre.

18-17 is mediocre.

12-25 is flat out terrible!!!

:smiley:I laughed when I read those posts as well...mediocre is average...12-25 is way below average by both Joker/Stoops.

But to argue Joker's 2 win seasons to close out his UK era and what he handed Stoops is sort of goofy IMO. At least Stoops can recruit better (I'm not sure he can assemble a coaching staff):

- Boom/JoJo vs. Raymond Sanders/Josh Clemons
- Juice/Tavin Richardson/Jeff Badet vs. Demarco Robinson/Darryl Collins/LaRod King
- CJ Conrad vs. Ronnie Shields
- Drew Barker vs. Max Smith/Reece Phillip/Jalen Whitlow/Towles flamed out even though solidly recruited
- The entire secondary vs. Fred Tiller/Cody Quinn/Ashley Lowrey/Glen Faulkner
- I'd argue so far Stoops DL and OL recruiting haven't panned out better than Joker is my headscratcher so far.

To be fair..Joker was the worst coach in UK modern era (even worse that Bill Curry IMO). But his winnable teams all had their best squads in his years Vandy-James Franklin, UL - Charlie Strong, USC - Spurrier had not yet faded, Miss St - Dan Mullen...those are the winnable games for UK (Mizzou being added recently is a 5th game that is in UK's reach to win). Stoops gets an easier Vandy, USC has bottomed out and Mizzou is looking like they'll bottom out as well compared to the back-to-back SEC East champs.

 

[Kai Slater]

I appreciate Joker's more, relaxed, laid-back style. He never appeared to be rattled and seemed to be so chill out there on the sidelines....even during times of adversity !!! Low-stress at it's best. Contrast that to hot-head Stoops who loses his cool all the time.

 

[Stenchymouse]

I appreciate Joker's more, relaxed, laid-back style. He never appeared to be rattled and seemed to be so chill out there on the sidelines....even during times of adversity !!! Low-stress at it's best. Contrast that to hot-head Stoops who loses his cool all the time.

Joker was TOTALLY chilled out while Arkansas ran up and down the field like they we're playing against a peewee league team...

Joker was SO chilled out that he allowed the program the reach the level of a BAD OVC school without ever appearing to care.

 

[Kai Slater]

Joker was TOTALLY chilled out while Arkansas ran up and down the field like they we're playing against a peewee league team...

Joker was SO chilled out that he allowed the program the reach the level of a BAD OVC school without ever appearing to care.

Well, at least he won't have high blood pressure or other stress-induced health conditions, right?

 

[J. Shellacque]

What part of inheriting 3 NFL defensive starters do you people not remember? Stoops inherited 4 NFL players on the defensive side from Joker.....3 are starters in the NFL. He and Eliot won 2 games with 4 NFL players on the defensive side of the ball. You apologists need to find some facts.

 

[BlueRunner11]

Not sure Brooks record was that dissimilar to Joker or Stoops after year 3 and people want to bring him back.

Look I liked Brooks. Wish we had him now instead of what we do, but some of you guys need to raise the bar on expectations.

Brooks had a losing record for his career and indivudually everywhere he coached at, including UK. He had one great season in 1994 to win the Pac 10 with Oregon the rest as been mediocrity at best. He was brought to UK for UK to be average. Average. Middle of the road, safe, and just good enough for a low expectation football school that could pull a Music City Bowl here and there.

Thankful for what Rich did here, but we deserve better and no reason it can't be imo.

 

[katfanuno]

One can recruit, both are horrible at being a head coach. Kentucky football is like that town in Pennsylvania burning from the inside, now way(at least currently) to fix it.

 

[jpbky2]

The one thing I don't see mentioned is what do you do with players once they get to campus. Coach Brooks had a great coaching staff that could recognize talent, but more importantly develop that talent once it got here. The disconnect was that Joker didn't think those coaches could recruit higher ranked players and he fired them and brought in his own people that ended up being his demise. I have no doubts that Coach Stoops is bringing in better football players, but are those players any better now, than when they came onto campus?

 

[Big John Stud]

Lol. You honestly think Stoops took over the program in the same shape Joker did?

UK went to 4 straight bowls when Joker took over. That's not a dynasty, but damn...Stoops took over a 2-10 program with zero talent.

They both inherited programs set up to fail. Joker inherited Hartline, Cobb, Locke, and Matthews for 1 year. There was nothing behind them. He inherited a team with like 2 or 3 4 star players. Saying he inherited a team that went to 4 sytaight bowls is true but it doesnt tell the whole story and that isnt an indicator of the talent on that team. There is no question that Stoops had more talent in his 3 years, better support from fans, better support from the administration, and much better facilities than Joker had in his 3 and has done nothing with it.

Joker inherited a mess, did a poor job, and deserved to be fired. Mark Stoops inherited a mess, recruited well, but has been an atrocious on field coach and deserves to be fired if he doesn't turn it around in the last 11 games.

 

[Snarks]

They both inherited programs set up to fail. Joker inherited Hartline, Cobb, Locke, and Matthews for 1 year. There was nothing behind them. He inherited a team with like 2 or 3 4 star players. Saying he inherited a team that went to 4 sytaight bowls is true but it doesnt tell the whole story and that isnt an indicator of the talent on that team. There is no question that Stoops had more talent in his 3 years, better support from fans, better support from the administration, and much better facilities than Joker had in his 3 and has done nothing with it.

Joker inherited a mess, did a poor job, and deserved to be fired. Mark Stoops inherited a mess, recruited well, but has been an atrocious on field coach and deserves to be fired if he doesn't turn it around in the last 11 games.

Wasn't Joker the head recruiter? He inherited his own mess.

 

[irishcat1965]

Joker was an absolutely clueless buffoon. Just because Stoops is not succeeding doesn't make me want that loser back. Barnhart just shows he isn't qualified to hire a football coach.

 

[katfanuno]

Brainfart isn't qualified to hire any major sports coach, comparing stoops and joker is futile. Neither were or are currently successful. Records for both are terrible, joker created the dumpster fire for stoops and while recruiting is better coaching and player development is not.

 

[BlueBallz_rivals30790]

What part of inheriting 3 NFL defensive starters do you people not remember? Stoops inherited 4 NFL players on the defensive side from Joker.....3 are starters in the NFL. He and Eliot won 2 games with 4 NFL players on the defensive side of the ball. You apologists need to find some facts.

Za'Darious Smith was a Stoops recruit, JUCO out of Mississippi.

 

[bigbluewildcat84]

I don't think the quality of recruiting is better because of Stoops. Its because of his assistance being able to sell a hope for future success. Those recruits are promised coaching that will put them on par with the rest of the SEC. That promise has failed those recruits and current players.

How long does it take to fix the run defense.
I'm sure if someone asked you, "I'd give you a $100k+ to figure out how to strategize a run defense fix" you'd search high and low for a strategy that would work. Our coaches don't seem to be doing the home work to fix it. I know its not just strategy but also technique, and we can see from the USM game that we are lacking both.

 

[J. Shellacque]

Za'Darious Smith was a Stoops recruit, JUCO out of Mississippi.

Yeah, he was a juco, but Stoop recruit?

 

[BlueBallz_rivals30790]

Yeah, he was a juco, but Stoop recruit?

Yes, he's one the staff pulled in when they came here.

 

[Big John Stud]

Wasn't Joker the head recruiter? He inherited his own mess.

Joker was the recruiting coordinator and killed it until he took over as offensive coordinator in 2005. Do you even follow UK football?

 

[J. Shellacque]

Yes, he's one the staff pulled in when they came here.

Yahtzee.....

 

[Big John Stud]

Joker was an absolutely clueless buffoon. Just because Stoops is not succeeding doesn't make me want that loser back. Barnhart just shows he isn't qualified to hire a football coach.

Im pretty sure no one is wanting Joker back. Your comprehension skills are worse than Stoops coaching. You probably shouldn't be calling anyone a clueless buffoon.

 

[bigbluewildcat84]

According to 247 Stoops is only accredited with the recruitment of Hyde and Meadows. Like I said recruiting isn't better because of Stoops. Its his assistants that are bringing in the big fish.

 

[J. Shellacque]

Im pretty sure no one is wanting Joker back. Your comprehension skills are worse than Stoops coaching. You probably shouldn't be calling anyone a clueless buffoon.

Bravely spoken. Do you have any other insightful things to offer?