Sylvester Croom: A Career of Character
- Thread starter jramsufan
- Start date
despite having an indoor practice facility, stadium improvements/scoreboard, raise to 1.7 million, sold out bowl, no pressure to make changes for five years, etc.
I was wondering what the heck they were going to spell when Dr. Payne said Give me a "C"! I was like, a what?
is who was calling for Jamont Gordon to be benched? Does this dude really know what he's talking about?
To be honest, I ran into more people who wanted Croom's offensive staff to be fired more than they did with him. I really thought of we had just gotten rid of Woody and maybe a couple others, then our team would've been a force to reckon with. It's hard to have a defense play every single game knowing the offense wouldn't produce at all. I really hate to see the guy go, because he was a real good person, but you just can't deny the fact that he just wasn't getting the job done.
One thing I noticed...the dude that's writing the article, is basically defending what he wrote in every single comment. Dudes like that never will go back on what they said, no matter how asinine it may have been. I had to deal with someone like that, and it was a little above futile. I can undertand why he wrote it, but if it was just to commorate Croom, then he could have done so in a better way without calling out the entire university.
To be honest, I ran into more people who wanted Croom's offensive staff to be fired more than they did with him. I really thought of we had just gotten rid of Woody and maybe a couple others, then our team would've been a force to reckon with. It's hard to have a defense play every single game knowing the offense wouldn't produce at all. I really hate to see the guy go, because he was a real good person, but you just can't deny the fact that he just wasn't getting the job done.
One thing I noticed...the dude that's writing the article, is basically defending what he wrote in every single comment. Dudes like that never will go back on what they said, no matter how asinine it may have been. I had to deal with someone like that, and it was a little above futile. I can undertand why he wrote it, but if it was just to commorate Croom, then he could have done so in a better way without calling out the entire university.
Warning: Long Post
To start out, Croom didn't go out with character. Mr. Greg Byrne is the one who had character here. He let Croom gracefully resign instead of firing him. That, my friends is character. This jackass author doesn't know the difference between character and stubbornness. Croom went out due to stubbornness.
In almost every news article written about Croom resigning, they quote him talking about how he had turned the program around and laid the foundation for the next coach. REALLY? Maybe I'm blind and don't see it. What is the foundation, coach?
- The horrendous record you put up over the last 5 years (on top of the Kang's last 3) that makes us look like a lower tier WAC school?
- The complete and utter lack of offense or impressive offensive schemes. You either didn't know the WCO, or didn't know how to teach it. We failed executing it, but you said we are going to run it anyway.
- A complete stubbornness to changing coordinators unless they left on their own (knowing the ship was sinking). Remember how Joe Lee Dunn had the most feared Defense in the nation until everybody figured out how to beat it. Then what happened? Jackie fired him and Sparky after two 3 win seasons.
- Being content with 25 and 30 yard punts. Surely we had a Brazilian on campus who new how to kick a ball.
- Burning a red shirt mid way through a losing season and then using him sparingly?
Need I go on? Like him or not, Jackie Wayne won games and had built our program up to be a feared opponent (especially at home) until he became more concerned about taking down the NCAA's investigation wing, and less concerned about winning games. Jackie and Polk must have been lunch buddies. Jackie would have never put up with this special teams b.s. that is Carlson and McAdams.
So what is it coach? What is the foundation that you laid? Getting rid of Jackie's thugs? We're playing in the SEC, coach. Look what Vandy's doctor and lawyer teams have done over the past 20 years. How many bowl games did they go to? Oh right. They barely went this year. If you want to be Mr. Character, go coach at a Division III liberal arts college. They ain't going to pay you 1.7 million a year, but you can do things "the right way" and not have to worry about bailing your players out of the pokey.
Actually, I was really impressed when I heard that you had the whole team in church on Sunday mornings. I thought you were setting the right example, like a Tony Dungy type of coach. I lost that respect when you got caught dropping the F-bomb on national TV. Way to lead by example, coach.
LSU - Here's an example of a coach "laying a foundation". Ask Les Miles if Saban laid a good foundation.
Alabama - Here's an example of a coach who "did it the right way" and is winning with a relatively young team. He took over a program going downhill, worked his magic for a year, and is producing excellent results.
And Coach, you had nothing to do with last year's bowl game. We were 3 plays away from being 4-8. The defensive stop at Auburn on 4th and goal. The Alabama pick 6. Coach O's incompetence/Pegues's punt return for TD. I give you no credit for those 3 win's and the bowl win. Those wins are the result of players making good decisions to overcome your poor decisions.
The bottom line is it doesn't take 5 years to lay a foundation for a winning program. And if you claim to have laid the foundation, tell us SPECIFICALLY what it is. Do we have a top 10 recruiting class on the bench, another top 10 class redshirted and another top 10 coming in? No. The sad thing is I think we are back at square 1, maybe even worse than where Jackie left us. We very well may not win 6 next year. If we make a good hire and they pull off 8 to 9 wins, some jack *** in the media and your fluffer Gene will credit you for "laying the foundation".
All this talk about character makes me sick. I think Croom was a good man with good intentions. But like most bosses, he was in way over his head and used the "building character" and "the right way" as a means of diverting attention from his complete incompetence. Thanks for reading through the b.s. Mr. Byrne. Now go spend some of that Seal and ESPN money and get us a Saban caliber coach.
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To start out, Croom didn't go out with character. Mr. Greg Byrne is the one who had character here. He let Croom gracefully resign instead of firing him. That, my friends is character. This jackass author doesn't know the difference between character and stubbornness. Croom went out due to stubbornness.
In almost every news article written about Croom resigning, they quote him talking about how he had turned the program around and laid the foundation for the next coach. REALLY? Maybe I'm blind and don't see it. What is the foundation, coach?
- The horrendous record you put up over the last 5 years (on top of the Kang's last 3) that makes us look like a lower tier WAC school?
- The complete and utter lack of offense or impressive offensive schemes. You either didn't know the WCO, or didn't know how to teach it. We failed executing it, but you said we are going to run it anyway.
- A complete stubbornness to changing coordinators unless they left on their own (knowing the ship was sinking). Remember how Joe Lee Dunn had the most feared Defense in the nation until everybody figured out how to beat it. Then what happened? Jackie fired him and Sparky after two 3 win seasons.
- Being content with 25 and 30 yard punts. Surely we had a Brazilian on campus who new how to kick a ball.
- Burning a red shirt mid way through a losing season and then using him sparingly?
Need I go on? Like him or not, Jackie Wayne won games and had built our program up to be a feared opponent (especially at home) until he became more concerned about taking down the NCAA's investigation wing, and less concerned about winning games. Jackie and Polk must have been lunch buddies. Jackie would have never put up with this special teams b.s. that is Carlson and McAdams.
So what is it coach? What is the foundation that you laid? Getting rid of Jackie's thugs? We're playing in the SEC, coach. Look what Vandy's doctor and lawyer teams have done over the past 20 years. How many bowl games did they go to? Oh right. They barely went this year. If you want to be Mr. Character, go coach at a Division III liberal arts college. They ain't going to pay you 1.7 million a year, but you can do things "the right way" and not have to worry about bailing your players out of the pokey.
Actually, I was really impressed when I heard that you had the whole team in church on Sunday mornings. I thought you were setting the right example, like a Tony Dungy type of coach. I lost that respect when you got caught dropping the F-bomb on national TV. Way to lead by example, coach.
LSU - Here's an example of a coach "laying a foundation". Ask Les Miles if Saban laid a good foundation.
Alabama - Here's an example of a coach who "did it the right way" and is winning with a relatively young team. He took over a program going downhill, worked his magic for a year, and is producing excellent results.
And Coach, you had nothing to do with last year's bowl game. We were 3 plays away from being 4-8. The defensive stop at Auburn on 4th and goal. The Alabama pick 6. Coach O's incompetence/Pegues's punt return for TD. I give you no credit for those 3 win's and the bowl win. Those wins are the result of players making good decisions to overcome your poor decisions.
The bottom line is it doesn't take 5 years to lay a foundation for a winning program. And if you claim to have laid the foundation, tell us SPECIFICALLY what it is. Do we have a top 10 recruiting class on the bench, another top 10 class redshirted and another top 10 coming in? No. The sad thing is I think we are back at square 1, maybe even worse than where Jackie left us. We very well may not win 6 next year. If we make a good hire and they pull off 8 to 9 wins, some jack *** in the media and your fluffer Gene will credit you for "laying the foundation".
All this talk about character makes me sick. I think Croom was a good man with good intentions. But like most bosses, he was in way over his head and used the "building character" and "the right way" as a means of diverting attention from his complete incompetence. Thanks for reading through the b.s. Mr. Byrne. Now go spend some of that Seal and ESPN money and get us a Saban caliber coach.
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I'm not going to sit here and defend Croom by saying he should have stayed and we should have given him more time, but the essence of your argument just makes me extremely disappointed in the type of fans we have. You are willing to be complacent with winning records if it means having alot of players go to jail or not have anyone that they can look towards as a mentor?
You say that you were impressed with him when he got his team going to church, but when you heard him say the "f-bomb" on national tv? If I'm not mistaken, I think I know the scene you're talking about, and you clearly had to read his lips for that, but regardless, he said it, or was perceived to have said it. But you still lost all respect for him due to that? And yet you clearly have respect for Saban, who obiously doesn't care who hears what he says on a radio broadcast which, ironically, he was speaking on the topic of playing our school that week. The comments he made came from the heart, but you still have respect for him. Ok...
And equally, a majority of our games were a few plays away from us going 4 - 8 to at best 8 - 4 with close losses from La Tech, Auburn, LSU, and Kentucky. That's just how football is. A play or two can change the entire outcome of a game. The difference between this year and last year is obviously, a majority of those plays fell into our favor.
Also, last I checked, I would think that it would take a good amount of time for a program that was put on athletic probation from recruiting to be able to rebuild and have full out success. Which, last I recalled was from a coach who you seem to have full respect for. But I guess it's ok since he atleast finished out even.
I don't know what happened to our soceity when people are willing to sacrafice character and morals just for a couple of wins. Something that can only be appreciated for 1 solitary year. That just can't compete with something that could possibly change a persons life and make them all the better for the rest of their life, not just 1 year.
Like I said, he wasn't able to get the job done, so it makes sense for him not to be here any more, but to say that it's better to have thugs instead of character.... That just appauls me. I commend Croom for atleast trying to do something that not many coaches really wanted to venture in, mainly because the program was in such shambles that it wouldn't be able to recover right out front, but regardless it's time to move on. When it's all said and done, would it really make you that much happy that our team were winners but it comprimised their character more than anything, and we had people that fans could not generate any kind of respect for them outside of the football field? If that's really the type of program you really want, then I atleast hope I don't see it happen in my tenure here.
You say that you were impressed with him when he got his team going to church, but when you heard him say the "f-bomb" on national tv? If I'm not mistaken, I think I know the scene you're talking about, and you clearly had to read his lips for that, but regardless, he said it, or was perceived to have said it. But you still lost all respect for him due to that? And yet you clearly have respect for Saban, who obiously doesn't care who hears what he says on a radio broadcast which, ironically, he was speaking on the topic of playing our school that week. The comments he made came from the heart, but you still have respect for him. Ok...
And equally, a majority of our games were a few plays away from us going 4 - 8 to at best 8 - 4 with close losses from La Tech, Auburn, LSU, and Kentucky. That's just how football is. A play or two can change the entire outcome of a game. The difference between this year and last year is obviously, a majority of those plays fell into our favor.
Also, last I checked, I would think that it would take a good amount of time for a program that was put on athletic probation from recruiting to be able to rebuild and have full out success. Which, last I recalled was from a coach who you seem to have full respect for. But I guess it's ok since he atleast finished out even.
I don't know what happened to our soceity when people are willing to sacrafice character and morals just for a couple of wins. Something that can only be appreciated for 1 solitary year. That just can't compete with something that could possibly change a persons life and make them all the better for the rest of their life, not just 1 year.
Like I said, he wasn't able to get the job done, so it makes sense for him not to be here any more, but to say that it's better to have thugs instead of character.... That just appauls me. I commend Croom for atleast trying to do something that not many coaches really wanted to venture in, mainly because the program was in such shambles that it wouldn't be able to recover right out front, but regardless it's time to move on. When it's all said and done, would it really make you that much happy that our team were winners but it comprimised their character more than anything, and we had people that fans could not generate any kind of respect for them outside of the football field? If that's really the type of program you really want, then I atleast hope I don't see it happen in my tenure here.
and that's being sheepish, it will probably be at least three, to build an o-line that's SEC caliber. That is going to KILL us, no matter what offense we run. If I was the new coach, I would go get three JUCO o-linemen just out of necessity.
The thing about Croom is we are better in some areas, and in others we are worse. After breaking it down, I think we are in worse shape than when he took over.
The thing about Croom is we are better in some areas, and in others we are worse. After breaking it down, I think we are in worse shape than when he took over.
then everyone can then agree that Crooms laid a good foundation. If he loses 7 or 8, then it will show that Crooms was the incompetent
boob that he really is. Only time will tell I guess
boob that he really is. Only time will tell I guess
it will show how incomeptent Croom was, although you just look at his decisions this year, and it's pretty clear that he was incompetent.
If we only win 4 or so, it likely will be because of our lack of offense.
I fully expect a coach to come in and win at least six next year. Our last staff won four with three near misses.
If we only win 4 or so, it likely will be because of our lack of offense.
I fully expect a coach to come in and win at least six next year. Our last staff won four with three near misses.
This site is serious about sports. The man made a helluva lot of money for a job he was very ill-prepared to do. His job is to win games and help his recruits get to the next level.
Was his job to help them graduate? No, thats what academic counselors are for.
Was his job to keep them from breaking the law? No, thats what the our state set up laws for and police to enforce them
Was his job to build their bodies? No, thats the strength coach's job
He didnt do what the job required he do- win games.
Was his job to help them graduate? No, thats what academic counselors are for.
Was his job to keep them from breaking the law? No, thats what the our state set up laws for and police to enforce them
Was his job to build their bodies? No, thats the strength coach's job
He didnt do what the job required he do- win games.
I stated it clearly, in the beginning and the end...that since he didn't get the job done, he wasn't fit for the job.
But do you honestly think...That EVERY single people/groups that you mentioned honestly cares about those athletes well being after they graduate/leave campus? Hell no. Besides, the coach sees them more than any of those people. And I'm sorry...but the law enforcement to teach them character? Get the hell out of here... We live in a society where a majority of the people are afraid of the group that are *supposedly* here for our protection and betterment. Winning isn't everything. Sure it's nice, but sometimes it takes just one person to make a difference.
Besides....wtf is Jean's page? I'm new here so alot of the stuff I've been seeing here lately has been going over my head.
But do you honestly think...That EVERY single people/groups that you mentioned honestly cares about those athletes well being after they graduate/leave campus? Hell no. Besides, the coach sees them more than any of those people. And I'm sorry...but the law enforcement to teach them character? Get the hell out of here... We live in a society where a majority of the people are afraid of the group that are *supposedly* here for our protection and betterment. Winning isn't everything. Sure it's nice, but sometimes it takes just one person to make a difference.
Besides....wtf is Jean's page? I'm new here so alot of the stuff I've been seeing here lately has been going over my head.
<div></div><img alt="image">because you're probably in the "We'll never have a good team because we're Mississippi State" group.
I think you misunderstood the point. I would love to have a group of guys playing that never get into trouble. The fact is, as long as we're in the SEC and WANT to compete at the highest level, we're going to have to recruit kids who are cocky. I would venture to say most sought after recruits are this way thanks to high school nonsense. They are the best players in their school and get treated like celebrities, so they come to college thinking they can act how they want. Others are just thugs because they think its cool to act that way. Doesn't mean that they have to act that way when they get here, but what incentive do they have to act right when they don't see a reason to stay on the straight and narrow. The prospect of national exposure and a shot at the NFL is what they're after. We're going to have to put W's up to keep them in line and focused on the future. Even Croom couldn't keep them out of trouble. I do respect him for trying.
I think its very likely that Croom didn't run the recruiting show the way Jackie did. I never worried about being on probation for recruiting violations under Croom. I respect that and I think we won't have to worry about that again now that Superman Greg is running the show.
I didn't say I "heard him" drop the f-bomb. I said he got caught. And yes, you had to read his lips, but the announcers are the ones who showed the close up and commented on it. Very unprofessional of the network crew to show it, but more unprofessional of him. I never said I had respect for Saban, the person. I think he's a jackass, but clearly a good coach. I don't care if opposing schools like our coach. What matters is if the players want to come play for him.
Yes, a play or two can change the outcome of the game. Its football. But look at the moronic decisions (i.e. clock management) that kept us from winning games. Its a pattern. The problem is we gave him a pass on those fluke game changers and signed up for another 4 years with a raise as if he was the reason we went bowling.
I respect Jackie's special teams coaching ability. He's a crook, no doubt. But he is arguably one of the best special teams minds in the history of college football, IMHO.
You're stupid for insinuating that I'd be complacent with half the team in jail if we got a BCS bid. No one wants a team full of thugs, but we want to win. Otherwise, we wouldn't be wasting out time on message boards bitching about this stuff. We want a coach who can win and keep the team in line. Croom couldn't handle both.
I think you misunderstood the point. I would love to have a group of guys playing that never get into trouble. The fact is, as long as we're in the SEC and WANT to compete at the highest level, we're going to have to recruit kids who are cocky. I would venture to say most sought after recruits are this way thanks to high school nonsense. They are the best players in their school and get treated like celebrities, so they come to college thinking they can act how they want. Others are just thugs because they think its cool to act that way. Doesn't mean that they have to act that way when they get here, but what incentive do they have to act right when they don't see a reason to stay on the straight and narrow. The prospect of national exposure and a shot at the NFL is what they're after. We're going to have to put W's up to keep them in line and focused on the future. Even Croom couldn't keep them out of trouble. I do respect him for trying.
I think its very likely that Croom didn't run the recruiting show the way Jackie did. I never worried about being on probation for recruiting violations under Croom. I respect that and I think we won't have to worry about that again now that Superman Greg is running the show.
I didn't say I "heard him" drop the f-bomb. I said he got caught. And yes, you had to read his lips, but the announcers are the ones who showed the close up and commented on it. Very unprofessional of the network crew to show it, but more unprofessional of him. I never said I had respect for Saban, the person. I think he's a jackass, but clearly a good coach. I don't care if opposing schools like our coach. What matters is if the players want to come play for him.
Yes, a play or two can change the outcome of the game. Its football. But look at the moronic decisions (i.e. clock management) that kept us from winning games. Its a pattern. The problem is we gave him a pass on those fluke game changers and signed up for another 4 years with a raise as if he was the reason we went bowling.
I respect Jackie's special teams coaching ability. He's a crook, no doubt. But he is arguably one of the best special teams minds in the history of college football, IMHO.
You're stupid for insinuating that I'd be complacent with half the team in jail if we got a BCS bid. No one wants a team full of thugs, but we want to win. Otherwise, we wouldn't be wasting out time on message boards bitching about this stuff. We want a coach who can win and keep the team in line. Croom couldn't handle both.
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you'll be much happier there. they have a kool-aid table set up by the door when you walk in and a nice Henig wooly-fur coat to keep you warm. make sure to ask for the trench length, though, to keep your legs warm, as jorts are required attire.
ask MRob for a guided tour of the grounds. he'll give you a good explanation of how even though the season is over, its possible that we could still win the west.
you'll be much happier there. they have a kool-aid table set up by the door when you walk in and a nice Henig wooly-fur coat to keep you warm. make sure to ask for the trench length, though, to keep your legs warm, as jorts are required attire.
ask MRob for a guided tour of the grounds. he'll give you a good explanation of how even though the season is over, its possible that we could still win the west.
When Croom became the new Sheriff in town, why did he almost immediately run off 27 or so of Jackie's players? He put a lot of talent down the road. They may have been thuggish, but wouldn't you think that they needed more of Croom's fatherly guidance than those "character" players he recruited? If he wanted to really make a difference in young men's lives, he could have started with them. I will say some of them probably needed to go, but some might have been spared the axe if a little more patience were applied with his "discipline". I had hoped Croom could be successful right up to the Egg Bowl, but I knew his pride and stubbornness would cost him in the end. That is something that has bothered me for some time, sorry for the rant.
If you're someone on the outside looking in reading your post, then I don't think it's stupid of me to perceive what you're saying in the way that I did. You sounded foolish in your claims and making it appear that you would be much happier with us losing morals for a few wins. And I'll let you know buddy, if I really think that we should settle for any coach that wants to give us a chance just because of who we once were and currently are, then I would have just said it. I would've shot down all the Peterson, Patterson, Kelly... etc, etc rumors that we had a chance of getting them. I want to win as much as the next guy. But I don't want to lose site at what's most important ya know?
Regardless, Croom's gone. He's a good man, and regardless I respect him for what he tried to do. But your second post, ok I can sympathize with it more, and I'll give you kudos on that cause that's how I feel on the situation(s) as well. So I'll actually go on record, and apologize if I did take anything that you said the wrong way and may have said anything that was offensive. But that's the way I took it. So whatever... my fault for jumping the gun a bit.
Regardless, Croom's gone. He's a good man, and regardless I respect him for what he tried to do. But your second post, ok I can sympathize with it more, and I'll give you kudos on that cause that's how I feel on the situation(s) as well. So I'll actually go on record, and apologize if I did take anything that you said the wrong way and may have said anything that was offensive. But that's the way I took it. So whatever... my fault for jumping the gun a bit.
Let's talk in PURELY hypotheticals:
Ok...imagine that MSU won the national championship in football last year. In February, a recruit basically signs a letter of intent in prison. In March, after the national championship win and after signing day 8 or 9 players get arrested at a club for assaulting an undercover police officer. One player is kicked off the team because he allegedly was selling drugs. 3 players get arrested for a drive by shooting...etc. You get the picture? I wouldn't care if we were winning. I wouldn't care if we were losing either. But the fact is, all of this happened under your moral savior, Croom.
GET THIS THROUGH YOUR SKULL! Croom is not a man of character nor did he change the character of our team. Plus, it took a miraculous season to get his win total over his players' arrest total.
If we won the national championship with a bunch of Powes who couldn't read, with a bunch of Vick-like "thugs", and a quarterback who impregnated my wife, my mother, my 2 sisters, and my dog, I wouldn't care. Not only would I not care but I would be booking as many flights as possible to Mississippi to perform fellatio on our current head coach (even if he was a Scientologist and only believed in silent births).
Ok...imagine that MSU won the national championship in football last year. In February, a recruit basically signs a letter of intent in prison. In March, after the national championship win and after signing day 8 or 9 players get arrested at a club for assaulting an undercover police officer. One player is kicked off the team because he allegedly was selling drugs. 3 players get arrested for a drive by shooting...etc. You get the picture? I wouldn't care if we were winning. I wouldn't care if we were losing either. But the fact is, all of this happened under your moral savior, Croom.
GET THIS THROUGH YOUR SKULL! Croom is not a man of character nor did he change the character of our team. Plus, it took a miraculous season to get his win total over his players' arrest total.
If we won the national championship with a bunch of Powes who couldn't read, with a bunch of Vick-like "thugs", and a quarterback who impregnated my wife, my mother, my 2 sisters, and my dog, I wouldn't care. Not only would I not care but I would be booking as many flights as possible to Mississippi to perform fellatio on our current head coach (even if he was a Scientologist and only believed in silent births).
welcome to the sixpack. everyone disagrees with each other and calls each other names you can't repeat in mixed company, but at the end of the day, most would probably sit down and share a beer with each other. i bet C34 and Costanza might even be friends. we're here for the betterment of our program. we hate losing. we hate stupid decisions. and we hate mediocrity.
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Yea, I'm not too happy on how our production has been of late. I don't really care what people really say but I still like and respect Croom from what I've seen of him. Just, honestly, not one of the best calls that I've seen from a coach. And yea, who knows, we'd probably be cool. Even the best of friends have things they can't quite agree on. Although you don't have to get me a beer, I'm cool wit some water lol.
And rugb... you need some help if that's what you seriously believe. I'm not going to get into it any more outside of that.
And rugb... you need some help if that's what you seriously believe. I'm not going to get into it any more outside of that.
compete for a winning record. Remember, this is State where one will never show up on campus, one will turn out to be a lazy SOB and never leave the bench, two will play but will be overrated, one will actually perform well enough to start but will break his ankle in a freak accident while standing in line at the cafeteria and the last one will actually earn All-SEC his junior year but be fat and out of shape for his senior year.
I read somewhere that our starting 5 linemen were 2 freshmen, 2 sophmores, and a jr. Now you can't teach size, and if they weren't D1-caliber players to begin with then next year they're just going to be more experience non-D1-caliber-players. But they can't really be worse, and maybe Templeton Hardy will be as good as we desperately need him to be.
and is a good mentor/ fine Christian man BUT has no idea how to manage a company and is losing money? Or would you rather have an ******* that makes you tons of money because the stock you bought at $4 a share goes up to $40?
Would you like a fine, honest, Christian lawyer who treats you like gold but doesn't knows **** about the rules of evidence? Or do you want a double-speak, jerk who can convince any jury that the 250 lb man was acting in self-defense when he assaulted Grandma Smith and broke her hip?
What you are telling me, is that you prefer character/honesty (or at least the appearance of these traits) over performance/job success. You are the one that needs help.
You know what? If I asked you who was a better President, Clinton or W, I would be willing to bet you would answer W. He didn't sleep around, right, so automatically he's better?
Would you like a fine, honest, Christian lawyer who treats you like gold but doesn't knows **** about the rules of evidence? Or do you want a double-speak, jerk who can convince any jury that the 250 lb man was acting in self-defense when he assaulted Grandma Smith and broke her hip?
What you are telling me, is that you prefer character/honesty (or at least the appearance of these traits) over performance/job success. You are the one that needs help.
You know what? If I asked you who was a better President, Clinton or W, I would be willing to bet you would answer W. He didn't sleep around, right, so automatically he's better?
Don't forget... Dubya was a coke addict back in the day. So you're not giving me too much to work with there. And don't get me started and the oil fiasco.
And honestly...all of what you mentioned to me, I couldn't really accept either of the people in any of their fields. I'd have more respect for the first people you mentioned first for their personality, and respect for the latter(s) for being good in their craft, but from the sound of it, you make it seem like you can't have a person who is qualified and a good person. That's what I want to change. We need more Tony Dungy caliber coaches. His players have the utmost respect for him, and before this season, they played with a tenacity that not many teams could match. And I remember one of the players (don't remember who) saying that they're afraid of losing mainly because they don't want to disappoint Dungy.
I can't stand seeing winning programs with no type of morality, or coaches who don't even care about values. Only thing it's doing is sending a negative message to the public and not making our future any brighter.
And honestly...all of what you mentioned to me, I couldn't really accept either of the people in any of their fields. I'd have more respect for the first people you mentioned first for their personality, and respect for the latter(s) for being good in their craft, but from the sound of it, you make it seem like you can't have a person who is qualified and a good person. That's what I want to change. We need more Tony Dungy caliber coaches. His players have the utmost respect for him, and before this season, they played with a tenacity that not many teams could match. And I remember one of the players (don't remember who) saying that they're afraid of losing mainly because they don't want to disappoint Dungy.
I can't stand seeing winning programs with no type of morality, or coaches who don't even care about values. Only thing it's doing is sending a negative message to the public and not making our future any brighter.
You would rather have a losing coach with values than a winning coach with none. Baaaaa!
I never said you couldn't have both winning and character (or the appearance of character). But what's more important in a head football coach? Winning or training young men to be good men?
Your answer, like every other sheep, is the wrong one.
I never said you couldn't have both winning and character (or the appearance of character). But what's more important in a head football coach? Winning or training young men to be good men?
Your answer, like every other sheep, is the wrong one.
If I was a bit more naive you probably would've got under my skin by now but whatever. I believe in ideals and morals. I believe in make the right choice that will have the most peoples interest benefiting. Croom wasn't the right decision but I won't sit here and say he was one of the worst ones that we could've made. If you don't like my morals, w/e... that's your beef. I ain't gonna try to change yours, but I won't agree with em.
the biggest bunch of bull from this staff has been the Character Myth. it is untrue, unfounded, and ridiculous to believe. croom and the media said it so much that a lot of people just simply believed it. it's sort of like saying "change" over and over and over again.
show me where croom's players were arrested less than jackie's. show me where his players have become "better citizens" because of croom. show me where they are now men instead of boys. the problem is you can't do it. the only one that is measurable is the arrest record and if you look closely you will see that the arrest record isn't one of croom's strong points.
the most measurable thing is wins. like it or not. saying that the program is built with character is an easy thing for a coach to do because no one can really tell if it is true. saying that it is a winning program is much harder.
lastly, coaches are hired to win. period. but through teaching players how to win, pushing them to work hard, taking no **** from anyone, and being a hard nosed mother17er some will build character and others will not.
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show me where croom's players were arrested less than jackie's. show me where his players have become "better citizens" because of croom. show me where they are now men instead of boys. the problem is you can't do it. the only one that is measurable is the arrest record and if you look closely you will see that the arrest record isn't one of croom's strong points.
the most measurable thing is wins. like it or not. saying that the program is built with character is an easy thing for a coach to do because no one can really tell if it is true. saying that it is a winning program is much harder.
lastly, coaches are hired to win. period. but through teaching players how to win, pushing them to work hard, taking no **** from anyone, and being a hard nosed mother17er some will build character and others will not.
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I'm not defending Croom at all. Why can't you get that through your heads? I'm just saying what I want to see in a coach, and not have someone completely through that away just for a few wins. The wins can come if a good foundation is built. No where did I say that he laid it or that the system is better with him. Do I need to spell that out any clearer?