Teacher Sick Out

[mashburned]

Actually, those states are doing pretty well. Connecticut, New Hampshire, and Vermont are all at or near the top in per pupil spending, as well as at or near the top in student performance on standardized testing.

Is that consistent with the rest of the top spenders?

DC and New York (shocker...) spend a crap ton, and perform horribly.

...this is all assuming that "standardized tests" mean anything at all.

Seems most states are generally very similar. Within "10 points" of each other....whatever that means.

But to even try to compare different states like this is stupid. I don't see any evidence spending more gets you more. There are way too many variables in this stuff.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Is that consistent with the rest of the top spenders?

DC and New York (shocker...) spend a crap ton, and perform horribly.

...this is all assuming that "standardized tests" mean anything at all.

Seems most states are generally very similar. Within "10 points" of each other....whatever that means.

But to even try to compare different states like this is stupid. I don't see any evidence spending more gets you more. There are way too many variables in this stuff.

There's also a great website, and subsequent articles, that talk about the differences in funding from White majority schools and non-white majority schools. Believe it or not, a lot of these schools exist and are defined by a school being 75% or greater of white or non-white students.

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/26/696794821/why-white-school-districts-have-so-much-more-money

And the most interesting (or not interesting if you pay attention) part:

EdBuild singles out 21 states — including California, New Jersey and New York — in which mostly white districts get more funding than districts composed primarily of students of color.

Interesting, none the less. EdBuild.org has more info on it.

 

[bushrod1965]

Is that consistent with the rest of the top spenders?

DC and New York (shocker...) spend a crap ton, and perform horribly.

...this is all assuming that "standardized tests" mean anything at all.

Seems most states are generally very similar. Within "10 points" of each other....whatever that means.

But to even try to compare different states like this is stupid. I don't see any evidence spending more gets you more. There are way too many variables in this stuff.

I agree completely that standardized tests are a poor indicator of educational success, as well as there are too many factors to say money alone fixes anything. IMO, one of the most determining factors for school and student success is poverty. Most of those northeast states with high per pupil spending are also low poverty rate states having households with more educated caregivers. The same dollars spent in Kentucky wouldn’t have the same result because of those two factors.

 

[mashburned]

Agree

 

[Ukbrassowtipin]

Kinda OT but teachers and their advocates never will ***** and call out their board or central offices. Yet, those staffs keep growing and growing and so do their salaries. Want to start fixing education start cutting the admins

 

[Free_Salato_Blue]

Should you really have to pay school tax if you don't have kids?

 

[cat_in_the_hat]

The problem is that it takes money away from public education. And what you call "a bunch of public school kids..." will almost without question be only the best athletes and best students that will actually benefit. The net result is that you end up with worse public schools because you skim off their best students leaving them all the problem kids. Now, agree that the public schools get to pick the kids that take those private school spots and they (public school teachers) will gladly jump on board... or tax credits for people that donate to their public schools?
Bottom line is that you don't improve public education by making it easier for kids to go elsewhere. You don't improve public education by cutting its funding. The aim of the STATE should be an advocate for the PUBLIC education in the state.

I can't agree with the state of public schools being the overall guiding consideration when making education policy decisions. The focus of education policy should be how to give parents more choices with respect to their child's education. It's ridiculous that we force people to send their kid to a specific school just because of where they happen to live. If you want better schools, make them compete with each other for students, public and private. Schools that meets the needs of their kids will flourish and schools that don't will die. And they should die instead of staying open because they have a forced group of kids that have no choice but to go there. I have always thought that someone should introduce a bill that counties with more than one high school must allow anyone in the county to apply to any school of their choosing. When we have the attitude that public schools can't go out of business, all we are accomplishing is keeping a crappy school open and forcing a second rate education on the students who have no other options.

 

[Ron Mehico]

Though you may stumble on a good one, for the most part, college teachers are the worst teachers in all of education. A lot of them know their stuff, but couldn't teach a dog to bark.

College professors, at least in the sciences, aren’t paid to teach. They’re paid to write grants and get research funding and do research in their field. Teaching is a small part, and one that most find a complete pain in the *** and chore, of their job requirements.

 

[funKYcat75]

Sounds like JCTA and JCPS have a deal for no more sick outs. Three people from each school can go to Frankfort and protest or whatever. Pretty sure Fayette has something like that too, unofficially. Three loud voices and the rest teaching is better than five loud voices and everyone else at home.

 

[P19978]

Whatever . . . anyone who casts a vote on a single issue is simpleton. The wolves will take them to the cleaners on every other single issue and throw them one morsel (which the state legislature has little control over) to use them for their vote come election time on an issue the legislator has no real deep rooted feeling about. If someone is compelled to waste their vote on that issue and be screwed over on everything else, more power to them.

Murder... and your response is "whatever".

Whatever . . . anyone who casts a vote on a single issue is simpleton. The wolves will take them to the cleaners on every other single issue and throw them one morsel (which the state legislature has little control over) to use them for their vote come election time on an issue the legislator has no real deep rooted feeling about. If someone is compelled to waste their vote on that issue and be screwed over on everything else, more power to them.

Youre right: a single issue like murder shouldnt matter to anyone.

 

[RacerX.ksr]

I remember the teachers in Louisville going on strike around 1969 or so. It was a happy time for me. Then after it was over I found out that we had to give up some of our summer vacation to make up for it. Still kinda pissed about that.

 

[thabigbluenation]

Here's a thought...parents who give a **** and are involved in their kid's education usually have kids who do much better in school. Teachers can only do so much. You can throw all the tax money you want at a school, if the parents don't care, neither do the kids. Just a hunch, private schools outperform their public counterparts because parents that fork out a ton of money are going to be more involved in getting a return on that investment. Public schools have become daycare centers. Teachers aren't the problem. Parents are the problem.

Liberals that believe that "free college for anyone" are beyond idiotic. my 2cents.

 

[Xception]

If the government had been fiscally responsible they would be able to finance their promises and most of the turmoil wouldn’t be happening, now they have to renege.

 

[BankerCat12]

This is such a BS take. What politics have teachers brought into the classroom? My mother was a teacher, my wife is a teacher and my daughter is a teacher...my sister-in-law is a teacher, about half of my nieces are teachers... needless to say I'm around a lot of teachers and 99% of them are about as apolitical as one can get. And of those that are political...they are pretty evenly split between left and right. It's amazing that we could live in such a red state with all the left-wing-pinko-commie teachers[eyeroll]

And I take it that you're not a mathematical genius...of course there are below average teachers. Unless all teachers are the same...average then anyone with a 3rd grade understanding of math would tell you that regardless of the set, some have to be below the line.

What we know is that for the most part bad teachers (as opposed to below average) don't last. 50% of new teachers don't last 5 years. It isn't an easy job and if you're not good at it, it will eat you alive. I suggest you sign up to be a substitute in your local school district. Chances are the kids there will chew you up and spit you out. We had a family friend who used to make similar comments to what you have made. My wife challenged them to sign up to substitute...after 3 days they had enough. Strangely they also stopped bitching about teachers.

Most school districts are begging for teachers and larger districts like JCPS will have 100+ open positions go unfilled.

When did you start your teaching career?

 

[WayneDougan_rivals170043]

If this keeps up I’m moving my family to Texas.

 

[buckethead1978]

Bye

 

[trav55_rivals214556]

So one of the crappiest states for education keeps the students home. But it’s all about the kids, right?

It’s not like they aren’t making up the days. (They are by the way)

 

[JumperJack]

Union culture is not good for kids. It’s good for adults. End of story.

 

[fuzz77]

Again, some truth in what you say.

KEA does promote actions that may ultimately benefit kids but their first objective is ALWAYS to best serve members. I know this for an absolute fact. They may care for the kids, but that is secondary to the objective of serving members.

For example: As a person that once hired teachers and made decisions relative to salary increases, my position was always that the best reason to increase pay was to enable my people to attract superior teachers or encourage the best and brightest to choose the field.

Here's the difference:
Administrator: Best interests of kids first. It's good if teachers benefit.
KEA: Best interests of teachers first. It's good if kids benefit.

Administrator: Best interest of the administrators first, it's great if the kids benefit and good if the teachers do as well...
I don't say that as a slap at administrators but it's dishonest to think that any group of employees don't first look out for themselves. It's great if the company does well but if makes you miserable or your job harder then it's going to be hard to get buy in.
99% of people working in the field of education are there for the kids...they sure as hell aren't there for the money.

 

[fuzz77]

Hopefully the science classes are teaching the children that if a loud enough group of people claims something is true, it is in fact true. It's science.

Please present your qualifications to question what most who have studied the subject have agreed to.

To question climate change is nothing but placing one's head in the sand. You can debate what causes it, you can debate what can be done about it but you can't debate that it occurs.

 

[Ukbrassowtipin]

Is that consistent with the rest of the top spenders?

DC and New York (shocker...) spend a crap ton, and perform horribly.

...this is all assuming that "standardized tests" mean anything at all.

Seems most states are generally very similar. Within "10 points" of each other....whatever that means.

But to even try to compare different states like this is stupid. I don't see any evidence spending more gets you more. There are way too many variables in this stuff.

Yeah..how much does Detroit specifically spend.

 

[WonderBraa]

Could have fooled me. They are in their cars to go home before the students are on the buses. I don't buy into the whole "we're trying ti make children better!". No Karen, you're trying to get summers off..

Their incentive may be to teach the first 5 years. But once that tenure kicks in I’m sure they coast. I would. It’s human nature. So I think that 5 years needs to be double or tripled. Why should you not have a fire under you a$$ all the time?

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Their incentive may be to teach the first 5 years. But once that tenure kicks in I’m sure they coast. I would. It’s human nature. So I think that 5 years needs to be double or tripled. Why should you not have a fire under you a$$ all the time?

:100points: Nothing should be guaranteed. Certainly not teaching dodgeball in 4th period.

I will say this.. I'm all for giving teachers more money. Because we'd get more to choose from, and we wouldn't have to hear to hear the incessant whining. If I had a dollar every time I had to hear that "If I was paid like a babysitter per kid.." argument..

 

[WonderBraa]

:100points: Nothing should be guaranteed. Certainly not teaching dodgeball in 4th period.

I will say this.. I'm all for giving teachers more money. Because we'd get more to choose from, and we wouldn't have to hear to hear the incessant whining. If I had a dollar every time I had to hear that "If I was paid like a babysitter per kid.." argument..

I’ve talked to teachers I know and seen what they’re paid. Add in that 1/4 of the year they aren’t working and they make more than me as an engineer. On top of that they get raises nearly every year. Even the librarians are making bank by the time they retire. They then get to retire after like 28-30 years. Now they should NOT have to pay for supplies like they do. That is ridiculous. But most of these “issues” existed when they decided to become teachers.

If it was up to me, it would be tougher to become a teacher. That way you get the best of the best. Similar to doctors and the education they have to achieve. Teachers are extremely important. It’s really the systems fault bc they tell them what to teach and any bimbo can follow a rubric laid out for them. I hate that for the teachers who actually want to make a difference. But until the criteria for becoming a teacher is fixed, these issues aren’t going anywhere.

 

[thabigbluenation]

Please present your qualifications to question what most who have studied the subject have agreed to.

To question climate change is nothing but placing one's head in the sand. You can debate what causes it, you can debate what can be done about it but you can't debate that it occurs.

Once again you are the idiot. Everyone knows the stupid climate changes. You liberals think you can convince a bunch of fellow idiots that the government can administer a shitload of taxes on the people and corporations, only here in the U.S., and whafreakingla, the climate will suddenly quit changing? Of course the climate changes. It's not an excuse to give more money to the ******* government. What does the local, state, and federal governments do with all the tax money meant for these schools? Are the schools automatically better because we raised taxes?

How much money of ours will it take to satisfy you liberal pieces of ****?

 

[LineSkiCat14]

I’ve talked to teachers I know and seen what they’re paid. Add in that 1/4 of the year they aren’t working and they make more than me as an engineer. On top of that they get raises nearly every year. Even the librarians are making bank by the time they retire. They then get to retire after like 28-30 years. Now they should NOT have to pay for supplies like they do. That is ridiculous. But most of these “issues” existed when they decided to become teachers.

If it was up to me, it would be tougher to become a teacher. That way you get the best of the best. Similar to doctors and the education they have to achieve. Teachers are extremely important. It’s really the systems fault bc they tell them what to teach and any bimbo can follow a rubric laid out for them. I hate that for the teachers who actually want to make a difference. But until the criteria for becoming a teacher is fixed, these issues aren’t going anywhere.

It appears to be fairly "tough" to become a teacher. 4+1 years of schools. Form the generation before me in my family, several teachers in poorer schools, why should you HAVE to have a degree to teach? My best teachers didn't have degrees. You don't need a college education to motivate. Make the pay higher, increase demand.

I don't think teachers have it nearly as bad as they think. I mean listening to Fuzz's complaints.. Sometimes we have to use a rubric to mindlessly grade papers in front of the TV during primetime!... But I do think the pay is ****. Raise the pay, weed out the freeloaders who should be gas station attendants, kids profit.

Obviously it's never that simple, and parents are a lot of the problem. I'm hoping this whole heli-copter "my son could never do wrong" style of parenting dies out.. a lot of my age group, late 20's early 30's, is disgusted by parenting lately.. the pendulum will swing back. I fear for kids being born from 2020 to 2030. Life won't be easy.

 

[WonderBraa]

It appears to be fairly "tough" to become a teacher. 4+1 years of schools. Form the generation before me in my family, several teachers in poorer schools, why should you HAVE to have a degree to teach? My best teachers didn't have degrees. You don't need a college education to motivate. Make the pay higher, increase demand.

I don't think teachers have it nearly as bad as they think. I mean listening to Fuzz's complaints.. Sometimes we have to use a rubric to mindlessly grade papers in front of the TV during primetime!... But I do think the pay is ****. Raise the pay, weed out the freeloaders who should be gas station attendants, kids profit.

Obviously it's never that simple, and parents are a lot of the problem. I'm hoping this whole heli-copter "my son could never do wrong" style of parenting dies out.. a lot of my age group, late 20's early 30's, is disgusted by parenting lately.. the pendulum will swing back. I fear for kids being born from 2020 to 2030. Life won't be easy.

4-5 years of school isn’t much compared to higher regarded majors though. I think we are talking about the same thing. I agree, they have a lot of things going for them, as it stands now. But if we want to give our kids the best of the best, we have to make the standards for being a teacher tougher. Which is, like you said, weeding out the bad ones. Which could start by making tenure tougher to achieve. Retiring early, decent pay for 3/4 of the year, and a pension are hard to argue. And I’ll freely admit I don’t know everything about it all. But when I consider those three advantages, I don’t feel all that sorry.

At the same time, they shouldn’t have to pay for their own supplies or worry about temperatures for the school. More money should be given to the schools. Keep the heat off is just terrible. And school lunch is the only times some of these kids will eat, so I will side and fight for them there.

 

[buckethead1978]

You aren’t as smart as you think

 

[AlbanyWildCat]

Bravo to you teachers on this thread...keep up the good work.

I live in an affluent school district in NY and all my friends and neighbors have zero complaints about our high school taxes. You want good teachers and education, well, that costs money. If you can't pay, then cash out and move out.

You all need to quit being so cheap about one of the most important things our kids will get while growing up.

 

[thabigbluenation]

Bravo to you teachers on this thread...keep up the good work.

I live in an affluent school district in NY and all my friends and neighbors have zero complaints about our high school taxes. You want good teachers and education, well, that costs money. If you can't pay, then cash out and move out.

You all need to quit being so cheap about one of the most important things our kids will get while growing up.

High taxes have nothing to do with why the the schools in your district are good.

 

[AlbanyWildCat]

High taxes have nothing to do with why the the schools in your district are good.

False....

 

[thabigbluenation]

False....

High taxes fix everything, right? Affluent neighborhood, rich kids, parents who care about their kid's education, no poverty problems in the schools, these things have no influence? Just the almighty government at work using your tax dollars for the greater good. My God we need a purge, or an extinction event.

 

[warrior-cat]

"A disturbing fraction of students, and by extension their parents, do not take school seriously."

While other problems in this thread have some merit, the statement above is the most relevant imo. Increased interest from parents would help bring about higher pay for teachers because of the pressure that could be put on lawmakers. Also, more involvement from parents in the child's school life would go a long way to helping teachers when it comes to discipline in the class room.

With that being said, school administrators need also consider doing a better job weeding out substandard (bad) teachers. Unfortunately, and we see this in other professions as well, the bad stuff makes the news and gives the overall perception to the public and when it seems nothing is done about it, the public loses interest and figures nothing is going to be done so, why should I care?

 

[Crums Bald Spot]

Funding is NOT the problem. Regulations that protect disruptive students and require watering down of curriculum for children that can't achieve at high levels are two of the main problems

Bingo,,, the everyone gets a trophy crowd strikes again. No child left behind equates to " push unprepared kids through the system so no one's feelings are hurt".

Eventually people have to accept that there are winners and losers n life and catering to the lowest common denominator does nothing positive. It is only dumbing down America,

 

[rmattox]

Administrator: Best interest of the administrators first, it's great if the kids benefit and good if the teachers do as well...
I don't say that as a slap at administrators but it's dishonest to think that any group of employees don't first look out for themselves. It's great if the company does well but if makes you miserable or your job harder then it's going to be hard to get buy in.
99% of people working in the field of education are there for the kids...they sure as hell aren't there for the money.

you are right about not being in it for the money. There are admins and teachers who make tremendous sacrifices for kids and seek kids' interests above all. KEA is like a pseudo-union. Unions seek interests of members.

 

[rmattox]

I agree completely that standardized tests are a poor indicator of educational success, as well as there are too many factors to say money alone fixes anything. IMO, one of the most determining factors for school and student success is poverty. Most of those northeast states with high per pupil spending are also low poverty rate states having households with more educated caregivers. The same dollars spent in Kentucky wouldn’t have the same result because of those two factors.

BINGO

 

[rmattox]

High taxes have nothing to do with why the the schools in your district are good.

No, but schools are made better because their clients have the ability to and agree to pay higher taxes.

 

[rmattox]

High taxes fix everything, right? Affluent neighborhood, rich kids, parents who care about their kid's education, no poverty problems in the schools, these things have no influence? Just the almighty government at work using your tax dollars for the greater good. My God we need a purge, or an extinction event.

The government's efforts to fight poverty have had little positive impact going all the way back to Johnson's war on poverty. Impoverished kids may benefit from a school program here and there, but those that make it out of poverty usually have several things in common, such as:

Parents that are vehement in their demand that kids get an education and insist upon their being fully engaged in school;

Some type of mentor or someone they saw or interacted with that was an example of what life could be like, and the kid chose that route.

A teacher or teachers that went to bat for them or didn't define the kid by his economical status or his parents' status.

Two parents who were united in seeking the welfare of the kid. I've talked to lots of kids over the years and recall very few kids with chronic or significant problems academically or emotionally if they had two fully engaged parents who provided for the kid, insisted the kid behave, and stayed away from addictions.

 

[CAT Scratch FVR]

No, but schools are made better because their clients have the ability to and agree to pay higher taxes.

False

 

[rmattox]

False

Disagree. Demonstrated throughout the country. Poverty and parental disinterest/involvement are two keys in lack of academic success. Does not mean some kids in impoverished districts are not successful. I'm talking about overall school/district success.
Example: There are private schools in Ky that are very successful. They have parents that are interested enough in education and are willing to pay DOUBLE taxes for education (property taxes and tuition).

Money does not solve problems. Parents/communities that pay higher taxes are showing obvious interest in the importance and, by virtue of being able to pay, are less often impoverished.