That's what we get for going after Bourn instead of Pence

[tenureplan]

Not dissing Bourn. He has been the only one performing down the stretch. But it is only fitting that Pence beat us. That guy is clutch. I hate the Phillies but he is one of my favorite players in baseball.

 

[SanfordRJones]

Bourn filled the hole we needed to fill..... Ah nevermind. I'm done with the Braves until they fire Fredi.

 

[SchruteDog]

That idiot Wren is not going to be content until he has a platoon at every position.<div>
</div><div>I look forward to a full season with Bourn, but does it really matter? The Braves outfield has been pretty much powerless since JD Drew and Andruw left. They just aren't going to compete with the Phillies when they are getting less than 50 homeruns combined from all 3 OF positions, especially when the corner infielders aren't hitting for much power either. The Prado experiment is over. The Braves have no position for him unless Chipper retires, which doesn't look like its going to happen. Prado doesn't have 3b or LF power, and he's too impatient to hit #2 behind Bourn.</div><div>
</div><div>There's just no excuse not to have a single 100 RBI guy in the lineup year after year.</div>

 

[tenureplan]

We needed a man standing on 3rd to end every inning. We should have traded Minor and Heyward for Pence in a heartbeat.

 

[MSUArrowCS]

but it's just too hard to overlook the collapse of the starting pitching (injuries and otherwise) to blame anything else yet.<div>
</div><div>With McLouth coming off the books, it'll be interesting to see if they try to replace LF with a similar player or try to deal someone that's not very re-signable and actually get some power out there. I think only the latter will do unless they just want to be caught by the Mets and even Nats.</div>

 

[tenureplan]

The rookies were putting up quality starts, they just weren't getting any run support.

 

[MSUArrowCS]

Tehran: 0<div>Delgado: 0</div><div>Beachy: 1</div><div>Minor: 1</div><div>
</div><div>That's 2 QS by those 4 in an entire month, and 0 since Sept. 3. When they pitched well, they didn't pitch deep, and that in particular cost us. Not trying to say offense wasn't a problem, but with Hanson, Jurjjens or Lowe at any reasonable level of production we're still playing. We built an 8-game lead with a pretty terrible offense, but we were built on starting pitching and it fell apart.</div>

 

[boomboommsu]

In september, those four had onlytwo losses, with theBraves scoring a combined single run in those two losses. Lowe had 5 losses, with a combined 6 runs scored by the Braves.the bullpen had 8 losses.

They knew they needed a RH reliever at the trade deadline.they knew they needed to score more runs. they didn't go solve either of those problems. (they hoped Bourn would help with the latter, but his OBP reverted to his career norms (shocking!). they hoped callups would help with the former, but Fredi didn't use Gearrin properly (ROOGY), and relied on overusing Venters and Kimbrel, until they got tired.)

and i got blasted on here for predicting both of those. as well as for calling for trading JJ back at midseason for immediate hitting and bullpen help.

anyway, i would agree with your statement had Venters and Kimbrel looked the same in September as they had the rest of the season. but they were clearly tired and less effective (mainly by being more wild). and that happened because of all the times earlier we had the lead but a small one, and had no one else reliable in the pen. I don't think increased production from Hanson or JJ would have changed that, after all the other guys left with the lead in all but two games in September. sure, it probably makes a one game difference somewhere, but it doesn't account for the September collapse. that falls on hitting and the bullpen.

 

[tenureplan]

for turning so many big wins into hold/save opportunities.

 

[MSUArrowCS]

<div>the inability of starters to pitch out of the 5th without giving up runs would play a role in not having anyone reliable for the end of the game? By the time we gained a handful of reliable arms in the pen, they were checking in to pitch the 6th and 7th instead of closing the game out. Varvaro and Martinez come to mind.</div><div>
</div><div>I'm not trying to excuse the offense or bullpen. You don't blow an 8-game lead without multiple failures. But again, the team built its record on strong starting pitching and as that pitching went, so did the team. Period.</div><div>
</div><div>I agreed with you on JJ, btw.</div>

 

[boomboommsu]

and Venters and Kimbrel pitching the 8th and 9th isn't affected by whether the starter went 5 or 7. assuming the lead doesn't turn into a huge deficit. thanks to O'Flaherty, for the most part it didn't.

I'm saying if Hanson and JJ were still pitching to form, then the only difference would be less innings for C Martinez or Varvarvo. the ball still would have gone to Venters and Kimbrel in those games.

it's kind of like easy, cheap, and good, pick any two. you can win with SP, hitting, and/or bullpen, as long as you have two of the three. before Sept, the Braves had SP and bullpen. in September they had none of the three, but sans Lowe were fine with SP except they weren't going deep into games. but it wouldn't have mattered because the hitting and bullpen were still crap.