I agree. But in the populace's defense they aren't being educated what to do either. I've asked hundreds of people (varying ages, backgrounds, etc) through the yrs what kind of education they were given about 401k/IRAs, etc, when they were younger. They all say the same things, "none." The vast majority of the population was not taught at an early age, " Hey, this is a retirement plan, here's how it works, here's what you do, you better use it or you're screwed." Schools didn't teach it, parents didn't know enough about at the time to teach it, etc. And when I ask HS aged kids around the Bluegrass they still aren't getting the info......
The Champions of the 401(k) Lament the Revolution They Started
- Thread starter Perrin75
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I agree. But in the populace's defense they aren't being educated what to do either. I've asked hundreds of people (varying ages, backgrounds, etc) through the yrs what kind of education they were given about 401k/IRAs, etc, when they were younger. They all say the same things, "none." The vast majority of the population was not taught at an early age, " Hey, this is a retirement plan, here's how it works, here's what you do, you better use it or you're screwed." Schools didn't teach it, parents didn't know enough about at the time to teach it, etc. And when I ask HS aged kids around the Bluegrass they still aren't getting the info......
Uh, yeah. We don't use abacuses anymore, fester. Career earnings * max 5% matching. Maybe Autism will let you use one of his enable spreadsheets to do your ciphering.
With the advent of smart phones, people always have calculators on them, Kopikat. Pretty easy for a guy like Z to do the math to embarrass his fellow cashiers at Rally's. Really isn't a huge difference whether you do the math at $7 or 10 an hour.
Employees have little or no training on how to understand 401Ks; It is not mandatory, so many don't participate. The estimates from the article are 46% of Americans do not have a retirement account; There are too many exceptions that allow for raiding the fund, so many of them are depleted before they are allowed to grow; Most investors don't understand the market or long term investing, so when they do pay attention it is when the market is down and they are scrambling around trying to 'save' money, but they normally end up losing; Since most are participating in 401Ks through work they are completely reliant on some in their HR department to setup the program for them. Most companies are looking for ways to keep costs low, so a lot of company plans have high fees that end up costing the investor considerable money over time.
And the worst problem is that these issues are not being fixed for the current generation of investors.High school students should be getting money management education, including long term investing strategies and retirement preparation as part of their standard curriculum. And that training is sparse for those in the work place right now. We need something that is mandatory that is locked down so that there is a plan for everyone to not be a continuous burden on the state in the future.
And the worst problem is that these issues are not being fixed for the current generation of investors.High school students should be getting money management education, including long term investing strategies and retirement preparation as part of their standard curriculum. And that training is sparse for those in the work place right now. We need something that is mandatory that is locked down so that there is a plan for everyone to not be a continuous burden on the state in the future.
Will not be an accurate estimation. Also, never mind the dick-headedness of doing such a thing to an out-going worker, everybody knows you're a total prick. But you have ZERO way of knowing what options that person would have chosen over the course of that 30 year period, ZERO way of knowing what adjustments he would have made over the course of that 30 year period, and ZERO way of knowing whether participation in the program itself may or may not have affected whether he would have continued with the company for 30 full years. Just a ridiculous quantity of assumptions on your ******* part.
Also, I really liked the part where you admitted that it was "natural" for you to do that to a person. In your "nature" to be a real prick to a man after 30 years on the job, any job. Obviously, he made a poor decision. Obviously he worked for an employer who was so damn lazy, so damn stupid, so damn idle in providing proper education to the workforce that he made a decision that cost him and his family dearly. In your "nature" to rub it in his face. You suck dude. Jump off a bridge already.
There aren't too many exceptions to allow "raiding the fund"...It's actually pretty difficult to qualify for a withdrawal.
Funds are usually selected by trustees and participants can usually then direct the investments - so while there are options, it is somewhat limited in the amount of trouble an individual can get in...trustees job to keep a catalog of good investment options. Target date funds are very simple to understand.
Individuals should be able to read an enrollment packet and decide what's good for them.
Maybe some real life education in high school would be good. But I don't think anything should be mandatory regarding people stashing cash away.
Just use common sense and don't spend above your means and try to save when you can, if possible 10% of your salary and 99% of the population will be just fine. No need to overly complicate and come up with guidelines for people to have certain things done before they are X age.
Also, if you are truly that worried about money and going to stress about it your entire 50 year adult life then recommend to your children to just sit down and read a damn book for 2 hours a night every night, get good grades, and then get in a profession that makes good money.
Also, if you are truly that worried about money and going to stress about it your entire 50 year adult life then recommend to your children to just sit down and read a damn book for 2 hours a night every night, get good grades, and then get in a profession that makes good money.
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Spend $150 how often?
Most people ultimately don't have a choice about retirement. It's difficult to be productive past 70 and most companies aren't going to keep you on. And if you haven't noticed, there aren't many geriatrics out there partying it up and spending money. Maybe in key west, like you're used to. Some younger retirees may travel a bit, but most old people i know are homebodies, to a certain extent.
I certainly can't claim I'll want to work 40 years from now. I may not be able. I may be such a reprobate to society that I won't even have the choice to work. I just think generally, an able body should contribute to society any way he can. He provides a service, and doesn't need to leech of the government. It's a double win.
I was once slapped with a 30-hour stint of community service and spent those hours sorting bottles and cans at the Humane Society to feed the dogs and cats in the shelter. It was great. I actually felt better doing that than my own job. Unfortunately, it's volunteer work.. and wouldn't pay much if you did it as a full time job.. but something like that.. mindless work that helps someone or something... is exactly what I'd like to do later in life.
I was once slapped with a 30-hour stint of community service and spent those hours sorting bottles and cans at the Humane Society to feed the dogs and cats in the shelter. It was great. I actually felt better doing that than my own job. Unfortunately, it's volunteer work.. and wouldn't pay much if you did it as a full time job.. but something like that.. mindless work that helps someone or something... is exactly what I'd like to do later in life.
I know a guy who deferred 20% when he started his accounting job at like 25 years old...said he'd eat crackers if he had to...he cant touch it for 35-40 years, but he will be able to play a lot of golf when he is too old to.
I work for a good company, they double my contribution at 5%. It is compulsory afetr you turn 30/ Probably the biggest favor they will do many of the folks that work there.
A lot of folks think that once they pay off this,or get a little money in the bank they will then start saving. For many they never have that cushion and never are able to save. What kind of savings does someone working for minimum wage have?
A lot of folks think that once they pay off this,or get a little money in the bank they will then start saving. For many they never have that cushion and never are able to save. What kind of savings does someone working for minimum wage have?
Good question, let's run some numbers. (Feel free to check my math here guys)
-Min wage in KY is $7.25 x 2080 hrs/yr = $15,080 yr
-a 5% contribution would be $754/yr or roughly $63/month
-let's assume for this argument a 30% tax slice
-the difference in paychecks with and without contributions is $10,556/yr (~$880/mon) and $10,028/yr ($836/mo).........difference of $44/mo or $22/paycheck.
(Using CNNMoney's "how fast will my savings grow calculator"). If someone started at age 18 works for $7.25/hr.....put 5% contribution/month.....never had a raise or changed taxes, etc, etc......assuming calculator's default 8% average return.....at the end of 50 yrs (age 68) they'd likely have around $500,000 in savings.
Now certainly trying to live off of minimum wage is darn near impossible unless you all live 30 to an apartment but you can amass a decent amount of money.
That was a whole lot of words to use just to prove you are a neanderthal that thought it was hard to calculate how much somebody lost by not jumping on matching funds.
Frankly I'm surprised you can post on the internet. Do you pay some neighborhood kid to logon for you from your Atari console?
Was broke as heck with student loan debt, etc. until my late 20's but was able to get it all paid off in 6 years. Been putting 20% back in my 401k with a company match the past 11 years. Been maxing my Roth IRA for about 13 years as well as contributing to some other funds I have. Wife does the same and puts in about 10% into her 403b. Financial Adviser has helped us diversify as much as possible.
If we are blessed to stay healthy and live long enough and the economy/world does not crash before then we should have a pretty comfortable retirement and possibly be able to do it earlier than most. I do not care about buying million dollar homes, very expensive boats, cars, etc. Just give me enough to play lots of golf, no mortgage payment, money for healthcare, food, etc and some nice vacations and I am a pretty happy retiree.
Money management should be taught to kids in school but frankly I question if the ones teaching it even know how to properly manage money themselves. I know saving is not easy for millions of people because they just do not make much or have a lot of obligations such as kids, etc. but buying useless crap you do not need instead of saving/investing is where so many people go wrong.
If we are blessed to stay healthy and live long enough and the economy/world does not crash before then we should have a pretty comfortable retirement and possibly be able to do it earlier than most. I do not care about buying million dollar homes, very expensive boats, cars, etc. Just give me enough to play lots of golf, no mortgage payment, money for healthcare, food, etc and some nice vacations and I am a pretty happy retiree.
Money management should be taught to kids in school but frankly I question if the ones teaching it even know how to properly manage money themselves. I know saving is not easy for millions of people because they just do not make much or have a lot of obligations such as kids, etc. but buying useless crap you do not need instead of saving/investing is where so many people go wrong.
I don't believe in retiring. But when I get old I want to have the freedom to at least do the work I enjoy doing, not something I have to in order to pay the bills.
And for you young pups, put money in your 401k as soon as you can, or an IRA, Roth, something. It will make a huge difference when that compound interest starts making magic happen. I waited until 30s and regret it. Drugs, alcohol and sex are great stories in your 20s, but I'd rather have *some* of that money back now. I don't care if you can only put in $10 a paycheck...DO IT
And watch the fees...buy index funds for least amount of fees with most bang for the buck.
And for you young pups, put money in your 401k as soon as you can, or an IRA, Roth, something. It will make a huge difference when that compound interest starts making magic happen. I waited until 30s and regret it. Drugs, alcohol and sex are great stories in your 20s, but I'd rather have *some* of that money back now. I don't care if you can only put in $10 a paycheck...DO IT
And watch the fees...buy index funds for least amount of fees with most bang for the buck.
My monthly bar bills would make some of you gasp. That's my biggest "luxury" expense and it's not even close. Working to get that under control.
Drink from home! So much cheaper.
Drink from home! So much cheaper.
Real old fart here. I chuckle when I hear younger guys saying they plan to keep working as long as they can into old age. As if they are going to feel the same way when they creep up into their 50s and later. For most, getting out of the rat race looks better and better the older one gets. By the time you reach your mid-50s, unless you have some unique and special skills (and most naively believe they are that person), there will be people in your organization (unless you own the business) discussing how they can move you out and get a younger and cheaper person to replace you.
Even with education, people will still make dumb decisions. We have a very good employer match where I work (it is mandatory). There are retirement investment seminars every month that are free. Even with that, you find people that have no business being in charge of their money. I know several that just do not have any risk tolerance. They would rather tuck the money in their mattress or dig a hole in the ground. These people would be better served by pension plans, IMO.
Education helps, but it doesn't solve it all. I've only attended a few of the seminars, but have done ok. I think I'm just programmed to be a saver though. I started saving money when I was little & was fascinated by the idea of interest.
So not sure if this is right place to ask but what the heck. If employer has a pension for employees but no matching contribution for 401k's, but they do offer a 401k I can fund myself, how should the % income to put into the 401k be calculated, taking into account my paycheck deduction already going into the pension plan? I can only afford so much deducted out of paycheck each month for retirement so this might be a moot point, but just thought I'd ask anyway.
Use google to find some online retirement calculators. Search for ones that use pension and 401k input. Once you enter everything and adjust any assumptions, it should tell you if there is a shortfall that would need to be made up with extra savings (401k). AARP has one.
You'll need to know some things like:
current age
current salary
expected retirement age
How much income you want in retirement
how much your pension will provide
how much SS will provide
expected growth rate of any 401k investments (usually a default for this that can be adjusted)
The other big question is whether you should use a 401k option or fund an IRA (traditional or Roth).
Z can prolly calculate all this rather quickly.
If there is no match, you should fund an IRA up to thr max before entertaining a 401k contribution. Rule of thumb I've always heard is 15% of gross income. If you can't get to 15% with a fully funded IRA, then go back to the 401k. Most IRAs can be set up with automatic contributions thru bank withdrawal.
Completely agree. People tend to focus on what they've seen in their own lives. I focused on education based on my own experience. My parents couldn't save a dime and were not savvy at all. My parents were fantastic but my financial education from them was more a lesson of what not to do. HS didn't provide financial advice either.
It wasn't till college when I dated a wealthy girl that things started to click. Her father was obsesssed with money and I thought since he was wealthy why not learn the knowledge he knows? I started with the "______ for dummy" books, then went to other sources. And now I'm certainly no Warren Buffett, I am way further than I ever thought I could be.
You're right though, education would help but it certainly wouldn't cure all.
If you are bragging about having a nice retirement account, I hope you lose your effing shirt. TMFS
You'll be killed by a bus in 7 yrs--but you will have meant well. That's what counts.
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He's a complete dumbass, too. His obsession with future earnings is costing him more in the long run. A low QOL will catch up to him when he's old as he lays there being spoon fed in bed with the infinite volume of jars of Gerber's he was able to save up for.
Then his bratty kids, who witnessed his sad life and decided to eat drink and be merry, will blow his savings on hookers, blow, and $$$$importedbeer$$$$.
Idiot could live a shitload more comfortably on SS alone --than like a damn Billy G hobo eating crackers and Dr Pecker in his 5-story McTrailer in Jessamine effing County.
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I would think he changed it by now, but who knows...he can be a tight ***.
I think you gotta have a nice balance of living for now and preparing for later.
I contributed to my 401 K in my 30s even maxing for a few years. Stopped contributing when I lost jobs and ****. I'm knocking at the door of 50. My house will be paid off and no debt but other than that I'm fu-ked. There, I feel better now.
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Agree, I'm 36 & my wife is 35. We have 1/2 our house paid for and a real nice start on retirement. We are also starting to make some nice money. It's nice to enjoy trips and a new car knowing we can afford it now rather than stretching for them in our 20's when we couldn't and stressing out.
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That's kind of the goal.. live modestly until mid 30's or up until 40.. and then start living well.
Spend that ****. Today is all you are guaranteed so I'm gettin' mine.
I'm not too privy on wills and where my money goes when I die.. but I'm completely fine saving money and if I die, having the vast majority go to my brothers or parents. If I can't use my money I'll be glad to know it's helping someone else important to me.
What about those of us who took care of our health while young and didn't guzzle beer and eat red meat like a fatass?
Back in the 70's I made the assumption social security would be defunct by now. And fewer and fewer companies were offering pension plans, something that in 2017 is pretty much gone. Pension plan? More and more all one can find are contract jobs with absolutely no benefits of any kind. Now that I'm over 59 1/2 I am about half living off the 401k I built through consistent, dedicated contributions, company matched contributions, and financial discipline. I've never been one of those people who thinks any money they have in their pocket is meant to be spent. I saved some of it. What I didn't take into account is the extraordinary cost of health care in this country.