The current analytics obsession with going for it on 4th down

Ash Williams

Heisman
Aug 3, 2022
8,622
27,121
113
First of all - I'm thrilled beyond measure with our new coach. Stein is THE MAN and I believe in him. I just have one little quibble with his decision making that I wish he would change.

I get that analytics says the percentages favor going for it on 4th and short in certain situations, about 54% success rate vs. 86% for FGs. But there is an argument to be made about the asymmetrical risk of loss. See Dan Campbell and the Lions in 2023. He adopted a "this is who we are" mentality and his players bought in. But when the freaking SUPER BOWL is on the line, you have to at least consider those decisions. Campbell opted out of 2 makeable FGs and lost by 3. That's a potential career ending decision and the Lions may never sniff the Super Bowl again. I watched the Cowboys lose an important division game where they would have won if they just kicked FGs, just a year or so ago.

(The opposite end of the spectrum was Tom Landry of the Cowboys. He was always taking the conservative approach and rarely took chances. He was a legend but that was the single knock on him. Even Staubach complained about it in his book.)

Stein seems to be bitten by this same risk bug and it seems like an emotional one. We would likely have won in regulation last week if he went for a chip shot. And he opted out of a FG yesterday inside the 10 yard line with a 1 point lead where we would have led by 4. That makes me nervous because that meant we had to keep Oklahoma outside the 35 yard line. Luckily we tipped a pass and got the INT and the win. And yes I know, we missed 2 FGs against LSU so it might not have mattered. But don't forget, there's a rhythm to football, and keeping the kicker on the sideline when he's got an easy one might have a psychological effect. Analytics isn't everything.

Just to be clear, I'm not quibbling with his decision to go for 2 vs. SC and LSU. Those were game winners and that's a different situation.

Is anyone else bothered by this trend or is it just me?
 

ifer1116

Junior
Aug 22, 2025
95
241
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I hear what you're saying, part of me even agrees with you. Is it going to bite this team at some point? Possibly. But all I did was whine and ***** about Stoops being SOOOO damn conservative, to a fault at times. I wanted a coach that "plays to win" and I've got one now. So, I'd be a bit of a hypocrite to backtrack on that now. Maybe he'll end up tempering his philosophy a bit over time, who knows. Bottom line, this is probably the most fun I've had watching UK football in my 40+ years of fandom. I'm just gonna enjoy the ride. We're where we are because of Stein, not in spite of him.
 

Smeegs

All-Conference
Nov 19, 2025
1,269
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Stein seems to be bitten by this same risk bug and it seems like an emotional one.
That bug bite has worked mighty damn well for us so far. We won two overtime games by going for two in situations where other coaches would’ve just safely kicked to tie it up, and most of the 4th down calls have also worked out well.

So I’m not sure why anyone would be taking issue with this today. I love Stein’s penchant for rolling the dice. It’s made this season more fun, and there’s no doubt that it’s been working.
 

UKWildcats1987

Heisman
Sep 9, 2021
20,740
37,069
113
Its Steins philosophy. Its not gonna change and i love that. If we kick the field goal then Oklahoma may have adjusted offensive play calling and marched down the field for a touchdown.
 
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jeffky

All-American
Sep 22, 2017
3,959
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113
What about Anthony white salivating over will stein now when he constantly bashed any callers that wanted stoops gone 🤔
 

Smeegs

All-Conference
Nov 19, 2025
1,269
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Going back say 10+ years ago, coaches were way too risk averse. It may have gone overboard with too much risk-taking now, but I say it’s closer to a good balance point vs. back then.

I recall back in the 50-60’s, some coaches would punt on third down if like 3rd & 15 and inside own 20.
Folks raised on 80s and 90s football (like myself) are the ones that usually have an issue with it, because it’s not the way we were taught that smart football was played. But the truth is coaches back then simply had the math wrong, and were punting WAY too often in situations where going for it was actually the smarter call.

There have been a a lot of changes in the game that I’m not so fond of. But this is one I DO really like. Watching teams go for it is way more fun than watching them just throw in the towel and send in the punter.
 

davtay

All-Conference
Dec 31, 2002
1,358
1,420
113
First of all - I'm thrilled beyond measure with our new coach. Stein is THE MAN and I believe in him. I just have one little quibble with his decision making that I wish he would change.

I get that analytics says the percentages favor going for it on 4th and short in certain situations, about 54% success rate vs. 86% for FGs. But there is an argument to be made about the asymmetrical risk of loss. See Dan Campbell and the Lions in 2023. He adopted a "this is who we are" mentality and his players bought in. But when the freaking SUPER BOWL is on the line, you have to at least consider those decisions. Campbell opted out of 2 makeable FGs and lost by 3. That's a potential career ending decision and the Lions may never sniff the Super Bowl again. I watched the Cowboys lose an important division game where they would have won if they just kicked FGs, just a year or so ago.

(The opposite end of the spectrum was Tom Landry of the Cowboys. He was always taking the conservative approach and rarely took chances. He was a legend but that was the single knock on him. Even Staubach complained about it in his book.)

Stein seems to be bitten by this same risk bug and it seems like an emotional one. We would likely have won in regulation last week if he went for a chip shot. And he opted out of a FG yesterday inside the 10 yard line with a 1 point lead where we would have led by 4. That makes me nervous because that meant we had to keep Oklahoma outside the 35 yard line. Luckily we tipped a pass and got the INT and the win. And yes I know, we missed 2 FGs against LSU so it might not have mattered. But don't forget, there's a rhythm to football, and keeping the kicker on the sideline when he's got an easy one might have a psychological effect. Analytics isn't everything.

Just to be clear, I'm not quibbling with his decision to go for 2 vs. SC and LSU. Those were game winners and that's a different situation.

Is anyone else bothered by this trend or is it just me?
I'm not bashing CWS, but going on 4th in that situation was the incorrect call. Specially after calling a time out during the snap in which we converted, giving OU chance to regroup and stop the attempt. You kick the field goal to go up four, where they have to have a TD. Our defense and Mateer bailed us out. THAT is the only thing I have disagreed with Coach Stein on.

And hey, he is 6-1. Like he said....they win because of me. And I am at work on a Sunday. So, what do I know.
 

Snarks

All-American
Jan 31, 2005
8,715
7,465
93
My biggest complaint about the game was the way Stein played that 4th down at the end of the game. I understand lining up and if they seem out of sorts (which they were) then going for it. But, there was zero rationale for going for it after the timeout. I knew that was going to fail!
 
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Ash Williams

Heisman
Aug 3, 2022
8,622
27,121
113
That bug bite has worked mighty damn well for us so far. We won two overtime games by going for two in situations where other coaches would’ve just safely kicked to tie it up, and most of the 4th down calls have also worked out well.

So I’m not sure why anyone would be taking issue with this today. I love Stein’s penchant for rolling the dice. It’s made this season more fun, and there’s no doubt that it’s been working.
I wasn’t talking about going for two. In fact, I even addressed it. Thanks for not reading the original posts.
 

Ash Williams

Heisman
Aug 3, 2022
8,622
27,121
113
Folks raised on 80s and 90s football (like myself) are the ones that usually have an issue with it, because it’s not the way we were taught that smart football was played. But the truth is coaches back then simply had the math wrong, and were punting WAY too often in situations where going for it was actually the smarter call.

There have been a a lot of changes in the game that I’m not so fond of. But this is one I DO really like. Watching teams go for it is way more fun than watching them just throw in the towel and send in the punter.
And again you didn’t read the post. I wasn’t talking about punting, I was talking about chip shot field goals inside the 10 yard line.
 
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Smeegs

All-Conference
Nov 19, 2025
1,269
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And again you didn’t read the post. I wasn’t talking about punting, I was talking about chip shot field goals inside the 10 yard line.
That post was responding to someone else, and it was talking about the general change that has occurred with 4th down “should we go for it” decisions, it was not just about YOUR post.

And what I said applies to BOTH situations. The benefit of getting 7 points instead of just 3 justifies the risk of going for it near the goal line far more often than coaches of past generations realized. Today’s coaches have access to far more sophisticated math, and that’s why they now go for it more often …even if it makes older fans uncomfortable.
 
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Jul 6, 2025
2,810
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I love being aggressive. However not kicking the fg last night was absolutely the wrong decision. In that spot especially vs that team, you go up 4 there every single time. Make them have to get in endzone instead of exposing yourself to one of the best kickers in cfb.

It was a very poor decision no matter how you slice it. Thankfully the defense bailed him out.

Stein is way ahead of where I thought he would be in terms of being a head coach, but this and the bama fake punt decision were just really bad.
 

Ash Williams

Heisman
Aug 3, 2022
8,622
27,121
113
That post was responding to someone else, and it was talking about the general change that has occurred with 4th down “should we go for it” decisions, it was not just about YOUR post.

And what I said applies to BOTH situations. The benefit of getting 7 points instead of just 3 justifies the risk of going for it near the goal line far more often than coaches of past generations realized. Today’s coaches have access to far more sophisticated math, and that’s why they now go for it more often …even if it makes older fans uncomfortable.
And AGAIN, you're not paying attention. We had a chance to go up 4 with 2 minutes to go. That forces OK to go for the end zone. We gave them a chance and that's too risky. A high schooler could have made 23 yard field goal. There are situations where the risk outweighs the reward and that was one of them.

So far you're 0 for 3. You might want to regroup before posting again. I'm seriously trying to have a rational discussion and you're just spewing scheizze all over this thread.
 

SenseMaker_Cats

All-American
Jul 3, 2025
2,329
6,754
113
That post was responding to someone else, and it was talking about the general change that has occurred with 4th down “should we go for it” decisions, it was not just about YOUR post.

And what I said applies to BOTH situations. The benefit of getting 7 points instead of just 3 justifies the risk of going for it near the goal line far more often than coaches of past generations realized. Today’s coaches have access to far more sophisticated math, and that’s why they now go for it more often …even if it makes older fans uncomfortable.
There’s no young math or old math that tells you to go for it there with a 1 point lead when an extra point distance FG gives you a 4 point lead. They’d gotten the ball in the end zone ONCE all game for goodness sakes.
 

UKGrad24

All-American
Apr 2, 2024
3,129
7,872
100
Going back say 10+ years ago, coaches were way too risk averse. It may have gone overboard with too much risk-taking now, but I say it’s closer to a good balance point vs. back then.

I recall back in the 50-60’s, some coaches would punt on third down if like 3rd & 15 and inside own 20.
It wasn’t really about risk as much as it’s about playing defense. Right now we think offense / get points is the game. Until this new era we didn’t view offense as “more important” as we do today.

Im still of the belief that what we’re seeing is what I call “video game football” era. Throughout growing up in the 90’s, nobody punted with 4th and 1. It’s a go go go. Growing up coaches punting 4th and 1 and you’d have millions of gamer fans screaming go. Stein and these guys grew up playing video games.

I am sticking to my think. This is about video games.
 

Cleatortoises

Heisman
Dec 24, 2018
3,085
10,627
113
That post was responding to someone else, and it was talking about the general change that has occurred with 4th down “should we go for it” decisions, it was not just about YOUR post.

And what I said applies to BOTH situations. The benefit of getting 7 points instead of just 3 justifies the risk of going for it near the goal line far more often than coaches of past generations realized. Today’s coaches have access to far more sophisticated math, and that’s why they now go for it more often …even if it makes older fans uncomfortable.
I'm fairly certain that math hasn't really changed in my lifetime.
 

theBlues

All-Conference
Oct 18, 2025
1,990
4,462
113
If we'd taken the field goal against LSU they probably would have went for the 4th and one so it could easily have bitten us in the butt.
 

Goingfor9

All-Conference
Jan 27, 2003
16,524
3,587
113
We went for it on fourth down and four on the five. 4 yards to me is kind of a stretch.. a field goal there and it will take them a touchdown to win. I know he has lack of faith in the kicker, but you gotta have somebody on the roster that can make that 20 yard field goal. And you’ve gotta kick the field goal in that situation because the difference it may not show in the stats, but Oklahoma with the best kicker in college football or one of the best and at that point a field goal would’ve made it an insurmountable lead.
 
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mjj_2K

All-American
Jul 11, 2010
12,599
7,284
113
First of all - I'm thrilled beyond measure with our new coach. Stein is THE MAN and I believe in him. I just have one little quibble with his decision making that I wish he would change.

I get that analytics says the percentages favor going for it on 4th and short in certain situations, about 54% success rate vs. 86% for FGs. But there is an argument to be made about the asymmetrical risk of loss. See Dan Campbell and the Lions in 2023. He adopted a "this is who we are" mentality and his players bought in. But when the freaking SUPER BOWL is on the line, you have to at least consider those decisions. Campbell opted out of 2 makeable FGs and lost by 3. That's a potential career ending decision and the Lions may never sniff the Super Bowl again. I watched the Cowboys lose an important division game where they would have won if they just kicked FGs, just a year or so ago.

(The opposite end of the spectrum was Tom Landry of the Cowboys. He was always taking the conservative approach and rarely took chances. He was a legend but that was the single knock on him. Even Staubach complained about it in his book.)

Stein seems to be bitten by this same risk bug and it seems like an emotional one. We would likely have won in regulation last week if he went for a chip shot. And he opted out of a FG yesterday inside the 10 yard line with a 1 point lead where we would have led by 4. That makes me nervous because that meant we had to keep Oklahoma outside the 35 yard line. Luckily we tipped a pass and got the INT and the win. And yes I know, we missed 2 FGs against LSU so it might not have mattered. But don't forget, there's a rhythm to football, and keeping the kicker on the sideline when he's got an easy one might have a psychological effect. Analytics isn't everything.

Just to be clear, I'm not quibbling with his decision to go for 2 vs. SC and LSU. Those were game winners and that's a different situation.

Is anyone else bothered by this trend or is it just me?
It's an interesting question, and it's now being posed in every sport. In baseball it's the "3 true outcome" approach to hitting (walk, strikeout, or homerun). In basketball it's the "every shot should be a 3 pointer or a layup" idea. In football it's decisions like you're talking about.

On the whole, the math doesn't lie and points the way to the best approach. But everything in sports is fluid and situational, and the math is a blunt instrument. So I'd say on the whole you want a coach who understands the analytics and leans towards it, but not someone who completely turns his brain off and responds with "but the numbers say" to every situation.
 

Im The Village Idiot

All-American
Sep 7, 2025
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I don’t know enough about football to quibble about analytics-based decisions. I trust Stein has informed people around him and that these are the correct decisions. When it comes to basketball, I feel confident being granular but not football. I trust Stein and staff. I did think we should have kicked the FG late in the game, but who cares — we won.
 

Snarks

All-American
Jan 31, 2005
8,715
7,465
93
If going for it truly was a lack of faith in the kicker then he needs to give Kauwe a shot. Points were hard to come by in that game, they had 1 TD, and an All American kicker. We got bailed out, but that wasn’t worth the risk IMO.
 

HeismanWinner

All-Conference
Sep 12, 2025
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I understand going for it on fourth and one but not longer than that. I do not understand giving up points early. Those add up and could bite you in the butt.

Take last night for example, if we take the field goal, that pick six puts the game away. Instead, failing meant we could’ve lost by a field goal before the interception- and also meant they could still tie it up if they had scored on that final drive.
 

3236

All-Conference
Dec 12, 2003
7,321
4,207
77
I am not dismissive of analytics but when someone says ‘the analytics say…’ I don’t even know what that means. The average across all of football teams? Because the only thing that really matters to me in the decision is
1. What is the game situation
2. What is the down and distance
3. What are my team’s strengths/weakness
4. What is the opponent strength/weakness
 

Ukbrassowtipin

Heisman
Aug 12, 2011
82,350
90,375
113
Going for 2 in the previous games was the right decision.

Going for it on 4th down in field goal range when a fg would put you up 4 against a team that struggles to score wasnt the correct decision. Oh well, D stepped up
 
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