My favorite character was probably BB-8 haha I seriously looked forward to the scenes it was in. The scene when BB-8 was zapping Finn to get info about Poe was great.
The Force Awakens
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My wife loved BB-8 as well. The part where he flicked the lighter like he was giving Finn a thumbs up had her laughing harder than any adult should have been laughing at that scene.
BB-8 was surprisingly my favorite character and we both laughed at that part. Liked Finn as well. Hated Rey though. Boring *** character.
Then they have a "pass." But we've never seen that in any other film so it's pure speculation. Who else went from novice to badass within 10 minutes for this series? Anakin didn't nor did Luke.
Star Wars seems to really struggle on how to handle villains outside of Vader. They ruined Darth Maul and let Kylo Ren get wrecked by Rey, who just picked up a lightsaber for the first time.
I guess you missed where he was shot by Chewy's bowcaster and also injured by Finn and where Rey beat down some dudes with her staff.
Wait, because you went into the movie with some serious baggage (just look at the first few pages of this thread) means that all the stuff you didn't like about Rey's character development (which has nothing to do with her gender) were because she was a woman and JJ wanted to show us that women are better at made up magic than men? Do you even hear yourself? Kid Anakin blew up the Star Wars equivalent of an aircraft carrier with "oops sorry for blowing everything up that coincidentally helped us defeat a Sith plan, oh well!" Kid Anakin can do whatever b/c his midochlorian count is off the chart, yo!
"somehow learns ... how to use a lightsaber on the fly." You mean swing a damn stick? Like she had done, over and over, already in the film, establishing her proficiency with melee weapons generally? And she beat a wounded, immature bad guy. With the help of magic, er, the force. The rest of your complaints boil down to "the made up, inconsistent magic in this fictional universe did not work as I was lead to believe."
You know what was ridiculous? Batman recovering from a broken spine in like a month by getting it broken again. Then he climbs out of a hole, somehow gets back to NYC, er, Gotham, and fights and wins (and rips off The Crow with his gasoline artwork). But that's just because the director wanted you to see the strong strength of strong men. Meanwhile, the women in the movie were sissies and, at best, mere assistants to the real strong strength of strong men.
Sincerely,
VaginaWildcat85 (alternate universe Heisman)
So much this. Heisman is like that Louisville fan that broke down the 2014 game and found ~ 155 uncalled fouls on UK.
I wouldn't suggest this to anyone other than you (because it's a bad movie), but go rewatch Episode I and tell me know Anakin did all the stuff he did. As a kid. Not a late teen/early 20s adult that had been living on her own, had at least self-taught martial training, etc... A kid with idiots for friends. Building C3-PO. Building the pod racer that, at full strength, was 2x as fast as any other. Took out a huge space station like he was Home Alone kid. No matter, though. That kid was male. [eyeroll]
Let's examine this...
I didn't go into the movie looking for ulterior motives. I went months after the release once the hype died down and so I could have low expectations. I don't know how you can't see the deliberate feminist stuff for the sole purpose of making a "statement."
We're in the age where there are tons of female "heroes" and protagonists where they're made to make men look weak and stupid. It's the era of the Hunger Games type roles. These filmmakers, however, seem to think the only way you can be a strong woman is if you emulate a man. Femininity is seen as "weak."
As for salaries, let's dive into it. Actors hire representation to negotiate these deals for them and they ultimately agree to take the role or turn it down. They're offering you a price to come join just like a pro team would offer other players different deals. Men are easily the bigger sells if you're hellbent on the idea of marketing your movie with "movie stars."
How many people simply go to a movie because of a female lead actor (Without her being naked)?
Nope, I didn't miss it. I knew those circumstances when I posted.
- Finn makes a statement that he was raised to be a soldier but he had never seen battle before that time and decided he wouldn't kill for them so he's never actually been in combat and he's never used a lightsaber but I'll almost give that a pass simply because he's physically on par with Kylo if not stronger (probably stronger).
Meanwhile, Rey has not had any training. Never picked up a lightsaber and never even knew of the force but all of a sudden, she overpowers Kylo Ren's mind, knows how to use Jedi mind trucks on stormtroopers and beats a guy who had trained under Luke Skywalker and the Sith. Even Luke got his *** whipped in Empire.
That movie is terrible. However, with Anakin, you already have an established story that you have to get to. He was the "chosen one" that was amazing at mechanics and was a slave working on those types of things. But he wasn't beating Darth Maul with a lightsaber. He still needed to train under Obi Wan and even then he got beat by Dooku and Obi Wan. Rey doesn't go through any of these progressions. She goes from 0-100 in everything.
Super mature ^. Have a legitimate discussion instead of getting butt-hurt because I have a different opinion than you. I don't personally attack you.
No one is talking about Dark Knight Rises. This is an origin story for her so you should start with Batman Begins if you're going to make an accurate comparison. Bruce Wayne didn't just become a "badass." He got his *** kicked before going into hiding and becoming a part of the League of Shadows where he was trained.
If she doesn't beat Kylo Ren then it's not that much of an issue but when you add up the obvious crap where she's just perfect and knows everything more than everyone else and has to be the one saving them, it can be a turnoff.
I didn't pay to look for negative ****. I paid to enjoy a Star Wars movie, see the new direction with a cool villain and the old cast. I enjoyed some parts but the other stuff was just a total "C'mon" whenever Rey did her crap.
You act like this isn't a huge discussion and popular criticism of this movie. I know being one of only two people criticizing the movie in a 26 page thread, is likely to get people "freaking out" over a different view.
It's really hard to not call you a liar when you read the first pages of this thread and you are losing your **** over the poster.
I waited two months to see it where I would have been more critical if I saw it when it first came out. Back in November, me and another guy simply pointed out the factual quotes and reasons for what J.J. did and said. If you're surrounded by non-stop "progressive politically correct" brainwashing, you tend to pick up on it pretty quickly.
With that, I still said "Whatever. It's Star Wars. Just have low expectations and check it out." Rey's garbage was the main issue.
Luke's training consisted of a couple of days with Obi Wan before he went tits up and a week or so on Dagobah levitating rocks and giving Yoda piggy back rides. It's not like he'd been trained for years or some ****.
She was pretty damn good at staff (melee) combat before even seeing a lightsaber. She clowned several fools, and her proficiency with her staff was well established well before any force stuff came up. So that's like going from awesome at a car racing to pretty damn good at truck racing. 90-100. And then racing someone is a truck with damage (injury).
As for force stuff, there's plenty to suggest that some are just good right away. Anakin's pod racing as a pre-pubescent boy when they established that literally no other human could do it because they lacked the reflexes. Qui-Gon pretty much said, "yup, he's pretty good at pod racing because the force. In which he has no training. At all." He was established as the chosen one? So you want someone to hold your hand and spell it out? Show, don't tell. Hint - Rey is going to be an important and powerful player in the Star Wars: Force is Forcing series.
And you ignore the fantasy aspect of this all, which is absurd. The force is the deus ex machina for everything in this series. Everything. If Rey's powerful, it's because the force, not her ******. Maybe we should bring back midochlorians and we can chart everyone and whoever is called the chosen one (which puts its own limits on storytelling) can do whatever but others with less midochlorians can only do what has clearly been established in a training montage (complete with 80s music).
My point re: VaginaWildcat85 was not to be mean but to point out that your polar opposite, who sees everything as male oppression, would see almost every other movie in a similar but opposite way. In other words, you see the movie through your lens. Your lens is just high on perceiving slights that aren't there re women. Your problem is with the pacing of the hero's powers, which is a legit criticism that others have. But the fact that she is a woman does not make that a PC overreach issue. She's a woman, and her character has a plot development issue that is unrelated to her womanhood.
And everyone is missing the elephant in the room. JJ Abrahams, and everyone working on Star Wars ever, is human. Humans are always the most powerful (good and evil) in this galaxy filled with an absurd amount of sentient species. Even Yoda failed and had to get humans to clean up his mess. The agenda is transparent.
I still don't see anything wrong with it. I don't care if he has an agenda. Think about the tens of thousands of movies that have been made over the years where women didn't have voice, where they were reduced to stereotypes, second class citizens, etc. In fact this makes me like this Star Wars even more. I'm happy as hell that it has pissed off all these mysogynists.
Forget politically correct. It's financially correct to have a female lead. Disney is going to make billions, billions, more because of a strong female they can market to young girls.
Checkout Anomalisa by the way. Weird but thought provoking. Couldn't get it out of my head for several days.
They could have had a midget be the lead and it would still have broken records. It does however help toys and Halloween costumes.
It's just interesting. The media flipped out over American Sniper being "propaganda" but this was okay.
You all keep acting like a female protagonist is the issue and it's not. I love the first Underworld, love Alien, love Terminator, those were all awesome. This was not (IMO) and labeling someone that points out the motivation for their storyline doesn't make me a mysogynist.
Saw Charlie Kaufman's name after googling it...already sold.
Midget, Asian female lead and Star Wars clears our national debt
So your issue was with her character progression, which is a fine criticism. But going from that to saying it was some feminist plot (or PC or whatever) is a huge, unsupported leap. You know what was pro-female/anti-male? The juxtaposition of Natalie Portman's decent acting and Christian Haydensen's whiny, poorly written dialogue. Did you cry feminism after that? Because it showed that men are whiny, immature idiots and women are reasonable, articulate adults? Or do we just accept that was a dialogue/acting problem, not an agenda?
Don't research it too much. Just know it's going to be weird and leave it at that. I didn't know much about it going in, except the vague trailer, and it was nothing like I thought it was going to be.
The PC stuff comes from what we know from J.J's personal statements.
I also, don't think you can compare a film from 2005 to one in 2015/2016 when it comes to trying to promote SJW progressive ideological agendas. Lucas just sucked with dialogue. Anakin couldn't handle his emotions like a moody teen. However, Obi Wan was tough and wise in those films.
Did you know That Snoke was a woman halfway through production? Did you know they intentionally changed Captain Phasma's gender? JJ and these things contribute to why I feel it was over the top.
Who cares what Phasma's gender was? Why was the character male in the first place? It was a character born from a failed attempt to make Kylo. I'm sure they were really attached to that character having balls. They made a villain (Phasma) into a woman, which is a sign of feminist agenda, but changed a villain (Snoke) from a woman to a man, which is a sign of ... a feminist agenda? Da fuq?
I guess the point is that all characters are male, and changing them to female without a need such as eye candy or love interest or babies is SJWing to the ceiling.
Women in the military, badass captain over the legion of male stormtroopers. This occurs despite no women being in a military position in the OT. Snoke also, being the be-all, end-all ruling over Kylo Ren and blah blah blah.
This is where we suspend belief even further and pretend all of these women are just beating the piss out of men and physically out-performing them and getting these powerful positions. Ole Rey, a 5-foot-7 120 pound girl, whipping everyone's *** and out-classing everyone with zero failures. She's a Mary Sue. Yay!
Look, this franchise's audience is overwhelmingly male. This type of **** is just further feminist propaganda to emasculate men, brainwash the masses into their ideology and try to make some extra cash grabs for toys to little girls (who isn't a big portion of your fan base). So many of us have been beaten over the head with this crap. It gets old.
So let's agree to disagree. We're going in circles. I know it's blasphemy to bash this movie but if this didn't say "Star Wars" attached to it, you all might see it a bit differently.
You continue to say this crap and I am not that poster. It's really annoying.Here is the link to his profile under his new name "CatsRuleSEC."
https://kentucky.forums.rivals.com/members/catsrulesec.484/
And agreed on Anakin.
Alright sick of that talking point.
More curious of @DaBossIsBack view on this one. What's your thoughts on Kylo Ren removing his mask so much? Do you think it took away from Kylo's threatening presence? It humanized him a lot to me and made him less of a villain. Would Vader have been as epic if he removed his mask multiple times and fought battles unmasked?
I think if he takes it off one time during the Han scene, it makes an impact. Then after he kills him, if he puts it back on symbolizing that he's now all in on Kylo, it would have worked better.
More curious of @DaBossIsBack view on this one. What's your thoughts on Kylo Ren removing his mask so much? Do you think it took away from Kylo's threatening presence? It humanized him a lot to me and made him less of a villain. Would Vader have been as epic if he removed his mask multiple times and fought battles unmasked?
I think if he takes it off one time during the Han scene, it makes an impact. Then after he kills him, if he puts it back on symbolizing that he's now all in on Kylo, it would have worked better.
No, it's the millennial age and the kids do what they damn well please and wrecklessly
Heisman, your going to be wrong on Rey in the next movie. Everything you claim she was so badass about with no training came about because her enemy was weakened, and I think it's going to show Kylo Ren knew of her and could t bring himself to want to destroy her.
Also remember, Vader was the one to bring balance back, which he did when he killed the emperor. His bloodlines also held up the force too. Not everything about the series is in the here and now which is what makes it so good. It allows you to think, imagine, and create your own character de elopement.
Heisman, your going to be wrong on Rey in the next movie. Everything you claim she was so badass about with no training came about because her enemy was weakened, and I think it's going to show Kylo Ren knew of her and could t bring himself to want to destroy her.
Also remember, Vader was the one to bring balance back, which he did when he killed the emperor. His bloodlines also held up the force too. Not everything about the series is in the here and now which is what makes it so good. It allows you to think, imagine, and create your own character de elopement.
After doing more research and studying the film, I think you're right that it will be explained and we'll see something about her memory being wiped. Kylo seemed to show that he knew who they were talking about when they said "a girl helped them."
I was just going off of what we are currently presented with, which can be an easy-fix in the second film with a backstory to justify it. But certainly you can see my stance when taking this at face value after the established material we had in the six films.