The ship gets righted today or it's over. This is a bad Ga Tech team. They're 0-2 with losses to Ga. State and Mercer, no sugar-coating it. Neither of those teams are in the same ballpark as Richmond.
The ship will right
- Thread starter davekersey
- Start date
Has to be, last one and probably last ever. Unless Allen stays until his senior year
Hope you're correct b/c right now, the ship is taking on serious water and the bilge pumps have blown gaskets. The ship has a seriously flawed maintenance program fraught with neglect as whispers of mutiny continue.
It has been answered as many times, you just don’t like the answer.
Let’s break this down and see the math here.
I am not sure why you even mentioned Wisconsin, Baylor and UF. They have awful records historically and the last 5+ years.
Baylor has been past the sw16 twice since the 1950’s. That was 2010 and 2012. They have only even made the SW16 4 times. You really want our program to be like them? LOL
Florida has made it past the E8 once since 2007. They have missed the tournament twice the last five times it was played. Again, do you really want to be like that? LOL
Wisconsin hasn’t made it past the SW16 since they beat us in the F4 in 2015. They missed the tournament one of those years. They also have as many F4 appearances in their history as Cal does at UK alone. Do you really want to be like them? If so, why?
They all had upperclassman, why weren’t they able to perform like it? Why did they do worse than us with mostly freshman who allegedly only care about the draft?
Ok, now let’s look at the next group:
Gonzaga has made the F4 one time in their history. They routinely have entered the tournament as a high seed and solid betting choice. It took Mark Few 16 years between his first and second E8 appearance and 19 years to make his first F4. Are you willing to wait that long between E8 trips and a F4 here? Are you willing to underperform your seeding that often? How has having upperclassmen and less NBA prospects helped them?
UVA has made it past the SW16 twice in Bennett’s tenure it took him 8 years to do it the first time. They got bounced in the E8 that year. Then it took another 3 to make it to the F4. Are you willing to wait that long? Also, his team and him became the first coach/team in history to lose to a #16 seed as a #1 seed. That was before he ever won his title. Would you accept that? Would you be willing to let him stay around to win that title after getting humiliated like that? What do you think would have been the reaction around here if that happened at UK? His teams also averaged like 40ppg a good bit if his time at UVA. We avg more than that now and people are melting down over it. And again, how did all those upperclassmen help them out if they weren’t really performing that well overall for 12 seasons?
Villanova is everyone’s favorite team to mention on here with those 2 titles. Few things people forget regarding Nova however. Only 4 times in his 22 seasons has J Wright been past the sw16. It took him 7 years to get past that round the first time. He was bounced in the E8. It took him 18 years at Nova to even make the F4 for the first time. Do you honestly thing UK fans would have been that patient? Lol. He has 2 titles and 3 final 4’s in 22 years as the coach. Even you admit he has had talent and experience. Why hasn’t it helped more? Would you honestly be okay with those results and that timeline to achieve them? Not to mention, Jay Wright has missed the tournament 7 times in those 22 seasons. How well do you expect that to go over here? LMAO
The 2 teams left on your list are also bluebloods, and they were also both caught cheating. Maybe you want that kind of culture and accept that. I would not.
UNC has only made it past the Sw16 4 times in Cal’s tenure here. 2 of those resulted in F4 trips. 1 of those was gifted by a rogue ref. They also only have 1 title in that time to show for the cheating. Had the tournament been played last year, there is a very good chance UNC wouldn’t have been it. That would have marked the second time this decade they would have missed it. Even with all those JRs and SRs. How do you explain this? Would you be okay with those results and culture?
KU has 1 F4 the last 8 years and has been cheating their asses off. They have 1 championship in Self’s tenure and that was almost 13 years ago. Are you really going to be happy with UK if we posted the same results?
All of these teams had experience you said you wanted. Many of them had talent and experience. After looking at their results, please tell me which one you would want to switch with and that you honestly think would have made it at UK?
Lol, yea, cancel one of the things that brings us national recognition and that players love. That would be great for marketing. LOL. If you do this, you will have a lot of down years as I just provided from other programs that do this approach. Are you okay with that? You also aren’t going to get top players to come here if their position has a lot of experienced guys expecting to get time already here. Nor will experienced players want to sit behind OAD types. It’s a double-edged sword and you aren’t very often going to get both. Why do you think the guys we do bring in that should be multi-year guys transfer? The others blowup their expectation year one and go first round, i.e. Herro, SGA and now Jackson and potentially Fletcher. That isn’t Cal’s fault. He should really get credit for developing them so quick.
Tyrese and Knox both had solid UK seasons as freshman and lived up to their draft expectations. Both were always thought to be OAD. Tyrese proved he could make shots, facilitate offense, create for himself and play some D. He was also a decent athlete with size. Knox was a 6’9 forward who could shoot and create and finish around the rim. Most anyone who aspires to reach the highest level and get paid are going to take that opportunity as fast as possible. You are literally defining the point of college.
Duke has horrible upperclassman. Do you really want Goldwire? LOL.
Lol, they transferred because they couldn’t play defense or weren’t good enough to keep on the floor in stretched, when they and their camps felt otherwise. Most of them didn’t want to put in the work to improve and left. I expect Allen will do the same. I hope not, as I really like his game and think in time, he could be really good, but he is a score 3 give up 6 type player right now. Take off the he’s a KY kid blinder and it is not hard to see.
That USC loss was awful. They were horrible. We had WI down by 8 with minutes to go and crumbled. The same WI team we beat the year before with a lot less talent. WI was a good team obviously. But it was bad. Hell, we almost loss to ND before that. Evansville was the true bad loss on Cal’s resume at KY. I won’t deny that as a bad loss. Still ended up pretty good on the season though. I liked our chances a lot in the end. Lol, Auburn was a really good team who we already beat twice. That wasn’t a bad loss other than we missed out on the F4. K-State and IN also weren’t bad losses. Both were teams pretty much on our level those years. Richmond this year also wasn’t a bad loss. There is a reason they were getting votes to be ranked in the preseason and were a pretty popular upset pick. We were also only a 7pt favorite. Not exactly a big upset there.
I don’t disagree Askew should be multi-year. It is a long season though. He may look like SGA by seasons end. We also just had 2 returning guards last year. One that most people on here wanted gone and now want back. I don’t think it is fair to just assume Askew with jump if he isn’t ready. Didn’t Nova just have a guy jump early and they don’t have a lot of NBA players period? UVA doesn’t have any good players in the league that I can name. MSU has had Gary Harris, Jaren Jackson, Mile Bridges and Deyonta Davis and Tillman all leave early for pros. From the stats I provided earlier, which of the programs do you want to switch with?
I would gladly take the Hagans turnovers for what else he offered. He ran the team well, setup guys, made FTs and played great D. He improved year 1 to year 2 and likely would have improved even more year 3. Fans always harping on him was a big mistake.
You can call me oblivious, but you seem to be the one who has no answers and no clue what you are really talking about. You’ve just slurped Morgousky’s cooter juice and sniffed her queefs a bit too much until you have become intoxicated by her beliefs. Now you are just regurgitating them. So, again, please tell us which program you listed out that you would like to trade with? I would love to hear this.
Well, I answered them and am now happily awaiting your response. Guessing it won’t be much. Lol
Just a recap:
I am not sure why you even mentioned Wisconsin, Baylor and UF. They have awful records historically and the last 5+ years.
Baylor has been past the sw16 twice since the 1950’s. That was 2010 and 2012. They have only even made the SW16 4 times. You really want our program to be like them? LOL
Florida has made it past the E8 once since 2007. They have missed the tournament twice the last five times it was played. Again, do you really want to be like that? LOL
Wisconsin hasn’t made it past the SW16 since they beat us in the F4 in 2015. They missed the tournament one of those years. They also have as many F4 appearances in their history as Cal does at UK alone. Do you really want to be like them? If so, why?
They all had upperclassman, why weren’t they able to perform like it? Why did they do worse than us with mostly freshman who allegedly only care about the draft?
Ok, now let’s look at the next group:
Gonzaga has made the F4 one time in their history. They routinely have entered the tournament as a high seed and solid betting choice. It took Mark Few 16 years between his first and second E8 appearance and 19 years to make his first F4. Are you willing to wait that long between E8 trips and a F4 here? Are you willing to underperform your seeding that often? How has having upperclassmen and less NBA prospects helped them?
UVA has made it past the SW16 twice in Bennett’s tenure it took him 8 years to do it the first time. They got bounced in the E8 that year. Then it took another 3 to make it to the F4. Are you willing to wait that long? Also, his team and him became the first coach/team in history to lose to a #16 seed as a #1 seed. That was before he ever won his title. Would you accept that? Would you be willing to let him stay around to win that title after getting humiliated like that? What do you think would have been the reaction around here if that happened at UK? His teams also averaged like 40ppg a good bit if his time at UVA. We avg more than that now and people are melting down over it. And again, how did all those upperclassmen help them out if they weren’t really performing that well overall for 12 seasons?
Villanova is everyone’s favorite team to mention on here with those 2 titles. Few things people forget regarding Nova however. Only 4 times in his 22 seasons has J Wright been past the sw16. It took him 7 years to get past that round the first time. He was bounced in the E8. It took him 18 years at Nova to even make the F4 for the first time. Do you honestly thing UK fans would have been that patient? Lol. He has 2 titles and 3 final 4’s in 22 years as the coach. Even you admit he has had talent and experience. Why hasn’t it helped more? Would you honestly be okay with those results and that timeline to achieve them? Not to mention, Jay Wright has missed the tournament 7 times in those 22 seasons. How well do you expect that to go over here? LMAO
The 2 teams left on your list are also bluebloods, and they were also both caught cheating. Maybe you want that kind of culture and accept that. I would not.
UNC has only made it past the Sw16 4 times in Cal’s tenure here. 2 of those resulted in F4 trips. 1 of those was gifted by a rogue ref. They also only have 1 title in that time to show for the cheating. Had the tournament been played last year, there is a very good chance UNC wouldn’t have been it. That would have marked the second time this decade they would have missed it. Even with all those JRs and SRs. How do you explain this? Would you be okay with those results and culture?
KU has 1 F4 the last 8 years and has been cheating their asses off. They have 1 championship in Self’s tenure and that was almost 13 years ago. Are you really going to be happy with UK if we posted the same results?
All of these teams had experience you said you wanted. Many of them had talent and experience. After looking at their results, please tell me which one you would want to switch with and that you honestly think would have made it at UK?
LMAO, what reaction did you expect from such idiotic logic? I would imagine you should be quite used to that response in life by now….
So, what are these major problems? We have one of the best/most consistent records in the country the last 5 years. Please enlighten us!!
What do you want it to be?
Are you sure about that? I want to see the numbers to back this up.
Who is going to read some damn essay of a post some of y’all put on here? It’s a message board, not a senior thesis class.
Expecting exact results from coach A at university B doesn’t mean the results will be duplicated or less at UK .... if we just cherry results would Brad Stevens ever got the Celtics job? That poor sap never won a title , ever . Only went to two final fours , he must suck.
some are 8th grade level , written by Rhodes scholars , in their minds .
Very sure. I provided the breakdowns off all the other top teams the last 5+ years, compare them to ours and it's pretty evident.
Lol, then look them up. Prove me wrong. It shouldn't be too hard if you are so sure....
Would you consider Stevens a very accomplished college coach? Would you put him in your college coaching HOF? I think Brad is a great coach and would take him if he ever decided to come back to college, but he hasn't exactly won much yet at any level. Celtics fans are actually disappointed thus far.
If a coach can't reach that level of success consistently in a much less stressful job with solid resources and support, what would be the basis for expecting them to do it at UK? If you look at our history, only 1 coach has had the level of success most of you are honestly expecting. He retired almost 50 years ago. Maybe it's the outlandish expectations that haven't been met since the 70's that are the problem.
I am going to break it down by 6, because we have only had 5 tournaments in 6 years due to last season.
We obviously know 2015 was 38-1, undefeated in SEC and won the SEC tournament with a F4.
Then, 27-9 overall and 13-5 SEC, with a Round of 32 finish and SEC regular and tournament champs.
Then, 32-5 overall, E8 finish 16-2 SEC regular season and SEC tournament champs.
Then, 26-11 overall, 10-8 SEC. SEC tournament champs. SW16 finish.
Then, 30-7 overall, 15-3 SEC. Tied for 2nd in the league. E8 finish.
Then, 25-6 overall, 15-3 SEC and won the SEC regular season. No tournaments.
Answering a question with a question is not worthy of my time. You want me to answer your questions, but deflect answering mine. You may now go sit in the dark with all the other morons with multiple names. Ignored.
Lol, what question of yours wasn't answered?
Sounds like you have just been backed into a corner due to your ignorant logic and lack of facts. Now you want to run away. Typical CDS sufferer.
I never asked you what their records were buddy, that wasn't the question at all and post 2015, you would easily take Villanova's results over ours. It's proven system that works.
Here's the other thing, Cal isn't the coach of any of those teams you listed. Y'all think I hate Cal, but that's not true, I hate losing all our players every year. Give Calipari a veteran team and he would be a staple in the final four.
There is no coach that motivates players better than Cal, there is nobody that squeezes more out of his players than Cal does and there's nobody that coaches point guards as well as Cal.
So like I said, I don't care about the records of those teams, I care about player retention.
give cal veterans and he catches UCLA and Rupp
That's what I've been saying for two years, but we have people that think I want Cal out of here. They don't actually read what is being posted.
You insinuated they were having these magical runs easily duplicated here. I provided the facts that your statements weren't accurate.
I would not, because I can easily look at the data and see it took 17-18 years to accomplish that. That included a lot of missed tourneys and early exits for them for that period of time.
It's a system that took 17-18 years to build. If you have that long, then by all means.
Cal had veteran teams his first year and the 2015 year. He still didn't make it. His two teams that made the championship games consisted of 1 upperclassmen. That was Miller on the 2012 team. So, again, that belief of how the team must be structured isn't accurate.
I am sure Cal would love for more to stay. How does he ethically accomplish that?
The ship just capsized and snapped in half
You still be optimistic when we are 2-10? Asking for a friend
The topic was never about results for those other programs, it was about player retention.
You keep asking how Cal is supposed to get these players to stay and I keep answering you the same way. There are 365 division 1 teams, out of those 365 teams, 363 operate like true college programs and usually, they have veteran rosters.
UK is one of 2 programs that caters to the NBA draft. Cal is on a first name basis with NBA team GM's and he works extremely hard to find teams that will take UK guys that aren't projected in the 1st round. How do you think Quickly and Richards got deals?
Now, if 363 teams can figure out a way to retain players, why can't a guy getting 10 million a year figure it out?
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CalCAN’T retain players, he isn’t selling these kids a career at UK, he is selling them come to UK for a year showcase your talents for 1 year and I’ll make you a millionaire. 1 year, if it doesn’t work out those that remain feel cheated and they realize that now they are saddled with the “ went to UK and not a one and done, what’s wrong with him” . Plus they know that next year a new crop will be coming to “ follow their dream” and Cal will have to play them because that’s what he’s selling. How long our fan base will tolerate a coach more concerned with putting kids in NBA than winning titles s debatable.I don’t think had this attitude when he first got here but he does now and besides since the Wisconsin loss I think he has decided it’s a hell of a lot easier to build a legacy on creating NBA players than it is winning titles.
Sure it was! You're so angry and jaded right now you can't keep your posts straight. Your statements have been predicated on how well these schools with experienced players have done. When you looks at their records, they really haven't done any better than us consistently. If you can prove otherwise, please do so.
Many of them have similar issues of players leaving early. The reason it happens at a higher rate here is because we recruit from the best players and generally get a lot of them. Great players want to play at the highest level. They want to get there as fast as possible. Literally, that is the point of college. Ger thru it as fast as possible and land your dream job.
Most of the players that aren't immediate impact players take time to develop. Did you not watch Allen throw the ball away 4 times in like 2 minutes tonight? He will need at least 2 years to be at all serviceable at this level. Are we just supposed to hold off on recruiting better players in that spot in the meantime? Should we avoid it since it might scare him into transferring? What is your plan?
They made the right choice and stuck around to develop. Quickly was damn good by the time he left. He can create, pass, defend and can score/shoot. Every NBA team wants that. Nick was a big who could shoot and block shots and ran the floor well. Again, not a hard sell to the NBA when he plays like he did last season.
Because most of the great players want to play for the coach who has more success. Is it really that hard to figure out? Do you want him to be less successful so only the project players come. Last I checked, SGA, Herro, Jackson and so on were all projects. How did that work out? So should we underdevelop them for a year or two now?
So you're saying none of these 363 other programs have players leave early or transfer out at a high rate? You sure about that? KU hasn't had a few leave early? Nova didn't just lose a couple early? UF hasn't had some transfer issues as of late? Washington hasn't been having some players leave early? Hasn't AU had some of these same struggles? I think even MSU and UNC have had some leave early the last few years!?! Hasn't Texas has a few guys bounce early in recent years? That doesn't seem like such an isolated thing.
Again, what would you do to fix it? And will you be okay with the years you obviously won't even be in contention at some point in the season? Because that is what all those programs you listed experience routinely while they build a serious 1 or 2 yr contender...
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