This is going to be a somewhat controversial topic but how many of you
- Thread starter dogeatdog
- Start date
Just stop making errors, giving up walks, and throwing balls past the catcher and it'll work itself out.
This team is still playing with its head up its ***.
This team is still playing with its head up its ***.
Cohen really screwed up when he shouted at Girodo from the dugout just as he was releasing the ball causing him to be wild**
This^
We will snap out of it. Hopefully today. Doesn't make me less pissed about last night, but it's still way too early to panic.
So, anotherwords, longing for the days of Ron Polk...
It goes down like this every single year on here. We go through a lull where a large percentage of the people on here criticize Cohen's every move when they seem to be backfiring due to losing a few games that we feel like we should win.
I didn't see many of these same people come back and own it when practically every one of those moves turned to gold in the SEC tournament last year(Patdog did -- the only one I recall) -- nor did they at Georgia Tech in 2011. But they were right back here bitching when we lost the regional last year -- and were over the top with the bitching when we went 2 and out in the SEC tournament in 2011. It's becoming clear that this is going to happen on here in practically every loss of John Cohen's tenure...
People need to chill out. Last night showed me that when we get our stuff together, we will be a better team than LSU. Just like I thought we were last year despite losing 2 of 3 down there with half our team out with injuries -- and then we saw them twice in the SEC tournament, where we put them in the loser's bracket and then sent them packing. We played terrible in this game -- and still had a chance to beat the #3 team in the country. We've still got 2 games to play and the fact that many on here are already defeated shows that the Ron Polk mindset is still alive and well. Our team certainly doesn't share the same mentality...
Yes, Cohen makes many lineup, pitching, and position decisions that are perplexing. No one denies that's happening. What eventually happens from all this experimenting? He ends up knowing the ins and outs of his team better than almost anyone else knows their teams and ideally ends up putting us in the best possible position to win in the postseason. This has already caused us to overachieve in the postseason twice -- and this team is much better than those two teams were.
It goes down like this every single year on here. We go through a lull where a large percentage of the people on here criticize Cohen's every move when they seem to be backfiring due to losing a few games that we feel like we should win.
I didn't see many of these same people come back and own it when practically every one of those moves turned to gold in the SEC tournament last year(Patdog did -- the only one I recall) -- nor did they at Georgia Tech in 2011. But they were right back here bitching when we lost the regional last year -- and were over the top with the bitching when we went 2 and out in the SEC tournament in 2011. It's becoming clear that this is going to happen on here in practically every loss of John Cohen's tenure...
People need to chill out. Last night showed me that when we get our stuff together, we will be a better team than LSU. Just like I thought we were last year despite losing 2 of 3 down there with half our team out with injuries -- and then we saw them twice in the SEC tournament, where we put them in the loser's bracket and then sent them packing. We played terrible in this game -- and still had a chance to beat the #3 team in the country. We've still got 2 games to play and the fact that many on here are already defeated shows that the Ron Polk mindset is still alive and well. Our team certainly doesn't share the same mentality...
Yes, Cohen makes many lineup, pitching, and position decisions that are perplexing. No one denies that's happening. What eventually happens from all this experimenting? He ends up knowing the ins and outs of his team better than almost anyone else knows their teams and ideally ends up putting us in the best possible position to win in the postseason. This has already caused us to overachieve in the postseason twice -- and this team is much better than those two teams were.
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I hope you are right. Beating yourself is always the worst way to lose. The reaction of frustration by the board was warranted last night. Just stupid boneheaded play.
"in other words" works better ....
And yes, I think you're right. LSU will probably go through a slump too at some point during the year. In baseball, you just don't win every game. Our team will be just fine.
If he would just stop playing Frost at 3rd base then I could live with most of the rest of it. That's an experiment that's been proven a failure over and over but Cohen keeps doing it.
It's never warranted over one game in baseball. That kind of stuff happens -- even at all the professional levels. This is why all the "baseball fans" are far more even keel than those that are "MSU fans" trying to approach baseball they same way they do college football without ever bothering understanding the nuances of the game.
MISSISSIPPI COLLEGE . . . . . 9-1. . . .W
WILLIAM CAREY . . . . . . . . . . . 10-0 . . .W
LIVINGSTON . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26-4 . . .W
at South Alabama . . . . . . . . . . 4-1. . . .W
at South Alabama . . . . . . . . . . 2-1. . . .W
SOUTHEASTERN LA. . . . . . . . 3-2. . . .W
SOUTHEASTERN LA. . . . . . . . 4-2. . . .W
UNION . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19-2 . . .W
* AUBURN . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4-1. . . .W
* AUBURN . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3-2. . . .W
* AUBURN . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14-0 . . .W
at Birmingham-Southern . . . . . 10-2 . . .W
at Birmingham-Southern . . . . . 18-9 . . .W
* at Louisiana State . . . . . . . . . . 7-0. . . .W
* at Louisiana State . . . . . . . . . . 6-9. . . . . . L
* at Louisiana State . . . . . . . . . . 4-7. . . . . . L
NEW ORLEANS . . . . . . . . . . . 4-10 . . . . . L
NEW ORLEANS . . . . . . . . . . . 7-6. . . .W
at Livingston . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5-0. . . .W
* ALABAMA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4-7. . . . . . L
* ALABAMA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17-10. . .W
* ALABAMA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11-5 . . .W
at Delta State . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6-4. . . .W
at Delta State . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14-8 . . .W
* at Mississippi . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4-0. . . .W
* at Mississippi . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10-2 . . .W
* at Mississippi . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7-12 . . . . . L
ARKANSAS STATE . . . . . . . . . 13-4 . . .W
ARKANSAS STATE . . . . . . . . . 12-5 . . .W
at Hawaii-Hilo . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7-2. . . .W
at Hawaii-Hilo . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2-0. . . .W
at Hawaii-Hilo . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7-1. . . .W
at Hawaii . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8-1. . . .W
at Hawaii . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3-4. . . . . . L
* at Auburn . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2-3. . . . . . L
* at Auburn . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1-3. . . . . . L
* at Auburn . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1-8. . . . . . L
Miss. College(Jackson, Miss.) . . . . 5-7. . . . . . L
JACKSON STATE . . . . . . . . . . 9-3. . . .W
JACKSON STATE . . . . . . . . . . 18-7 . . .W
* LOUISIANA STATE . . . . . . . . . 6-1. . . .W
* LOUISIANA STATE . . . . . . . . . 6-5. . . .W
* LOUISIANA STATE . . . . . . . . . 7-4. . . .W
vs. Mississippi (Jackson, Miss.) . . . . . 5-2. . . .W
at Southern Miss . . . . . . . . . . . 11-4 . . .W
at Southern Miss . . . . . . . . . . . 3-0. . . .W
* at Alabama . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5-6. . . . . . L
* at Alabama . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14-4 . . .W
* at Alabama . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6-4. . . .W
vs. Arkansas (Greenville, Miss.). . . . . .16-2 . . .W
vs. Arkansas (Little Rock, Ark.) . . . . . .1-13 . . . . . L
* MISSISSIPPI . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6-5. . . .W
* MISSISSIPPI . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4-1. . . .W
* MISSISSIPPI . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4-3. . . .W
# Florida . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8-3. . . .W
# Georgia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2-0. . . .W
# Georgia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8-3. . . .W
! WEST VIRGINIA . . . . . . . . . . . 10-1 . . .W
! NEW ORLEANS . . . . . . . . . . . 8-4. . . .W
! MICHIGAN . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6-14 . . . . . L
! MICHIGAN . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19-8 . . .W .
$ vs. Oklahoma State . . . . . . . . . 12-3 . . .W
$ vs. Arkansas . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5-4. . . .W
$ vs. Texas . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7-12 . . . . . L
$ vs. Miami (Fla.) . . . . . . . . . . . . 5-6. . . . . . L
Know what this shows? The best MSU team in history and one of the best overall in NCAA history to not win a championship -- This is the 1985 team schedule. We also lost 2 of 3 in Baton Rouge and got swept in Auburn -- and still won the SEC regular season, SEC tournament, Starkville regional, and were a freak injury away from probably winning the CWS.
MISSISSIPPI COLLEGE . . . . . 9-1. . . .W
WILLIAM CAREY . . . . . . . . . . . 10-0 . . .W
LIVINGSTON . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26-4 . . .W
at South Alabama . . . . . . . . . . 4-1. . . .W
at South Alabama . . . . . . . . . . 2-1. . . .W
SOUTHEASTERN LA. . . . . . . . 3-2. . . .W
SOUTHEASTERN LA. . . . . . . . 4-2. . . .W
UNION . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19-2 . . .W
* AUBURN . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4-1. . . .W
* AUBURN . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3-2. . . .W
* AUBURN . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14-0 . . .W
at Birmingham-Southern . . . . . 10-2 . . .W
at Birmingham-Southern . . . . . 18-9 . . .W
* at Louisiana State . . . . . . . . . . 7-0. . . .W
* at Louisiana State . . . . . . . . . . 6-9. . . . . . L
* at Louisiana State . . . . . . . . . . 4-7. . . . . . L
NEW ORLEANS . . . . . . . . . . . 4-10 . . . . . L
NEW ORLEANS . . . . . . . . . . . 7-6. . . .W
at Livingston . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5-0. . . .W
* ALABAMA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4-7. . . . . . L
* ALABAMA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17-10. . .W
* ALABAMA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11-5 . . .W
at Delta State . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6-4. . . .W
at Delta State . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14-8 . . .W
* at Mississippi . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4-0. . . .W
* at Mississippi . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10-2 . . .W
* at Mississippi . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7-12 . . . . . L
ARKANSAS STATE . . . . . . . . . 13-4 . . .W
ARKANSAS STATE . . . . . . . . . 12-5 . . .W
at Hawaii-Hilo . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7-2. . . .W
at Hawaii-Hilo . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2-0. . . .W
at Hawaii-Hilo . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7-1. . . .W
at Hawaii . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8-1. . . .W
at Hawaii . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3-4. . . . . . L
* at Auburn . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2-3. . . . . . L
* at Auburn . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1-3. . . . . . L
* at Auburn . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1-8. . . . . . L
Miss. College(Jackson, Miss.) . . . . 5-7. . . . . . L
JACKSON STATE . . . . . . . . . . 9-3. . . .W
JACKSON STATE . . . . . . . . . . 18-7 . . .W
* LOUISIANA STATE . . . . . . . . . 6-1. . . .W
* LOUISIANA STATE . . . . . . . . . 6-5. . . .W
* LOUISIANA STATE . . . . . . . . . 7-4. . . .W
vs. Mississippi (Jackson, Miss.) . . . . . 5-2. . . .W
at Southern Miss . . . . . . . . . . . 11-4 . . .W
at Southern Miss . . . . . . . . . . . 3-0. . . .W
* at Alabama . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5-6. . . . . . L
* at Alabama . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14-4 . . .W
* at Alabama . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6-4. . . .W
vs. Arkansas (Greenville, Miss.). . . . . .16-2 . . .W
vs. Arkansas (Little Rock, Ark.) . . . . . .1-13 . . . . . L
* MISSISSIPPI . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6-5. . . .W
* MISSISSIPPI . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4-1. . . .W
* MISSISSIPPI . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4-3. . . .W
# Florida . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8-3. . . .W
# Georgia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2-0. . . .W
# Georgia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8-3. . . .W
! WEST VIRGINIA . . . . . . . . . . . 10-1 . . .W
! NEW ORLEANS . . . . . . . . . . . 8-4. . . .W
! MICHIGAN . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6-14 . . . . . L
! MICHIGAN . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19-8 . . .W .
$ vs. Oklahoma State . . . . . . . . . 12-3 . . .W
$ vs. Arkansas . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5-4. . . .W
$ vs. Texas . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7-12 . . . . . L
$ vs. Miami (Fla.) . . . . . . . . . . . . 5-6. . . . . . L
Know what this shows? The best MSU team in history and one of the best overall in NCAA history to not win a championship -- This is the 1985 team schedule. We also lost 2 of 3 in Baton Rouge and got swept in Auburn -- and still won the SEC regular season, SEC tournament, Starkville regional, and were a freak injury away from probably winning the CWS.
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Agreed on this one. That's something that I do not understand on any level whatsoever.
I'm of the school of thought that 95% of the game (in just about any sport) is won or lost prior to the game even starting. If you have players that screw up fielding, take strikeouts looking, and can't place their pitches during practice, you're going to probably lose unless you're playing against a worse team. The emphasis of coaching should be mostly on practice and development and less on game strategy. Sure there is strategy, but even that should be defined ahead of time (e.g. scouting).
I think Cohen does over-analyze situations and make way too many adjustments in-game that do not need to be made. It seems like a lot of time he doesn't do the basic coaching (e.g. pulling players whose performance has dropped below that of a replacement player) that really should be expected.
All that said, I think he is a fine coach.
I think Cohen does over-analyze situations and make way too many adjustments in-game that do not need to be made. It seems like a lot of time he doesn't do the basic coaching (e.g. pulling players whose performance has dropped below that of a replacement player) that really should be expected.
All that said, I think he is a fine coach.
I understand what you are saying but this is an MSU message board. We all know its takes quite a chest to be a State fan.
These variables come into play.....our poor finish in football, decimated snake-bit basketball team, good start in baseball to just continue to have stupid mistakes. It's a cumulative frustration.
I also agree with you. I won't lie last nights loss pissed me off. But I'm not about to throw the baby out with the bath water. It's time we finish against good teams though. Tonight would be a good start. I will be tuned in.
These variables come into play.....our poor finish in football, decimated snake-bit basketball team, good start in baseball to just continue to have stupid mistakes. It's a cumulative frustration.
I also agree with you. I won't lie last nights loss pissed me off. But I'm not about to throw the baby out with the bath water. It's time we finish against good teams though. Tonight would be a good start. I will be tuned in.
I could sort of understand it last year when Frost would enter late as a defensive replacement for Norris, but only because I was under the impression Norris was hurt in some way (that apparently did not bother him in innings 1-6). But starting him at third when he's proven to be a defensive liability.....I don't get.
I am a big believer that in baseball you have get into a rhythm. You do not do that going to the park every day wondering if your name is in the lineup. It also causes you to play extremely tight. You play not to mess up in fear you will get pulled.
For every person negatively effected by this pressure, there is another one that responds very positively to it. Our team is built on guys that Cohen thought responded positively to adversity, hence why he recruited them.
To even present such a "timid" approach as a universal truth is shortsighted...at best...
On the bright side I didn't see any baserunning blunders last night. Gotta take positives where we can find them.
I didn't like it last year but Norris was hurt with the bad knee the last part of the year and, to be blount, we just didn't have many other options. But this year, we added Pirtle, Detz, Hann and Flair as infielders plus Britton is a year older. I still think we should be playing Norris over there but even if you don't want to are you telling me out of ALL of those guys at third base Frost is the best option? A guy that has proven over and over and over again he is going to bounce at least every other throw from third to first. And now apparently he is even going to start bouncing them from third to second.
