as far as hoping there would be some type of assistant changes. We were so close to making it that it's more difficult to justify making a change.
This is the worst thing that could have happened...
- Thread starter dawgstudent
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as far as hoping there would be some type of assistant changes. We were so close to making it that it's more difficult to justify making a change.
he is going to do what he wants anyway
Improving the SOS is the way to go with it- he starts beating better teams to get us solidly in, or we are solidly out of it at the end- as we have been 4 of the last 5 seasons- needing to win the Tourney to get a berth
Improving the SOS is the way to go with it- he starts beating better teams to get us solidly in, or we are solidly out of it at the end- as we have been 4 of the last 5 seasons- needing to win the Tourney to get a berth
What irritates me is that if I based my opinion of our coaching staff on just the 3 games in the SEC tournament, I'd give them an B+ or an A-. I wouldn't want to see any changes. We looked like a different team during this tournament. We had great defensive game plans and an offense that didn't rely on 3 pointers. We held our own in the paint despite virtually having to rely in one man to do it. We set effective screens and got plenty of cheap buckets. We weren't struggling to get open shots at all. I saw quality coaching during the tournament and it put us in a position to win the tournament.
Where was this smart play the rest of the year? Rick is a f'ing mystery to me.
Where was this smart play the rest of the year? Rick is a f'ing mystery to me.
Is "making it" completing a miraculous three day run through the SEC tournament to secure another 13 seed and another first round loss? Oh wait, we would be in the tournament, and I think that IS your definition of making it. So I guess we could go 0-27 and win the SECT and you would be happy.
To me making it is competing throughout the season and not being on the bubble like we found ourselves in 05 (9 seed) , 08 (8 seed) , 09 (13 seed) , and 10 (NIT seed).
To me making it is competing throughout the season and not being on the bubble like we found ourselves in 05 (9 seed) , 08 (8 seed) , 09 (13 seed) , and 10 (NIT seed).
We need to schedule enough good teams to get off the bubble. If you schedule like we did you don't leave any room for loses. Losing to Michigan St. would have been as good as beating Rider but losing to Rider screws you.
We were on the bubble before the SEC Tourney so don't act like we just sucked in the regular season. Ridiculous.
replace the three bad OOC losses with better teams and at least our SOS would go up. plus we may win one or two of the harder OOC games and then we are in business. but playing the absolutely terrible OOC schedule doesn't help us much and hurts us badly if we lose. actually.....this is the "we shouldn't play USM in football" argument too. doesn't help but can really hurt.
Byrne can not do anything, except make a few suggestions and work on improving our OOC SOS. We are stuck for at least two more years. Sidney will be an all-American next year and carry us to an NCAA tourney berth, securing !@#%#!%*@$+'s job for another 3 years. He signs 4 ballers of the Mississippi class of 2011 and we start all over. We live and die by the recruiter and the 3 ball.
Coming off of two losses to Auburn and UT, with only one top 50 win and that against a no-name team in Old Dominion, the only people who still had us on the bubble heading to Nashville were the most optimistic of our fans. Very few if any national media did. The win over Florida got us back into the conversation somewhat, but still not in, and the win over Vandy finally got us to at least the point of strongly considered, but it was too little too late.
Had some of that been reversed, and we beat UF and Vandy in the regular season, we would have been on the bubble going in, likely even on the right side of it, and we might have even been able to withstand a loss to Florida on Friday night and still gotten in. Certainly with those two wins in the regular season AND one in the SECT, we would have been in even with all the bad losses and the weak SOS.
We don't suck in the regular season, but there is no question that we consistently fail to capitalize on opportunities now like some Stansbury teams have in the past. He seems to have become so much more of a play not to lose coach than a play to win coach, and it bites him frequently.
Had some of that been reversed, and we beat UF and Vandy in the regular season, we would have been on the bubble going in, likely even on the right side of it, and we might have even been able to withstand a loss to Florida on Friday night and still gotten in. Certainly with those two wins in the regular season AND one in the SECT, we would have been in even with all the bad losses and the weak SOS.
We don't suck in the regular season, but there is no question that we consistently fail to capitalize on opportunities now like some Stansbury teams have in the past. He seems to have become so much more of a play not to lose coach than a play to win coach, and it bites him frequently.
We were in before playing Auburn and Tennessee and we were 6th out before we played Florida on Friday.
We were in before playing Rider too if you want to go that far back. We had our chances to beat Auburn and UT and did not, effectively ending our at large hopes.
Being sixth out before the SEC tourney is not really even on the bubble. Of course there is no way to track this, but I would wager that no team "sixth out" by Lunardi going into conference tournaments has ever, ever gotten an at large bid. Unless of course it is Minnesota this year.
Being sixth out before the SEC tourney is not really even on the bubble. Of course there is no way to track this, but I would wager that no team "sixth out" by Lunardi going into conference tournaments has ever, ever gotten an at large bid. Unless of course it is Minnesota this year.
the key is Rick getting this team to treat Nov and Dec just like it is march and to schedule better. Ole Miss was clearly an average team all year. They didn't beat anyone inside the top 90 after Dec. 16. Yet they were a game away from the NCAA tourney b/c of 2 games in December. That's how big those months are. Rick has to get this team focused and playing with intensity early.
It's common sense. You play difficult teams, you are allowed to lose more. You play "cupcakes" and you can't lose. And even if you management to get through your cupcakes unscathed, you still have a ****** SOS that can be used against you.
Seeing that the parity in basketball is high and cupcakes can knock off solid teams, loading up your non-conference schedule with crappy teams is just asking to put yourself in positions where we must dominate in SEC play. Seeing that UK is back, and we can always count on UT, UF, and Vandy to field solid teams, domination is not likely at all as it was for most of the 2000s. Plus, the West teams are going to continue be the red-headed step children of the SEC. The committee already gives us a minus for merely being in the West (Exh A: UF in/MSU out), why stack the odds against us and give them more ammo to fire away with come selection time?
Byrne, beef up the schedule. Go on the road, if necessary. I don't care. We need a solid SOS.
Seeing that the parity in basketball is high and cupcakes can knock off solid teams, loading up your non-conference schedule with crappy teams is just asking to put yourself in positions where we must dominate in SEC play. Seeing that UK is back, and we can always count on UT, UF, and Vandy to field solid teams, domination is not likely at all as it was for most of the 2000s. Plus, the West teams are going to continue be the red-headed step children of the SEC. The committee already gives us a minus for merely being in the West (Exh A: UF in/MSU out), why stack the odds against us and give them more ammo to fire away with come selection time?
Byrne, beef up the schedule. Go on the road, if necessary. I don't care. We need a solid SOS.
...1) We were not prepared going into the season. The damning quote is that we hadn't worked on our offense against the 2-3 zone before the Rider game and so we didn't know what to do when we faced a 2-3 zone. Whose fault is that, coach? How can a coach not be prepared to play in game 1? And we are always tinkering with our lineups in the early season. There is always some kind of drama going on. The early season is ridiculous and falls squarely on his shoulders.
2) Stansbury's formula to win seems to be to rely on athletic ability, defense, and rebounding, along with getting his team up for the big games. He can't seem to coach his way out of a loss to Western Kentucky. You have to be able to win sometimes when you are better talent-wise, but the other team is giving you a better effort. We haven't done that these last few years. Figure out how to stop a hot shooting team, or figure out how to get somebody open in a tight spot. This is what other coaches can do. We gut up and play with great heart against Kentucky, but lay an egg against Arkansas on the road. Your coach has to get you through that with x's and o's. This is where some new assistants would help out if Stans will let them coach.
2) Stansbury's formula to win seems to be to rely on athletic ability, defense, and rebounding, along with getting his team up for the big games. He can't seem to coach his way out of a loss to Western Kentucky. You have to be able to win sometimes when you are better talent-wise, but the other team is giving you a better effort. We haven't done that these last few years. Figure out how to stop a hot shooting team, or figure out how to get somebody open in a tight spot. This is what other coaches can do. We gut up and play with great heart against Kentucky, but lay an egg against Arkansas on the road. Your coach has to get you through that with x's and o's. This is where some new assistants would help out if Stans will let them coach.
ckDOG said:
Agree..particularly on Rick. Teams routinely get down or play to the level of a weaker opponent but our coaching staff seems to do the same thing. Then out of nowhere they pull out these miraculous game plans on a stage such as Kentucky at home and the SEC tournament. I don't get it.
that I would be happy with 0-27 and winning hte SEC Tournament. So I can be just as ridiculous.
And hell yeah, the calendar matters. We are all in the BCS national championship game in August.
Stansbury is going to frustrate the hell out of me every year but at the same time, as long as he makes the tourney, I am happy. And we didn't this year so to me, he gets one more year. And I was hoping for something different with the staff but as my initial post alluded to, I think our run in the SEC tourney makes it a more difficult decision.
And hell yeah, the calendar matters. We are all in the BCS national championship game in August.
Stansbury is going to frustrate the hell out of me every year but at the same time, as long as he makes the tourney, I am happy. And we didn't this year so to me, he gets one more year. And I was hoping for something different with the staff but as my initial post alluded to, I think our run in the SEC tourney makes it a more difficult decision.
But I would take the middle part of the Big 12, or the middle of the ACC (sans Duke and UNC). Or basically anyone in the Missouri Valley. Even more games like Wright State who ended the year as RPI 80.
i was responding to DS suggesting that we needed some asst. coach changes. i don't think stans is going anywhere but i also don't think that our run in the SEC tournament makes it better for his assistants when thinking that we need a change. my comment that we could totally dominate in the NIT to change that perception though for byrne and company.
Without a doubt, our out of conference play hurt us this season. We lost some bad games, and we played a weak schedule. With that being said, when the west is as weak has it has been the last few years, that gives us little margin for error. No matter how weak, the league is, we are going to lay a few eggs in conference play-see Kentucky-South Carolina. We need the west to be better. Since Rick has been here, there have been times when the West had several strong teams (at times State, UM, LSU, Bama, Arkansas). If the west is better, we get more opportunities at good wins. That alone helps the resume. This isn't to say that we should leave our out of conference schedule the same, but it would be a great help to State if the west was better.
UM returns everyone and should be the clear front runner depending on Sydney's suspension.
Alabama and LSU lose their major scoring threats in Torrance and Mitchell, respectively.
Arkansas only loses Washington and Welsh.
Between those three, I'd give Arkansas the edge in talent, but Pelphrey hardly seems the coach to successfully harness what he has. LSU has the best class coming in, but they're so bad right now that I can't see them making a leap to NCAA contender. Grant might be able to get more out of Bama in year 2 of his system.
With almost the whole team graduating, Auburn will be this year's LSU.
Overall, slight upgrade. Probably not enough to make a huge SOS impact. On the East side, UT loses Prince and Chism, South Carolina loses the only guy that matters plus another, UGA only loses a guard, Vandy loses Beal, and hopefully UK is gutted by the NBA draft. I don't think the East will be nearly as strong unless several freshmen perform out of the gate for several teams, so I'd definitely say we don't need to schedule another 2009-esque slate of patsies.
Alabama and LSU lose their major scoring threats in Torrance and Mitchell, respectively.
Arkansas only loses Washington and Welsh.
Between those three, I'd give Arkansas the edge in talent, but Pelphrey hardly seems the coach to successfully harness what he has. LSU has the best class coming in, but they're so bad right now that I can't see them making a leap to NCAA contender. Grant might be able to get more out of Bama in year 2 of his system.
With almost the whole team graduating, Auburn will be this year's LSU.
Overall, slight upgrade. Probably not enough to make a huge SOS impact. On the East side, UT loses Prince and Chism, South Carolina loses the only guy that matters plus another, UGA only loses a guard, Vandy loses Beal, and hopefully UK is gutted by the NBA draft. I don't think the East will be nearly as strong unless several freshmen perform out of the gate for several teams, so I'd definitely say we don't need to schedule another 2009-esque slate of patsies.
Here's the other problem with that quote, Downtown, and it is a thought that just occurred to me for the first time last night. Randy, JV, Ravern, Phil, Kodi, and Benock have all been here 3-4 years. Bost & Osby have been here 2 years. Does Rick really expect me to believe so many Senior, Junior, and Sophomore players don't know how to effectively attack a 2-3 zone in his scheme? I mean, do they have to start over from scratch like 17ing Freshmens every season? I find that very difficult to believe. Yeah, I'm sure there's some tweaking each year, but surely the basics remain the same. Hell, it's not like his Motion(less) Offense is that complicated, as was pointed out repeatedly this weekend. With so much experience back, how did we NOT know what to do? Seems to me that all falls on 3 men - Stands, Kirby, and Cunningham. I mean, what the hell is practice? A damn shootaround?DowntownDawg said:
I never thought of that either. Also, I think you have to put some blame on the players too... like you said, did they forget everything they learned the last few years?
Last year we were out UNTIL we won it. This year we were out UNLESS we won it. The difference in those two results is literally a tenth of a second. That's an awful thin line of demarcation. I realize 0-27 and winning the SECT is ridiculous, but if your definition of success is defined solely by making the tournament as you have repeatedly said, then it doesn't matter how.
I'll give you mine. I expect to make the NCAAs as an at large at least seven out of every 12 years (Rick's tenure). I rarely expect to win the SEC tournament, but I'll take it whenever I can get it. Of those seven NCAA trips, I expect to win two games in a tournament once every six years. Personally I think the best way to do this is be seeded 7 or better, but if we advance from the 12/13 hole, I'll take it. I never, ever expect us to go beyond the SS, but would gladly take it at any time. The other five years I would look for at least 2-3 NIT bids. I can stomach a couple of rebuilding years if they are balanced by that moderate level of national success. That's 7-2-3 (NCAA-Sweet 16-NIT) for my expectations. Rick is at 6-0-4. So he's not THAT far off, but I question whether we can get there. Maybe I am aiming too high. When I look at recent history, those numbers would put us somewhere between the West Virginia
numbers and the Pitt/Maryland/Oklahoma State numbers Scooba posted last year without the additional tourney games
won by those teams. I just think that is attainable, even for poor ol "we are MSU."
I'll give you mine. I expect to make the NCAAs as an at large at least seven out of every 12 years (Rick's tenure). I rarely expect to win the SEC tournament, but I'll take it whenever I can get it. Of those seven NCAA trips, I expect to win two games in a tournament once every six years. Personally I think the best way to do this is be seeded 7 or better, but if we advance from the 12/13 hole, I'll take it. I never, ever expect us to go beyond the SS, but would gladly take it at any time. The other five years I would look for at least 2-3 NIT bids. I can stomach a couple of rebuilding years if they are balanced by that moderate level of national success. That's 7-2-3 (NCAA-Sweet 16-NIT) for my expectations. Rick is at 6-0-4. So he's not THAT far off, but I question whether we can get there. Maybe I am aiming too high. When I look at recent history, those numbers would put us somewhere between the West Virginia
numbers and the Pitt/Maryland/Oklahoma State numbers Scooba posted last year without the additional tourney games
won by those teams. I just think that is attainable, even for poor ol "we are MSU."
Tourney appearance is my cut-off. Go 60% of the time. We are at 40%. Not acceptable. Next year is do or die for me.
Is our free throw shooting was actually a little better this season. Not much, but a little. And we still sucked at it.
the conference tourneys start means you are 6th out if EVERYTHING goes according to plan and only teams ahead of you in the NCAA selection process win their tournaments. Teams like Houston and New Mexico State winning ended up pushing us even further down.