This team looks so much more confident when playing aggressively

[WutheringDawg]

props to the coaches or Robson on stealing home during the pick off to first.


suicide squeezing with ammo and Rea on third.


I know these moves end up hurting sometimes- CT missing 50 hit and run attempts this year alone. But this team seems to work better in motion as apposed to trying to play station to station.

 

[Will James]

Gotta get to the stations before that can be done.

 

[engie]

Exactly...

 

[Will James]

Exactly...

You act like I just want to go station to station and never do anything else just hit. Completely the opposite. I like the shenanigans that we do BESIDES giving away outs. Todd always says "We have to be aggressive like hit and running, stealing, and yes ****ing"

Just take the sac ****ing one man over out of the equation and we're hunky dory. Oh and the stealing 3rd with 2 outs. That is dumb as **** too.

 

[CadaverDawg]

You act like I just want to go station to station and never do anything else just hit. Completely the opposite. I like the shenanigans that we do BESIDES giving away outs. Todd always says "We have to be aggressive like hit and running, stealing, and yes ****ing"

Just take the sac ****ing one man over out of the equation and we're hunky dory. Oh and the stealing 3rd with 2 outs. That is dumb as **** too.

Can I add stealing second with Detz on a 3-1 count to Rea, to the dumb as **** category. Rea walked the next pitch after Detz was thrown out, and then Porter hit the bomb. Shoulda been a 3 run jack, but we completely tried to bail them out of a jam by getting Detz hosed on a hitters' pitch.

 

[GOOD_DAWG2.0]

You act like I just want to go station to station and never do anything else just hit. Completely the opposite. I like the shenanigans that we do BESIDES giving away outs. Todd always says "We have to be aggressive like hit and running, stealing, and yes ****ing"

Just take the sac ****ing one man over out of the equation and we're hunky dory. Oh and the stealing 3rd with 2 outs. That is dumb as **** too.

Hey, Will: shut up.

ETA WutheringDawg is right

 

[Todd4State]

What you don't get

You act like I just want to go station to station and never do anything else just hit. Completely the opposite. I like the shenanigans that we do BESIDES giving away outs. Todd always says "We have to be aggressive like hit and running, stealing, and yes ****ing"

Just take the sac ****ing one man over out of the equation and we're hunky dory. Oh and the stealing 3rd with 2 outs. That is dumb as **** too.

Is that ****ing is part of being aggressive and small ball- but it's different types- like drag ****ing and using squeeze plays. Saying you want to be aggressive just without ****ing is like saying you want to run the spread option without running any option. You need to do it some because if you don't- you are taking away some of your effectiveness.

You see some stat that says "sacrifice ****ing is bad" and you assume that ALL ****ing is bad- when the objective of drag ****ing is actually to **** for a hit and using a squeeze play is to try to get a run home- which is totally different that sacrifice ****ing.

 

[Will James]

Is that ****ing is part of being aggressive and small ball- but it's different types- like drag ****ing and using squeeze plays. Saying you want to be aggressive just without ****ing is like saying you want to run the spread option without running any option. You need to do it some because if you don't- you are taking away some of your effectiveness.

You see some stat that says "sacrifice ****ing is bad" and you assume that ALL ****ing is bad- when the objective of drag ****ing is actually to **** for a hit and using a squeeze play is to try to get a run home- which is totally different that sacrifice ****ing.

Again you are willfully ignorant of my position. I have spelled it out specifically for you time and time again. If you can provide my post saying "All ****ing is bad" I would appreciate it. You an Engie putting words in my mouth.... **** gets old. Literally in my post IN THIS THREAD I said get rid of the sac ****ing one man over. How you take that as me saying no ****ing of any kind shows you are oblivious.

 

[Todd4State]

That's the downside to being aggressive

Can I add stealing second with Detz on a 3-1 count to Rea, to the dumb as **** category. Rea walked the next pitch after Detz was thrown out, and then Porter hit the bomb. Shoulda been a 3 run jack, but we completely tried to bail them out of a jam by getting Detz hosed on a hitters' pitch.

Sometimes you are going to get burned. All you can do is pick your spots and try to be as smart about it as you can be- and you have to be willing to face the piper or press when something doesn't go right, and sometimes you have to face the piper when something does go right- like stealing third with two outs. It's not a style without risk, but when it works it has some pretty good rewards. I think the main thing is to know your opponent- who has a weak arm in the outfield we can run on? How good is their catcher? Etc.

Personally, I think it's a style that works pretty well with college because you are dealing with amateur players that are still learning to a degree or have major flaws in their game that can be exploited. It also is easier to recruit to in my opinion because everyone wants the big time power hitters and there are only so many out there plus it fits the style that most high schools play in Mississippi- it kind of has that football mentality to a degree.

It's more difficult to play this style in MLB because it's hard to sneak anything past those guys- but it can be done. Tony LaRussa did it for years and had great success.

 

[engie]

You an Engie putting words in my mouth.... **** gets old.

You mean... the positions that you actually endorse -- or in the very least run your mouth and spout out -- until we publicly slaughter them -- at which point you denounce having ever said it despite there being direct, exact evidence?

You know what gets old? Seeing you try to call everyone on here out that disagrees with you(which is literally everyone here most of the time) when you actually don't know or understand jack **** about complex nuances of the game. It would be tolerable if the points you were making were actually good ones -- but they generally aren't.

 

[Will James]

Funny how every single time I've asked for u to find where I said something you can't. Slaughter my arguments? Hahaha Just like you "destroyed my argument" about Renfroe batting cleanup because according to you Engie Rea would provide a higher slugging % this year. I called that absurd, which it is so I guess I destroyed you in that topic.

Should I go back and post all your quotes agreeing with me on the **** topic? It's funny to see you lose an argument because instead of writing essays you start to make up **** other people "said"

 

[engie]

Funny how every single time I've asked for u to find where I said something you can't. Slaughter my arguments? Hahaha Just like you "destroyed my argument" about Renfroe batting cleanup because according to you Engie Rea would provide a higher slugging % this year. I called that absurd, which it is so I guess I destroyed you in that topic.

Should I go back and post all your quotes agreeing with me on the **** topic? It's funny to see you lose an argument because instead of writing essays you start to make up **** other people "said"

What argument did I lose again? Feel free to link it...What did you ask me to find that I can't? That you constantly move the goalposts in your positions when they are scrutinized? That is easy to find -- and I'll be happy to -- if you'd like?

YOU are the one saying that your way is "100% efficient baseball" -- and basically calling everyone else's method stupid -- Despite not being able to produce a shred of actual evidence that your way is any better than ANYONE else's. Yes, yes you have. Do I need to link it?

You said that you want the best slugging percentage in the 4-hole WHILE calling everyone else stupid -- which was stupid in it's own right because over 70 games, that was Rea. You backtracked after being called on it to "slugging and on base". You said "I said Rea would provide a higher slugging this year?" Good luck finding that. What I actually said was that he'd provided the higher slugging over the past 70+- games of their career -- so in your infinite genius if you are "putting the highest slugging 4th" that was Rea. Yeah, I think you could safely make the Renfroe move now -- but you certainly couldn't at the time that you were making the argument. Basically, your arguments are hollow -- and never stand up to scrutiny. Hence why you are constantly modifying them when pressured.

If you would say "I like it this way", no one would care. When you say "this is the best way" and call other posters stupid in the process, I am going to continue to rip them apart when I see things you post that are absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Will James]

You said that you want the best slugging percentage in the 4-hole WHILE calling everyone else stupid

Let's go back to the forum to cut through your ********, yet again. Here are my quotes.... in the order they were posted.

My best hitter will always lead off, my best hitter with power will always bat cleanup.Best hitter with power. Rea, Renfroe, and Porter have power. Renfroe is the best hitter of those. He hit's 4th.

Position order with the highest batting average - Cleanup .275
Position order with the highest slugging average- Cleanup .463 Again, did I say your best slugger hits 4th? No. This was showing that the best hitters with power hit 4th in the AL.

In the other thread.. Let's take a look.


Engie: Yet, Renfroe has never led us in slugging -- and he likely won't this year either Based off of my AL stat of best sluggers AND hitters. This is where you begin to claim I want just the best slugger in the 4 hole, not the best hitter with power which has obviously been my position all along. This isn't an election Engie, you dont have to misinform the public. You got Cad to cheerlead for you, congrats!

Engie: So, Renfroe should be the 5-hole hitter in "Will James 100% optimized baseball" then... since he's our #2 slugging guy. Or are you talking in circles and arguing against yourself again? Again with the Rea will outslug Renfroe. Dumb

Will James: ATTENTION! Let's all remember the day where Engie claimed Rea will out slug Renfroe. Bookmark
Engie: Bookmark it Rea has ALWAYS outslugged Renfroe. Fact. That's all we have at our disposal in this assessment. Anyone who 16 games into the season still thought Rea would outslug Renfroe is a joke.

Goat: Seriously, Renfroe is gearing up to be a 1st rounder, and these guys are acting like Rea is a more dangerous hitter than Renfroe.
Goat: That doesn't make Will James wrong. I personally like the idea of Frazier, Bradford, Detz and Renfroe myself. It is probably the best lineup for this team at this point.

Engie: Again -- ignoring Rea

Will James: Leaving him out? Do you lack that much logic? He needs to hit 5th. Nobody's leaving him out. He is worthless in the Detz-Renfroe 3-4 debate.

Engie: So, you put BY FAR your best RBI producer in the 5-hole (talking about Rea) Renfroe is currently 2nd the the SEC in RBI. Again Engie, genius.

Engie: I'm destroying you. Your go to line when beat.

Will James: Destroying me by saying Rea is more feared that Renfroe this season? Thats a joke

Engie: You said the bestslugging guy hits 4th. I showed you Rea is the best slugging guy on the team. You've been in spin mode ever since. Annnnnnnd here we go back to misquoting my position

Will James: Best hitter with power hits 4th

Engie: So, you are changing your argument...AGAIN...

Will James: Uh.. nope.. Ive said from the get go that your best hitter with power should hit 4th, obviously I think this is Renfroe. You said Rea would have higher slugging than him this year.. I laughed.. But I have always said that the best hitting guy with power should hit 4th.

Engie: You actually said the guy with the highest slugging percentage should hit 4th... until I pointed out that it wasn'tRenfroe. Hence how you have now changed your approach and effectively moved the goalposts...Always lies and goalposts with you

Will James: I'd like for you to provide that quote. I brought up AL slugging AND batting average being cleanup. I also said Renfroe would have higher slugging than Rea, although I didn't say that's what justifies his 4 hole spot. I know for a fact I've said at least 5 times, if not more, that your best hitter with power should hit fourth. I have a feeling that you are putting words in my mouth again though.

Will James: I guess that's your modus operandi to twist words around. Never did I say that slugging determines your 4 hole. I just pointed out that the AL 4 hole had the highest slugging AND average. Something Rea did not do. At least debate in good faith Engie. Stop putting words in my mouth.


So someone finally has the capability to call out your ******** contained in your essays that impress the Cadaver's and you get pissed. I get it. You were beat, fair and square.

 

[Todd4State]

Link it?

Hell, look above your avatar Good Will ****ing.

 

[Todd4State]

You mean like

You mean... the positions that you actually endorse -- or in the very least run your mouth and spout out -- until we publicly slaughter them -- at which point you denounce having ever said it despite there being direct, exact evidence?

You know what gets old? Seeing you try to call everyone on here out that disagrees with you(which is literally everyone here most of the time) when you actually don't know or understand jack **** about complex nuances of the game. It would be tolerable if the points you were making were actually good ones -- but they generally aren't.

When he started to backtrack after I pointed out to him the differences between a drag ****, a sac ****, and a squeeze and pointed out that drag ****s are sometimes scored as sacrifices even though the intent is not to sacrifice, not to mention ****s that go for singles thus skewing his stats? After that then it was "well, OK- I'm maybe OK with that."

What's funny is before that, he probably didn't know the difference between those types of ****s.

 

[engie]

Exactly.

Link it.

That spin job Will James just threw together would make a democratic congressman blush**

Nevermind, I'll get that for you...

http://forums.sixpackspeak.com/showthread.php?103635-What-is-Cohen-thinking-!

 

[Will James]

When he started to backtrack after I pointed out to him the differences between a drag ****, a sac ****, and a squeeze and pointed out that drag ****s are sometimes scored as sacrifices even though the intent is not to sacrifice, not to mention ****s that go for singles thus skewing his stats? After that then it was "well, OK- I'm maybe OK with that."

What's funny is before that, he probably didn't know the difference between those types of ****s.

Not gonna spell out for you again that singles for ****s still go in the **** column. Drags too!

It's not a sac or no sac stat. It's a **** or no **** stat. Of course you know this because Ive said it a hundred times to you.

I honestly don't get the impulse for you and Engie to hold on to "credibility" by making **** up. I haven't backtracked on anything. Nothing is skewed no matter how many times you repeat it.

 

[engie]

When he started to backtrack after I pointed out to him the differences between a drag ****, a sac ****, and a squeeze and pointed out that drag ****s are sometimes scored as sacrifices even though the intent is not to sacrifice, not to mention ****s that go for singles thus skewing his stats? After that then it was "well, OK- I'm maybe OK with that."

What's funny is before that, he probably didn't know the difference between those types of ****s.

Yes -- just one of the many. He's trying to skew numbers to an audience that is too intelligent to blindly accept it.

Even as such -- I hate straight sacrifice ****ing with 1 runner on... Hate it... Never found the need to make an *** out of myself on the internet about it, but it's true -- and MANY of us feel the same way about that. But I'm with you -- I LOVE drag ****ing -- push ****ing against lefties -- pull slashing against crashing 3b's -- groundballs in the 4-hole on hit and runs -- etc. Basically, I love aggressive baseball -- and much of that includes ****ing or the threat thereof. These things certainly don't show up on a scoresheet...

His problem is that he couldn't leave his schtick to ****ing -- he had to try to interpolate it over to all facets of a game that he actually doesn't know all that much about -- only what he can read on the internet -- and not only that, he has to "call out" everyone that is seen as knowledgable in the sport, despite that ending brutally for him more times than not -- and practically always ending badly in the court of public opinion...

 

[engie]

Not gonna spell out for you again that singles for ****s still go in the **** column. Drags too!

It's not a sac or no sac stat. It's a **** or no **** stat. Of course you know this because Ive said it a hundred times to you.

I honestly don't get the impulse for you and Engie to hold on to "credibility" by making **** up. I haven't backtracked on anything. Nothing is skewed no matter how many times you repeat it.

Right... Well, please point our our ****s for basehit column on the statsheet...and the errors caused by those ****s...How about the drag/push and sacrifice splits? I'd love to see them?

No -- the only thing that goes in the book is SAC ****s -- where the runner actually advances to second with the play and the batter gets thrown out at first. F it up too bad -- it goes in the books as a popup, fielder's choice, or strikeout. Get on base, it goes as a single or error.

There is NO stat currently kept by MSU that looks at the cumulative effect of the ****ing -- and Boyd's stat is skewed in the same manner. Simply not how baseball scorekeeping is currently kept.

 

[Will James]

It's not a book dumbass its an either or. Either we **** or we dont. It's not the same thing as a scorebook or on the MSU stat sheet. You look at the play by play. It says

SAC, ****
single, ****
popped out to catcher, ****
reached on fielder's choice, ****. Norris out at second.

Its just looking to see what we do with a runner on first. ****, OF ANY KIND. Or not. You and Todd are retarded of you can't grasp this.

Willfully ignorant.

Also you have said on no less than 3 occasions that I have been right on the **** topic. Now its SPS cool to dump that I guess. You literally care so much what people on here think and your status. You're pathetic.

 

[Will James]

and practically always ending badly in the court of public opinion...

Engie running for mayor of Sixpack. Always worried what the board thinks.

 

[engie]

Engie running for mayor of Sixpack. Always worried what the board thinks.

Look on the bright side -- you've got Goat's vote**

Worried? No -- I just post my opinion -- and base it on as many facts as I have at my disposal.

I don't go out of my way in attempt to twist facts in order to attempt contrarianism -- and constantly turn the board into one big argument that isn't even entertaining or funny. If you "don't care what anyone else thinks" then why not keep your opinion to yourself? Everyone here will be much happier.

 

[engie]

It's not a book dumbass its an either or. Either we **** or we dont. It's not the same thing as a scorebook or on the MSU stat sheet. You look at the play by play. It says

SAC, ****
single, ****
popped out to catcher, ****
reached on fielder's choice, ****. Norris out at second.

Its just looking to see what we do with a runner on first. ****, OF ANY KIND. Or not. You and Todd are retarded of you can't grasp this.

Willfully ignorant.

Also you have said on no less than 3 occasions that I have been right on the **** topic. Now its SPS cool to dump that I guess. You literally care so much what people on here think and your status. You're pathetic.

So, this is how Boyd's numbers are accounted for?

Yeah, I didn't think so -- which is your only true reference point "confirming that you are right". It actually doesn't account for ****ing at all -- just runners on certain bases with certain numbers of outs.

As for the rest of your lulzable account, I LITERALLY just posted this in the previous post in this very thread. Your hypocrisy on this knows no bounds...

Even as such -- I hate straight sacrifice ****ing with 1 runner on... Hate it... Never found the need to make an *** out of myself on the internet about it, but it's true -- and MANY of us feel the same way about that. But I'm with you -- I LOVE drag ****ing -- push ****ing against lefties -- pull slashing against crashing 3b's -- groundballs in the 4-hole on hit and runs -- etc. Basically, I love aggressive baseball -- and much of that includes ****ing or the threat thereof. These things certainly don't show up on a scoresheet...

Can't argue against what I actually said -- so you have to change it to something else -- coincidentally, the same thing you accuse everyone else of doing.

How about this -- you tap the little ignore button for Todd and I -- the whole board will tap it for you -- and everyone ends up happy. Simple. Solution.

 

[Todd4State]

Sounds like you are the one trying to hold on to credibility

Not gonna spell out for you again that singles for ****s still go in the **** column. Drags too!

It's not a sac or no sac stat. It's a **** or no **** stat. Of course you know this because Ive said it a hundred times to you.

I honestly don't get the impulse for you and Engie to hold on to "credibility" by making **** up. I haven't backtracked on anything. Nothing is skewed no matter how many times you repeat it.

Expected runs tables is simply saying your percentage of scoring in a particular situation. It doesn't matter if your leadoff hitter gets on and **** him to second or if you steal second and the batter strikes out- it's the same percentage. Point out where the drag **** column is please.

http://www.boydsworld.com/data/ert.html


But I'll be real honest here- I feel the same way about you. Except, instead of holding onto credibility, I don't know why you feel like you need credibility. I can tell you from personal experience that I got credibility from being respectful most of the time at least and it wasn't really something that I was trying to get. I'm just being myself- and I think 98% of the board has accepted that.

I don't have to hold onto credibility. I have it no matter what- even if I am wrong about something. You can't say the same thing.

Maybe you are being yourself and you are just a douchebag. But if you are, don't be surprised when people don't give you credibility and when you post something and don't be surprised when people pick it apart and don't get all defensive when not everyone agrees with you. But personally, I don't think you are being yourself- and the reason I think that is because you've admitted to being a Coach34 wannabe.

 

[Will James]

Expected runs tables is simply saying your percentage of scoring in a particular situation. It doesn't matter if your leadoff hitter gets on and **** him to second or if you steal second and the batter strikes out- it's the same percentage. Point out where the drag **** column is please. http://www.boydsworld.com/data/ert.html

What the hell are you talking about drag **** columns? It's my numbers not Boyds. As last year showed, we scored 5x as many runs and twice as often not ****ing (any kind of ****ing, even getting on base ****ing) one man over. Boyd's numbers show that fact to be true as a whole in college baseball.


Credibility comes from being right. I don't NEED it, it just is. I say my opinion. People try to debate and argue it. And then I show where they are wrong. I'm not willfully ignorant or say people said something they didn't, hence the use of the reply with quote. As far as this Coach34 wannabe stuff you people keep saying. I've said yeah, the only thing we have in common is defending our positions ans using your quotes against you. If that upsets you, thats your problem.

 

[engie]

What the hell are you talking about drag **** columns? It's my numbers not Boyds. As last year showed, we scored 5x as many runs and twice as often not ****ing (any kind of ****ing, even getting on base ****ing) one man over. Boyd's numbers show that fact to be true as a whole in college baseball.


Credibility comes from being right. I don't NEED it, it just is. I say my opinion. People try to debate and argue it. And then I show where they are wrong. I'm not willfully ignorant or say people said something they didn't, hence the use of the reply with quote. As far as this Coach34 wannabe stuff you people keep saying. I've said yeah, the only thing we have in common is defending our positions ans using your quotes against you. If that upsets you, thats your problem.

Hilariously ignorant. Your self-perception that is.

So how do you reason through all this "being right" that you do, yet you have credibility with no one here? Goat -- of course -- notwithstanding...

You are right about a sacrifice **** situation -- that MANY of us had discussed ad nauseum before you showed up with your Rebelbruiser jersey on in attempt to save this place from the evils of sacrifice ****ing...and you think you are an internet celebrity? Child please.

I'm done with the petty arguing with you about this though -- it's pointless, meaningless, and does nothing but bring the entire board down to your level of arguing about the most trivial of things -- Things that can't be "proven" one way or another -- which is your favorite time to call someone "stupid" when your position can't be backed up by jackshit.

 

[Uncle Ruckus]

make it stop...

 

[GOOD_DAWG2.0]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/MakeItStop.gif

 

[Todd4State]

It doesn't upset me

What the hell are you talking about drag **** columns? It's my numbers not Boyds. As last year showed, we scored 5x as many runs and twice as often not ****ing (any kind of ****ing, even getting on base ****ing) one man over. Boyd's numbers show that fact to be true as a whole in college baseball.


Credibility comes from being right. I don't NEED it, it just is. I say my opinion. People try to debate and argue it. And then I show where they are wrong. I'm not willfully ignorant or say people said something they didn't, hence the use of the reply with quote. As far as this Coach34 wannabe stuff you people keep saying. I've said yeah, the only thing we have in common is defending our positions ans using your quotes against you. If that upsets you, thats your problem.

But it apparently upsets you. I think it's pretty obvious to the entire board who the one with the problem here is. Your problem is you can't stand to be wrong and you can't accept it- because in your low self-esteem head you think you will lose message board credibility, so then you backtrack when someone proves you wrong. YOU'RE the one that can't take it. And then you make it worse by going on and on and on about it. And speaking of putting words in someone's mouth- you were the one saying that I was saying we should play Brett Pirtle back when he was struggling and all I said was Brett Pirtle would be our starter on opening day. So don't give me that bullcrap line about not being willfully ignorant or say people said something they didn't.

Let me tell you something- you are a wannabe. On a message board. That's sad. And I'll say this about coach- yeah, he can maybe rub some people the wrong way with some of the things he says, but at least you can tell that he is being himself. I can't say that about you.

I told your dumb *** how to get credibility- and if that's what you really want so bad, you might want to actually LISTEN to someone that has it rather than dig yourself a deeper hole and getting less and less credibility by the day.

I'll be honest- I don't respect you or your opinion.

 

[hatfieldms]

This Internet slap fight has been awesome

Who ends up with more Internet credibility? The suspense

 

[CadaverDawg]

Who ends up with more Internet credibility? The suspense

It really has been entertaining. I never knew watching one of these was more fun than being involved in it.

InTents*

 

[lasher8]

Coach34 wannabe

from the archives...http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/topic/79178/Coach34-WF-message-board-giving-hell-doing-good-job

http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/topic/79181/Coach-it-is-me-impersonating-you-over-on-the-Wake-board

http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/topic/79188/BehrDawg-lead-DDDY-nominee-stealing-thunder

What the hell are you talking about drag **** columns? It's my numbers not Boyds. As last year showed, we scored 5x as many runs and twice as often not ****ing (any kind of ****ing, even getting on base ****ing) one man over. Boyd's numbers show that fact to be true as a whole in college baseball.


Credibility comes from being right. I don't NEED it, it just is. I say my opinion. People try to debate and argue it. And then I show where they are wrong. I'm not willfully ignorant or say people said something they didn't, hence the use of the reply with quote. As far as this Coach34 wannabe stuff you people keep saying. I've said yeah, the only thing we have in common is defending our positions ans using your quotes against you. If that upsets you, thats your problem.

 

[CadaverDawg]

Nevermind...the links are working for me now.

 

[UIUCDog]

What happened to this douchebag being banned for threads like this?

asdf

 

[Todd4State]

Old timer's day at Yankee Stadium should be interesting this year

Are Yogi and friends going to take on the 2013 Yankees team?

 

[Todd4State]

Says the guy begging to be a moderator on 247**

 

[hatfieldms]

This line up makes Yogi Bera look young

....

 

[hatfieldms]

I still haven't been able to find the thread where that happened

......