He never had to recruit a big time prospect before at the other schools he coached and I think he’s having trouble with that here. He needs to learn how to play the game quick because if he doesn’t it will get ugly fast.
Last edited:
TJ walker tweet on Pope and recruiting
- Thread starter RunninRichie
- Start date
Everyone who knows what's going on behind the scenes has heard that UK did in fact pay a fortune for this trash team.
But you do you. You and a few others refuse to believe that we could have paid anywhere close to the stated numbers because you refuse to acknowledge that a team that sucks this bad could cost that much.
And yet, there isn't a soul on earth who has refuted the stated numbers. Not even Pope when the NIL numbers were floated in front of him. You'd think that in order to facilitate some damage control, they would at least dispel the rumors of our overpayment.
It’s kinda impressive how bad Pope is at recruiting. You can blame Mitch Barnhart and JMI for lots of our problems but not a single top 50 recruit is very concerning from the coaching perspective.
What I don’t get, if the numbers are true, why did we not get any of our top targets? The money was obviously there, did we just go for volume over quality?
The Popists want it both ways. They want us to be #1 in NIL, right up until the moment we suck at recruiting and actually winning games. Then it's, "Hey guys, we're just a poor state and I have this number I'm going to arbitrarily throw out there. We're only paying $10 million for this roster. That's why we suck." Because, ya know, guys like Mo D and Aberdeen turned down starters minutes at their old SEC schools so that UK could pay them something like a half-mill each. Same for Lowe, JQ, etc!
I think Pope went for depth instead of quality. He'd rather 12 good players than 6 great players and 6 so-so guys.
I personally believe that was what transpired. Went more in the direction of having lots of depth, but missing the key element of having at least 1 or 2 guys who can dominate regardless.
I'd rather have a couple elite guys surrounding by 6 quality role players and play with 8, than play in waves with 12 quality role players that don't necessarily complement each other very well.
You absolutely need a stud. Last night Clemson scored the last 21 points and led byu by 21 at the half. Dybansa had 6 at the half. He finished with 28 and byu came all the way back and won the game.
Maybe Pope thought Oweh was going to be our stud?
I believe the numbers actually matter. For one, if the numbers are true - and everyone in the idustry seems to think that they are - then it shows that UK does, in fact, have an elite payroll for the next coach who replaces Pope.
That matters. It's not trivial, particularly if UK and its fans are in the business of pursuing an elite coach as opposed to hiring the bargain bin guy who played for Kentucky 30 years ago.
Second, the argument was only started by those Pope loyalists who have tried to create a new narrative in order to shield Pope from this team's historic-level early season failings. If Pope and UK paid $20 million for this roster, it just compounds the already inescapable blame that the coaching staff made for not only selecting this motley crew of losers, but also paying them like they're NBA rookies.
All of that being said, I completely understand the sudden burst of "no one in the industry believes this but we're going to use it anyway" narrative. It was the obvious play. I would have used it to if I was one of the Popists. It's the only move you make once the "we're injured" excuse doesn't work in 35 point blowouts where you make 7/34 from three and the guys who are injured ALSO SUCK at shooting threes.
I will say I don't know that Pope necessarily PREFERRED to go the direction of trying to have depth over quality. I don't know if the whole NIL landscape with UK dictated some of this. Or if it's just a learning curve for Pope. Might just have to learn that you probably need to identify the key pieces you want, and focus the necessary money on putting those pieces in place, and then use the remaining funds build around those guys.
Yeah, I'm sure Oweh was expected to be the alpha dog, but that hasn't panned out. Oweh is really only effective if he can get to the rim. He had enough shooters around him last year stretch the defense and allow Oweh to attack the rim. He doesn't have that this year. The only other thing that was going to propel Oweh to the next level this season was if he used the summer to become knock down 3 point shooter. That clearly did not occur, so overall Oweh has regressed this season.
Name one who is privy to actual numbers and not hearsay, conjecture, or something you read on Rafters. One....
Hope that boosters revolt. The more losses this year with the amount of money they paid, the more likely they’ll demand change.
Yeah, I’m not disagreeing with the skepticism. There are plenty of people who dispute the number because of this JMI stuff. I’m not pretending to know either way. If you put a gun to my head and made me choose, I’d say we did spent $22M and the JMI deal isn’t causing the issues —- it comes down to recruiting and promises. None of us know for sure, but I do think bias clouds judgment on things like this. I won’t go as far as you are and assess intentions because I don’t know what is in anyone’s head. As far as the rest of your post, I’m not sure what a “Popist” is. Any Kentucky fan who sees that lead over Kansas in all-time wins dwindling certainly should be all about Pope getting this turned around and fixed.
That needs to be taken to court and have that awful deal negated.
I’ve thought that too. I also think JMI needs to be very careful here. You regulate this too much and cost a blue blood their status, fans will revolt, apathy will happen, you lose the bang you were looking for. Also you can forget another flagship program signing with you and you’ll also lose Kentucky in the future. Their *** is on the line here too.
If you’re being too strict remove it from the contract and let the program loose. And this will come to light over the next few years.
Sports Illustrated
247 Sports - entire staff
On3 - entire staff
KSR - entire staff
Lexington Herald
The New York Times
CBS Sports
Field of 68
ESPN
Forbes
MSN
The Paducah Sun
The list goes on and on.
Meanwhile, neither the coaching staff nor UK have denied or refuted the reports. The silence is deafening.
You're on a island of naivety, friend. I'm sure it feels good, as I know it cushions the blow, but there's not one reputable source that questions the report.
Not one.
Last edited:
But he works so hard and he played here 30 years ago.
I've seen enough of Pope to know that he's not a killer. If he does just enough this season or next to keep Kansas knocking at the door of the all-time wins, what then? UK just keeps winning 22 to 24 games a year, with a Tubby-lite coach, and Kansas takes the lead two or three years from now anyway.
I want Pope out of here. I want a coach that will not just play paddy cake with Kansas like Pope is doing or like Cal did at the end of his UK run. I want a coach that will bury Kansas.
That will require an absolute killer. Pope is not that guy and never will be that guy.
That guy can’t be serious. I’m guessing it’s a troll, just doesn’t make sense For a UK fan to be this lax and okay with everything. Also questioning things that seem to be defined pretty clear.
I’m not calling for Pope yet because I don’t think it’s necessary. If he doesn’t work then he’ll be removed fast either way. I’d like to see if it can work because I think it’s important to have the Pitino era close instead of all of these foreigners. The Rupp era guys were responsible for a lot of our success after he was gone. It’s how we got Calipari in the first place. We need it if we can get it.
If we can get it, key words.
I’m having a huge issue with pope not resembling any qualities of great coaches before him. He needs to call Nick Saban, Pitino, and maybe even some of Rupps players to find out what their methods are and what he’s not doing.
Ok? Saul, nothing personal man. But it could be reading text that leads me to misunderstanding but half the time I feel you don’t really contend with much of what I’m saying. You just kind of reply and sperg out. If want Pope gone, it’s understandable. I’m not sure that gave me any better idea what you were trying to say when you replied to me in the first place. As for Pope, anyone is fair being over it —- I still have my own valid reasons for waiting on that to be set in stone for me. What is a “Popist”?
20+ wins might be asking a bit too much for this staff. 16-19 games at best. Pope won’t have the NIL support he’s gotten the last two years after the results from this year.
Not buying not wanting to play for Pope. He’s like the easiest coach to play for.
The NIL is a total joke. This isn’t CBB. This is a free for all.
It has to change, or it‘s going to implode.
NIL money should only be paid if you meet certain requirements. That’s the only way it can continue.
The NIL is a total joke. This isn’t CBB. This is a free for all.
It has to change, or it‘s going to implode.
NIL money should only be paid if you meet certain requirements. That’s the only way it can continue.
Blaming it entirely on the NIL is just cope at this point. It’s clear that players don’t want to play for Pope.
Nothing is clear about anything. That’s why you have one side stating it’s 100% on Pope’s recruiting because we got $22M and the other side stating JMI nuked us and that’s why we can’t get players. Ironically, the elephant in the room is that if we spent $22M any blame on JMI looks insane. The other elephant in the room is no coach, regardless of how good they are, is going to overcome these type o injuries that we have. Also, we overestimated our shooting ability and the coaching has to be better.
The problem is Kentucky isn’t even getting 2nd tier players. We’re on our 3rd and 4th choices. The fact that we can’t even get any top 100 players in the early signing period tells me that no one wants to play for Pope when they meet him unless we overpay. The JMI stuff might hurt, but Pope makes recruiting downright hostile for Kentucky
We spent 22 million but how many kids did we miss on because they couldn't seek non-JMI approved sponsorships? How did we go from a lock for Caleb to him signing with UNC with seemingly nothing else changing? Why did Lamar Wilkerson pick Indiana, and Landeborg Michigan?
It seems as if the truth is probably somewhere in the middle, Pope's 20 MPG for big name players won't work but if the reporting that JMI limits what players can achieve, that's a non-starter in this era of recruiting.
So, yes, I think we do need to consider some blame for JMI if the reporting is accurate.
Guys like Lamar Wilkerson when Dent went to UCLA. In some cases the 2nd choices might have turned out better for us. But we whiffed out on even those players. Then there’s top 30-40 high school recruits.
I can’t square both:
- We spent $22M on a roster
- JMI prevents us from signing players NIL
If you can, more power to you. To me, this wreaks of bias to have the cake and eat it too. I think your second paragraph would probably do a much better job of explaining a $22M roster while also having many “misses.” It would also help explain another point that is seldom brought up. Pope doesn’t refer to any of those as misses, but rather as the players showing their level of fit. Minutes, role, etc not being promised would match the agents’ description of how Pope handles recruiting. Doesn’t like promises, doesn’t like bidding wars —- because “we are Kentucky.”
Ok. That’s not what I asked you. We’ve crossed paths about 800 times on this topic so I pressed pause to ask you, for future reference, what you specifically deem as a 1st tier or 2nd tier player.
I’m talking about the coaching staff’s first choices… And when they fail to get those, whatever their backup choices are and when those also fail whatever is remaining.
Ok I hear you. I can’t call the quality of the roster the issue when KenPom had us preseason top 4 and we were a consensus top 10 team.
I think Pope 100% thought Oweh would be the star his preseason hype suggested he would be. He was wrong with that.
I think either Pope wasn’t willing to pay what the very top-end guys were asking for or JMI wouldn’t allow him to play that much, maybe both. I also think Pope completely mismanaged the roster, likely by going for depth over top-end quality. HOPEFULLY he will learn from this year’s roster and do much better next year. People seem to be 100% forgetting that Pope vastly over-achieved with last year’s team. That probably wasn’t an accident. I really hope this year turns around but even if it doesn’t, I’m willing to give Pope another year to see if he can turn this around.
And at the end of the day it doesn‘t really matter because outside of Pope somehow breaching his contract (which I think is pretty unlikely), he will be back no matter what.
I apologize for not being clear. I suppose it would’ve been better to say their “backup choices”.