Find me a coach that can consistently win here at Miss. State like Stans has done (SEC west champs 4 out of the last 6 years and won the SEC championship last year). More importantly find me a guy that can put up those kind of numbers and will remain loyal to our program and not pack up his stuff and leave the first opportunity he gets. If we were in a coaching search right now I'd kill to find a guy that fit those descriptions. By no means am I trying to say Stans is the best coach we could as for but we could very easily end up hiring someone a lot worse.
To all the Stans haters..
- Thread starter bigdawg22.sixpack
- Start date
I've refused to read any of the other threads about Stans because I'm sick of hearing about how bad of a coach everyone thinks he is. So, if this has already been discussed I apologize.
How does this team get to the next level? And by next level I mean getting into the NCAA, usually winning at least the 1st round, and occasionally making some real noise - getting the the sweet 16 and/or great 8.
Stans in his current mode of opperation isn't going to get that done. Period.
What do we do? A football team might go find new coordinators. Basketball?
Stans in his current mode of opperation isn't going to get that done. Period.
What do we do? A football team might go find new coordinators. Basketball?
<div>Let me start by saying that I really do like Stansbury and truly want him to win. Just a small bit of additional success and consistency would shut up most everyone I think.
If for whatever reason we were to replace him though, my vote would go to Gregg Marshall, formerly of Winthrop, now of Wichita State.
Someone with deeper pockets than Wichita will probably take him this year or
next if he continues to right the ship in Wichita. He's probably about 46 years
old. Actually, he would be a good fit at Auburn in the new arena next year.
</div>
<div>
Nine years at Winthrop: won the league six times, second twice, third once;
beat Notre Dame in NCAA tournament in 07 and was the team that almost beat UT
until Lofton hit a corner jumper to win it.
<span> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z41yCH_bIPY?f=videos&app=youtube_gdata" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="355" width="425" allowScriptAccess="never" ></embed></a><a class="gydvayvyrrnutwlarthi" href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z41yCH_bIPY?f=videos&app=youtube_gdata"> </span>
Third year at Wichita: From 11-20 (4-14) to 17-17 (8-10) to 17-4 (6-3) this
year. They are currently second in the Valley but are the only team to have beaten league leader Northern Iowa. Probably gonna be on the bubble come March but capable of getting the automatic bid in the MVC Tourney.
He worked for a while for Kresse at the College of Charleston. Was on the
staff that followed Donovan at Marshall U.
His current staff of three played or coached at one point or another in
Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Texas?and South Carolina, so there are connections throughout? the South though not in Mississippi.
So there, you asked for a name. There's one. Brian and Meo and Hanmu and HD can now rip him apart.
</div><div>?</div>
If for whatever reason we were to replace him though, my vote would go to Gregg Marshall, formerly of Winthrop, now of Wichita State.
Someone with deeper pockets than Wichita will probably take him this year or
next if he continues to right the ship in Wichita. He's probably about 46 years
old. Actually, he would be a good fit at Auburn in the new arena next year.
</div>
<div>
Nine years at Winthrop: won the league six times, second twice, third once;
beat Notre Dame in NCAA tournament in 07 and was the team that almost beat UT
until Lofton hit a corner jumper to win it.
<span> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z41yCH_bIPY?f=videos&app=youtube_gdata" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="355" width="425" allowScriptAccess="never" ></embed></a><a class="gydvayvyrrnutwlarthi" href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z41yCH_bIPY?f=videos&app=youtube_gdata"> </span>
Third year at Wichita: From 11-20 (4-14) to 17-17 (8-10) to 17-4 (6-3) this
year. They are currently second in the Valley but are the only team to have beaten league leader Northern Iowa. Probably gonna be on the bubble come March but capable of getting the automatic bid in the MVC Tourney.
He worked for a while for Kresse at the College of Charleston. Was on the
staff that followed Donovan at Marshall U.
His current staff of three played or coached at one point or another in
Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Texas?and South Carolina, so there are connections throughout? the South though not in Mississippi.
So there, you asked for a name. There's one. Brian and Meo and Hanmu and HD can now rip him apart.
</div><div>?</div>
he looks like a solid coach. I remember watching him against us a few years back at the Hump, when his Winthrop team beat us pretty handily. But what has he done at smaller schools that Stansbury hasn't done at a bigger school? To me, if you want to replace Stansbury, and your reason for replacing him is you want to make a jump to a higher level, then you need to hire a coach with a big-time resume, one that has made multiple deep runs in the tourney and consistently wins 25 plus games a year at a power conference school.
Again, this isn't Jackie's last 3 years. We were in the tourney last year, we are currently 15-4.
Again, this isn't Jackie's last 3 years. We were in the tourney last year, we are currently 15-4.
I either don't follow or don't agree with your reasoning.
If you are saying that you have to have an established head coach from a power conference in order to have more success than we have had the last 10 years, then I disagree. A quick glance at this week's Top Ten is full of coaches who did not fit that bill.....Jay Wright, Tom Izzo, Coach K, Bruce Pearl, Jamie Dixon, Frank Martin, although I am not convinced Frank Martin can hold the jock of those other five.
I know your other point of contention in this (at least one of them) is that we have no tradition and history on which to build. There's some truth to that, but I don't get too caught up in the past. Outside of about 5-10 schools in the upper echelon who are rarely going to struggle, and if they do it won't be for long (UCLA/Kentucky/Carolina/Duke/Kansas etc), a lot of basketball jobs are about the same. NC State has two championships, but their job is not a lot better than ours right now, and it will probably be open again after this year. Oklahoma State also has two banners, but since Eddie Sutton's last bender they have not been the same. Those schools have more tradition than we do but have to fight tooth and nail for everything they get. We are going to have to do the same.
Basketball is also a lot more regional than football, particularly in the northeast where there are a billion small colleges with basketball coaches, giving younger coaches more chances to start out. Then they establish themselves somewhere and don't want to move, particularly to remote Mississippi. It'll take the "right guy" a lot moreso than football, where an SEC head coaching job is the ultimate in the profession for just about anyone not named Lane Kiffin.
If you were saying something different than all that, then I just missed it. Sorry.
Oh one more thing....what has he done at a smaller school that Stans hasn't done here? I guess the thought is that coaches who are skilled enough to take smaller schools like Winthrop and Wichita to the tournament could take schools in larger conferences a step further. It's obviously not an exact science. For every Mike Anderson who got Missouri to the Elite Eight, there is a John Pelphrey. For every Bruce Pearl there is a Billy Gillespie (who I still think can coach when he is sober). The odds may not be in the hiring school's favor. I would say hiring a proven coach from a mid-major school is moderate risk, high reward. High risk would be hiring someone from a tiny school or promoting an assistant, which worked out for Rick but not for Matt Doherty for example.
If you are saying that you have to have an established head coach from a power conference in order to have more success than we have had the last 10 years, then I disagree. A quick glance at this week's Top Ten is full of coaches who did not fit that bill.....Jay Wright, Tom Izzo, Coach K, Bruce Pearl, Jamie Dixon, Frank Martin, although I am not convinced Frank Martin can hold the jock of those other five.
I know your other point of contention in this (at least one of them) is that we have no tradition and history on which to build. There's some truth to that, but I don't get too caught up in the past. Outside of about 5-10 schools in the upper echelon who are rarely going to struggle, and if they do it won't be for long (UCLA/Kentucky/Carolina/Duke/Kansas etc), a lot of basketball jobs are about the same. NC State has two championships, but their job is not a lot better than ours right now, and it will probably be open again after this year. Oklahoma State also has two banners, but since Eddie Sutton's last bender they have not been the same. Those schools have more tradition than we do but have to fight tooth and nail for everything they get. We are going to have to do the same.
Basketball is also a lot more regional than football, particularly in the northeast where there are a billion small colleges with basketball coaches, giving younger coaches more chances to start out. Then they establish themselves somewhere and don't want to move, particularly to remote Mississippi. It'll take the "right guy" a lot moreso than football, where an SEC head coaching job is the ultimate in the profession for just about anyone not named Lane Kiffin.
If you were saying something different than all that, then I just missed it. Sorry.
Oh one more thing....what has he done at a smaller school that Stans hasn't done here? I guess the thought is that coaches who are skilled enough to take smaller schools like Winthrop and Wichita to the tournament could take schools in larger conferences a step further. It's obviously not an exact science. For every Mike Anderson who got Missouri to the Elite Eight, there is a John Pelphrey. For every Bruce Pearl there is a Billy Gillespie (who I still think can coach when he is sober). The odds may not be in the hiring school's favor. I would say hiring a proven coach from a mid-major school is moderate risk, high reward. High risk would be hiring someone from a tiny school or promoting an assistant, which worked out for Rick but not for Matt Doherty for example.
If he'd hire an offensive assistant and let him handle the offense, i'd quit bitching regardless of the outcome, but I'm simply tired of being just better than mediocre when we've had the talent to be better.
2-30 from 3 point land sucks, but thats when a "coach" has other options to get better looks to the basket.
2-30 from 3 point land sucks, but thats when a "coach" has other options to get better looks to the basket.
all those guys were in different situations than we are in currently. I know Pearl replaced Buzz Peterson, who was terrible. Jamie Dixon was an assistant at Pitt who took over when Ben Howland left of his own accord to UCLA, Izzo took over for Jud Heathcoate when he retired. They were continuity hires that panned out very well, but it's obvious there wasn't a big search for those schools, Martin took over K-State when Huggins left for WVU. Jay Wright replaced Steve Lappas, who had missed the NCAA tourney for 3 out of 4 years. Believe or not, Coach K is your best example. It looks like he came into Duke at a time they were enjoying great success, and their head coach just left for whatever personal reason. And oddly enough, he took over after a 9-17 year at Army, Bob Knight's blessing went a long way in 1980. But Coach K had three straight seasons without a tourney appearance his first three years. If we fired Stans and did that, we would be crucified.
My point is this. We have been to the tourney the past two seasons, we are currently 15-4. It is more than likely we will win 20+ this season and make the NCAA tournament again. If you are going to fire a coach that has done that at Mississippi State, then you damn well better bring in a Bill Self/Roy Williams type to replace him. A mid-major or assistant coach hire makes you look like a fool.
My point is this. We have been to the tourney the past two seasons, we are currently 15-4. It is more than likely we will win 20+ this season and make the NCAA tournament again. If you are going to fire a coach that has done that at Mississippi State, then you damn well better bring in a Bill Self/Roy Williams type to replace him. A mid-major or assistant coach hire makes you look like a fool.
If you were to say to somebody: "We were SEC champions in 20XX", the reply to that question (from most bball fans) would be "Great, how did you end up in the tournament that year?". It simply doesn't carry the same weight as it does in football unfortunately.
That's not me saying I think an SEC Championship is garbage. It's a different type of success and one you should be proud of. But, college basketball stories are made or forgotten in March. That's just the way it is with basketball. If I had a choice, I'd pick sliding into the tournament and getting hot vs. dominating through out the year and fading away.
It just so happens we have a fairly unique situation in that we have routine regular season success combined with routine NCAAT disappointment. Somebody else can do the fact checking, but I bet we are in a pretty unique situation in that regard. Most coaches that are routinely successful in the regular seasons have at least managed a respectable post season appearance or two.
That's not me saying I think an SEC Championship is garbage. It's a different type of success and one you should be proud of. But, college basketball stories are made or forgotten in March. That's just the way it is with basketball. If I had a choice, I'd pick sliding into the tournament and getting hot vs. dominating through out the year and fading away.
It just so happens we have a fairly unique situation in that we have routine regular season success combined with routine NCAAT disappointment. Somebody else can do the fact checking, but I bet we are in a pretty unique situation in that regard. Most coaches that are routinely successful in the regular seasons have at least managed a respectable post season appearance or two.
As usual we are at am impasse.
It is difficult to have even a hypothetical discussion when you insist on any comparisons being in the exact same situation. That's fine, but it's a bit close-minded to say that Coach X would/would not succeed here because of circumstances Y and Z You can (and do) do it with every potential coach in the country with a list of about 15 things that make State unique. I'm not implying Gregg Marshall or any other coach would be a 100% guaranteed to be more successful than Rick has been. As is pointed out frequently, he's won a lot. As has also been pointed out he has his shortcomings. And as I said earlier, outside of the upper echelon schools, I don't think there's a whole lot of difference in the rest of the major conference basketball jobs.
I agree with your bottom line. Talking about firing Stansbury after another NCAA tournament is not going to happen. I have long been an advocate of changing at least one if not two assistants. Of course I also want us to uprgrade the schedule and have a sensible substitution pattern and that doesn't happen either, but I can hope.
It is difficult to have even a hypothetical discussion when you insist on any comparisons being in the exact same situation. That's fine, but it's a bit close-minded to say that Coach X would/would not succeed here because of circumstances Y and Z You can (and do) do it with every potential coach in the country with a list of about 15 things that make State unique. I'm not implying Gregg Marshall or any other coach would be a 100% guaranteed to be more successful than Rick has been. As is pointed out frequently, he's won a lot. As has also been pointed out he has his shortcomings. And as I said earlier, outside of the upper echelon schools, I don't think there's a whole lot of difference in the rest of the major conference basketball jobs.
I agree with your bottom line. Talking about firing Stansbury after another NCAA tournament is not going to happen. I have long been an advocate of changing at least one if not two assistants. Of course I also want us to uprgrade the schedule and have a sensible substitution pattern and that doesn't happen either, but I can hope.