Todd, question for you...

Feb 24, 2008
193
0
0
You seem to be a pretty knowledgable baseball guy, so I want to preface my two questions with that?

Do you truly believe MS State's signing class last year was a Top 20 class?

Do you truly believe Cohen was the right hire?

In all seriousness, this is not an intent to flame. I have given you guys credit multiple times as a program, I am just curious if you really believe these two things. I personally believe, and said so upon the hire, that Cohen wasn't the right person for th job. That job was bigger than him. He wasn't/isn't ready for the demands that come with the job. This may not make much sense to some, but in some ways it was easier for him to do it in Lexington with no expectations. At State, that isn't the case. True, Polk didn't leave alot of talent, but IMO, the class that was signed last year was more about quantity than quality. Honestly, outside of Bole and Stratton Im not sure there is a 2 year starter in the group.

I know it is only a year and a half in, but it certainly seems that this is too much job for him. My biggest issue with him besides constantly throwing kids under the bus is his inability to get these guys to do some small things well. They don't bunt, rarely run, and aren't very good defensively. They also seem to have their worst AB's when runners are in scoring position.

Again, some are going to say I am being a smartass Ole Miss fan, and that is fine, I'm just simply asking your honest opinion since you are obviously closer to the program than I am.
 
Feb 24, 2008
193
0
0
You seem to be a pretty knowledgable baseball guy, so I want to preface my two questions with that?

Do you truly believe MS State's signing class last year was a Top 20 class?

Do you truly believe Cohen was the right hire?

In all seriousness, this is not an intent to flame. I have given you guys credit multiple times as a program, I am just curious if you really believe these two things. I personally believe, and said so upon the hire, that Cohen wasn't the right person for th job. That job was bigger than him. He wasn't/isn't ready for the demands that come with the job. This may not make much sense to some, but in some ways it was easier for him to do it in Lexington with no expectations. At State, that isn't the case. True, Polk didn't leave alot of talent, but IMO, the class that was signed last year was more about quantity than quality. Honestly, outside of Bole and Stratton Im not sure there is a 2 year starter in the group.

I know it is only a year and a half in, but it certainly seems that this is too much job for him. My biggest issue with him besides constantly throwing kids under the bus is his inability to get these guys to do some small things well. They don't bunt, rarely run, and aren't very good defensively. They also seem to have their worst AB's when runners are in scoring position.

Again, some are going to say I am being a smartass Ole Miss fan, and that is fine, I'm just simply asking your honest opinion since you are obviously closer to the program than I am.
 

dawgatUSM

Redshirt
Apr 6, 2008
3,835
27
48
If the job was to big for John Cohen then who exactly could have filled the shoes? Buck? Casey? I could almost guarantee that Joe Torre could be here right now and we wouldn't be that much farther ahead. You HAVE to have good, experienced talent to be a powerhouse. We have raw talent right now, but it's certainly not experienced talent.

Freshmen are supposed to come in and fit into a particular role. We're asking Freshmen to come in and make up the majority of our team and win while doing so. That's tough to do.
 

Mjoelner

All-Conference
Sep 2, 2006
2,647
1,103
113
Next year's team will be full of Fr. and Sophs. so I expect much the same as we're seeing this year with maybe less production since the only guys hitting now are going to be gone. In 2 years when we're full of Sophs and Jrs is when I think we explode. And if people think that he's landing good classes now, wait til he starts winning.</p>
 

DirtyLopez

Redshirt
Feb 26, 2008
1,417
0
0
and that is you can't have a pitching staff of true freshmen and a bunch of juco transfers and expect to do alot. There is a reason that they were in juco. You can get a couple jucos here and there that fell through the cracks for whatever reason, but you can't rely on them. Cohen is using them as a stop gap measure for this and next season. And there are more than the two freshmen pitchers that you mentioned who have alot of potential. All of these people here who question Cohen are about three years ahead of themselves, which shows what they know about baseball and the situation that we have right now. And instead of questioning Cohen's ability to coach, you should ask yourself why bianco hasn't gotten to a world series inspite of consistently having two shutdown starters every season. He has had talent and hasn't parlayed it.
 
Feb 24, 2008
193
0
0
dawgatUSM said:
If the job was to big for John Cohen then who exactly could have filled the shoes? Buck? Casey? I could almost guarantee that Joe Torre could be here right now and we wouldn't be that much farther ahead. You HAVE to have good, experienced talent to be a powerhouse. We have raw talent right now, but it's certainly not experienced talent.

Freshmen are supposed to come in and fit into a particular role. We're asking Freshmen to come in and make up the majority of our team and win while doing so. That's tough to do.

Freshmen step in everyday at SEC programs and are difference makers. Ole Miss is starting two true freshmen, and would be startingfour if Frazar hadn't been a dumbass, and Renfroemade it to campus.The good one's don't fill roles. They play, especially when a program is having atoughtime getting their upperclassmen to perform up to par. That's why I say that class wasn't as good as some think it was. I still think Stratton and Bole are going to be very good SEC players. Bole has more upside, but I think Stratton will, in the end, be the better college player.Bracewell may be a good player, too. I just can't answer to that because I have never seen the kid with my own eyes.

As for Cohen, I don't know who could have filled the job.....I don't know who all of the candidates were. What I do know is thathe had one good season at UK, and they promptly exited left in a Regional at their ballpark. His lifetime conference record is well below .500. Look at UK now.....he certainly didn't leave them much to work with. I saw them play last weekend. They are really bad, outside of Meyer. Had he not been a MS State guy, I seriously doubt he wouldhave even been considered for the position. The fact is that job, with the fan support and financial support of the AD is still a Top 20 job. Even with the recent struggles.

I will say this......I think the first person to hire Mitch Thompson will be competitive quickly. Im surprised he wasn't seriously considered.

My point is that you don't seem to be getting better as the year progresses, and you are losing the only two guys that really seem to be swinging the bat well for you. That certainly seems to be an issue that doesn't look to be addressed.
 
Feb 24, 2008
193
0
0
DirtyLopez said:
and that is you can't have a pitching staff of true freshmen and a bunch of juco transfers and expect to do alot. There is a reason that they were in juco. You can get a couple jucos here and there that fell through the cracks for whatever reason, but you can't rely on them. Cohen is using them as a stop gap measure for this and next season. And there are more than the two freshmen pitchers that you mentioned who have alot of potential. All of these people here who question Cohen are about three years ahead of themselves, which shows what they know about baseball and the situation that we have right now. And instead of questioning Cohen's ability to coach, you should ask yourself why bianco hasn't gotten to a world series inspite of consistently having two shutdown starters every season. He has had talent and hasn't parlayed it.
Iagree completely that it is time for Bianco to get there. Without question. Thisconversation wasn't about Bianco, though. That could be a completely different thread, but I think anyone that understands the gameand has seen Ole Miss in thosesituations knows we haven't gotten it done when it counts.

You use the pitching as the crutch, but I don't think itis your biggest concern. Routt will be fine. Stratton will be fine. The issue is the bats, outside of Powers and Butler, and the inability to make plays in the field. IMO, the pitchinghas been adequate. And yes,you can win with young pitching. JUCO pitching is a different story. Rarely does a JUCO help you, unless you get him after his freshman year. As you said, they are JUCO arms for a reason.

The fact is that it doesn't take 4 years to build a baseball program.....not at a place like MS State. Kidswant to play there. No doubtPolk left holes, butusing him as a scapegoatis like Ole Miss fans using Orgeron if Nutttanks this year. At some point, the guy getting the check is responsible. The question is when does that responsibility start? Ithink you should see improvement by theend ofyear 1. Im not sayingyou should win a VERY competitive West this year, or even make aBirmingham or a Regional. Just that you should be getting better every weekend. And I don't see that happening with you guys right now.
 

Todd4State

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
17,411
1
0
Yes, I do believe that the class he brought in last year was a top 20 class.

Stratton and Bole are very good, CC Watson was drafted by the Rangers, and I think he will be very good, Ben Bracewell will be a very good closer and he has already taken that mantle as a freshman and has performed very well, Chad Girodo is also a very good pitcher- he was a Louisville Slugger AA and will be starting tommorrow, I think. He throws strikes and can change speeds. Kendall Graveman has done OK, I think he is more of a middle reliever than a starter. The other pitchers are projects- Matt Lane, Jared Miller and then Kolby Byrd is a project as well.

I'm not a big fan of JUCO guys, and I never have been. If you're JUCO, you're JUCO for a reason. And even if you're a guy like Kaleb Barlow, I think you lose some ground compared to guys that go to the SEC as freshmen because of the overall difference in talent. We should recriut no more than one JUCO a year, and I think if Cohen made a mistake, it was recruiting so many JUCO's. Shepherd was drafted, mainly on potential. At the same time, I see why he brought in so many- I think he is trying to bridge the gap between Polk's guys, and next year's freshmen- many who are position players so that he won't have to play so many freshmen. Based on how the JUCO guys have done in general, I think he may have to start freshmen anyway. It is worth noting that there are only three JUCO signees in our current class that signed in November- one of which is a holdover from last year's class that had Tommy John surgery.

Now, for your second question- yes, I do think that he was the right guy for the job. The reason being is because he is a good recruiter- which we are already seeing, he is a guy that has not only won at UK, he has won at Northwestern State, he has brought in good assistants, and he knows the program which I think is a bonus. I do think he sometimes wants to win so badly and wants to leave such an impression that I think he himself sometimes presses too much. I don't think Polk helped him out by essentially telling his players to transfer if MSU hired Cohen- that was very unprofessional of Polk in my opinion. I do think that even now there is a culture clash between Cohen's aggressive style and Polk's everybody learn about baseball style. I also think he is a good coach. I have seen him make many moves that have helped us to win ballgames that people maybe don't talk about- like last night when he got on to Ogden and then he comes through with the game tying single. There have been plenty of times where we have taken an extra base and gotten it, but people by nature only talk about the guys that get thrown out or do something ridiculous. The only thing that really hasn't improved this year over last year has been the hitting. I honestly don't know why. Maybe we just have a lot of guys slumping- I've heard a lot of people talk about how we hit a ball hard at someone, and some of these players have hit before like Sneed and Duffy and they're struggling. That happens sometimes, and you have to believe that the law of averages are going to balance out at some point. I will say when Cohen took over, our hitting improved almost 10 points as a team from 2008 to 2009. It's really a mystery to me.

He is bringing in some players that I am very encouraged about next year- like Chase Luwallen, DeMarcus Henderson, Daryl Norris, CT Bradford, Cody Abraham, and Garrett Pitts. I also hope that we sign Jackson Posey and Hunter Renfroe- and I hope Renroe doesn't give us the finger. So, I do think that there is hope on the horizon in addition to the players that we already have. But it's really frustrating to be patient while we are waiting on these Polk and JUCO players to graduate. I'll say this- I am more optomistic about the future of MSU baseball right now than I was two years ago.

Cohen at UK liked to do things like bunt, hit and run and etc., and it's very hard for some of these players to do some of those things. I think we will see ore of that as he continues to coach here.

Remember when Lou Piniella was coaching the Tampa Bay Rays a few years ago? He struggled, but it wasn't because he was a bad manager. In fact, he goes to the Cubs after that and gets them to the playoffs. He struggled because he had bad players. It's the same thing with MSU right now. We have some players that can do some things, but are horrible at others. And so we end up with a lot of liabilities in the field and in the lineup. I was hoping for 30 wins this year, but I am not real encouraged about that right now. There are just too many holes- many of which Cohen inherited.

And I'll say this to- I have actually seen our team play in person, and we are much more enjoyable to watch to me than we were the past two seasons. I really got tired of Polk's "That's baseball" schtick. And I wish I had one of my best friends here posting to verify this, but everything that happened under Polk II's tenure, I predicted except for the CWS appearance in 2007 and the 05 SEC Tournament. We may not be good, but we are at least playing baseball the way it is supposed to be played. Maybe not well all the time, but we're doing things that make sense, and I feel like Cohen is at least trying to win. Polk really didn't care if we won or not at the end of his career.

Here's what I think will happen for the future of MSU baseball:

2010: We struggle have a losing season, get rid of more Polk players. We have another top 10 recruiting class.

2011: We start several freshmen and the pitchers are now Sophomore dominated. We improve. Recruits are skeptical after three straight losing seasons, we haul in a top 20 class though. We go to a regional.

2012: Pitchers are now juniors, Polk's players are almost entirely gone, position players are now So. dominated and we have a few freshmen at a couple of other positions. Young, but experienced. We make/ maybe host a regional. If we play really well maybe even make a SR.

2013: Cohen's first class are finally seniors, position playes are junior dominated, make a SR, maybe go to Omaha.

I think that's kind of the timeline we are looking at as a program right now. It sucks losing, though.
 

Todd4State

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
17,411
1
0
and they are playing and contributing. I think Ethan Bright would play in a reserve role had he not been a dumbass himself. The only freshmen we are RS are Jared Miller who is raw, a catcher in Kolby Byrd, and a walk-on utility man in Dallas Hannah. Sam Frost is a walk-on who is playing right now.

Our entire rotation this weekend are Cohen recruits:

Graveman
Stratton
Likely Girodo

I mentioned our closer Ben Bracewell is a freshman, and CC Watson and Bole have all played as well as Matt Lane.

I don't think very many of our freshmen next year will RS either except for maybe Taylor Stark, Brayden Jones, and Victor Diaz.
 

dawgatUSM

Redshirt
Apr 6, 2008
3,835
27
48
independencebowlmainstay said:
Freshmen step in everyday at SEC programs and are difference makers. Ole Miss is starting two true freshmen, and would be startingfour if Frazar hadn't been a dumbass, and Renfroemade it to campus.The good one's don't fill roles. They play, especially when a program is having atoughtime getting their upperclassmen to perform up to par. That's why I say that class wasn't as good as some think it was. I still think Stratton and Bole are going to be very good SEC players. Bole has more upside, but I think Stratton will, in the end, be the better college player.Bracewell may be a good player, too. I just can't answer to that because I have never seen the kid with my own eyes.

As for Cohen, I don't know who could have filled the job.....I don't know who all of the candidates were. What I do know is thathe had one good season at UK, and they promptly exited left in a Regional at their ballpark. His lifetime conference record is well below .500. Look at UK now.....he certainly didn't leave them much to work with. I saw them play last weekend. They are really bad, outside of Meyer. Had he not been a MS State guy, I seriously doubt he wouldhave even been considered for the position. The fact is that job, with the fan support and financial support of the AD is still a Top 20 job. Even with the recent struggles.

I will say this......I think the first person to hire Mitch Thompson will be competitive quickly. Im surprised he wasn't seriously considered.

My point is that you don't seem to be getting better as the year progresses, and you are losing the only two guys that really seem to be swinging the bat well for you. That certainly seems to be an issue that doesn't look to be addressed.
You're right. Freshmen do come in and play, and do well. But like I said, WE HAVE A FULL TEAM OF THEM! We rely on all freshmen pitchers... You can't do that in baseball. That's all I'm saying. There are far too many working parts, and it's eventually just going to fall apart. Gotta have experience, especially at pitcher.

As for Cohen, he had 4 winning seasons out of 5 AT KENTUCKY! If you look at his numbers there, his first year was awful, there was improvement in his second year, but they were not great (2 games above 500), and in years 3-5 he had over 35 wins and 44 in two of those years. His numbers are fine.

I just think you don't quite understand baseball. This is not basketball where John Calipari can come in and recruit 5 freshmen that can take you to the elite 8.
 

Married to a Dog

Redshirt
Feb 25, 2008
143
0
0
"2013: Cohen's first class are finally seniors, position playes are junior dominated, make a SR, maybe go to Omaha."

How many contributers, as Seniors, do you want in baseball? I am not a baseball guy per se, but it seems you only want a guy or two in your top 12 that are seniors. Seniors in the SEC, in my opinion, are guys like Grant Hogue (keeping it MSU focused.) Other than a couple .275 catchers and gimp armed pitchers, I don't remember a lot of Sr.'s on Bianco's teams the last 5-7 years. Hogue was the exception you want. GREAT athlete and significant contributor who was a true missed talent coming out of high school, but will a significant number of them make a difference? I would think 3 or 4 Sr.'s would mean a couple guys that are not difference makers and only one or two like Hogue.
 
Feb 24, 2008
193
0
0
Todd4State said:
Yes, I do believe that the class he brought in last year was a top 20 class.

Stratton and Bole are very good, CC Watson was drafted by the Rangers, and I think he will be very good, Ben Bracewell will be a very good closer and he has already taken that mantle as a freshman and has performed very well, Chad Girodo is also a very good pitcher- he was a Louisville Slugger AA and will be starting tommorrow, I think. He throws strikes and can change speeds. Kendall Graveman has done OK, I think he is more of a middle reliever than a starter. The other pitchers are projects- Matt Lane, Jared Miller and then Kolby Byrd is a project as well.

I'm not a big fan of JUCO guys, and I never have been. If you're JUCO, you're JUCO for a reason. And even if you're a guy like Kaleb Barlow, I think you lose some ground compared to guys that go to the SEC as freshmen because of the overall difference in talent. We should recriut no more than one JUCO a year, and I think if Cohen made a mistake, it was recruiting so many JUCO's. Shepherd was drafted, mainly on potential. At the same time, I see why he brought in so many- I think he is trying to bridge the gap between Polk's guys, and next year's freshmen- many who are position players so that he won't have to play so many freshmen. Based on how the JUCO guys have done in general, I think he may have to start freshmen anyway. It is worth noting that there are only three JUCO signees in our current class that signed in November- one of which is a holdover from last year's class that had Tommy John surgery.

Now, for your second question- yes, I do think that he was the right guy for the job. The reason being is because he is a good recruiter- which we are already seeing, he is a guy that has not only won at UK, he has won at Northwestern State, he has brought in good assistants, and he knows the program which I think is a bonus. I do think he sometimes wants to win so badly and wants to leave such an impression that I think he himself sometimes presses too much. I don't think Polk helped him out by essentially telling his players to transfer if MSU hired Cohen- that was very unprofessional of Polk in my opinion. I do think that even now there is a culture clash between Cohen's aggressive style and Polk's everybody learn about baseball style. I also think he is a good coach. I have seen him make many moves that have helped us to win ballgames that people maybe don't talk about- like last night when he got on to Ogden and then he comes through with the game tying single. There have been plenty of times where we have taken an extra base and gotten it, but people by nature only talk about the guys that get thrown out or do something ridiculous. The only thing that really hasn't improved this year over last year has been the hitting. I honestly don't know why. Maybe we just have a lot of guys slumping- I've heard a lot of people talk about how we hit a ball hard at someone, and some of these players have hit before like Sneed and Duffy and they're struggling. That happens sometimes, and you have to believe that the law of averages are going to balance out at some point. I will say when Cohen took over, our hitting improved almost 10 points as a team from 2008 to 2009. It's really a mystery to me.

He is bringing in some players that I am very encouraged about next year- like Chase Luwallen, DeMarcus Henderson, Daryl Norris, CT Bradford, Cody Abraham, and Garrett Pitts. I also hope that we sign Jackson Posey and Hunter Renfroe- and I hope Renroe doesn't give us the finger. So, I do think that there is hope on the horizon in addition to the players that we already have. But it's really frustrating to be patient while we are waiting on these Polk and JUCO players to graduate. I'll say this- I am more optomistic about the future of MSU baseball right now than I was two years ago.

Cohen at UK liked to do things like bunt, hit and run and etc., and it's very hard for some of these players to do some of those things. I think we will see ore of that as he continues to coach here.

Remember when Lou Piniella was coaching the Tampa Bay Rays a few years ago? He struggled, but it wasn't because he was a bad manager. In fact, he goes to the Cubs after that and gets them to the playoffs. He struggled because he had bad players. It's the same thing with MSU right now. We have some players that can do some things, but are horrible at others. And so we end up with a lot of liabilities in the field and in the lineup. I was hoping for 30 wins this year, but I am not real encouraged about that right now. There are just too many holes- many of which Cohen inherited.

And I'll say this to- I have actually seen our team play in person, and we are much more enjoyable to watch to me than we were the past two seasons. I really got tired of Polk's "That's baseball" schtick. And I wish I had one of my best friends here posting to verify this, but everything that happened under Polk II's tenure, I predicted except for the CWS appearance in 2007 and the 05 SEC Tournament. We may not be good, but we are at least playing baseball the way it is supposed to be played. Maybe not well all the time, but we're doing things that make sense, and I feel like Cohen is at least trying to win. Polk really didn't care if we won or not at the end of his career.

Here's what I think will happen for the future of MSU baseball:

2010: We struggle have a losing season, get rid of more Polk players. We have another top 10 recruiting class.

2011: We start several freshmen and the pitchers are now Sophomore dominated. We improve. Recruits are skeptical after three straight losing seasons, we haul in a top 20 class though. We go to a regional.

2012: Pitchers are now juniors, Polk's players are almost entirely gone, position players are now So. dominated and we have a few freshmen at a couple of other positions. Young, but experienced. We make/ maybe host a regional. If we play really well maybe even make a SR.

2013: Cohen's first class are finally seniors, position playes are junior dominated, make a SR, maybe go to Omaha.

I think that's kind of the timeline we are looking at as a program right now. It sucks losing, though.

That's good dialogue. And for the record, I can assure you Renfroe wouldn't say no if he were offered. You just have to hope he gets qualified(and I think he will). I believe he could hit in the SEC next year. He would struggle some behind the plate, but he wouldn't be terrible.

You could be right about the arms, as I don't know a thing about Girodo and Gravemann. I have never been a fan of Watson, but we will see. It was all velocity, and that's not my thing if a guy has no secondary pitch.

As for the bats coming in, have you seen Norris and Pitts? I have, and quite a few times. IMO, neither is the caliber bat you are going to need to win in this conference. The others I haven't seen, other than Henderson, and he has a chance to be good. Very toolsy, so you need them to pan out, but he certainly has tools.

Thanks for the response though. As a baseball guy in general, it is quite difficult to see what Polk did to that program the second time around. I still think it was never about the program the second time, but about havinig a pulpit to continue his NCAA bashing every other day.
 
Feb 24, 2008
193
0
0
dawgatUSM said:
independencebowlmainstay said:
Freshmen step in everyday at SEC programs and are difference makers. Ole Miss is starting two true freshmen, and would be startingfour if Frazar hadn't been a dumbass, and Renfroemade it to campus.The good one's don't fill roles. They play, especially when a program is having atoughtime getting their upperclassmen to perform up to par. That's why I say that class wasn't as good as some think it was. I still think Stratton and Bole are going to be very good SEC players. Bole has more upside, but I think Stratton will, in the end, be the better college player.Bracewell may be a good player, too. I just can't answer to that because I have never seen the kid with my own eyes.

As for Cohen, I don't know who could have filled the job.....I don't know who all of the candidates were. What I do know is thathe had one good season at UK, and they promptly exited left in a Regional at their ballpark. His lifetime conference record is well below .500. Look at UK now.....he certainly didn't leave them much to work with. I saw them play last weekend. They are really bad, outside of Meyer. Had he not been a MS State guy, I seriously doubt he wouldhave even been considered for the position. The fact is that job, with the fan support and financial support of the AD is still a Top 20 job. Even with the recent struggles.

I will say this......I think the first person to hire Mitch Thompson will be competitive quickly. Im surprised he wasn't seriously considered.

My point is that you don't seem to be getting better as the year progresses, and you are losing the only two guys that really seem to be swinging the bat well for you. That certainly seems to be an issue that doesn't look to be addressed.
You're right. Freshmen do come in and play, and do well. But like I said, WE HAVE A FULL TEAM OF THEM! We rely on all freshmen pitchers... You can't do that in baseball. That's all I'm saying. There are far too many working parts, and it's eventually just going to fall apart. Gotta have experience, especially at pitcher.

As for Cohen, he had 4 winning seasons out of 5 AT KENTUCKY! If you look at his numbers there, his first year was awful, there was improvement in his second year, but they were not great (2 games above 500), and in years 3-5 he had over 35 wins and 44 in two of those years. His numbers are fine.

I just think you don't quite understand baseball. This is not basketball where John Calipari can come in and recruit 5 freshmen that can take you to the elite 8.

I played until I was 24, at a pretty high level. I also spent time working in professional ball. I'm not saying this to say I know more than you, or anyone for that matter. But my baseball credentials shouldn't be questioned. I certainly understand various aspects of the game, and from many different angles(playing, coaching, and scouting).

Again, this wasn't a "pat me on the back" session, just giving you my background.
 

Todd4State

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
17,411
1
0
but he has to learn to throw it for strikes, which is pretty common for most 18 year olds. If he can throw that curve for strikes consistently, I think he can start, if not, he will be in the bullpen.

I see Norris more as a pitcher than a hitter. I think Pitts will be more of a back-up catcher than anything, but he is hitting over .500 right now with 6 home runs, and Norris has four himself. I honestly have not seen them play in person, but I have seen some video. Someone on here said that the coaching staff thinks very highly of Norris as a hitter/pitcher, but we'll see. I'd like to see Bole as a dual position guy myself after he hit 20 bombs last year.

Many of the players Cohen has recruited are scrappy players like Luwallen and Brayden Jones- guys who will be good college players and fit his style of play more. They aren't going to be MLB stars, but they're guys that can help you win games in college- especially when they are seniors.

I think Wes Rea is also going to help us out in the bullpen next year.
 

skydawg1

All-Conference
Jul 31, 2007
4,325
1,087
113
you think John Cohen sucks. So do lots of other coaches/fans who have to compete against him.
 

Todd4State

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
17,411
1
0
Married to a Dog said:
"2013: Cohen's first class are finally seniors, position playes are junior dominated, make a SR, maybe go to Omaha."



How many contributers, as Seniors, do you want in baseball? I am not a baseball guy per se, but it seems you only want a guy or two in your top 12 that are seniors. Seniors in the SEC, in my opinion, are guys like Grant Hogue (keeping it MSU focused.) Other than a couple .275 catchers and gimp armed pitchers, I don't remember a lot of Sr.'s on Bianco's teams the last 5-7 years. Hogue was the exception you want. GREAT athlete and significant contributor who was a true missed talent coming out of high school, but will a significant number of them make a difference? I would think 3 or 4 Sr.'s would mean a couple guys that are not difference makers and only one or two like Hogue.


At the same time, if you can keep a guy like Conner Powers, that is very helpful. The game is kind of changing a little bit- I think you are starting to see more and more guys come back to school to try to get more money in a lot of cases. LSU has always been really good at keeping guys that I thought would have been gone like Brad Creese for their senior year.

I do think that there is some merit to what you are saying- it just depends on the players that you have, and I would prefer a junior/senior laden team because of the culture of baseball. Cohen is also very good at keeping juniors for their senior year- it's almost recruiting them over again. At the same time, sometimes those gimp armed senior pitchers are very valuable as far as eating innings and a senior catcher who can handle a pitching staff is also very valuable and a lot of times, seniors can provide you good leadership even if they aren't five tool guys. I wouldn't trade guys like Brooks Bryan and Rusty Thoms for very many players.
 
Feb 24, 2008
193
0
0
Todd4State said:
but he has to learn to throw it for strikes, which is pretty common for most 18 year olds. If he can throw that curve for strikes consistently, I think he can start, if not, he will be in the bullpen.

I see Norris more as a pitcher than a hitter. I think Pitts will be more of a back-up catcher than anything, but he is hitting over .500 right now with 6 home runs, and Norris has four himself. I honestly have not seen them play in person, but I have seen some video. Someone on here said that the coaching staff thinks very highly of Norris as a hitter/pitcher, but we'll see. I'd like to see Bole as a dual position guy myself after he hit 20 bombs last year.

Many of the players Cohen has recruited are scrappy players like Luwallen and Brayden Jones- guys who will be good college players and fit his style of play more. They aren't going to be MLB stars, but they're guys that can help you win games in college- especially when they are seniors.

I think Wes Rea is also going to help us out in the bullpen next year.
When Isaid Watson didn't have a secondary pitch, thatiswhat I was getting at. He doesn't have one that is usable. Very Cody Satterwhite-esque, but notCody'svelo. IMO, from what I saw of him, he shouldscrap the overhand breaking ball and go to a slider. Then, he could end up being very good at the back of a bullpen. I just don't think he has the feel to throwthe curveball he is trying to throw.

Norris should definitely be given the opportunity to do both, as that is wherehis value lies. He isn't great at either, but adequate at both. As you alreadyknow, I am a big Luwallen fan.Not as a pro guy, but as a college player. He is going to be a very good one, IMO. I don't know enough about Jones to say. I thinkRea could help, but he needs to slim down if he isn't going to play football
 

Todd4State

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
17,411
1
0
with CC. A slider certainly would be easier to control. That also applies for most of State's pitchers though in the sense that some need to add pitches or refince pitchers, or maybe even scrap pitches. They're typical young pitchers.

I think Rea is down to 260 allegedly.
 

dawgoneyall

Junior
Nov 11, 2007
3,425
202
63
at Ky. He won the SEC at KY (reg. season, which is what counts) which MSU hasn't accomplished since 1989.

Exactly, what would make the job at MSU too big for Cohen? It should only be easier at MSU. But damn, it takes players and that takes more than one year and 20 games the next year.

Keep whistling past the graveyard.
 
Feb 24, 2008
193
0
0
Todd4State said:
with CC. A slider certainly would be easier to control. That also applies for most of State's pitchers though in the sense that some need to add pitches or refince pitchers, or maybe even scrap pitches. They're typical young pitchers.

I think Rea is down to 260 allegedly.

I enjoy solid baseball conversation, but apparently the idiots are coming out, so I am going to step out. Have a good one, and good luck to you guys tomorrow.
 

dawgoneyall

Junior
Nov 11, 2007
3,425
202
63
wasn't a well coached team while Cohen was there then you don't know dittly squat about baseball and I don't care at what level you played.
 

omaha08

Redshirt
Dec 13, 2007
463
0
0
I know you said you weren't attempting to flame, but why the hell are you so overly concerned with our program? I mean you've really done your homework when it comes to us. Just a bit much man.
 

Todd4State

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
17,411
1
0
independencebowlmainstay said:
Todd4State said:
with CC. A slider certainly would be easier to control. That also applies for most of State's pitchers though in the sense that some need to add pitches or refince pitchers, or maybe even scrap pitches. They're typical young pitchers.

I think Rea is down to 260 allegedly.

I enjoy solid baseball conversation, but apparently the idiots are coming out, so I am going to step out. Have a good one, and good luck to you guys tomorrow.
 

Todd4State

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
17,411
1
0
is a pitcher that is a likely first round pick ace in Pomeranz. Just like when we had Maholm, if you can neutralize the other team's ace, you are going to win a lot of series. Pomeranz is an Ole Miss legacy. Barrett has also stepped up for them big time. Most of their players are also very experienced as far as SEC play goes. They start several juniors and seniors. Very different from our team, they aren't trying to mix and match a lot of JUCO guys and freshmen pitchers into a team.

The team that they have now reminds me a lot of our team in 2003. I don't know that they'll choke in the regionals, but they do remind me of that team.

I also think that Cohen has kind of been a nemesis for Bianco going back to their days when Cohen was at UK. We'll see if that continues.
 

DawgMedic

Redshirt
Jan 1, 2008
249
0
0
Last year the Rebels were by far the better team according to anyone that follows college baseball.

Fri. MSU-6 OM-5
Sat. MSU-11 OM-8
Sun. MSU-1 OM-8

Cohen knows how to get the best out of what he has. In the coming years he will have more talent. I wouldn't want anyone else as our coach right now.
 

rebel law

Redshirt
Jun 4, 2007
406
0
0
The rebs can win 20 SEC games again and the dogs can win single digit SEC games again but as long as y'all beat us y'all can convince yourselves it was a good season. Pretty similiar to football
 

thatsbaseball

All-American
May 29, 2007
17,751
6,331
113
but for you guys it`s all you have. We know we have to rebuild our program to get back to Omaha and we will. In the meantime beating a delusional bunch of shallow pretentiousairheads like yall does bring us joy and it seems to be always available.
 

Reallybaddawg

Redshirt
Apr 6, 2009
49
0
0
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; ">I think Wes Rea is also going to help us out in the bullpen next year</span><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px;">
</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px;">Todd, I heard Wes hurt his arm - you heard anything about that?</span></font></div>
 

Todd4State

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
17,411
1
0
Reallybaddawg said:
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px; ">I think Wes Rea is also going to help us out in the bullpen next year</span><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px;">
</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 12px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 2px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 2px;">Todd, I heard Wes hurt his arm - you heard anything about that?</span></font></div>


But I will check it out.