Football Too early to judge Stoops definitively. Here's why.

[JRowland]

I realize the timing of this will be a stark contrast to the general sense one day after the latest loss, but I do believe in what I wrote here. Read it with an open mind and if I'm wrong then tell me.

STORY: It's complicated. Evaluating Stoops, expectations and more.

 

[TJS4UK]

A lot of good points.

 

[Tannerdad]

I think even the most rational fans can see this staff is not very good as a unit and that Stoops may be in over his head a little.

Good recruiter but certainly not ready for prime time as HC, IMO.

 

[Calsarmy]

I have seen a lot of very bad football since the 50s so takes a lot to surprise me at this stage. I would say a few things. First this particular season was basically planned out and set up for Coach Stoops. 8 home games and a easier than normal rotation of SEC teams. That in itself is disheartening. I really dont question the players as much as I do the staff. They simply are not prepared. I think one of if not the biggest problems on offense is Stoops. He needs to divorce himself from the offense as he does just about enough to gum up the entire works. We have hired 2 air raid OC's and we are running 25% fewer plays. One OC with those numbers and its an OC problem. 2 OCs and its the HC. There are so many pieces to be fixed I really dont know where to begin.

 

[TJS4UK]

2 OC's and it just might be the players (experience, depth, talent, heart, attitude, coach ability, etc) rather than the HC.

 

[UKErik]

JR, I'm not worried about the things outside of Stoops control. Hell, if you don't have a guy for "x" position or depth at other positions, well, those things take time to get fixed.

My worries are the things within his control. As I posted yesterday, even awful football teams can be fundamentally sound and avoid beating themselves.

Stoops' team looks disorganized and dysfunctional.

GBB!!!

 

[akaukswoosh]

JR, I'm not worried about the things outside of Stoops control. Hell, if you don't have a guy for "x" position or depth at other positions, well, those things take time to get fixed.

My worries are the things within his control. As I posted yesterday, even awful football teams can be fundamentally sound and avoid beating themselves.

Stoops' team looks disorganized and dysfunctional.

GBB!!!

Ditto

 

[CHAMPCAT11]

It's nice to get your perspective since you're in the media and we know who you are, what you look like, and what you do. I appreciate your input because posters on his board for the most part don't have a clue who the other posters are or even if they're UK fans. In other words it's easy to hide behind the keyboard if you know what I mean. I tend to side with UKErik because it's not so much the losses but more the confusion and disarray of almost every game. No need to point them out because we all know what they are. Plus, it looks like there's discontent on the team between the coaches and the players, the coaches and the coaches, some of the players vs the other players, and a lack of effort from some of our most talented players. In other words, we look like a team that doesn't really care and also doesn't respect or play hard for the coaches. I liked your insight but I really see trouble for the future. Just compare this year's schedule to what we face next year and tell me how we could possibly do better. As it turns out we had a soft schedule this year that should have allowed to compete.... maybe not win.... but compete. And we folded our tent big time once again. So I'd like to ask you a question and see how you feel: Do you think Stoops is still 'all in' and losing sleep over the nightmare he's put us in or do you think there's a part of him that knows UK has made him a multi millionaire for life and maybe he doesn't worry so much about how things turn out as he did when he first got here and looked like a shining star ? And lastly, your article was very insightful and it was good to see your point of view.

 

[K_TIME]

Here is why it is hard to see Stoops succeeding at UK..
1. He's burned thru 1 OC. So he's already had one chance to get an upgrade on offensive side of ball. And the current OC is for all purposes...doing a worse job with basically the same unit from last year (save Darrian Miller, Javess Blue and DeMarco Robinson).. THe entire idea of trying to be a run team out of the air raid formation without using your QB to run it a bit is simply...a very odd scheme to say the least. It's just hard imaging talent is really the issue with what we're seeing on offense.
2. On defense...Stoops hand picked Elliott and is the one that is going to this 3-4 scheme (that UK never runs very well at UK). So again...like offense...the scheme is just not a great fit and isn't being coached very well in early returns at UK. Also, we lose a good bit of defensive starters...hard to see this unit doing better in 2016.

I am finding it hard to see where UK can improve next year..save special teams.

 

[KumarCat]

I agree, he should not be fired yet. He deserves a minimum of one more season. If recruiting keeps up I would even say two more. We just can't afford for recruiting to slip with a lame duck coach. UK fans can not stand another rebuild. If the talent starts to slip, he needs to be removed immediately.

 

[Mr Schwump]

Here is why it is hard to see Stoops succeeding at UK..
1. He's burned thru 1 OC. So he's already had one chance to get an upgrade on offensive side of ball. And the current OC is for all purposes...doing a worse job with basically the same unit from last year (save Darrian Miller, Javess Blue and DeMarco Robinson).. THe entire idea of trying to be a run team out of the air raid formation without using your QB to run it a bit is simply...a very odd scheme to say the least. It's just hard imaging talent is really the issue with what we're seeing on offense.
2. On defense...Stoops hand picked Elliott and is the one that is going to this 3-4 scheme (that UK never runs very well at UK). So again...like offense...the scheme is just not a great fit and isn't being coached very well in early returns at UK. Also, we lose a good bit of defensive starters...hard to see this unit doing better in 2016.

I am finding it hard to see where UK can improve next year..save special teams.

STs in '16 could be improved just by paying attention to it.

O could be better if they can decide what they want to do and stick with it. It'll never be great but could be better.

The D....OK, here's a likely front 7: DE Miggins, DT Meant, NG Elam. Then OLB Hatcher, ILB Love, ILB Jones, OLB Ware or Laster. Is there anybody out there who thinks that Front 7 can win SEC games?

 

[Lionel_Hutz]

Stoops has what, 34 games under his belt as HC? I don't think it's too early to judge him.

 

[sluggercatfan]

D

I realize the timing of this will be a stark contrast to the general sense one day after the latest loss, but I do believe in what I wrote here. Read it with an open mind and if I'm wrong then tell me.

STORY: It's complicated. Evaluating Stoops, expectations and more.

Don't agree...Entire team is in a meltdown. And very disorganized

 

[Formerly Imafan4evr_]

It's never too early to expect someone to:
-Competently trot 11 guys out for a punt return. 8 seems a little bare.
-Recognize a dwindling play-clock prior to a key FG in a must-win game.
-NOT waste a TO prior a punt; a TO that might have been pretty important to have had later on.

And the list could go on and on. Point being, I don't care what your limitations are as a program, if the coach before you recruited FCS level talent, insert any other excuse here, I expect you to manage common game occurrences in a proper manner. Youth league coaches can do these things.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

I realize the timing of this will be a stark contrast to the general sense one day after the latest loss, but I do believe in what I wrote here. Read it with an open mind and if I'm wrong then tell me.

STORY: It's complicated. Evaluating Stoops, expectations and more.

First I think many here didn't realize how low the talent level at UK had fallen. There were very few players who would have been on SEC rosters when he got here, maybe fans did realize it but it was very low, MAC level almost. Some of those guys are still playing, so while the younger classes are better the leadership is still basically MAC level. Now on to the recruiting, it has improved by leaps and bounds, it has created hope ane expectations for the UK fanbase. But the downside of that is in spite of the improved recruiting, which looks great to UK fans, its still bottom 2-3 in the SEC during Stoops time at UK. I see many talk about how well UGA recruits, well over that time we are middle of the pack in recruiting, trailing Bama, AU, UT, LSU, pretty much even with OM, UF and A&M. Lots of teams in the SEC are in the top 20 every year, not 1 out of 3 or 4, some are top 5 every year, not top 15. UK is still at a big talent disadvantage against most teams in the SEC, if you put any faith in recruiting rankings. So I think one issue people have with him, is that he is recruiting so well he should be winning more games, but the brutal reality of the SEC is he isn't recruiting very well compared to other SEC teams. Now UK is 16th in the rankings with 22 kids, only a handful of points ahead of UT, A&M, AU who will move ahead of UK with another commit, plus USC, ARK, MSST may if they grab a couple of top 250 kids. I think the 16 class is the best at filling UK needs, which is OL because there just isn't very many SEC OL out there, probably 25 WR and DB for every 1 OL.

Sure he has growing pains, he didn't get to learn at some directional school like many up and coming new coaches, he got thrown to the wolves, and was somewhat lucky that he came with the entire SEC East being a little down, it could have been worse, Franklin could still be at Vandy, SOS could still have had the desire, Urban could still be at UF, that would have been a meatgrinder for a new head coach at a traditionally down SEC school. But regardless, he is still learning, he has made some bad decisions, I think he probably has his finger too much in the offense, but I think he believes he is suppose to do that, he needs to learn to not interfer with the OC's scheme. If he doesnt' want to run an air raid offense, then don't hire an air raid OC, Muschamp failed because he kept doing that exact thing, but even he got 4 years.

Its tough on fans when fan's expectations aren't being met, it still comes back to UK's best players being underclassmen, and its tough to win with those restrictions.

 

[docholiday51]

JR, I'm not worried about the things outside of Stoops control. Hell, if you don't have a guy for "x" position or depth at other positions, well, those things take time to get fixed.

My worries are the things within his control. As I posted yesterday, even awful football teams can be fundamentally sound and avoid beating themselves.

Stoops' team looks disorganized and dysfunctional.

GBB!!!

Why is this so easy to see for some but so hard for others? Another question I have begun to consider ,is there an additional underlying reason they appear so disorganized and dysfunctional? They didn't begin the season in this state.

 

[jnewc2_rivals30628]

So basically what Rowland is saying is that the expectations were too high. Understandable I guess..well except for the fact that we were out-played and out-coached by a significantly less talented Louisiana Lafayette, Eastern Kentucky and Vanderbilt team...none of which can be explained by ANY of Rowland's explanations as to why this staff continues to make the same mistakes over and over and over again. That's not even taking into account losing to a significantly less talented Western Kentucky team in his first year (yes, Western Kentucky was significantly less talented, go back and look at the rankings, their recruiting was nowhere close to ours and even in a down year their recruiting is nowhere close to ours). I usually like what Rowland has to say, but his arguments are flawed and they can all be relatively easily debunked. Is more time really the answer when we have a coach in his third year and a talent advantage at virtually every single position on the field? Why is it that Derek Mason doesn't need "more time"?

If a lack of talent is the issue then why did Eastern Kentucky push us around when we had a SIGNIFCANT talent advantage at literally every single position except for one? Come on, the excuses have to stop. I could buy some of Rowland's "reasons" after a loss to Florida or a loss to Tennessee, but not after a loss to a Vanderbilt team that has every single disadvantage that we have only amplified. These arguments about more time and talent are flawed and hold no water after an embarrassment like we witnessed yesterday. Talent and time aren't going to fix what we saw yesterday, if anything they're only going to make it worse.

 

[JRowland]

I said expectations are part of the reason people are so upset. I didn't say the lack of progress was acceptable. Actually I was one of the first media people to straight up say that the improvement was from 2013 to 2014, but not 2014 to 2015. I've voiced plenty of criticism. I do feel a duty to share when I think there's room for nuance.

 

[LowCountryCat]

Here's my question:

How much of your story would be relevant if Stoops DIDN'T have an $18 million buyout?

 

[@lleycat]

UK is screwed. Right or Wrong, we are stuck with Stoops for a few more years. Maybe he will right the ship, but the honeymoon is over. I fully expect game attendance to take a major hit.

 

[Shavers48]

can anyone think of another first job head coach who had as many miscues and continual disorganization as Stoops who went on to right their ship and eventually become successful there? I really can't think of a single one in a remotely comparable situation. not one.

 

[LowCountryCat]

can anyone think of another first job head coach who had as many miscues and continual disorganization as Stoops who went on to right their ship and eventually become successful there? I really can't think of a single one in a remotely comparable situation. not one.

It's way too early, any REAL fan knows it takes 17-22 years to build an SEC program. I'm waiting for Stoops to sign his next extension, then I know he'll really buckle down and get serious.

 

[HSLex]

Maybe it was undeniable but the expectations became outsized early in the Stoops era.

I know many fans, such as myself, who have basically maintained throughout Stoops' 34 games as head coach that the expectation was to field a well-coached team and compete as hard as possible. Every week.

That's it. That's the expectation 34 games into his tenure.

The fact that such an expectation looks increasingly more "outsized" with each passing game is not our fault.

Call it what you will, but it's this: A realization that if Mark Stoops can't succeed at Kentucky then the outlook is very grim.

I do not believe this. I am very hopeful about the future given the monetary commitment, facility upgrades, etc. I believe we can continue to recruit better players, and once those players are paired with an experienced, competent head coach then we can hit a high water mark for success. (If Stoops somehow transforms himself into such a head coach, then great. He is already here. If not, then we go about finding one from a smaller conference and bring him in.)

If another coach were in Stoops' seat tomorrow then there would immediately be the question of whether the administration would support another coach the way they have supported Stoops', whether the financial commitment would continue, and also whether the recruiting success could be sustained.

Why wouldn't it continue?

By this point it's fair to say that level-minded fans can believe that Stoops will not ultimately succeed.

You have seen him on the sidelines, seesawing between looking completely lost and spending an inordinate amount of time preoccupied with the officials. You have heard him in post-game press conferences, sounding like anything but someone who has an actual plan to fix anything. (Even down to the slight defensiveness).

So, yeah, I think there is room for some level-minded skepticism about his becoming a good head coach. His next game is number 35.

But stranger things have happened, I guess.

 

[Kampus Korner_rivals164031]

JRowland, there is no question that Mark Stoops inherited a football team with a substantial lack of talent. However, every former UK coach leaves his successor with a level of talent significantly below what is needed to compete in the SEC. History reveals that the better high school talent starts choosing other programs a couple of years before the UK coach starts failing so much that he gets himself fired or in the case of Rich Brooks, announces that he is going to quit. UK fans are accustomed to having a lack of competitive talent to be successful in the SEC.

Having a lack of talent and other festering problems left over by the previous coach is nothing new for an incoming UK football coach. Each new UK coach has to had to face similar problems for more than 50 years. Mark Stoops knew full well the challenges in store for him when he accepted the UK position. After all, the written record is abundantly clear that there have been 10 different UK coaches since Blanton Collier was fired in 1961 and none since Collier managed to win more games than they lost during their respective tenures as the UK coach.

You seem to suggest that much of the UK fans' frustration with Mark Stoops can be attributed to unrealistic expectations which have been fueled by his early recruiting success. After more than a half century of suffering losing football, UK fans do not have unrealistic expectations. UK fans know that even with Stoops getting much better players than his predecessor, his best recruiting class has only been ranked 10th best in the SEC.

Additionally, UK fans know that unlike basketball where a coach can be instantly successful with high quality freshman talent, such is not the case with football. In football, most freshman don't even play. They get red shirted. UK football fans are not Neanderthals. They understand it takes time to recruit better players and to build enough depth to be maximally competitive. If anything, UK football fans have more realistic expectations than you give them credit for having.

UK fans know that it takes recruiting better players to improve UK's pathetic football tradition. We also fully applaud the initial success Mark Stoops has had in recruiting. However, we can also appreciate that such recruiting success will quickly end if the UK head coach continues to create the perception on national television that he doesn't know how to coach. The Vanderbilt game was the tipping point for most of Big Blue Nation to seriously question whether Mark Stoops knows what he is doing.

Stoops' coaching ineptness against a lowly Vanderbilt team was particularly embarrassing. The TV announcing team which covered the game had to devote far too much of their in game commentary and analysis on Stoops' repeated coaching mistakes. Current football commitments and future recruits were watching that game. I don't think it is being unrealistic to assume that these players and their parents may be rethinking their commitments or interest in attending UK.

Finally, I don't believe it is unrealistic for fans to expect that UK's head coach knows how many players he should have on the field, when to call important time outs and how to have an organized football team. I also fail to appreciate the notion that some people have that Stoops' should be given the benefit of doubt to some degree because he is still learning how to be a head coach. Say what??? The job pays more than $3 million dollar a year. He has had more than 20 plus years of significant collegiate coaching experience. He apparently convinced Mitch Barnhart that he could perform the essential functions of performing as a head coach. Thus, I don't believe it is being unrealistic for UK fans to get upset when they observe he is not performing the minimum expectations of the position.

 

[UKCatNnc]

I have seen a lot of very bad football since the 50s so takes a lot to surprise me at this stage. I would say a few things. First this particular season was basically planned out and set up for Coach Stoops. 8 home games and a easier than normal rotation of SEC teams. That in itself is disheartening. I really dont question the players as much as I do the staff. They simply are not prepared. I think one of if not the biggest problems on offense is Stoops. He needs to divorce himself from the offense as he does just about enough to gum up the entire works. We have hired 2 air raid OC's and we are running 25% fewer plays. One OC with those numbers and its an OC problem. 2 OCs and its the HC. There are so many pieces to be fixed I really dont know where to begin.

Well said Calsarmy. Go Cats!!