Merlinz sez the rotations will continue.
http://www.clarionledger.com/story/...continue-rotations-vs-south-alabama/15391679/
http://www.clarionledger.com/story/...continue-rotations-vs-south-alabama/15391679/
Traurig if schnitzel....
- Thread starter drt7891
- Start date
I predict the rotation will stop after this week.
This was soley done for our matchup against LSU. 3 reasons.
1. Experience. We don't have 3 deep 4/5 star players like LSU/AuB/Al. So, why not try and coach up our third teamers....by game 4, Dan KNOWS he has bodies...CAPIBLE bodies. Only way to get there without raw talent is reps.
2. Health. Lets face it. If we lose Dak, we will be glad DayWill was able to get in these reps...and that goes for anyone who goes down. Dans trying to keep the core healthy till LSU.
3. Visual advantage. So LSU will have 3 games to evaluate before playing next week. Yeah, we know..LSU don't need no stinking practice..but don't think for 1 second that we have shown it all. When we take the field in Tiger Stadium our starters will be fresh and ready to roll. Dan is merely doing everything he can to gain any advantage in Tiger stadium as possible. If subing in and out and not showing extended clips of our starting squads helps with deception...hell I'm for whatever it takes to finally win down there.
This was soley done for our matchup against LSU. 3 reasons.
1. Experience. We don't have 3 deep 4/5 star players like LSU/AuB/Al. So, why not try and coach up our third teamers....by game 4, Dan KNOWS he has bodies...CAPIBLE bodies. Only way to get there without raw talent is reps.
2. Health. Lets face it. If we lose Dak, we will be glad DayWill was able to get in these reps...and that goes for anyone who goes down. Dans trying to keep the core healthy till LSU.
3. Visual advantage. So LSU will have 3 games to evaluate before playing next week. Yeah, we know..LSU don't need no stinking practice..but don't think for 1 second that we have shown it all. When we take the field in Tiger Stadium our starters will be fresh and ready to roll. Dan is merely doing everything he can to gain any advantage in Tiger stadium as possible. If subing in and out and not showing extended clips of our starting squads helps with deception...hell I'm for whatever it takes to finally win down there.
I've been hoping that this is the real reason
Not saying I agree with the ploy, just seems like something he's crazy enough to risk a close game with UAB over.
But it would be the most Dan Mullen thing ever to see Williams and the rest of the 1b group trot out on the field for the second possession at tiger stadium.
Not saying I agree with the ploy, just seems like something he's crazy enough to risk a close game with UAB over.
But it would be the most Dan Mullen thing ever to see Williams and the rest of the 1b group trot out on the field for the second possession at tiger stadium.
What does it say about Dan Mullen
that neither me nor a lot of other people would be surprised at all if Damien Williams and the rest of the backups get rotated out every series in the first half against LSU? If that happens, it would be dumber than any in-game decision Croom ever made while he was the head coach here. And that says a lot because Croom did some really dumb things. But I would almost be more surprised if it didn't happen.
that neither me nor a lot of other people would be surprised at all if Damien Williams and the rest of the backups get rotated out every series in the first half against LSU? If that happens, it would be dumber than any in-game decision Croom ever made while he was the head coach here. And that says a lot because Croom did some really dumb things. But I would almost be more surprised if it didn't happen.
i sure hope all of this 1A and 1B stuff is a continued ratcheting-up of the battering ram in preparation of the LSU game, but in doing that, if we lose, its going to crush the team putting all of our eggs in that basket and with aTm and auburn games shortly thereafter, its going to get rough.
its hard to make out what kind of defense we are, to us (the football-knowledgeable fans of our own team)...rest assured, d coordinators will have an equally tough time putting their finger on how good, great, or average we are. we have been shuffling in so many players on both sides of the ball who knows what to expect. when we trot out our legitimate best 11 for the situation, its a total unknown how they will react for an entire game. the only thing that is certain for our opponents is that our kicking game is not a threat.
its hard to make out what kind of defense we are, to us (the football-knowledgeable fans of our own team)...rest assured, d coordinators will have an equally tough time putting their finger on how good, great, or average we are. we have been shuffling in so many players on both sides of the ball who knows what to expect. when we trot out our legitimate best 11 for the situation, its a total unknown how they will react for an entire game. the only thing that is certain for our opponents is that our kicking game is not a threat.
I hate #3 on the list
I just don't buy the advantage of "hiding" our playbook from them. It seems like it would do us more good to use these first three games as a true warm up against LSU. Run the offense we're going to run against LSU, you have 3 games to make sure it works and to perfect it! Nothing we do in practice can simulate true game play, even if it is against UAB and USM.
I'd rather have LSU have 12 quarters of film of a finely tuned offense than, us rolling out plays we've never run in a game before. This is not 6th grade football when you can be the first team to teach a guard to pull and he just clear out a hole every time cause the guy he's blocking has no idea what happened.
Dak needs reps...this offense needs reps.
I just don't buy the advantage of "hiding" our playbook from them. It seems like it would do us more good to use these first three games as a true warm up against LSU. Run the offense we're going to run against LSU, you have 3 games to make sure it works and to perfect it! Nothing we do in practice can simulate true game play, even if it is against UAB and USM.
I'd rather have LSU have 12 quarters of film of a finely tuned offense than, us rolling out plays we've never run in a game before. This is not 6th grade football when you can be the first team to teach a guard to pull and he just clear out a hole every time cause the guy he's blocking has no idea what happened.
Dak needs reps...this offense needs reps.
I mean, I guess... But, his philosophy is so ***-backwards, if this is his intention. As HD6 says, 99% of teams will start starters, then pull them after half, up 28(24 w/missed extras) and ride defense and run game, coasting to a win.
Now, essentially, player health and meaningful reps are the same either way, but with one major difference: We gave UAB a reason to believe and fight too long. We could have crushed them by halftime, but we let them stick around, at our house. On the road, we need to use every advantage we have in size and athleticism to crush USA and their fans as quickly as possible. Then give Damian, Holloway, and the gang time to get meaningful reps.
Now, essentially, player health and meaningful reps are the same either way, but with one major difference: We gave UAB a reason to believe and fight too long. We could have crushed them by halftime, but we let them stick around, at our house. On the road, we need to use every advantage we have in size and athleticism to crush USA and their fans as quickly as possible. Then give Damian, Holloway, and the gang time to get meaningful reps.
One thing y'all aren't noticing from the article:
That could mean Williams rotates in every other series, like in the first half against UAB or it could mean that he gets 1 series, like in the USM game before Dak was taken out when we were up 35-0.
Remember 2012, when we were "hiding our playbook" for the first seven games of the season until we got to the tough games? Yeah, that didn't work out to well. If we have plays, run them, with the starters. We're not going to trick LSU into not knowing what kind of offense we're going to run. Christ, everyone knows what kind of offense Dan Mullen has run since 2006.
Completely disagree. The fact that we continued to give them the ball back after 3 plays led to that. I'm disappointed in the effort by our corners, but it was more the fact our safeties were 8 yards from the LOS that allowed them the chance to air it out over the middle of the field as much as they did. We sold out to stop the run, and it's that simple.
that meaningful reps thing is a good point.
the starters have a hard time getting in a rhythm and so too do the backups. it does benefit the backups from an experience standpoint to give them a whole half to work through their own issues in a series consecutive manner. late in the 3rd quarter, there are on the sideline still struggling to work out the kinks while the first team is getting the lead back. its all about rhythm and its difficult for anyone to get a rhythm playing the manner we have been. the way we are doing it is actually taking snaps away from the second team because they have are having to struggle to get consistency because they get every other series and have difficulty correcting mistakes from the series before.
the starters have a hard time getting in a rhythm and so too do the backups. it does benefit the backups from an experience standpoint to give them a whole half to work through their own issues in a series consecutive manner. late in the 3rd quarter, there are on the sideline still struggling to work out the kinks while the first team is getting the lead back. its all about rhythm and its difficult for anyone to get a rhythm playing the manner we have been. the way we are doing it is actually taking snaps away from the second team because they have are having to struggle to get consistency because they get every other series and have difficulty correcting mistakes from the series before.
Kinda, but it was a lot more situational. Tebow was brought in on the short yardage plays much like Dak was brought in his freshman and first part of last year. If they just received possession at their own 20, Leak was going in. Williams doesn't offer any abilities Dak doesn't have, so we shouldn't be rotating Williams in except for garbage time.
Valid point.. I feel like we turned it back over too quickly, though, with three and outs that led to the UAB lead on two back to back TDs, on said turd efforts. When UAB cut it to 13-10, we trotted 2nd team offense back out there for a 3 and out, giving UAB a momentum swing, which they scored on the first play. I'm not saying it automatically led to points, cause we shat the bed on those bomb TDs, but it definitely helped them hang around early on in the game.
My point is more just frustration and fear that we'll do this on the road against USA, not putting us in the best position to win.
My point is more just frustration and fear that we'll do this on the road against USA, not putting us in the best position to win.
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When I speak of deception, im thinking the less we show the personnel the less chances LSU can make the quick audibles. This works for defense as well. When Jennings is trying to exploit particular matchups...the less they know the better for us however you wanna spin it. Now, is that the main reason for the substitutions, absolutely not. But it has to be noted.
I sometimes forget my **
Look, I love Mullinz, he's big dork and makes me scratch my head every game. But I support this descision. I don't think it's hurt us in any way so far.
HE IS OUR DORK.
Why in the world do some of you think this? It is beyond obvious the the SOLE reason for rotating QB's is to give Damien halfway meaningful reps while we're playing weak teams. There is absolutely NO advantage to rotating Damien in against a good team, so why do you expect Dan to do it? If he does, then he is certifiably insane. The ONLY way we see Damien in the game before the 3rd quarter in another game past this Saturday, save UTM and maybe Vandy, is if, higher powers forbid, Dak is injured. Book it.
Someone gets it.
There is no replacement for valuable experience. Williams coming in and playing when its 7 to 0 us or even when we are down means a helluva lot more than him playing when it is out of hand at 28 or 35 to zero. If someone disagrees, I can't help them.
We have played a ton of people (with some talent) on defense and offense over the first two games. They have gotten valuable experience even when the game wasn't out of hand. We still won both games easily. We have never had the luxury of being this talented with depth. I'm gonna enjoy it.
There is no replacement for valuable experience. Williams coming in and playing when its 7 to 0 us or even when we are down means a helluva lot more than him playing when it is out of hand at 28 or 35 to zero. If someone disagrees, I can't help them.
We have played a ton of people (with some talent) on defense and offense over the first two games. They have gotten valuable experience even when the game wasn't out of hand. We still won both games easily. We have never had the luxury of being this talented with depth. I'm gonna enjoy it.
That's one side to it, but the other side is that your first team offense is NOT getting meaningful reps. To me, it's a mindset... I wanted us to come in to this weekend like a dress rehearsal of next week. I wanted to approach this week with the same intensity, approach, and mindset to everything we do because it's as much a psychological game. With tht approach, I'm almost certain we win this week... And that gives us confidence, as well as a reference point and foundation to next week. It's a place to go. You can't just flip on a switch and expect everything to click because the second things go wrong, you are more likely to panic.
I want every game to be approached the same, whether it's number 1 Alabama or Alcon state. To this point, that's not been the case and I hope it doesn't hurt us next week.
I want every game to be approached the same, whether it's number 1 Alabama or Alcon state. To this point, that's not been the case and I hope it doesn't hurt us next week.
I would rather us using those meaningful reps to polish our starters rather than polishing the backups. Dak and 1a are a talented bunch but people forget that they aren't the most experienced group.
I think it is much less an issue...
If either:
1. The defense doesn't have the top come off on deep ball after deep ball, or
2. Damien moves the ball.
A stagnant offense with him in the game is much more concerning than the rotation itself. I don't think Dan will trott him out there against LSU unless something is wrong with Dak.
If either:
1. The defense doesn't have the top come off on deep ball after deep ball, or
2. Damien moves the ball.
A stagnant offense with him in the game is much more concerning than the rotation itself. I don't think Dan will trott him out there against LSU unless something is wrong with Dak.
But lets not forget that our entire 2nd team defense was in there on 2 of the bombs, and 3rd team on the one on Sills.
The fact than anyone can defend how our staff is using our QBs just blows my mind.
RIGHT NOW, I don't have a problem with rotating the defense. The problem will come, as it consistently has, when Mullen does the same thing against LSU. And it will happen, and it is Mullen, because it has happened consistently under several different DCs. Instead of staggering defensive substitutions, they bring in the whole 2nd unit. And who gives a damn about the particular situation they might be in, they are going in. Same with RBs, you get a whole series fella, doesnt matter if you get dog-tired or the down and distance doesnt suit your particular skill-set.
It's horrible.
The fact than anyone can defend how our staff is using our QBs just blows my mind.
RIGHT NOW, I don't have a problem with rotating the defense. The problem will come, as it consistently has, when Mullen does the same thing against LSU. And it will happen, and it is Mullen, because it has happened consistently under several different DCs. Instead of staggering defensive substitutions, they bring in the whole 2nd unit. And who gives a damn about the particular situation they might be in, they are going in. Same with RBs, you get a whole series fella, doesnt matter if you get dog-tired or the down and distance doesnt suit your particular skill-set.
It's horrible.
that, and we didn't let Dak run until we actually needed the points.
Dak basically had three series where he ran the ball extensively - the one after they went up in the second quarter, and then the next two. We scored touchdowns on those series, easily. Dan can mash the gas when he wants to, and Dak running is integral to the offense working. But he doesn't want to against these teams, because each run increases the risk to our most important player on the team. If you look, even Damien only ran the ball twice, once in the first series he was in, and once in the fourth quarter to get a first and keep posession. I think he's playing smart here.
Dak basically had three series where he ran the ball extensively - the one after they went up in the second quarter, and then the next two. We scored touchdowns on those series, easily. Dan can mash the gas when he wants to, and Dak running is integral to the offense working. But he doesn't want to against these teams, because each run increases the risk to our most important player on the team. If you look, even Damien only ran the ball twice, once in the first series he was in, and once in the fourth quarter to get a first and keep posession. I think he's playing smart here.
Not getting into the main argument again. This horse is dead.
I would like to ask about the idea of "meaningful reps". I don't really understand the concept that well. Shirley I am missing something.
I cannot remember ever being around a second string guy who didn't go all out when he finally got in the game, regardless of the score. The backs and receivers always wanted to score and the defense always wanted sacks, tackles for loss, and interceptions. For most of these guys fighting for a starting job, they play as hard as possible even in a blow out.
Some of you are arguing for meaningful reps in one sentence and then following it with the idea that we are not showing much of our offense in the next sentence. So I ask, if we are looking for meaningful reps, then why not run the offense? Why not show all of our blitz packages? Being up by 3 or up by 30 is the same damn reps if you supposedly don't run the plays we will run in Baton Rouge.
I would like to ask about the idea of "meaningful reps". I don't really understand the concept that well. Shirley I am missing something.
I cannot remember ever being around a second string guy who didn't go all out when he finally got in the game, regardless of the score. The backs and receivers always wanted to score and the defense always wanted sacks, tackles for loss, and interceptions. For most of these guys fighting for a starting job, they play as hard as possible even in a blow out.
Some of you are arguing for meaningful reps in one sentence and then following it with the idea that we are not showing much of our offense in the next sentence. So I ask, if we are looking for meaningful reps, then why not run the offense? Why not show all of our blitz packages? Being up by 3 or up by 30 is the same damn reps if you supposedly don't run the plays we will run in Baton Rouge.
Some have claimed it is meaningful if the game is still in question. I just don't get that concept if we are supposedly going vanilla with play calls.
Let's get real. Did any of you think deep down we were going to lose that game? We all know what we have. Dak came in, took care of business when needed. I was pissed for most of the game, yes. Did I ever think we would lose, no. So yeah, Dorkfish murllens gets weird for the first 3 games. Are you really surprised? If you are, read my 3 step guide above.
Then we agree. In an unquestionable win situation, all reps in the game are made equal. We both think these statements are off (below):
Earlier in thread from Paindonhurt:
"There is no replacement for valuable experience. Williams coming in and playing when its 7 to 0 us or even when we are down means a helluva lot more than him playing when it is out of hand at 28 or 35 to zero. If someone disagrees, I can't help them."
Drt and Uptown
Who says that isn't what we do this week at USA? And if we don't?
People are saying its crazy playing the second group so often and early. Well there are two sides to that. Yes, the first team doesn't get as much polish or rhythm one way and the second team gets more experience. Flip it and the first team gets what you think they need but no meaningful snaps for second team. Its like any situation. There are two sides. You way the positives and negatives for each scenario and then decide. It appears Dan thinks there are more positives to get the talented second team more experience.
I'm gonna go with his judgement over the average sixpack poster. Not that I don't think he ever makes a mistake and I'm going to blindly follow. But b/c I'm sure he didn't just wake up and say 17 it, I think I'll rotate the two groups at random with the flip of my head set.
Who says that isn't what we do this week at USA? And if we don't?
People are saying its crazy playing the second group so often and early. Well there are two sides to that. Yes, the first team doesn't get as much polish or rhythm one way and the second team gets more experience. Flip it and the first team gets what you think they need but no meaningful snaps for second team. Its like any situation. There are two sides. You way the positives and negatives for each scenario and then decide. It appears Dan thinks there are more positives to get the talented second team more experience.
I'm gonna go with his judgement over the average sixpack poster. Not that I don't think he ever makes a mistake and I'm going to blindly follow. But b/c I'm sure he didn't just wake up and say 17 it, I think I'll rotate the two groups at random with the flip of my head set.