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- Thread starter BiscuitEater
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Earning a six-figure income sitting out in centerfield is pretty appealing, no matter who you are.
..you can't rebuild a football program if you lose anything above 15% of your top 9 or so recruits. You will not hear Houston Nutt bragging to the media about that statistic.
I take it you're counting Mayers who was always thought to be a sign and place.<div>
</div><div>I'm honestly curious who you consider number three. Surely you aren't celebrating the injury of Wood. </div><div>
</div><div>No, you'd never do that.</div><div>
</div><div>Edited: I can't type "Golson."</div>
</div><div>I'm honestly curious who you consider number three. Surely you aren't celebrating the injury of Wood. </div><div>
</div><div>No, you'd never do that.</div><div>
</div><div>Edited: I can't type "Golson."</div>
regardless of what they rank or if they are your best 3 on paper or whatever, according to the UM website, there are 22 signees listed for February 2011. Of those 22, only 18 are on the roster if Golson leaves. That's what's gotten you dumbasses in the bind you are in but you are too 17ing stupid or proud or something to realize it. That's the real issue at hand. When you sign 22-25 new players every year, you HAVE to have retention of those players. Everyone is going to lose 1-2. Everyone is going to have 1-2 that stay but are never more than special teamers and scout team guys. But you have GOT to get a higher percentage of players that stick for 4-5 years and contribute to your 2 deep.
On paper on signing day the last few years, you guys have supposedly signed a higher ranked class than State. However, if we are keeping all of our 3 star players and they are developing them into quality contributers, then our class ends up beating the hell out of yours when yours is reduced by a signficant percentage. You, or anyone, just can't afford to miss on so many players these days because nobody has ever won a game in February contrary to the belief of the UM fansbase. It starts there, but it ends 4 years down the road when you see how many of those guys made it, stuck it out, and won games for you.
On paper on signing day the last few years, you guys have supposedly signed a higher ranked class than State. However, if we are keeping all of our 3 star players and they are developing them into quality contributers, then our class ends up beating the hell out of yours when yours is reduced by a signficant percentage. You, or anyone, just can't afford to miss on so many players these days because nobody has ever won a game in February contrary to the belief of the UM fansbase. It starts there, but it ends 4 years down the road when you see how many of those guys made it, stuck it out, and won games for you.
<div>Syd and Harrys said:
</div>Yes I was counting Wood. I've never heard of a school not honoring a letter of intent due to an injury. That makes OM look even worse. State would bring him in under scholarship and help heal him.<div>
</div><div>So that's 2011 signees Wood, Mayers, Gholson, and Mikail Miller that aren't on scholarship this fall. 3 of OM's top 9 and 4 of OM's top 14 signees. With a true reranking made using the same point system, your 2011 class would fall deep into the 30's.</div><div>
</div><div>When OM coaches and fans were proclaiming that OM had a great signing class, no one was correcting them with "well, Mayers will probably be a sign and place, and if someone gets hurt after signing day we're not going to give them a scholarship, and we're also not likely to get all of the rest of 'em in,". But that's what has happened with every class that Nutt has signed at OM. February team recruiting rankings don't mean much, but they mean even less in regards to Ole Miss.</div><div>
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This is my first post but i had too, reply. I mean are yall just making stuff up? how in world is Makail Miller a top 9 signee? he is enrolled in school and is a greyshirt... its not that he didnt make grades, Why would a top nine signee only be offered a greyshirt?? same for wood, where in world do you see he is a top9 signee? i beg to differ he is another of the two grey shirts and will enroll in january, Mayers was a known sign and place(state did this with a guy also remember)...... Gholson would hurt, and might be considered a top nine signee, but you are just making the rest up to feel better.... Ranking the OM signees, Your information is just a lie to make you feel better about yourself
according to rivals
1. Johson
2. Brassell
3. Moncrief
4. Aaron Morris
5. Cody Prewitt
6. Tobias Singleton
7. Senquez Gholson (The best maybe not to be here)
8.Ethan Hudson
9.Marcus meyers (known sign and place)
10. Collins Moore
11.Jamal Mosely \
12. Gilbert Pena
13.Justin bell
14. Chief Brown
15.A. Garbutt
16. U. Grant
17. Mitch Hall
18. W. Hamilton
19. K Lewis
20. M. Miller (greyshirt)
21. I. Nicolas
22.W. pendleton
23. Z. stoudt
24. K wood (greyshirt)
25. .Tj worthy
26. s. bryant
27. p. moore
28. D. Nkdemche
(also add 4star army all american and parade all american Barry Brunetti too)
26
according to rivals
1. Johson
2. Brassell
3. Moncrief
4. Aaron Morris
5. Cody Prewitt
6. Tobias Singleton
7. Senquez Gholson (The best maybe not to be here)
8.Ethan Hudson
9.Marcus meyers (known sign and place)
10. Collins Moore
11.Jamal Mosely \
12. Gilbert Pena
13.Justin bell
14. Chief Brown
15.A. Garbutt
16. U. Grant
17. Mitch Hall
18. W. Hamilton
19. K Lewis
20. M. Miller (greyshirt)
21. I. Nicolas
22.W. pendleton
23. Z. stoudt
24. K wood (greyshirt)
25. .Tj worthy
26. s. bryant
27. p. moore
28. D. Nkdemche
(also add 4star army all american and parade all american Barry Brunetti too)
26
The 22 signees are people enrolled after January. Here is list of 2011 enrollees, why dont you post accurate info
1. Johson (enrolled)
2. Brassell (enolled)
3. Moncrief (enrolled)
4. Aaron Morris (enrolled)
5. Cody Prewitt (enrolled)
6. Tobias Singleton (enrolled)
7. Senquez Gholson (enrolled, but obviously could sign)
8.Ethan Hudson (enrolled)
9.Marcus meyers (known sign and place)
10. Collins Moore (enrolled)
11.Jamal Mosely \(enrolled)
12. Gilbert Pena (enrolled)
13.Justin bell (enrolled)
14. Chief Brown (enrolled)
15.A. Garbutt (enrolled)
16. U. Grant (enrolled)
17. Mitch Hall (enrolled)
18. W. Hamilton (enrolled)
19. K Lewis (enrolled)
20. M. Miller (greyshirt, will enroll in jan.)
21. I. Nicolas (enrolled)
22.W. pendleton (enrolled)
23. Z. stoudt (enrolled)
24. K wood (greyshirt, will enroll in jan)
25. .Tj worthy (enrolled)
26. s. bryant (enrolled)
27. p. moore (enrolled)
28. D. Nkdemche (enrolled)
Thats 25 enrolled in school with Gholson could be 24 without, also add brunetti so thats 25 or 26Rebels for this class enrolled. Also two greyshirts will be coming in january too..... Meyers is only casulty so far, with Gholson possible, and we knew meyers situation.....
1. Johson (enrolled)
2. Brassell (enolled)
3. Moncrief (enrolled)
4. Aaron Morris (enrolled)
5. Cody Prewitt (enrolled)
6. Tobias Singleton (enrolled)
7. Senquez Gholson (enrolled, but obviously could sign)
8.Ethan Hudson (enrolled)
9.Marcus meyers (known sign and place)
10. Collins Moore (enrolled)
11.Jamal Mosely \(enrolled)
12. Gilbert Pena (enrolled)
13.Justin bell (enrolled)
14. Chief Brown (enrolled)
15.A. Garbutt (enrolled)
16. U. Grant (enrolled)
17. Mitch Hall (enrolled)
18. W. Hamilton (enrolled)
19. K Lewis (enrolled)
20. M. Miller (greyshirt, will enroll in jan.)
21. I. Nicolas (enrolled)
22.W. pendleton (enrolled)
23. Z. stoudt (enrolled)
24. K wood (greyshirt, will enroll in jan)
25. .Tj worthy (enrolled)
26. s. bryant (enrolled)
27. p. moore (enrolled)
28. D. Nkdemche (enrolled)
Thats 25 enrolled in school with Gholson could be 24 without, also add brunetti so thats 25 or 26Rebels for this class enrolled. Also two greyshirts will be coming in january too..... Meyers is only casulty so far, with Gholson possible, and we knew meyers situation.....
1. Johnson<div>2. Brassell</div><div>3. Singleton</div><div>4. Moncrief</div><div>5. Golson</div><div>6. Morris</div><div>7. Hutson</div><div>8. Wood</div><div>9. Miller</div><div>10. Lewis</div><div>11. Moore</div><div>12. Hall</div><div>13. Brown</div><div>14. Mayers</div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><div>I understand Jacksonville State was very intimidated by your vaunted recruiting classes, and I'm sure BYU is quaking in their boots as well.</div><div style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); font-weight: bold; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#ff00ff">
</font></span></div><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">according to rivals[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">1. Johson[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">2. Brassell[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">3. Moncrief[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">4. Aaron Morris[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">5. Cody Prewitt[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">6. Tobias Singleton[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">7. Senquez Gholson (The best maybe not to be here)[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">8.Ethan Hudson[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">9.Marcus meyers (known sign and place)[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">10. Collins Moore[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">11.Jamal Mosely \[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">12. Gilbert Pena[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">13.Justin bell[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">14. Chief Brown[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">15.A. Garbutt[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">16. U. Grant[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">17. Mitch Hall[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">18. W. Hamilton[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">19. K Lewis[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">20. M. Miller (greyshirt)[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">21. I. Nicolas[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">22.W. pendleton[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">23. Z. stoudt[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">24. K wood (greyshirt)[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">25. .Tj worthy[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">26. s. bryant[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">27. p. moore[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">28. D. Nkdemche[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">(also add 4star army all american and parade all american Barry Brunetti too)[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">26[/b]</span>
</font></span></div><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">according to rivals[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">1. Johson[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">2. Brassell[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">3. Moncrief[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">4. Aaron Morris[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">5. Cody Prewitt[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">6. Tobias Singleton[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">7. Senquez Gholson (The best maybe not to be here)[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">8.Ethan Hudson[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">9.Marcus meyers (known sign and place)[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">10. Collins Moore[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">11.Jamal Mosely \[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">12. Gilbert Pena[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">13.Justin bell[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">14. Chief Brown[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">15.A. Garbutt[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">16. U. Grant[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">17. Mitch Hall[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">18. W. Hamilton[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">19. K Lewis[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">20. M. Miller (greyshirt)[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">21. I. Nicolas[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">22.W. pendleton[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">23. Z. stoudt[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">24. K wood (greyshirt)[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">25. .Tj worthy[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">26. s. bryant[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">27. p. moore[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">28. D. Nkdemche[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">(also add 4star army all american and parade all american Barry Brunetti too)[/b]<br style="min-width: 0px; "><b style="color: rgb(255, 0, 255); ">26[/b]</span>
I could care less what some rankings system said. MSU's supposedly great classes crashed and burned, leaving me seriously unimpressed with the ability of the gurus to rank recruiting success. I could care less where Scout ranks our classes with respect to yours. Here's what I do know: you guys are not retaining players for 4-5 years. MState has been there before and it killed our teams. I've come to realize that you can win with a bunch of unheralded 3 and 2 star players if you get them on campus, keep them on campus for 4-5 years, and develop them. This is exactly what State and Ole Miss must do. Ole Miss has absolutely failed at this, which is why they stunk last year and will again this year. It isn't about rankings, it's about recruiting, retaining, and developing players.
..to success.
MSU & OM can't afford to lose players to attrition like the other SEC schools.
As a rule of thumb, any SEC recruit, no matter the stars, who is willing to endure the rigors of SEC football for 4 years will turn out to be a servicable player.
That's one thing that killed Jackie in his last 3 years: His previous recruiting classes, for various reasons, were disappearing. The result showed up throughout most of the 2000's.
Show me 20 two star recruits who are going to hang tough for four years & I will show you an at least 6-6 record when they are seniors.
Yet show me 20 three & four star recruits who are gone after one or two years & I will show you the Ole Miss football program of 2011.
MSU & OM can't afford to lose players to attrition like the other SEC schools.
As a rule of thumb, any SEC recruit, no matter the stars, who is willing to endure the rigors of SEC football for 4 years will turn out to be a servicable player.
That's one thing that killed Jackie in his last 3 years: His previous recruiting classes, for various reasons, were disappearing. The result showed up throughout most of the 2000's.
Show me 20 two star recruits who are going to hang tough for four years & I will show you an at least 6-6 record when they are seniors.
Yet show me 20 three & four star recruits who are gone after one or two years & I will show you the Ole Miss football program of 2011.
17 ur recruiting rankings. Jackie's 2002 and 2003 classes were #17 and #20 according to Scout and we see how they turned out. Means zilch. If OM holds onto these players and develops them into great football players they might pull out and get back on track. If not, they are looking at a drought not unlike State's in the middle of the 2000's.
the JUCO contributors in Mosely (starter), Grant (likely starter, at worst 2nd team), Pena (in rotation), Garbutt (2nd team), and Pendleton (2nd team).
Not to mention Nkemdiche (2 deep), Keith Lewis (2 deep), and TJ Worthy were always going to play more than Wood or Miler over the next 2-3 years. As for Wood, I'd say we're doing him a favor by saving him a year of eligibility by getting him to greyshirt instead of wasting an entire year of eligibility on recovery from a shoulder injury....and if you don't think the football support staff will be involved in his rehab you have lost your mind.
Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming...
Not to mention Nkemdiche (2 deep), Keith Lewis (2 deep), and TJ Worthy were always going to play more than Wood or Miler over the next 2-3 years. As for Wood, I'd say we're doing him a favor by saving him a year of eligibility by getting him to greyshirt instead of wasting an entire year of eligibility on recovery from a shoulder injury....and if you don't think the football support staff will be involved in his rehab you have lost your mind.
Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming...
We'll see how good the Juco guys are. We are experts on this type of thing and know how it can blow up in your face.
So who are you counting?
I can't blame Golson for going. I assume he is, though I don't think it's official yet.
Are you including Kameron Wood? I think he's injured and may not officially go on scholarship until January. Are you including Miller? He's grayshirting?
Mayers was a sign and place from the get go.
Outside of Mayers and maybe Golson, everyone we signed is on campus or at least going to be a part of the team in January.
I can't blame Golson for going. I assume he is, though I don't think it's official yet.
Are you including Kameron Wood? I think he's injured and may not officially go on scholarship until January. Are you including Miller? He's grayshirting?
Mayers was a sign and place from the get go.
Outside of Mayers and maybe Golson, everyone we signed is on campus or at least going to be a part of the team in January.
Disagree. Attrition itself is not a bad thing. Retention of players who didn't turn out to be as good as you thought they'd be actually hurts you by taking away spots where you can sign players that still have potential.
In a perfect world, you would sign 25 each year, be able to redshirt all of them, watch them develop and over time eventually cut them back to the top 17. That's what Saban essentially does, though since you're not redshirting every year and you're not cutting the same number every year and some players leave on their own accord, the numbers aren't uniform.
We've had too much bad attrition, but I don't think attrition is bad if it's when we're essentially cutting players like we did with Lekenwic Haynes, Terrance Hackney, and Dele Junaid this past year. That's what I call good attrition, cutting players that aren't good enough to make room for your next crop. Sometimes a player just isn't good enough, and that happens in every class no matter how good you are at evaluating and/or developing talent. You can keep them on the roster for 4 or 5 years, but it's a waste of a roster space if you brought them in, they didn't pan out, and you're keeping them.
If you don't have room to take in 25 and you don't make room to take in 25 in each class, you're decreasing the number of players you sign that could eventually be great. You never know when not having room for that 23rd, 24th, or 25th player may end up being the next Titus Brown or Patrick Willis that you had to let go because you didn't have room. If you get them to campus, then at least you get a few years to evaluate them, and if they turn into nothing, you can let them go.
And yes, I'm all for cuts. College Football isn't about educating people or being nice. It's a cut throat game about winning. If a player or two loses his scholarship for not cutting the mustard, then he no longer deserves his scholarship which was given to him in the first place based on his perceived athletic abilities.
In a perfect world, you would sign 25 each year, be able to redshirt all of them, watch them develop and over time eventually cut them back to the top 17. That's what Saban essentially does, though since you're not redshirting every year and you're not cutting the same number every year and some players leave on their own accord, the numbers aren't uniform.
We've had too much bad attrition, but I don't think attrition is bad if it's when we're essentially cutting players like we did with Lekenwic Haynes, Terrance Hackney, and Dele Junaid this past year. That's what I call good attrition, cutting players that aren't good enough to make room for your next crop. Sometimes a player just isn't good enough, and that happens in every class no matter how good you are at evaluating and/or developing talent. You can keep them on the roster for 4 or 5 years, but it's a waste of a roster space if you brought them in, they didn't pan out, and you're keeping them.
If you don't have room to take in 25 and you don't make room to take in 25 in each class, you're decreasing the number of players you sign that could eventually be great. You never know when not having room for that 23rd, 24th, or 25th player may end up being the next Titus Brown or Patrick Willis that you had to let go because you didn't have room. If you get them to campus, then at least you get a few years to evaluate them, and if they turn into nothing, you can let them go.
And yes, I'm all for cuts. College Football isn't about educating people or being nice. It's a cut throat game about winning. If a player or two loses his scholarship for not cutting the mustard, then he no longer deserves his scholarship which was given to him in the first place based on his perceived athletic abilities.
Now tell me again what the 17 greyshirting is. Hootie says to recruit, "come up to oxford and hang out for a year.....you won't havea spot on the team nor be in school, but next year you will have bot and we're gonna have arootin tootin good time?"
While I like the fact that more information is available and that information spreads at an exponentially quicker rate, it creates the environment where there is a fight to be the one to break the big story.
So not only do you have bloggers and average Joes that run with any rumor they get, but you have general media members that do the same without any knowledge of the situation.
This whole deal was a good example. It sounds in hindsight like the deal between Golson and the Red Sox was completely up in the air until the final hour before the deadline last night, yet you had legitimate media sources reporting throughout the day that they heard he had signed, or they heard he wasn't going to sign. Even if they were right, they were wrong, because the decision wasn't final.
So not only do you have bloggers and average Joes that run with any rumor they get, but you have general media members that do the same without any knowledge of the situation.
This whole deal was a good example. It sounds in hindsight like the deal between Golson and the Red Sox was completely up in the air until the final hour before the deadline last night, yet you had legitimate media sources reporting throughout the day that they heard he had signed, or they heard he wasn't going to sign. Even if they were right, they were wrong, because the decision wasn't final.