Uh oh!
- Thread starter WVPATX
- Start date
The Ku Klux Klan is going to hold a rally in support of the Rebel flag. How can anyone take pride in a flag that the KKK rallies in support of? It's surreal.
That was my first thought as well. If people are offended by someone elses flag they are the one with a problem.
I've known Holocaust survivors who have some issues with the Nazi flag. I wouldn't classify their issue with that as their problem.
And here we go again comparing the confederacy with the holocaust. Heres your sign.
If you read what I responded to, flag was generic. Did I make a comparison of the Confederacy to the Nazis? Methinks you doth protest too much.
It's a valid comparison. Both are flags of bad guys that fortunately lost the war. The only difference is that the Germans were decent enough to ditch the Nazi flag afterwards.
I assumed reasonable people would get my point. I was wrong apparently. Let me know when you find some confederacy survivors to teach us of the atrocities of southerners.
Are you suggesting that ever "bad guy" that loses a war should adopt the flag of the winner of the war? That is a valid question for comparison.
Who won Viet Nam war? Whose flag flies over countries after one side declares victory and goes home? You do present some very difficult scenarios,
Amazing, and SAD, that the majority of the nation would want to celebrate the flag of people who broke away from our NATION! That's it, I'm putting up my Benedict Arnold display today.....
You are right....it's not like the south murdered millions of Africans from 1600's to the 1900's....you are right. Nazism was by far worse for the Jews than the southerner was to African-Americans or any white person who helped them.....[pfftt]
Millions of Africans were murdered in the south? Apparently many of those happened before the south was settled by europeans.
Is that you knox?
If you're trying to break away from your country and you lose then yeah, you have to adopt the flag of the winner, which was your own flag before you tried to break away.
North Vietnam and South Vietnam each had their own flags. The flag of the winner flies today and the flag of the loser does not.
When we're talking about different countries then the loser doesn't have to fly the flag of the winner but they do have to change flags, like both Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan did after WW 2.
My point was that your statement that those offended by a flag are the ones with the problem. I cited a counter example.
I think you are predicting rather than reporting news. When will American Flag fly over those countries? To the winner goes the spoils? that is a solution I proposed years ago. We need to maintain the strongest military. Those countries that are financing us get paid back when we win another war. China is getting to be a bit of a challenge. They are building and our military is being torn down. Could China own us financially and militarily?
Only because it doesn't fit your assigned rule. A counter example is a counter example. I could use the ISIS flag to Christians in the ME as an example too. The point is that someone's distaste for a flag isn't necessarily the problem of the offended party.
There weren't millions of blacks murdered during that time frame, he'll there weren't even that many in bondage, or even close to it.
The number of AAs "murdered" or died as a result of captivity were less than those killed in a single large battle of the civil war.
Way to argue with no idea of perspective.
Japan lost WW 2 so they no longer fly the flag they did in WW 2. Same with Nazi Germany. I don't know about Italy.
I was surfing C-Span Book TV and I came across the video below from about 10 years ago and I have to admit I have a much broader perspective on this now than I did before.
http://www.c-span.org/video/?189466-1/john-coski-confederate-battle-flag
The most comprehensive analysis of shipping records over the course of the slave trade is the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade Database, edited by professors David Eltis and David Richardson. (While the editors are careful to say that all of their figures are estimates, I believe that they are the best estimates that we have, the proverbial "gold standard" in the field of the study of the slave trade.) Between 1525 and 1866, in the entire history of the slave trade to the New World, according to the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade Database, 12.5 million Africans were shipped to the New World. 10.7 million survived the dreaded Middle Passage, disembarking in North America, the Caribbean and South America.
And how many of these 10.7 million Africans were shipped directly to North America? Only about 388,000. That's right: a tiny percentage.
In fact, the overwhelming percentage of the African slaves were shipped directly to the Caribbean and South America; Brazil received 4.86 million Africans alone! Some scholars estimate that another 60,000 to 70,000 Africans ended up in the United States after touching down in the Caribbean first, so that would bring the total to approximately 450,000 Africans who arrived in the United States over the course of the slave trade.
According to the 1860 US Census, there were 3,950,000 slave in the US. Multiple sources confirm this. You were wrong.
Wrong about the total number not about the other part, and were still less than the Jews
First off, the transatlantic slave trade was outlawed by the US Congress in 1808. From that point forward, the "slave trading" came from breeding the slaves that Americans already had.
Still, millions of Jews died. That's horrible. Hundreds to thousands of African-Americans were lynched, whipped, and/or killed for simply the color of their skin. That's horrible as well. Putting a number on one and saying "that was worse" is....well.....stupid.
And yet you were the one that did.
Regardless, I'm not defending slavery etc. I'm not even a fan of the confederate flag or what it represents to me and that isn't racism. It's something far worse.....NASCAR fans. Scourge of society.
Just points trying to be made by both sides are equally asinine. For every point badly made there are 10 counterpoints to cite as examples of the stupidity. I will say this, you can buy everything you need off of amazon to make an IED, start a meth lab, or build a moonshine stil. Yet, the confederate flag is no more. It's comical to me as is people still talking about slavery 150 years after the fact as if it's the problem keeping AA's from prospering today.
Last edited:
The Confederate Flag is no more? You jackasses, in typical "our country is going to hell because of evil liberalism" fashion, act like it's been banned by the govt. It hasn't. The flag is repulsive to a significant percentage of our population. The flag can still be bought. But many businesses see the ramifications of continuing to sell this flag. May piss off paying customers. You know, capitalism. Market forces. What you conservatives are always pointing to as the solution to everything.
Regardless, the flag is rude to display publically. It offends many who see it. If you want to be a jerk, fly the flag. But under no circumstances should this flag be flown over any publically owned facility. Period. Even the governor of SC and many other southern states agree. Yet you morons continue to defend the display and ridicule those who think displaying it is offensive. It is mindboggling that many in the GOP continue to have this backwards view of the country.
150 years in history is a relative short period of time. That's why people still talk about it. That's why not many talk about slavery of the ancient world (too far ago).
The Confederate flag isn't racist. The people carrying and waving it while holding racist views are.
The Holocaust and slavery may not be comparable in your mind, but they can be. People died because of their race/ethnicity. The number shouldn't matter. What about the Armenian Genocide? It gets no publicity in history, but it resulted in the deaths of millions.
I was really shocked (and ultra impressed) with Dale Earnhardt Jr.'s response when asked about the flag. I expected either a "no comment" or a semi-supportive response. But for someone like him to come out and say it only belongs in a history book, and that's it, was shocking to me. Kudos to him.
You find one post where I said it should stay up. I actually said day of that it should come down but support anyone's right to fly if they choose. I agree that it shouldn't be on display in public in capacity other than a Civil War battlefield.
You were complaining about the fact that stores are refusing to sell the flags. And that it doesn't represent racism to you. Sounds to me like you are defending it.
You know my feelings about it. I think it needs to come down. However, the flag itself is NOT RACIST. The KKK carried the American flag, too. Native Americans have said "racist" claims on the American flag for decades. Do you believe that?
The Confederate Flag was a battle flag. I disagree over people's "heritage" remarks, because I take that to mean that they are celebrating a group of people who tried to tear our country apart with their treasonous actions. The flag should be in history books, battlefield memorials, and Confederate graves. That's it.
You know damn well I didn't mean winning countries in war impose THEIR OWN flag on the loser but rather gets to say and if it's one country, like a civil war, it's the flag of the country. I tried to save time by not explaining in depth each specific case, figuring people would know what I mean.
And if Japan flies the same flag today that they flew in WW 2 then that's news to me.