UK verses UL recruiting down the stretch

[Pike 96]

I hate to even say this because i don't want to jinx anything(I am knocking on serious wood) but with Burns(Trinity boy) flipping, UL has actually lost more players than us to decommitment since the end of the year. Burns to OSU and Fitzpatrick, 4 star WR, decommitted and seems to be Nebraska bound. On top of that, they have missed out on several players they've gone after late(a linebacker to Oklahoma and a LB to Arkansas along with several Running back targets). They also have three of their more highly rated committed players(Pass, Blue, and Boykin) still looking around. Although Pass seems solid currently after a trip to BAMA.

All said, if things hold, it would be pretty crazy to have them struggle with Decommits and misses on final prospects after finishing the season strong (with an *** whopping over us and beating A&M). while we keep our class together(minus Smith to USC) and add some nice pieces even with the implosion at the end of the year and subsequent hand ringing over expected mass decommitments.

Most posters on their board are perplexed already with how we recruit the way we are, but stay true to their delusion that Honest bob will ALWAYS be a winner regardless of whether he gets beat in recruiting consistently or not. It would put a serious smile on my face for the next 10 days to maintain its current trajectory for both programs.

Knock on wood again....

 

[Snowcats86]

They actually have had 2 more. Buchanan (UofL legacy db from GA) flip to Tennessee and a lb from Soutn Carolina- Brunson flip to USC. We both have lost a flip to the Gamecocks. Both UK and UofL will finish with solid class's though. UK likely finishing somewhere in the 20s while UofL will likely finish in the 30s

 

[vhcat70]

Don't see us competing with LV in recruiting. We get ours, they get theirs.

 

[Pike 96]

They actually have had 2 more. Buchanan (UofL legacy db from GA) flip to Tennessee and a lb from Soutn Carolina- Brunson flip to USC. We both have lost a flip to the Gamecocks. Both UK and UofL will finish with solid class's though. UK likely finishing somewhere in the 20s while UofL will likely finish in the 30s

Good catch..forgot about those 2 guys. And Buchanan was a legacy. That makes 4 guys they've had decommit with 3 of them already flipping since the end of the season. Compared to UK's 1. Pretty astounding considering what we roundly expected with the way the season ended.

I'm sure they are on the look out for any last minute criminal charges and expulsions.. if it wasn't so ridiculously accurate it would be comical. As 4 of their defensive starters the last 2 years were kicked off their original teams. what an easy team and coach not to like....

 

[Michigan Fan]

Uh...Boykin and Blue are solid as is Pass...Boykins only taken one official visit and that is this coming weekend at Louisville and Blue came back from his Oklahoma visit still solid and his visit to Louisville is scheduled for this weekend as well...also Brunson who flipped to USCjr replacement according to Rivals is considered a "better/higher" rated Inside Linebacker in Little. As for Burn unfortunately no real surprise and it Ohio State...they got themselves a steal regardless of his ranking by Rivals.

But as far as recruiting...really not much of a concern...still recruiting at the same level for the past 6 years...between 30th to 45th range and still maintaining Bowl Eligibilty.

Things will continue to change between now and NSD for everyone...

 

[Pike 96]

Don't see us competing with LV in recruiting. We get ours, they get theirs.

This is patently false. There are probably 10 guys on our commitment list this year alone with offers from UL. same with the last 2 recruiting classes. You don't think that would constitute us "competing" for recruits iwith UL? If not them, then who would be a bigger recruiting competitor?? Hell, just last week they were trying to get Looney, our DT commit, in for a visit this past weekend.

We'll go head to head against them EVERY year with the Kentucky and Ohio kids. If you don't think it will ultimately make a BIG difference in UK's overall football success to lock down the state and the majority of guys we both want in Ohio then i don't know what to tell you.

 

[WildCard]

This is patently false. There are probably 10 guys on our commitment list this year alone with offers from UL. same with the last 2 recruiting classes. You don't think that would constitute us "competing" for recruits iwith UL? If not them, then who would be a bigger recruiting competitor?? Hell, just last week they were trying to get Looney, our DT commit, in for a visit this past weekend.

We'll go head to head against them EVERY year with the Kentucky and Ohio kids. If you don't think it will ultimately make a BIG difference in UK's overall football success to lock down the state and the majority of guys we both want in Ohio then i don't know what to tell you.

Not that it really matters, UK has won 6 head to head recruiting battles with UofL and UofL has won 5 with UK so far this year. Cards have indeed suffered some notable late losses (notably Buchanan, Oden, Fitzpatrick and now Burns) without many "comparable" late additions. Buchanan and Oden were considered soft from the get go. OTOH, the Cat's early commits appear quite steady. It works out that way sometimes I suppose.

Peace

 

[Pike 96]

Uh...Boykin and Blue are solid as is Pass...Boykins only taken one official visit and that is this coming weekend at Louisville and Blue came back from his Oklahoma visit still solid and his visit to Louisville is scheduled for this weekend as well...also Brunson who flipped to USCjr replacement according to Rivals is considered a "better/higher" rated Inside Linebacker in Little. As for Burn unfortunately no real surprise and it Ohio State...they got themselves a steal regardless of his ranking by Rivals.

But as far as recruiting...really not much of a concern...still recruiting at the same level for the past 6 years...between 30th to 45th range and still maintaining Bowl Eligibilty.

Things will continue to change between now and NSD for everyone...

Congrats..Boykin, Blue and Pass seem solid regardless of the looking around. Still doesn't change the fact UL has had 4 decommits since the end of the season and many of your other top targets look to be going elsewhere. Little looks like a capable replacement for Brunson at LB. But I notice you don't trumpet the same replacements for Fitzpatrick, Buchannon and Burns. Regardless of how the next 10 days go, you would have gotten some good odds at the end of this season that it wouldn't be UL- 4 decommits and UK- 1 at this point in time.

Your more important recruiting season may be between now and the fall when guys start getting kicked off of other teams and UL hits the waiver wires. 5 starters on your very good defenses the last two years were the products of such activity. And by my count you've lost almost 20 players from the last three classes to players never making it to campus, being dismissed/leaving or were JUCO's and graduated. Recruiting rankings aren't going to mean much the last three years with almost a third of those guys not on the team.

 

[Pike 96]

Not that it really matters, UK has won 6 head to head recruiting battles with UofL and UofL has won 5 with UK so far this year. Cards have indeed suffered some notable late losses (notably Buchanan, Oden, Fitzpatrick and now Burns) without many "comparable" late additions. Buchanan and Oden were considered soft from the get go. OTOH, the Cat's early commits appear quite steady. It works out that way sometimes I suppose.

Peace

Thanks for the feedback. forgot Oden. that would mean UL has had 5 decommits and UK 1 since season end. Pretty amazing all things considered. Most thought our class would implode like last years. But strong leadership in class is a definite plus.

As far as how it works sometimes and how the pendulum swings...it bodes well for UK's long term success when they consistently beat out UL for top instate kids. Although some UL fans would argue you didn't want the instate kids anyway and recruiting KY isn't important to long term success...In the last 3 years Kentucky has taken the following kids that UL either offered or clearly would have wanted if possible(i.e.- Brown, Jackson and Young):

Hatcher(Army AA)
Barker(Army AA)
Tubman
Middleton
Elam(Army AA)
Brown
Young (Army AA)
Daniel (Army AA)
Jackson(Army AA)
Robinson
10 highly recruited instate kids With Six Army All Americans...

UL got two/three that UK wanted from instate.

Quick(Army AA)
Bonnafan
Wakefield(debatable if he was a take. Our Rivals recruiting guy would say No)

However you slice it...locking down the best talent in your own state year after year is usually a huge component in the long term success of a program

 

[jauk11]

Thanks for the feedback. forgot Oden. that would mean UL has had 5 decommits and UK 1 since season end. Pretty amazing all things considered. Most thought our class would implode like last years. But strong leadership in class is a definite plus.

As far as how it works sometimes and how the pendulum swings...it bodes well for UK's long term success when they consistently beat out UL for top instate kids. Although some UL fans would argue you didn't want the instate kids anyway and recruiting KY isn't important to long term success...In the last 3 years Kentucky has taken the following kids that UL either offered or clearly would have wanted if possible(i.e.- Brown, Jackson and Young):

Hatcher(Army AA)
Barker(Army AA)
Tubman
Middleton
Elam(Army AA)
Brown
Young (Army AA)
Daniel (Army AA)
Jackson(Army AA)
Robinson
10 highly recruited instate kids With Six Army All Americans...

UL got two/three that UK wanted from instate.

Quick(Army AA)
Bonnafan
Wakefield(debatable if he was a take. Our Rivals recruiting guy would say No)

However you slice it...locking down the best talent in your own state year after year is usually a huge component in the long term success of a program

Great rundown, thanks. Wow, SIX AA members among the ten with Brown a four star, Tubman a 5.7 IIRC that really blew up his redshirt year, Middleton expected to contribute as an underclassman, and Robinson probably the most underrated because he didn't camp, serious speed with serious interest from MAJOR powers.

You might have also pointed out that Quick and Bonnafon were both from Trinity and committed before Stoops starting making an impact, and Wakefield was not any kind of a priority here, and was also from Louisville with a mother that really wanted him to go there, IIRC.

And their best rebuttal is that although they had EIGHT commits seriously looking around they MIGHT be able to hang on to less than half of them.

FIVE to one is VERY impressive considering the records.

 

[BigBlueCatNation]

UK will never get anywhere close to where it wants to be if it compares itself to UL. Please stop doing that. Compare them with teams that actually matter

 

[rockycard]

This board counts stars like no other, coaching is what sets the good programs apart from the bad.

 

[vhcat70]

This is patently false. There are probably 10 guys on our commitment list this year alone with offers from UL. same with the last 2 recruiting classes. You don't think that would constitute us "competing" for recruits iwith UL? If not them, then who would be a bigger recruiting competitor?? Hell, just last week they were trying to get Looney, our DT commit, in for a visit this past weekend.

Mere offers don't mean competition imo. Many are throwaway - players don't seriously consider. When a guy narrows his choice to us & them or a player decommits from one to the other, then you can call it competition. Happens rarely. Hatcher is the only one that fits this that I can think of. NBD. Mainly look in different circles.

 

[ukalumni00]

Continues to amaze me how obsessed the KY fanbase is regarding UofL's football program.

 

[Beatle Bum]

This board counts stars like no other, coaching is what sets the good programs apart from the bad.

So, Bobby keeps getting out coached by Fisher and Sweeney. Got it.

 

[Stenchymouse]

We do compete with UofL for recruits sometimes and I feel that we win most of those battles, but like another poster said, we'll get ours and they'll get theirs.

UofL can continue to pull in classes between 35 and 45 and it's business as usual for them.

Because of the depth that's needed to compete in the SEC, we NEED to pull in classes between 25 and 35 and I think we'll continue to do that if we can just get over the hump on the field next year.

 

[TrollCat_rivals128405]

Continues to amaze me how obsessed the KY fanbase is regarding UofL's football program.

When you're no longer competive against your arch rival, those things happen.

 

[BigBlueTuckian]

UK will always be a more attractive option than UL; at least to in-state and neighboring state recruits.

The problem is UL can take inferior talent and out coach our superior talent. Stoops has been out coached by Letrino every time they face each other.

Either extend the talent gap in recruiting (all relative as we can control what we do but not what UL does), or out coach them.

 

[Michigan Fan]

We do compete with UofL for recruits sometimes and I feel that we win most of those battles, but like another poster said, we'll get ours and they'll get theirs.

UofL can continue to pull in classes between 35 and 45 and it's business as usual for them.

Because of the depth that's needed to compete in the SEC, we NEED to pull in classes between 25 and 35 and I think we'll continue to do that if we can just get over the hump on the field next year.

Pretty much but than again it about what they do once on campus...21 Commits for Louisville with 3 actually already enrolled in 2 DL & 1 CB...18 Verbals with signing day in 9 days...Louisville according to the Services is recruiting at the same level since 2010...bowl season every year while going 4-2 in those bowl games.

 

[K_TIME]

Stoops recruiting ability has been an anomoly at UK...usually a new UK coach may have a brief uptick in recruiting but once the new wares off...the recruiting usually tails off into the 40/50 range. Stoops has been very rare that outside of last year's class...he can recruit despite bad on field results. (and have 3 Ky kids that didn't live in Louisville be rated so high in one class).

Give Stoops credit...he's been able to do one thing no other UK coach could do at this job and that is recruit despite having a program that isn't playing very well on the field.

 

[seccats04]

UK will always be a more attractive option than UL; at least to in-state and neighboring state recruits.

The problem is UL can take inferior talent and out coach our superior talent. Stoops has been out coached by Letrino every time they face each other.

Either extend the talent gap in recruiting (all relative as we can control what we do but not what UL does), or out coach them.

Well so far, Stoops has not had "superior" talent compared to Petrino. UL had much more talent than UK when Stoops arrived thanks to Hurtt's illegal activities that the NCAA wouldn't even look at because of the Miami fiasco. UL has had a huge talent advantage on defense all three years and only this year did UK match UL evenly on offense (although one player, Jackson, made all the difference). Gran is a good/great, proven OC that will hopefully narrow the gap even more. Year 4 there should be no more excuses for Stoops. We have outrecruited UL for 4 years now and most of the roster are Stoops' guys and they have some experience now. Time to put up or shut up.

 

[WLGenerals]

Don't forget that ULs talent gets a big upgrade from transfers.

 

[gobigblue812_rivals29381]

You must factor in the transfers to compare rosters, not just HS and JUCO recruits.

 

[Senore2006]

The one virtue Stoops has in having his family so entrenched in coaching circles is being reminded fairly constantly of the need for recruiting. He has the perspective from successful coaches at the highest levels - and he has their ear, one would guess, at any moment in time. I would also assume he might get some info on talent as well from other scouting sources. His difficulties in arriving at his staff seems to be his largest criticism so far. It is hard to develop players with a lot of shifting staff personnel. UofL will simply do what they always do and maybe rise in national rankings at a steady, of glacial pace. They well understand the need to develop who they have - it has gotten them where they are now and won't appreciably change going forward. Playing in a state without abundant talent on the regular means transplants forever.

 

[StoopRaid7]

I'm just glad we can beat there football team in something

 

[Stenchymouse]

Pretty much but than again it about what they do once on campus...21 Commits for Louisville with 3 actually already enrolled in 2 DL & 1 CB...18 Verbals with signing day in 9 days...Louisville according to the Services is recruiting at the same level since 2010...bowl season every year while going 4-2 in those bowl games.

I don't believe that Stoops has done a great job of developing these kids up to this point, but I do feel that we have a staff in place now that can get these kids ready to compete at a high level.

UofL has been fortunate with some kids that have been better than their ranking suggested and that's just good talent evaluation.

Here again, we go head to head with them on some recruits, but overall they don't need to be our measuring stick, because the SEC is brutal and we need to get MORE good players to compete for a full SEC season.

 

[Beatle Bum]

When you're no longer competive against your arch rival, those things happen.

Interesting comment. Go back and see how UL fans perceive their losses to FSU over the past two years and see whether they believe they were competitive.

 

[Beatle Bum]

The one virtue Stoops has in having his family so entrenched in coaching circles is being reminded fairly constantly of the need for recruiting. He has the perspective from successful coaches at the highest levels - and he has their ear, one would guess, at any moment in time. I would also assume he might get some info on talent as well from other scouting sources. His difficulties in arriving at his staff seems to be his largest criticism so far. It is hard to develop players with a lot of shifting staff personnel. UofL will simply do what they always do and maybe rise in national rankings at a steady, of glacial pace. They well understand the need to develop who they have - it has gotten them where they are now and won't appreciably change going forward. Playing in a state without abundant talent on the regular means transplants forever.

When BP lost two coaches this year, was that difficulty in arriving at his staff?

 

[Michigan Fan]

I don't believe that Stoops has done a great job of developing these kids up to this point, but I do feel that we have a staff in place now that can get these kids ready to compete at a high level.

UofL has been fortunate with some kids that have been better than their ranking suggested and that's just good talent evaluation.

Here again, we go head to head with them on some recruits, but overall they don't need to be our measuring stick, because the SEC is brutal and we need to get MORE good players to compete for a full SEC season.

We should not be your measuring stick...the people you really compete against are Missouri, South Carolina etc..etc. The same applies to Louisville in the ACC Atlantic.

The advantage for Louisville is our young guys don't get brutalized while the Kentucky youngest do playing the SEC schedule...that allows our younger players to grow and keep their confidence.

 

[Blueaz]

what are the odds that at least two of these upstanding UL fans, posting here; have skedaddled back to their board...telling everyone the UK fans are happy about "winning recruiting"
while Senore is doing his best hillbilly accent and PE is piling
Why are they even allowed here?

 

[Pike 96]

We should not be your measuring stick...the people you really compete against are Missouri, South Carolina etc..etc. The same applies to Louisville in the ACC Atlantic.

The advantage for Louisville is our young guys don't get brutalized while the Kentucky youngest do playing the SEC schedule...that allows our younger players to grow and keep their confidence.

Ideally UL shouldn't be Kentucky's measuring stick when it comes whether we are putting a competitive team on the field and how we are recruiting. But that just isn't reality at this point in time. We play UL every year just like we do the SEC East schools and Miss st. And they happened to have dominated us the last 6 years with a coach that has only lost to us once in his career. couple that with the fact we recruit against UL for the same players more consistently than anyone else on our schedule and I don't know how you can avoid using UL as a current benchmark for success.

once we start beating them on the field again and truly become a competitive factor in the SEC, then we should definitely shift our focus more to how we measure up with the better SEC teams. But Its a process measured in increments. For now, competing with and beating UL and the second tier of the SEC in recruiting is absolutely necessary for future on field results.

According to Rivals, this years class is currently ranked higher than South Carolina, Missouri, Vandy, Miss St, and UL. that's pretty damn impressive considering the year we had.

 

[Pike 96]

Continues to amaze me how obsessed the KY fanbase is regarding UofL's football program.

Uhh, this is a football message board a week from national signing day. Not sure why you'd be so amazed for UK fans to talk about our recruiting compared to our major instate rival who has kicked our *** the last 6 years.

If it's so frustrating and uninteresting to you i suggest not bothering to read it.

 

[ukalumni00]

Uhh, this is a football message board a week from national signing day. Not sure why you'd be so amazed for UK fans to talk about our recruiting compared to our major instate rival who has kicked our *** the last 6 years.

If it's so frustrating and uninteresting to you i suggest not bothering to read it.

Has nothing to do about it being a week away from signing day. Its a 24/7 360 day a year obsession. Hopefully Stoops can start to actually out coach Petrino on the field rather than in a recruit's home and make some headway in the SEC which is really where the fanbase should put most of its efforts worrying about.

 

[Bluetick2100]

This board counts stars like no other, coaching is what sets the good programs apart from the bad.

Exactly !
What good does it to have a higher ranked class if we continue to lose on the playing field?
As a matter of fact what does it say when you out recruit UL but continue to lose.
COACHING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Pike 96]

Has nothing to do about it being a week away from signing day. Its a 24/7 360 day a year obsession. Hopefully Stoops can start to actually out coach Petrino on the field rather than in a recruit's home and make some headway in the SEC which is really where the fanbase should put most of its efforts worrying about.

Winning on the field doesn't exist in a vacuum. Recruiting is the life blood of on field results and it happens to be that season.

I completely agree that Stoops undoubtedly needs to learn from his on field mistakes and hiring miscues. exchanging Dawson for Gran and Hinshaw looks like it fixes that mistake. Couple that with keeping our coveted coaches while minimizing decommits after the implosion, and it looks like Stoops has won this round of the off season. sooner or later the off season wins and lessons learned the hard way will translate to results on the field

 

[ukalumni00]

Winning on the field doesn't exist in a vacuum. Recruiting is the life blood of on field results and it happens to be that season.

I completely agree that Stoops undoubtedly needs to learn from his on field mistakes and hiring miscues. exchanging Dawson for Gran and Hinshaw looks like it fixes that mistake. Couple that with keeping our coveted coaches while minimizing decommits after the implosion, and it looks like Stoops has won this round of the off season. sooner or later the off season wins and lessons learned the hard way will translate to results on the field

That I can agree with. Stoops has been a tremendous "offseason coach" at UK. Its time to put it all together during the actual season. We shall see.

 

[Michigan Fan]

Couple that with keeping our coveted coaches while minimizing decommits after the implosion, and it looks like Stoops has won this round of the off season.

That part is a huge win for the Kentucky staff during this portion of the offseason...losing Oden, Brunson and even Fitzpatrick didn't really hurt...Burns while not that surprising-(a friend of mine told me he was likely gone 2 weeks ago) was the one for me on our end that stings. But the young man got a opportunity and apparently was very underrated by the services.

Would like to see a WR commit to replace him...someone like a Freddie Pinder so if necessary they could move current commit CTY...looking at his tape very good WR prospect but might be even better at CB.

 

[CatDaddy4daWin]

This board counts stars like no other, coaching is what sets the good programs apart from the bad.

Actually talent is what sets the good apart from the bad. Coaching can be overcome with really good talent. Coaching isn't what has won games for UL against UK, it's been talent.

 

[tmuck]

what are the odds that at least two of these upstanding UL fans, posting here; have skedaddled back to their board...telling everyone the UK fans are happy about "winning recruiting"
while Senore is doing his best hillbilly accent and PE is piling
Why are they even allowed here?

No doubt, not to mention the two UL trolls in this thread who are trying to pose as UK fans.

 

[Stenchymouse]

what are the odds that at least two of these upstanding UL fans, posting here; have skedaddled back to their board...telling everyone the UK fans are happy about "winning recruiting"
while Senore is doing his best hillbilly accent and PE is piling
Why are they even allowed here?

The 2 UofL football posters on this thread have always been respectful and balanced in their interactions over here.

That's all I ask of rival fans visiting our board.