(Un)official SPS PSD Depth Chart Discussion. WR/TE.

[AzzurriDawg4]

<span style="font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">(PSD=Post Signing Day). </span><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><br style="min-width: 0px; "></div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">I figured it would be fun to go through the depth charts and have some discussion about 2012 and beyond in this horrible time between the end of the Super Bowl and Opening Day. I will try to post a position group every couple of days. Feel free to discuss offensive/defensive philosophy as it relates to the players, or anything else that might apply. Class designations will be for the 2012 season, please let me know if I made an error on those because I am basically going from memory.</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><br style="min-width: 0px; "></div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">Players in bold will be the projected starters, in my opinion.</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">
</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">WR</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">Arceto Clark SR 5'10/180</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">Chad Bumphis SR 5'10/200</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">Chris Smith SR 6'2/205</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">Brandon Heavens SR 5'10/175</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">Ricco Sanders JR 6'0/190</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">Jameon Lewis SO 5'9/185</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">Robert Johnson SO 6'0/215</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">Joe Morrow rFR 6'4/205</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">Devin Fosselman rFR 5'10/190</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">Sam Williams JR 6'1/200</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">Michael Carr JR 6'0/200</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">Brandon Holloway FR 5'9/165</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">Fred Brown FR 6'2/185</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">
</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">TE</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">Malcolm Johnson SO 6'2/225</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">Brandon Hill SO 6'2/240</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">Rufus Warren rFR 6'5/250</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">Artimas Samuel FR 6'2/205</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">Gus Walley FR 6'4/215</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">
</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">2012 Outlook</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">WR is an interesting position on this team. I mean we have an arseload of players, some with a lot of potential, but nobody is stepping up. As soon as I get mad at Chris Smith for being so average, he goes out and makes a huge grab. Arceto has been by far our best WR to this point, but he still isnt going to cause any opposing DC's nightmares. Bumphis is perhaps the biggest mystery. I honestly think he is still the most talented WR on the team, but I dont think he is being utilized well. That damn lateral pass isnt his play. You want to run that play? Throw it to mother17ing Robert Johnson, who has shown he has burst and break-tackle ability. Anyone that saw him in garbage time vs. Arkansas or directional Tennesse knows what I am talking about. The announcers during the Arkansas game even mentioned how he looked like our best player out there. Speaking of Johnson, he and Morrow need to factor heavily in the rotation this year. Sprinkle in some Tubby Lewis, who will hopefully remedy his fumbilitis this summer, and aGAIN, there is some promise there. I personally dont see Ricco Sanders or Heavens bringing anything to the table that we don't already have. They need to lose PT to Morrow and RJ. My rotation would be Chris Smith/Joe Morrow; Arceto/R. Johnson; Bumphis/Jameon - with the hope that Morrow would claim the starting role by midseason. Carr is a wildcard, so I am not really discussing him at this point. As I said quite often last season, we have a hard time getting our players the ball on the move. That might have been a product of Relf's passing ability, but all we were running was stop routes and there was basically no opportunity for RAC. When every receiver on your team is 5'10/190, that makes it tough on your offense. </div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">
</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">I like the TE position from a pass catching standpoint, we all saw M-80 break out at the end of last year. I also think Hill is going to be a valuable player - he is extremely athletic for his size. Hopefully Warren will be that attached TE that we need in heavy sets. </div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">
</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">2015 and the 4-year Outlook</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">I am not thrilled with what we did at WR this year in recruiting. It is going to have to be a major emphasis in 2013, especially with Smith, Clark, Bumphis, and Heavens leaving. That said, in terms of just starting WR's, you have to like the potential of Morrow/R. Johnson/Lewis, who all still have a few years of service time. We just need to improve our quality depth and find that elusive playmaker like Joe Adams/J. Jones/A. Green/A. Jeffrey/E. Blake, etc.</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">
</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">Mullen mentioned Samuel was probably going to get a look at TE, so there is that. Walley will have plenty of time to develop, with M80, Hill and Warren all being SOPHs or younger.</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">
</div><div style="min-width: 0px; max-width: 99%; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">COMING WEDNESDAY: Offensive Line...</div>

 

[BiscuitEater]

part of the equation seems to be coaching. It just seems like the WR/TE positions are the absolute poorest coached positions on the team.


There was a rumor that Larry Porter was coming to the staff and that Angelo Mirando was going to move to coaching TEs but with Porter going to ASU, that won't happen.


Two Things ...


With three senior starters returning, one would think that the WR position would be the strongest on the team instead of our achille's heel.


With Mullen's background, one would think that he could bring in a WR coach that could at least teach the receivers to run simple patterns.


Are there any 'changes' coming?

 

[8dog]

we throw deep balls to brandon heavens and fades to Chad Bumphis. We just don't have the personnel.

 

[bulldoglarry]

i think the biggest help to the WR corp this year will be the change in philosophy from relf/ballard to russell/WRs.....airing the ball out more will open things up for more players to get more touches and i have a feeling the coaches are more comfortable with russell putting the ball in the air as opposed to relf. i think all the guys JR/SR guys on the roster have explosion and play making ability but unfortunately relf never developed the skill set to get them the ball consistently in positions that accentuated their skillsets. i expect more of a meyer/mullen at utah year statistically for our WR corps this year. not saying russell will be all league or anything but i do expect 70pass-30run by the end of the season if all goes well, if we get a downhill runner that defenses have a hard time handling and a LT that can handle basic blocking assignments without jumping offsides.

GOD bless

 

[AzzurriDawg4]

That is just not going to happen. I don't care who is playing QB.

 

[AzzurriDawg4]

Truthfully, Arceto should be a slot receiver and a good one. The only outside/deep threats we have on the roster are J. Morrow (who we havent even seen) and R. Johnson (who we have yet to really go after down the field). Chris Smith is just a possession receiver. Really it is a style problem as much as it is a talent problem. We have a few guys that are talented at running crossing routes, dig routes and even posts. We have zero guys for fades, deep balls or jump balls. That shortens the field for the defense and limits what we can do to some extent.

 

[Irondawg]

We clearly have more overall talent we've had there in a long time, but at the same time we're not making a lot of plays.The only guys that I ever saw do anything special last year were M. Johnson, Smith, Bumphis and Lewis. So is bad coaching, bad QB play, bad playcalling or maybe they're not quite as talented as we sometimes hype them to be.

Bump is the most talked about WR so i'll start there. I'm firmly convinced his biggest attribute is his cutting ability. Dude can flat out stop on a dime. Every big time play I've seen him make involves a crossing route where he makes a couple of cuts and makes people miss. At the same time I'm also convinced he does NOT have a great first step and that's why the lateral pass never works with him.

He also seems to drop a lot of balls and that comes down to focus. So how is he best used -- crossing routes out of the slot. Pure and simple. hit him in stride and watch him make people miss while in motion.

Smith has turned into an excellent possession receiver who gives the quarterback a good target, adjusts routes well and goes and gets the ball. Clark is just solid, but not spectacular at it all.

Morrow we hope is the deep threat and I hope he, Smith and M. Johnson give us 3 guys we can just throw it up and say "go get it" and thus give us a few big plays in traffic.

Tubby meanwhile does have that great first step - he just fumbles every 3rd time he touches the ball. But there is a bunch of potential there. RJ is a tank and I agree he and and Lewis should get those lateral passes. Tubby can make them miss and RJ can run over them.

Sanders and Heavens would have been great in the Croom years, but now they're simply depth. Williams is a great type of guy to have on the team and I hear Fosselman has really good hands.

I have no idea what the really make of Carr or any of the freshmen we recruited. At TE, I do like hill and Warren there as well.

 

[kired]

Not sure there's much anyone can add. I think Heavens & Sanders are just a step below Clark & Bumphis. Heavens had a decent year in 2010, but like most of this group he regressed in 2011. I still wish Mullen had redshirted him in 2009. I always said we should have moved Arnil Stallworth to WR andredshirted Heavens.

Johnson & Carr have so much potential that it's ridiculous. For 2012 to be a success we've got to get great years out of the 3 seniors (30+ catches, 400+ yards each)plus 2 or 3 more guys have to step up (~20 catches, 200 yards). I don't see Morrow having huge stats, but if he can stretch the field or become a target in the redzone it should help open up other things.

 

[8dog]

We have had been running the same crew out there for 3 years under 2 different WR coaches with 2 different styles of QBs, and they still cannot make plays.

There are 2 ways to get open in football:

1. Have a hellacious running game.
2. Have talented WRs that can get off blocks, stretch the field, fight for a ball and come down with it, etc.

 

[patdog]

I haven't seen a WR that belongs in the top 2 at any SEC school in years. We've got a lot of decent #3 and #4 receivers, but none of them need to be one of the top options.

 

[captaindawg]

This is why I would have loved to have gotten Brassell and Singleton. Brassell made several long plays last year on pure talent.

 

[Johnson85]

It's hard for the slot guys to do a lot when we don't have a real vertical threat. We'll probably get more production out of this group regardless this year because of Russell having the ball, but Morrow emerging as a deep threat would be a game changer. It's just going to be hard to really get our slot receivers the ball in a position to gain yards if other teams are perfectly comfortable that our outside guys can't make them pay if they cover them one-on-one the whole game.

 

[RonnyAtmosphere]

..when you are wasting Bumphis' career by forcing him to catch those idiotic lateral passes & by not having a coach on staff that is willing to teach the WR's how to run a route.


I honestly don't know what level of talent MSU has @ WR. Since this board loves to keep bringing up Croom...the way Mullen is treating his WR's is Croomesque to the core.


Dan Mullen has done a horrible job with MSU WR's; I realize there are no Julio Joneses in this bunch, but they have enough athletic ability to make the occasional great play if the MSU coaches would just spend some time working with them.

 

[AzzurriDawg4]

I mean, Justin Jenkins could have started on this team...but who else? Especially as a collective unit?<div>
</div><div>I mean think about it...here are some examples of our leading receivers from years past:</div><div>Brandon McRae/Aubrey Bell/Jamayel Smith</div><div>J. Smith/T. Burks/J. Husband</div><div>T. Burks/L. Long/J. Smith</div><div>Prosser/T. Milons/K. Humphries - holy sheet</div><div>Prosser/Milons/McKinley Scott - street corner crooms</div><div>J. Jenkins/M. Scott/Bivines</div><div>J. Jenkins/Grindle/Bivines (twice) - this one is maybe your best argument. I don't think we have a Jenkins on this team, but I think we can get pretty close to Grindle and Bivines. Still, that is basically 10 years ago.</div><div>Grindle/Huntington/nobody</div><div>
</div><div>So they might not be talented enough in your opinion, but that doesnt mean they aren't the most talented group we have had in a looooong time. Not that it makes me feel any better.</div>

 

[coach66]

opportunities for other receivers. Mix that in with our poor offensive line play last year and the DB's know they only have to defend for a few seconds and keep<div>everything in front of them. The results you will get when you have 4 seconds to throw versus two and three seconds are huge.</div>

 

[tenureplan]

My theory on Bumphis is that he is a little scared since the collar bone. I only saw him catch passes over the middle twice last year. I think he tries not to get open over the middle. Ever notice on the swing passes to him how often he runs out of bounds prior to any contact?

Relf has been our main QB, kinda hard to showcase your wideouts with his erratic arm. Plus neither he nor Tyler had any time when dropping back.

So our coaches don't spend any time with the wideouts? Close to one of the dumbest things I've ever read on here.

 

[FreeDawg]

but it seems to my untrained eye that our receivers dont attack the ball when thrown to. It hardly ever seemed like they came back to it or went up and got it. Maybe they didnt have trust in Relf's accuracy which led to the unsure way in which they went about getting the ball (just a guess). I remember how much I liked Fosselman's film because that guy wanted the 17ing rock and wouldnt be denied to get it. Im curious to see if he does anything. On a bright side, with Tyler throwing it more accurately (hopefully) maybe the receivers will develop more trust in the ball being delivered where its supposed to and attack that spot or the ball heading to that spot