Upon watching the Texas Kickoff Classic video....re: Exposure for MSU......

[Goat Holder]

I agree with the exposure in Texas deal....alot of alums out there, recruiting base, etc. But aren't we sort of fighting an uphill battle out there? Yeah, tons of recruits in Texas, but tons of competition. Everybody knows about Texas, Georgia, Florida and California.

Also, going back to the whole 'buy an away game and play it in Jackson' deal.....I'm sort of thinking that it may be good for MSU to play at UAB (Birmingham), at USA (Mobile), at Memphis (Memphis) and at Tulane (New Orleans). Those are cities in general proximity to Mississippi and MSU and we are much more likely to get recruits from those areas. Best case scenario is to play a game like the Texas Classic in those cities, but I suppose New Orleans is the only one that can handle it, other cities just don't have the facilities.

We should never have to play at Troy, Louisiana Tech, USM, etc. Only big cities.

 

[dawgstudent]

I honestly think its the 2.5 million payout/team more than the exposure. It's more than any bowl game besides the BCS.

 

[57stratdawg]

I honestly think its the 2.5 million payout/team more than the exposure. It's more than any bowl game besides the BCS.

Right, it's basically a preseason bowl game. It's not like our Alumni should have any trouble getting to Houston. You can book a nonstop flight to Hobby on SW right now for $300 bucks.

My biggest issue is everyone has this as a loss right now. Win the damn game and it's one of the biggest wins of Mullen's career. We've proven we can play in bowlgames, now lets start working towards the next step for this program.

 

[dawgstudent]

Yep - that is the risk of this type of a game especially when most see this as a 6-7 win team. Every win is vital for those that want to continue to go to a bowl game.

Addendum: This is not an argument about does going to a crappy bowl please the fanbase.

 

[missouridawg]

There's two trains of thought on recruiting Texas.

There's a ton of talent here. Taking the leftovers after OU, Texas, and aTm pick their players is not a bad idea since the talent is so deep here.

On the other hand, Texas high school football players are so well coaches that a lot of people think that Texas kids reach their ceiling much quicker and that there's not much room left for improvement after high school.

Personally, I think we need to be in Texas. Especially for QBs. They run complicated offenses here and probably adjust easier at the D1 level than some of the guys you see in MS. Matt Stafford and Greg McElroy are two Texas names that come to mind that have had success in the SEC.

 

[Goat Holder]

I agree with you. No doubt we should have a presence there, but here's my thing:

Taking the leftovers after OU, Texas, and aTm pick their players is not a bad idea since the talent is so deep here.

This is what I was talking about when I said everybody knows about Texas....After those 3 get their pick, then in comes the rest of the Big 12 and entire country for that matter. Nebraska, Oregon, everybody....just like the whole eastern US recruits Atlanta/South Florida and the whole western US recruits Los Angeles. We have a HUGE fight to get the 2nd tier guys. Getting Fred Ross is a great sign in my opinion....and if we can do it, hell yeah we should be doing it. Good point with the QBs too.

The only competition we really have in Louisiana is LSU, and they can't take them all. Just like Auburn/Alabama can't take all the Alabama prospects. And remember we are still 100% all-in on Mississippi/Memphis talent too. Obviously Ole Miss is another competitor is these areas.

 

[Goat Holder]

Yep - that is the risk of this type of a game especially when most see this as a 6-7 win team. Every win is vital for those that want to continue to go to a bowl game.

Therein lies the big point.....I'd love to play this game when we were a more national team predicted to win 8-9-10 games....then we could legitimately consider ourself a contender in Texas and big boy recruiting in general. But until we do that....I think we should be concentrating more on our surrounding areas. Slow, steady progress.

Reality, like you said - we are predicted to win around 6 games.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

I would have to agree. It's the players that are looking at Houston or SMU that we could target.

After living here for a while I would have to say that we should be looking here in Texas for QBs, WRs and OL. Stay with the deep south for defensive players.

 

[57stratdawg]

We can't have our cake and eat it too.

We started have discussions about this game in the Spring of 2012. When it was officially announced we were probably somewhere between 6-0 and 7-2. We're averaging 8 wins a season over the last 3 years. We return probably 70% of the starting snaps off an 8 win season last year. I'd much rather play this game in 2013 when we return our QB, entire OL, RBs, and most of our front 7, than in 2014 with a new QB, OL, RB, DEs, Ss..

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

I agree with you. No doubt we should have a presence there, but here's my thing:



This is what I was talking about when I said everybody knows about Texas....After those 3 get their pick, then in comes the rest of the Big 12 and entire country for that matter. Nebraska, Oregon, everybody....just like the whole eastern US recruits Atlanta/South Florida and the whole western US recruits Los Angeles. We have a HUGE fight to get the 2nd tier guys. Getting Fred Ross is a great sign in my opinion....and if we can do it, hell yeah we should be doing it. Good point with the QBs too.

The only competition we really have in Louisiana is LSU, and they can't take them all. Just like Auburn/Alabama can't take all the Alabama prospects. And remember we are still 100% all-in on Mississippi/Memphis talent too. Obviously Ole Miss is another competitor is these areas.

we know which texas guys we have a shot at pretty early in the recruiting process. i don't care who else is coming into texas after players, that just means there are quality players there. if you think other programs don't know about MS/AL/LA talent, then you are a fool. they have the internet too. it's just about establishing a pipeline with a couple of schools/coaches. hopefully we did that with fred ross (i seem to remember someone saying his HS coach was a MSU alum? or maybe that was another big texas HS program?).

not only will this game help in texas, it'll put us in a prime position for week 1 exposure as 1 of the best couple of games nationally of the weekend. that helps with every recruit, even ones in our backyard.

 

[dawg21]

While there is a lot of talent in TX, it's over rated. We don't need to spend a lot of time in TX. Any new efforts/money needs to go to LA and GA.

 

[DAWG61]

This game isn't being played for recruits in that state. MSU cares about recruiting Texas but that's hardly the reason it's playing the game. It's an opportunity for the program to take a step forward AND it's great national exposure AND it's $2.5 million dollars. MSU is an 8 win program right now. How does it get to 9 and 10 wins on average? Playing in big games like this against better programs and BEATING them. You can't beat them if you don't play them though. Good for Dan for continuing to try and take the next step forward. Now if only he could just start pulling upsets.

 

[patdog]

After living here for a while I would have to say that we should be looking here in Texas for QBs, WRs and OL. Stay with the deep south for defensive players.

Exactly. Lot of good players at those positions in Texas, even after the big schools take theirs. Don't waste time recruiting the other positions in Texas though.

 

[Goat Holder]

Maybe you're right....and I personally predict to have a good year, in the 8-9-10 win range. But in reality the experts don't seem to agree. I was ridiculed mercilessly for saying our veteran OL and Sr. QB would lead us to a big year next year. I guess we'll see.

There again I have been an MSU fan too long to get extremely excited. But the facts (at least the correct facts) say we will be good. Talking heads don't seem to concentrate on those though.

 

[Goat Holder]

if you think other programs don't know about MS/AL/LA talent, then you are a fool.

Of course they know about it, but they aren't going spend time recruiting LA as much. The simple fact is, they can fly into Houston, Dallas, Miami, Tampa, Atlanta and Los Angeles and then recruit a whole recruiting class within an hour of the airport. Nobody is going to do that in Birmingham, Mobile, Memphis, New Orleans or Jackson. Teams like us in close driving proximity are in better position to capture that talent. Use your brain more than just interpreting a general statement.

it's just about establishing a pipeline with a couple of schools/coaches.

Sure this helps, but if you depend on this sort of thing, you're going to get your *** kicked.

not only will this game help in texas, it'll put us in a prime position for week 1 exposure as 1 of the best couple of games nationally of the weekend. that helps with every recruit, even ones in our backyard.

I will agree with you here, as long as we win or are competitive in the game.

 

[Goat Holder]

It's an opportunity for the program to take a step forward AND it's great national exposure AND it's $2.5 million dollars.

I agree. I never said recruiting was the sole reason we played the game. I just used that example to justify playing in other cities closer to home.

How does it get to 9 and 10 wins on average? Playing in big games like this against better programs and BEATING them.

Most people think playing Valley would help us get to 9 and 10 wins more easily than playing the preseason Big 12 champ. Let's not get stupid.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

Of course they know about it, but they aren't going spend time recruiting LA as much. The simple fact is, they can fly into Houston, Dallas, Miami, Tampa, Atlanta and Los Angeles and then recruit a whole recruiting class within an hour of the airport. Nobody is going to do that in Birmingham, Mobile, Memphis, New Orleans or Jackson. Teams like us in close driving proximity are in better position to capture that talent. Use your brain more than just interpreting a general statement.



Sure this helps, but if you depend on this sort of thing, you're going to get your *** kicked.



I will agree with you here, as long as we win or are competitive in the game.

1) good players get recruited. some may fly under the radar for a bit (chris jones), but the usually get found. to problem with a lot of our base recruiting area is the lack of quality HS coaching, especially at the offensive skill positions. i would like to see us recruit memphis, mobile, etc. too, along with texas and MS. however under no circumstances do i want us playing @ memphis, @ uab, or @ south alabama anymore. those markets are close enough to starkville that we don't need to play there to get our foot in the door.

2) who said anything about depending on a pipeline? you obviously have to recruit your *** off, yuou can't just assume a HS program will keep funneling players to us because we signed 1 or 2 the previous year, but the piont is that in an area outside your natural recruiting area, it's good to have connections, whether it's some current players in the program, a HS coach that went to MSU, or just some kids that happen to be from MSU families. anything that gets your foot in the door is better than not getting your foot in at all.

 

[DAWG61]

Playing and beating teams like Valley is fools gold imo. Sure it gets you a win and closer to bowl contention but is that really our top goal? To just go bowling each year? It's certainly not mine and I know it's not Dan's. I want to BEAT LSU, Bama, aTm, Arkansas, Auburn, Ole Miss, Kentucky and one other SEC team EVERY season. I know the odds of doing that are very slim but lets face it playing Valley gets us nowhere in terms of competing and beating the SEC teams. Playing OSU gives us the opportunity to beat them and start to change the culture around here. That is Dan's biggest obstacle. Not Bama not LSU not aTm but US. MSU is Dan's biggest obstacle. He has to somehow change the culture here into everyone from the team to the entire fanbase truly believing WE ARE A BIG BOY. That will never happen with wins over Valley followed up by blowouts to LSU, Bama and aTm. You're a fool if you can't see playing a team like OSU better prepares MSU for Bama, LSU etc than Valley does.

 

[Goat Holder]

Of course good players get recruited. We're still in a better position to land those guys that are closer to home than in Texas.

And I disagree about playing in the 'right outside local' markets like Mobile, Birmingham and Memphis. There is still competition there and we need to establish a homegrown type presence there. But it's easier to fight Ole Miss for LSU/Alabama/Auburn leftovers than it is to fight the whole college football world in Texas.

I agree that in far away areas pipelines to certain high schools can be useful, but only for like 1 or 2 guys every few years.

 

[57stratdawg]

I think the 2013 team will be improved, particularly on offense, but probably won't win as many games as the 2012 team.

 

[Goat Holder]

Sure it gets you a win and closer to bowl contention but is that really our top goal? To just go bowling each year?

YES!!!!! For at least a few more years. Walk before you run.

It's certainly not mine and I know it's not Dan's. I want to BEAT LSU, Bama, aTm, Arkansas, Auburn, Ole Miss, Kentucky and one other SEC team EVERY season. I know the odds of doing that are very slim

You are damn right they are. So according to you, we are supposed to expect something where the odds are slim? See how dumb that sounds?

but lets face it playing Valley gets us nowhere in terms of competing and beating the SEC teams. Playing OSU gives us the opportunity to beat them and start to change the culture around here.

This is absolutely flawed logic, perpetrated by dumb fans like you? How in the holy **** could this be true? Tennessee beat NC State last year in a similar game and what did that get them? A 4-8 season.

That is Dan's biggest obstacle. Not Bama not LSU not aTm but US. MSU is Dan's biggest obstacle. He has to somehow change the culture here into everyone from the team to the entire fanbase truly believing WE ARE A BIG BOY.

I thing fans like you are the problem. You just don't understand the grind of the college football schedule (especially in the SEC) at all. I bet you get pissed and blame the coach when we have a 'down' game vs. Troy right after a big game vs. Auburn don't you?

That will never happen with wins over Valley followed up by blowouts to LSU, Bama and aTm. You're a fool if you can't see playing a team like OSU better prepares MSU for Bama, LSU etc than Valley does.

Well I am a fool, as defined by you. Playing Valley gives a chance to play a down game and still get a win. We have to be on our game one more time per year to play the Pokes. That chance could be better served trying to beat Alabama.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I agree with Goat. One thing about Dawg61's argument that doesn't hold water is that wins against Valley don't even count towards bowl consideration since they don't offer enough scholarships. That being said, I realize he meant games against FCS schools in general but used Valley as an example.

 

[RocketDawg]

Do we have to share this payout with the rest of the SEC like in a bowl game ...

or do we get to keep it all? I would think the latter but was just wondering.

Either way, I think MSU is probably ahead of the game in receiving money from bowls.

 

[Goat Holder]

Well, I will say that in this case (2013) we already play Alcorn so the patsy team would need to be more like a Tulane or Memphis or similar. Valley was a bad example that I brought up. I basically just meant an easy win in general, not an Oklahoma State.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Appreciate the correction there. It's been a long day today.

The one reason I like the Oklahoma State game is that we have a seven-game home schedule with a game against an FCS school. Other than that, I agree. Let's keep the non-conference schedule pretty mild.

 

[Goat Holder]

Any other time Okie State would be fine, except that we seem to play all these OOC games when they are at their peak. I guess they could say the same about us too. I recall splitting a home/away with them in the 90s, and same with Baylor. At the very minimum, if we're going to play these teams, let's at least play bottom feeders, like Indiana, Iowa State, Colorado State, etc.

 

[maroonmania]

YES!!!!! For at least a few more years. Walk before you run.



You are damn right they are. So according to you, we are supposed to expect something where the odds are slim? See how dumb that sounds?



This is absolutely flawed logic, perpetrated by dumb fans like you? How in the holy **** could this be true? Tennessee beat NC State last year in a similar game and what did that get them? A 4-8 season.



I thing fans like you are the problem. You just don't understand the grind of the college football schedule (especially in the SEC) at all. I bet you get pissed and blame the coach when we have a 'down' game vs. Troy right after a big game vs. Auburn don't you?



Well I am a fool, as defined by you. Playing Valley gives a chance to play a down game and still get a win. We have to be on our game one more time per year to play the Pokes. That chance could be better served trying to beat Alabama.

I am absolutely 100% behind the strategy that says schedule to get to a bowl game EVERY year above all else. When you are consistently making bowl games recruits will view you as a consistent winning program. Most recruits do NOT sit down and mull through strength of schedule and other factors, they just don't. Once top recruits start to view your program as a consistent winner you will eventually start signing more of them which in term WILL elevate your program. Playing top teams OOC will NOT elevate your program in and of itself and I will say that no matter how much exposure comes out of it. Now if we win it will help but that's a big risk that we shouldn't be taking right now. And here is the reason we shouldn't be taking that risk right now: 7-38, 13-38, 17-37, 24-41, 20-34. Those are the scores of games the last 5 times we played teams with winning records with our team just last year that actually finished 8-5. Most of those games weren't even competitive by the second half. So as much as we would like to think so we just aren't there yet. Once we've proven that we can consistently play with top level teams and actually win some of them THEN talk to me about playing an OK ST type team OOC.

 

[SkullCandy.sixpack]

Agree with playing schools with "bottom feeders" in lieu of a 17n' SWAC school. I love the ACC in that role, because they have enough name recognition from basketball, that at least recruits that might tune in will have heard of them.

Paying a million bucks to beat a SWAC team you to injury and has few positives. If we are ever to take it to the next level, we are going to have to recruit better, including quality OOS talent. Otherwise, beat 4 non-conf marshmallows, Kentucky, and hope to pick off one other SEC school to creep into the HardyFlush Toilet Bowl. Top 20 won't get us to the next level. We will need Top 10--for multiple years-- to hope to consistently compete with teams like Bama, LSU, Georgia, Florida, and ATM. Sure you might upset one of them--I'm taking about consistently playing at that level.

Every single SEC team that beat us last year had a Top 10 nationally recruiting class in 2013. All but UofOM usually has a Top 10 every single year. I suspect now that ATM is in the SEC, they will too (they were 8th last year and are #1 now for 2014). How can you ever hope to compete at the level of those schools without pulling in serious OOS talent? Otherwise, be happy with 6 wins and a bowl, and dress like you were going to a Gallagher concert when you play the Big Boys, cause it's gonna be messy.

 

[Goat Holder]

Every single SEC team that beat us last year had a Top 10 nationally recruiting class in 2013. All but UofOM usually has a Top 10 every single year. I suspect now that ATM is in the SEC, they will too (they were 8th last year and are #1 now for 2014). How can you ever hope to compete at the level of those schools without pulling in serious OOS talent? Otherwise, be happy with 6 wins and a bowl, and dress like you were going to a Gallagher concert when you play the Big Boys, cause it's gonna be messy.

Trying to compete head to head with those schools is STUPID. Accept that fact. Until our budgets/facilities/fanbase numbers equal theirs, IT'S NOT HAPPENING. That's like the Colonials lining up to face off against the British Redcoats in the open field. Ridiculous.

We can't play that game. We have to find other ways to level the playing field, sort of like the Colonials did with the militia. One way is to build a winning tradition through consistently going to bowl games (at the same time, this gives us a better chance to beat the big boy SEC teams that are FORCED....did you here me....FORCED to play already. Why add to that already daunting task?

We simply disagree on how to get MSU to the next step. People like you think it can happen overnight, somehow, and by playing bigger names we'll get there. Well, no we won't. I propose we do what we have been doing, winning slowly but surely, establishing a bowl game presence, recruiting gets better, run, an innovative offense, redshirt people, utilize JUCOs as much as possible, recruit the top talent available to us that's also the easiest and most practical to obtain. Strategize this mfer.

 

[SkullCandy.sixpack]

I avoided any reference to "overnight" success-- those are your words. The quote was "we need top 10 recruiting years for several years". And "STUPID" or not for trying to compete with the Big Boys, our coach and our team are obviously forced to competing with them--head-to head.

The Bears haven't conceded the top recruits and decided to settle for in-state scraps and OOS leftovers. They have cranked up a PR machine, and insincere as we believe it is, it's working. No doubt last year was a fluke catalyzed by getting the #1 recruit through a family connection. But they still believe they can go toe-to-toe with the SEC elite in recruiting--and are ranked in the Top 10 (so far) in recruiting for 2014. We are 66th and last in the SEC.

I know, I know--it's waaay early, but to say it means nothing at this point would be naïve. Rather than send mass mailings of "you're a baller" and carton cans to recruits --or hoping the NCAA will adopt an early signing period before a recruit even starts his senior year--and before he can take any OVs-- isn't a sound strategy. I'm not sure it's mentally sound... I don't see why we can't taste some of the success in recruiting (not yet proven on the field by any means) the Bears are having now.

We apparently need to change direction in the way we approach recruiting, or settle for bottom tier. And maybe that's the way it should be--not kissing recruits' butts, or turning the campus/city into a giant mosh pit. I disagree with your colonial militia tactic that going to a succession of lower tier bowls for several years will somehow attract top recruits from teams that are going to the Cotton, Fiesta, Sugar or National Championship game year after year. How does that work?

Like it or not, we ARE going to have to play the game--and recruit-- on the same field as the Big Boys. No trees to hide behind in the SEC battlefield.

 

[Goat Holder]

Your true colors are revealing themselves. Your jealousy of Ole Miss is clouding your good judgment. Their blueprint is different than ours.

 

[Goat Holder]

Can't say it any better. Perfect. I think we can about put this argument to bed now, the opposition literally has no leg to stand on. At least if they care about seeing MSU succeed long-term in football.

ETA: Some of our deranged fans actually think playing tough OOC somehow 'prepares' us better for SEC heavyweights. As if playing the bottom of the SEC schedule doesn't already do that, and probably better.