USC and UCLA are in talks to move to Big 10 in 2024.

[Mayoman]

And early 70's.

It wasn't just busing that changed the game...but also the social mores (values) that started being put in place to slowly fundamentally change the country...chipping away at the love of country. Vietnam, Nixon, and then the weak Jimmy Carter. Reagen stopped the bleeding for 8 years and tried to restore the foundation...but even then that was too little too late. Bush Sr set the stage for 8 years of Clinton and the progressives were on. Sad really to have experienced all that.

Like a frog placed in a pot of water in which the temperature is gradually slowly raised....the same could be said about the culture of our once great country...to the point where my 'greatest generation' father and his peers would roll in their graves over what the USA has become.

I saw the Elvis Presley movie this weekend...it was a interesting compilation of what this issues are now. EP couldn't take the changes and bowed to the pressures of success, fame and fortune bowing out as an overweight tired man of 42.

Yes the King of rock and roll used drugs to cope and had personal demons that consumed his soul and overwhelmed him. Hard for me not to see the same happening to the country. I pray that he is at least RIP now.
How much longer before the country is RIP? I weep and pray for her.

 

[beantowncard]

Meanwhile, back on Floyd Street…..

 

[CardX]

I hear and see what the PAC 12 is doing in response to USC and UCLA. I hear what the Big 12 is doing. I hear about certain teams in the ACC and what they are doing. I have heard nothing about what the ACC is doing. I’ve heard nothing about Louisville. The do nothing approach is not recommended.

 

[LeFors4Ever]

I hear and see what the PAC 12 is doing in response to USC and UCLA. I hear what the Big 12 is doing. I hear about certain teams in the ACC and what they are doing. I have heard nothing about what the ACC is doing. I’ve heard nothing about Louisville. The do nothing approach is not recommended.

Basically it’s we have a deal until 2036

It’s good because it makes it hard to leave.

It’s bad because it’s a disadvantage for revenue. It also bad because we can’t really break the deal without changing the GOR that holds us together.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

Not discounting anyone's arguments. But somehow, busing which started when I was teenager didn't affect us much until the last few years...

 

[Lifelongcard]

And then you got this

 

[Mayoman]

Not discounting anyone's arguments. But somehow, busing which started when I was teenager didn't affect us much until the last few years...

That may be your experience. On the contrary...parents of affected children had plenty to not like about it and how it affected their neighborhood public HS's (In negative ways)

When your child can no longer walk to school, easily participate in after school activities (like FB and BB) without having to work around getting on a damn bus to travel ?minutes/hours across town every day...it very definitely affected those individuals ability to participate as easily as before, if at all.

The quality of power house FB/BB schools of the 70's (ie Shawnee, Male, Central and Manuel) degraded in the mid to late 70's and 80's also affecting UofL's pipe line of great local athletes. Even up to the present time.

Who was the last great BB player after Daryl Griffith/Male from Louisville or FB Lee Bougous (sp?) of Shawnee that came out of this city from those schools? The talent development was certainly impacted by busing. This is a double edged sword. Catch 22 event. One likely not to find much agreement on. It is what it is.

Talk to graduates of all/any of those schools from that time frame about how their lives were affected. A St. X or Trinity prism is a poor frame of reference on this issue...so be aware of that.

Your above statement is telling and insightful. I graduated in 1971 and saw this take place IRT to the HS's mentioned when busing started. Neighborhood Public HS's were deeply affected...and not just in the last few years either.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

I'm not sure how we spiraled into a general discussion about busing. But my focus here is college athletics, U of L specifically, and how much or little something that started five decades ago has been affecting U of L. There's damn little connection between those two...

 

[2330859]

Zipp, you have spent so much time examining the numbers and trying to explain the accounting of UL finances, that you cannot see all of the other dynamics that affect how and why people spend or invest in UL Sports, or in this case have left.

Federal Court-ordered Busing in Jefferson Co was a game changer that failed to understand the eventual unintended consequences that take decades to manifest. If you need evidence of its affect on UL Sports, you would need to research the gradual decline in local JC HS talent who were largely responsible for attracting the fan interest and subsequent success in UL Football and Basketball; as it grew from those local fans following Jefferson County HS sports from all over the County.

Crawford’s WDRB article this morning provides a little glimpse into a better understanding as to my point; specifically if UL wants to be relevant in conference realignment …….it needs to experience an increase in local fan support. My sense “is that ship has sailed”; as this community no longer has that diverse experience of local HS talent developing over the years in HS, eventually make their way on to UL campus.

If you need numbers to make sense of this, compare Freedom Hall attendance before and after Wes Unseld (Seneca) attended UL, Look at the subsequent increase in attendance when Darrell Griffith, Bobby Turner (Male) arrived at UL. Same with Football when Jeff Brohm (Trinity) came to UL, and followed up when Michael Bush and Brian Brohm arrived on campus. Both Male and Trinity have been extremely good to UL, but “back in the day“, the contribution came from all over Jefferson County with kids like Larry Carter (PRP), Jerry Eaves (Ballard), Herb Crook (Central) to name just a few of the more notables. More importantly, look at how many of our UL rosters were composed of local kids that grew up playing their HS sports here in Louisville?

I recall a period when Freedom Hall was packed in to see the KY vs. IN HS Basketball All-Star game in the middle of the summer; it has since evolved into such irrelevance that it has been cancelled. If you do not see the correlation, you are missing a very critical explanation as to why local fan interest in UL failed to grow along with the increase iof our general population. It started with the implementation of court-ordered busing, as it destroyed the neighborhoods that supported their local HS.

 

[KozmasAgain]

I agree with everything you posted, the local kids that went to Louisville always played from the heart. The fans always wanted to see the local kids do well. The public schools no longer produce as many good products athletically or academically. It is a perfect example of the ripple effect caused by bad leadership.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

Busing was four decades in when we celebrated the Year of the Cardinal. To try to correlate our current performance with something that started a half century ago is IMO ridiculous and at some level an excuse…

 

[KozmasAgain]

Since 2013 can you name the top players from Louisville that were the same caliber as Brian Brohm, Michael Bush, Reggie Bonafon, Devante Parker, Doug Beaumont? I know I am leaving some names out but I can’t remember the 2 brothers from Trinity that played the offensive line. There has only been a couple since those guys left.

The other thing that really hurts Louisville from producing a lot of talent is the mentality of everyone gets a ribbon. The KHSAA won’t let schools practice all year round like the states that produce top talent. Everybody has to be on the same level so like academics instead of raising the bar where everyone is on the same level they lower the bar where everyone is on the same level.

 

[Thecycle27]

Like many debates there is truth in all these posts. Keep in mind during the 70’s and 80’s Louisville was incredibly successful and sports was consumed differently. Football was a non factor in those days. Once football became important Louisville were pioneers. They built the program with a edge. The administration and fans were on the same page. I think constant conference jumping and the football structure hurts fans attendance. We have zero rivals in conference. There is real value in hating conference opponents.

To me though since the scandals Louisville lost its way or focus. We can all agree it wasn’t handle properly on many fronts. Instead of key groups coming together to find the best path forward they, like politicians, stick to their side of the argument.

Lets be real clear winning fixing 90 percent of Louisville’s problems. Both programs look to be on the right path with recruiting. The next 5 years will be interesting to watch.

Also, conference stuff it is impossible to see how this ends. Louisville is not in a great spot if it all falls apart. I would argue college football isn’t in a great spot if it all falls apart and the SEC-Big Ten is all the is left standing.

 

[2330859]

Zipp
There are folks who live in the moment and have a microwave mentality; and for those it is difficult to understand how 4 or 5 decades can affect the experiences that we find ourselves now.

I am sure you will not see the correlation between the Supreme Court’s ruling in 1963 that resulted in removing the Bible from Public School, and the decline that we are witnessing in our culture today. Young people killing others at random with little or no sense of regard for human life. As for me, it is directly related to one another.

 

[CardX]

Mods, feel free to lock this thread up. It's gone off the rails.

 

[LeFors4Ever]

Since 2013 can you name the top players from Louisville that were the same caliber as Brian Brohm, Michael Bush, Reggie Bonafon, Devante Parker, Doug Beaumont? I know I am leaving some names out but I can’t remember the 2 brothers from Trinity that played the offensive line. There has only been a couple since those guys left.

The other thing that really hurts Louisville from producing a lot of talent is the mentality of everyone gets a ribbon. The KHSAA won’t let schools practice all year round like the states that produce top talent. Everybody has to be on the same level so like academics instead of raising the bar where everyone is on the same level they lower the bar where everyone is on the same level.

Rondal freaking Moore #1. That hurts and hurts so bad he wasn’t a Card.

sUcKs came in and took JJ Weaver & Jared Casey. John Young too.

Milton Wright and Steph Herron we’re both 4 stars we let out of the city.

James Quick was high level coming out of Trinity. I think we sell Quick short because of the Clemson game, but remember he was going against ACC completion most of his career.

Rodney Burns signed with Ohio State and ended his career leading us in tackles in 2019. Jarouis Brents was a 4-star. Tahj Rice too, but went to Duke?

 

[Art79]

U of L has one course they should be following to address future conference uncertainty... Improve yourself. We've done damn little of that lately...

UofL's best course is that we substantially grow the metropolitan population, and the university is a relatively minor player in that item. The last two years have shown clearly that the main driver for major conference moves now is television market size.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

We can start a busing thread in the slow summer months, its effects on sports in this community, the talent migration from basketball to football, whatever anyone thinks are long term trends.

U of L athletics have ebbed and flowed a lot in the last 50 years, and I witnessed most of it. To try to relate busing to where we are today would be damn tough for even an analyzer like me to do.

I'm with @CardX to get off of busing in a thread that should have nothing to do with it. If @2330859 wants to deep dive it, yes, we need to move the discussion...

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

UofL's best course is that we substantially grow the metropolitan population, and the university is a relatively minor player in that item. The last two years have shown clearly that the main driver for major conference moves now is television market size.

First, you have to deal with things you can control. As much as I'm a responsibility guy, increasing Louisville's population is not on U of L's to-do list.

With our small market size, we were attractive enough to a couple of major conferences to get or be close to invitations to join. I speculate that might not be the case now were history to repeat. THAT is something we need to control and quickly...

 

[Art79]

Absolutely, UofL must deal with things that we can realistically control, and the metro population /market size is not one of those things. That was exactly the point. So, we do agree there.

We were attractive enough to make it to a couple of major conferences over the past 20 years as probably somewhere along the line of #60-65 to make it to one of those major conferences both times. Well, this time, unless the SEC or the Big 10 expand to much more than the 32 teams they will be at soon (16 in each conference), we've got a lot of ground to cover to rise high enough, and again population/market size is the most important remaining factor.

So, if the goal is to get into one of the two mega-conferences, the odds are very, very long. Anything else, which is much more likely, will leave some complaining that UofL did not do enough, when the reality was there wasn't a realistic chance of making it to those conferences to begin with. Hopefully, the result will still leave us with a chance at the football playoffs and will keep basketball in a good place.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood_rivals307205]

We were attractive enough to make it to a couple of major conferences over the past 20 years as probably somewhere along the line of #60-65 to make it to one of those major conferences both times. Well, this time, unless the SEC or the Big 10 expand to much more than the 32 teams they will be at soon (16 in each conference), we've got a lot of ground to cover to rise high enough, and again population/market size is the most important remaining factor.

So, if the goal is to get into one of the two mega-conferences, the odds are very, very long. Anything else, which is much more likely, will leave some complaining that UofL did not do enough, when the reality was there wasn't a realistic chance of making it to those conferences to begin with.

This appears to be the bottom line.

 

[KozmasAgain]

I would like to keep a positive attitude about the situation but with the people in charge of our university right now it is hard to feel good about it. We have an AD who has very little experience and connections. A interim President who has little experience and connections who is in over her head. A BOT that was appointed by an ex governor who probably didn’t have our best interest in mind. Therefore I don’t feel confident that the BOT will do what is best for us.

 

[MikesMarbles]

Absolutely, UofL must deal with things that we can realistically control, and the metro population /market size is not one of those things. That was exactly the point. So, we do agree there.

We were attractive enough to make it to a couple of major conferences over the past 20 years as probably somewhere along the line of #60-65 to make it to one of those major conferences both times. Well, this time, unless the SEC or the Big 10 expand to much more than the 32 teams they will be at soon (16 in each conference), we've got a lot of ground to cover to rise high enough, and again population/market size is the most important remaining factor.

So, if the goal is to get into one of the two mega-conferences, the odds are very, very long. Anything else, which is much more likely, will leave some complaining that UofL did not do enough, when the reality was there wasn't a realistic chance of making it to those conferences to begin with. Hopefully, the result will still leave us with a chance at the football playoffs and will keep basketball in a good place.

I agree. If the SEC and Big Ten had a combined 60 spots I think they'd have room for UofL. We were the last team selected for the P5. I don't know why we wouldn't be one of the last selected for the P2.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

I'm personally not worried about fitting into a conference somewhere because I don't know how much the existing make-up of conferences matters a decade from now, if not sooner. For one thing, I don't believe that the bottom schools in the SEC and Big Ten conferences are guaranteed to remain in the select 40-50 even though they're raking it in big now.

Our job is to raise ourselves back into that group regardless of current conference affiliations. We've fallen behind programs that we had passed or were passing. You get your own house in order if you want to attract the attention of the networks and what will become of the major conferences.

Anyone who thought we were secure on the national landscape five years ago was badly mistaken. There's never been a more important time for this athletic department to have strong and effective leadership. Recent history shows we need big improvement there immediately...

 

[IrsihPokerDog]

And then you got this

No way any super Div 1 conference has 131 teams….. probably no more than half that number….. BUT, I don’t see Where the SEC and B1G are even close to having mutual conversations

 

[KozmasAgain]

LeFors, all those guys you listed there were only 3 I heard of. They weren’t ranked as high as Brohm and Bush and none of them from what I know had the same impact. They might have been good but no where near the same caliber. Hatcher and Quick could have been great players but they were more interested in pot than football.