WACO
- Thread starter UK till Death
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Unmitigated would mean that the official would face zero consequences for the action. Officers can and should be held accountable.
I'm not saying that the government can do anything, but presumably if they are on your premises they have a warrant to be there and the better recourse would seem to be to go peaceably rather than to start a fire fight. I suppose at some point, if they refuse to acceptable a peaceable surrender then you should fight back, but it's kind of a scary precedent to let people shoot back at cops anytime they feel it's justified.
Of course, I suppose this is presumed that we're not living under a tyrannical government. And I'm not saying I'm right in this, just saying that I struggle with the concept.
Chip and Joanna Gains is from Waco and the psycho liberals is trying to cancel there show because they go to the “wrong church”
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...-pastor-church-not-anti-gay-article-1.2895987
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...-pastor-church-not-anti-gay-article-1.2895987
Could be but why did 3 of his body guards die in the shoot out?
Actual video from the raids.
For all you McVeigh fans.
The initial raid was on 2/28/93, and Reno did not become AG until 3/11/93. She authorized the final raid, but it had gone on long enough and the new administration was taking political heat for being soft. Like I said before, they weren't going to allow them to stay in there forever. Koresh had more than ample opportunity to surrender if he was such a law abiding citizen. It was Koresh's fault.
Political heat?
Oh. No. The horror.
Let's go burn some women and children alive.
kay:Great thread. I've seen mention of the KKK, BLM, antifa, Obama, Hillary and Russia in a thread about an event that happened 25 years ago/new TV show. Criticism of Clinton administration is warranted.
Does every MFing thing have to be political these days?
I was 12 and my lone memory of WACO is being late to a little league game the day of the cookout (fire) because pops couldn't quit watching it on TV. Coach benched me for the first two innings, batted me 9th and put me in right field instead of my usual first base. F David Koresh and the feds and thanks, dad.
After reading about it, it seems like the government over stepped but the kooks weren't all innocent. I don't like government overreach or cults of gullible dipshits, so it's a wash with me.
Does every MFing thing have to be political these days?
I was 12 and my lone memory of WACO is being late to a little league game the day of the cookout (fire) because pops couldn't quit watching it on TV. Coach benched me for the first two innings, batted me 9th and put me in right field instead of my usual first base. F David Koresh and the feds and thanks, dad.
After reading about it, it seems like the government over stepped but the kooks weren't all innocent. I don't like government overreach or cults of gullible dipshits, so it's a wash with me.
On 2/11/93 Reno was nominated by Clinton to be AG.
On 2/28/93 Clinton was POTUS, Reno was AG nominee.
3/11/93 11 days later she was sworn in. She didnt wake up on 3/11 and poof became AG.
4/19/93 was the raid that she authorized. Everything prior had her approval and fingerprints...and her boss's.
Some people can't function without being angry about something every day. I feel bad for people who politicize every aspect of their life.
It is pretty much impossible to get away from "politics" when your late night comics, your Hollywood actors, your Football players on the sidelines before the games...ESPN, big companies buckling to the potential of being "boycotted" for offering a discount to members of the political villain company du jour....... of course social media is filled with it..... so yes it is pretty much impossible.
My point is that I don't politicize every aspect of my life, and I certainly don't let politics interfere with my entertainment choices. I have a couple of friends who have let their lives be ruled by it, spending most of their time being pissed off about something, and most of the time it's something that has absolutely zero effect on their lives. Life is way too short to go around pissed off.
Yup. Everyone has a choice about everything.
"Oh no, a black dude is kneeling on the sidelines of an NFL game! I must run to the internet and make it clear that I am outraged over this!"
Me, I just open my fantasy and 5Dimes apps and hope I have a good day
She was confirmed on 3/11/93. So, yes, she did not become AG until 3/11/93. Clinton had been in office for about five weeks on 2/28/93. He was concerned with pulling the country out of a mild recession, trying to change the healthcare system, appointing people to all of the different jobs that a President has to appoint people to, etc. Show me proof that Clinton had ever heard of David Koresh prior to 2/28/93. It's unlikely that arresting a pseudo-hippie cult leader who was stockpiling automatic weapons on a compound in Waco, TX was on his list of priorities.
Mistakes were made by the feds in the initial raid, I will agree with you there. Those mistakes were not the fault of Bill Clinton and Janet Reno, nor were they approved beforehand by Clinton and Reno. The fire and deaths are totally on Koresh. Here's some advice, when the FBI and ATF surround your house and tell you to come out with your hands up, do it. If you don't then you and you alone are responsible for what happens next.
Sure, the federal and state agencies could have, and should have, tried other tactics, but it seems many are forgetting that Koresh and company were stockpiling weapons, many of them illegal; Koresh was sexually abusing minors, including a 12 year old child bride; Koresh and company had 50 days to end this "standoff" peacefully but instead decided to fire shots at federal and state agents; and Koresh and company started the fires that ultimately led to the deaths of 70+ people, and applied accelerents to their clothing to facilitate mass suicide.
Based on surveillance tapes recorded during the stand-off, and materials found throughout the compound after the conflict, it was obvious there was only one way the situation was intended to end for the remaining Davidians.
Based on surveillance tapes recorded during the stand-off, and materials found throughout the compound after the conflict, it was obvious there was only one way the situation was intended to end for the remaining Davidians.
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Same. I make my own choices. I'm a socially super liberal centrist because I subscribe to live and let live. I can watch sports or TV or listen to the radio without playing my "woe is me, my worldview is persecuted" card.
I don't care who boycotts a company or anything like that. If I like the company's product, I consume it. For example, I disagree with everything Chick-fil-A stands for, but I like their chicken, so I eat there on occasion. I like football. The anthem protests didn't get my panties in a twist or prevent me from watching a sport I love and rooting for the team I've pulled for since birth over symbolic nonsense that affects my personal life in no real way.
The real issue is partisan jagoffs on BOTH sides can't handle the fact that approximately 50 percent of their fellow countrymen - give or take depending on region - see the world differently. Both sides cry like little girls. It's just over different, mostly inconsequential, ****.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Lon Horiuchi's involvement in both Ruby Ridge and Waco. He is the FBI sniper that killed Vicki Weaver at Ruby Ridge, and is also the sniper who was shooting people at Waco who were trying to escape the burning compound through the back entrance.
You've pretty much mimicked the governments story. You should add something about the meaning of "is" or that Clinton didnt really have sex with that woman or....it was a video that caused Benghazi...while you are at it since you seem to believe the government when it just screwed up.
Is "stockpiling" weapons illegal? No.
Did 24 children under 14yo deserve to die? CS gas accelerated the fire. Is CS gas illegal under the geneva convention? Why then did the US Govt use it on children? Look...we are not going to agree. You believe everything a govt run by the Clinton's or the Dems say. When its a GOP POTUS....they lie. So we are wasting time trying to convince each other about Waco. I blame Koresh for not ending the siege though I can see that the feds did exactly everything they could to reinforce what he had been saying. The feds shot first and then used torture tactics the left froths about when used at Abu Graib against terrorists....but it was okay to to beat the Davidians, women and children, into submission.
-don't know about you fellas, but I think the state (fbi/atf and such) should be held to *much* higher standards than a cult leader.
-funny that many of the same folks that trip all over themselves to give cover to federal law enforcement agencies(under *certain* admins) rarely have the same attitude when a cop shoots a dude in a high stress situation. I'm no badge worshiper by any means...it's just that this seems inconsistent.
-funny that many of the same folks that trip all over themselves to give cover to federal law enforcement agencies(under *certain* admins) rarely have the same attitude when a cop shoots a dude in a high stress situation. I'm no badge worshiper by any means...it's just that this seems inconsistent.
You've pretty much parroted any gullible, tin-foil-hat conspiracy theorist that takes everything on the internet as truth.
Never said stockpiling legal weapons was illegal, but pointed out that the Davidians were amassing illegal weapons....which is illegal. The original warrant to search the premises was obtained under the suspicion that the compound was chock fulla weapons illegaly converted to be automatic as well as improvised explosive devises.
Also never said children deserved to die.
No, the CS gas used in the Waco siege is not flammable and is not accelerant. State and federal law enforcement agencies employ several tactics that are banned during warfare under the Geneva convention during warfare, including tear gas for riot control.
And like I said, the state and federal agencies should have used different tactics to diffuse the situation. Some members of the FBI and Texas Rangers should have faced charges.
I'm not choosing to believe the government, rather independent and special investigations into the matter. I don't care who was president, Koresh was a lunatic rapist starved for attention and hellbent on killing his own brainwashed followers, including 24 children under the age of 14. But I wish that he were taken into custody alive, stood trial, and serve his time rather than committing mass suicide and ending the lives of ~ 70 people.
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Not to mention that the same folks practictly schitted themselves over placing a washcloth over a terrorists face and pouring a pitcher of water over him.
That was Bushitler they say. Naked twister at Abu Graib is a war crime they say because of Bush....but Clinton Reno burn 24 little children to death plus about twenty moms.....and they deserved it....becausr it was their FBI under Clinton. Under Clinton-Reno you can actually torture innocent women and children. Under Bush you are a war criminal for pouring water on them. Amazing.
You must be involved in another awful WACO discussion outside of this awful WACO thread....because no one in this thread is saying the branch davidians deserved to die.
What is being said is that the ATF had legitimate reasons to obtain a search warrant and enter the compound on the grounds of illegal weapon activity, and Koresh rightfully needed to be brought into custody for sexually abusing kids, and that the fires were started by the branch davidians themselves in their attempt to witness the foretold apocalypse through mass suicide.
Just curious - a compound full of people refusing to cooperate and fully armed is not high stress?
I have NO doubt the government grossly mishandled Waco - but that does not dissolve David K from all blame. I also don’t have any other agendas where I believe the left or right is evil and trying to ruin America.
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- the government grossly mishandled the situation ***and*** Koresh is to blame.
-by high stress...I meant "sudden/somewhat unexpected".
-by high stress...I meant "sudden/somewhat unexpected".
Good post. A lot of people should really try to ignore politics and get off social media for a while (or for good preferably). Enjoy life, quit crying and worrying about sh*t you will never be able to control. Hell, it’s gotten so bad prople will argue til death about something that happened 25 years ago smh.
Didn't recognize that name at first...because I had never heard his last name. I only know him by his nickname: "Grassy Knoll" Lon.
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