Wait a sec...Redmond listed as a Soph?
- Thread starter treeddeep
- Start date
Compliance-wise...
"We can hand you all this money. You'll be fine here. Our compliance dept has our backs and will protect you" "but those idiots over at Mississippi State will hang you out to dry over a couple hundred dollars -- just look at what they did to Will Redmond"
Thanks for explaining it for those who still think Dan and our current Admin. will "right the ship".
Just FYI, as another poster showed on here... Bracky is a direct report to Mark Keenum.
no blame for the guy that chose to violate rules in the first place?
Yeah, because Redmond had nothing to do with it.
Yeah, because Redmond had nothing to do with it.
what?
Nobody is arguing WR messed up. But 18 months worth of punishment. We are the only School in the SEC that would have self-imposed this ********.
Nobody is arguing WR messed up. But 18 months worth of punishment. We are the only School in the SEC that would have self-imposed this ********.
God forbid the quarterback in this video take a total of $600 dollars cash, a jacket, and a reasonable discount on a means of transportation so he could actually get to/from MSU and out of a ghetto most of us can't imagine. Totally unreasonable for a kid, whose dad had recently died(I believe he was murdered but can't confirm quickly), accept ANYTHING in return for the right to play for MSU...
Wake up people. EVERY decent baseball player in the SEC gets more in the way of impermissible benefits than we were found to have provided Will Redmond. It's not some idealistic utopia where everyone reads and obeys the NCAA book to the letter. EVERYONE is cheating. EVERY player is getting "impermissible" benefits. Be it free meals/drinks when he goes out, cash in PO Boxes, deals on transportation, free gym access in their hometown, etc...The ONLY reason this ever was a story is because our compliance staff is incompetent...
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I believe he lost his eligibility last year because he lied to the NCAA at first. The 5 games this year was the actual punishment for the improper benefits.
You have some serious misdirected blame
Bracky may suck at his job, who knows.
But to place the blame for this at the feet of Bracky is dumb. Bracky didnt break NCAA rules. Bracky didnt put Redmond in this position.
Redmond put Redmond in this position.
That is all I am saying. I am not saying the penalty is deserved. I am not saying the penalty is too severe.
All I am saying is your claim that Bracky is to blame for Redmond breaking rules is dumb.
Bracky may suck at his job, who knows.
But to place the blame for this at the feet of Bracky is dumb. Bracky didnt break NCAA rules. Bracky didnt put Redmond in this position.
Redmond put Redmond in this position.
That is all I am saying. I am not saying the penalty is deserved. I am not saying the penalty is too severe.
All I am saying is your claim that Bracky is to blame for Redmond breaking rules is dumb.
If something is not allowed under the current NCAA rules, then when someone does what isnt allowed, they place themselves in a position to be penalized for breaking the rules.
Its that simple. All the emotional justification about getting to and from school or dead parents is beside the point. And lets be clear- the point is breaking rules.
You clearly dont like the rules. Cool. I find a lot of NCAA rules to be inconsistent and contrary to logic. Rules that I disagree with both help and hurt the student athlete.
But they are the rules now, so they need to be followed or student athletes are setting themselves up to be penalized.
I dont think marijuana should be illegal, but that doesnt mean I think people should ignore the law and cry foul when they are arrested. Its an illegal substance, they knew its an illegal substance, and they are breaking the law.
The point is that Redmond shouldn't have actually gotten into any real trouble for what he did, and if we were looking out for HIS best interest, it would have been a slap on the wrist at most.
Likening it to your marijuana example -- you are OK with someone spending several months in jail and losing their job and possibly their house and car over simple possession? You are fine with that when most people get a simple ticket for it, if not just confiscation and a verbal reprimand? Because I wouldn't be OK with that happening either. While it is, technically, the person's fault for putting themselves in that position, it would NOT BE their fault that they suffered such severe penalties. That would fall directly at the feet of his lawyer, which in this case = MSU compliance.
So, you are of the opinion that selectively enforced rules should be followed by all. Cool. Don't let me catch you bitching about our recruiting at any point in the future, when we are literally playing tiddlywinks while everyone else plays no-limit poker...
Likening it to your marijuana example -- you are OK with someone spending several months in jail and losing their job and possibly their house and car over simple possession? You are fine with that when most people get a simple ticket for it, if not just confiscation and a verbal reprimand? Because I wouldn't be OK with that happening either. While it is, technically, the person's fault for putting themselves in that position, it would NOT BE their fault that they suffered such severe penalties. That would fall directly at the feet of his lawyer, which in this case = MSU compliance.
So, you are of the opinion that selectively enforced rules should be followed by all. Cool. Don't let me catch you bitching about our recruiting at any point in the future, when we are literally playing tiddlywinks while everyone else plays no-limit poker...
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All I said is that Bracky is the blame for WR being a Soph. Way to much punishment for the crime. I never said WR did not do something wrong. Manziel got held out for a half of a game for making money selling autographs and WR gets suspended for 18 games!
Ha Ha Clinton-Dix received money FROM A COACH. Not a rouge booster - A COACH. And he got two games.
"But it was just a loan". Yeah, it that's what it was after he got caught. Regardless, it makes not difference if it was a loan or a handout. A COACH WAS THE BAG MAN!!!! And Clinton-Dix got TWO games. Not eighteen, TWO!!!
OVERHAUL. COMPLIANCE. NOW.
I generally agree with you that Redmond got too much of a penalty, but MSU compliance is not the equivalent of his lawyer and shouldn't be. MSU compliance has to look out for MSU first and foremost.
Having said that, watching the kid play, he's good enough that we should have gone more to the mat for him.
Having said that, watching the kid play, he's good enough that we should have gone more to the mat for him.
Compliance is handled by law firms under leadership provided by former NCAA investigators everywhere else. It IS the equivalent of a "lawyer" there to protect the interest of the school, and by proxy, it's student athletes. At least, that's how MODERN compliance departments do it.
In our case, compliance is there to make sure NO NCAA rules are broken -- and if/when they are, they are self-reported immediately with stiffer repercussions than we can fathom the NCAA giving us on their own.
Surely everyone can see the difference here...
I agree with this. We're now operating under the weight of repeat offenders' clause for SEVEN years. Seems to me they did a pretty crappy job of protecting MSU -- and an even worse job of protecting Will Redmond.
Agreed...
My only point is that if we had been competent, we would never have heard about the issue -- and Will Redmond probably gets PT as a true freshman. It was a story that could never be proven with the right people running the show. We just took De'Vinner's word for it and fried ourselves -- when everyone else would have told him he's full of crap, attacked his character(it's an EASY target), and otherwise nailed him to a wall(like Tennessee has done to him since).
Dont break rules- rules that are incredibly well know(not the tough to interpret minor ones)- and you dont ever have to be 'defended' by Bracky.
As for comparing him to a lawyer- a lawyer isnt employed by an insurance company while representing an insurance company's client. Its why lawyers are instead employed by law firms who have insurance companies as clients.
Its an issue of competing interests otherwise.
Same goes here- Bracky isnt his lawyer. He shouldnt be his lawyer. Bracky is employed by the school to ensure the school stays compliant.
It was a harsh penalty, absolutely. You recognize that breaking the rules has something to do with getting in trouble, it really just seems like you dont value it in the same way as I do. I'd say 90% of this is because Redmond broke the rules(a really obvious one). It seems like you would say Redmond is the opposite- about 10% responsible for this and that Bracky is at fault for the rest.
As for comparing him to a lawyer- a lawyer isnt employed by an insurance company while representing an insurance company's client. Its why lawyers are instead employed by law firms who have insurance companies as clients.
Its an issue of competing interests otherwise.
Same goes here- Bracky isnt his lawyer. He shouldnt be his lawyer. Bracky is employed by the school to ensure the school stays compliant.
It was a harsh penalty, absolutely. You recognize that breaking the rules has something to do with getting in trouble, it really just seems like you dont value it in the same way as I do. I'd say 90% of this is because Redmond broke the rules(a really obvious one). It seems like you would say Redmond is the opposite- about 10% responsible for this and that Bracky is at fault for the rest.
That's correct. Your ideal toward compliance(which MSU also employs) is exactly the problem defining our limitations are with recruiting and compliance right now.
"Don't cheat at all or face the harsh penalties" = You can expect to come in last in everything you do in recruiting. Once you see behind the veil in recruiting, you can't unsee it. And I'm telling you -- EVERY SINGLE BASEBALL PLAYER(not EVEN going down the wormholes that are football or basketball) receives $2k+ in what the NCAA calls impermissible benefits before/during their time at a school -- INCLUDING those that play at MSU.
What about baseball players that are given permission to hunt alumni land that only receive that benefit because they were baseball players and met the alumni through that avenue? How much is that "worth"? Free reign on 500 acres that would be worth $15/acre to lease = $7500 in impermissible benefits. See how it works and how slippery the slope is?
Yes, compliance = lawyers. Everywhere but MSU. The fact that you portray MSU and our Student-Athletes as enemies in the process again explains EXACTLY why we can't recruit for ****. Why would a kid come play for us for a team that preeminently considers him he enemy for free -- when he could go play for 13 other schools in the conference who consider him the friend and will protect him at all costs while also getting a few $$? There's a trust factor there that MSU has consistently violated.
I contend that compliance is there to protect a school and prevent them from getting into trouble -- not "to make sure every rule is followed". If it was "to make sure every rule is followed" -- it would be doing it on the NCAA's dime and not MSU's dime. The way we currently do things is biting the hands that feed us instead of protecting and insulating those hands.
Redmond was responsible for his mistake -- but WE were responsible for his punishment.
"Don't cheat at all or face the harsh penalties" = You can expect to come in last in everything you do in recruiting. Once you see behind the veil in recruiting, you can't unsee it. And I'm telling you -- EVERY SINGLE BASEBALL PLAYER(not EVEN going down the wormholes that are football or basketball) receives $2k+ in what the NCAA calls impermissible benefits before/during their time at a school -- INCLUDING those that play at MSU.
What about baseball players that are given permission to hunt alumni land that only receive that benefit because they were baseball players and met the alumni through that avenue? How much is that "worth"? Free reign on 500 acres that would be worth $15/acre to lease = $7500 in impermissible benefits. See how it works and how slippery the slope is?
Yes, compliance = lawyers. Everywhere but MSU. The fact that you portray MSU and our Student-Athletes as enemies in the process again explains EXACTLY why we can't recruit for ****. Why would a kid come play for us for a team that preeminently considers him he enemy for free -- when he could go play for 13 other schools in the conference who consider him the friend and will protect him at all costs while also getting a few $$? There's a trust factor there that MSU has consistently violated.
I contend that compliance is there to protect a school and prevent them from getting into trouble -- not "to make sure every rule is followed". If it was "to make sure every rule is followed" -- it would be doing it on the NCAA's dime and not MSU's dime. The way we currently do things is biting the hands that feed us instead of protecting and insulating those hands.
Redmond was responsible for his mistake -- but WE were responsible for his punishment.
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