West>East: WHY?

[CatScratchFever23]

A quick look at the record books shows the disparity is only in football. The baseball, basketball and soccer championships are more evenly spread out if not slanted to the east since 2000.

Soccer at the highest level 4A is dominated by the east. 3A is evenly split.
Baseball at the highest level 4A shows a slight edge to the east.
Basketball - the west holds a slight edge in 4A but the east dominates 3A.

I know there is not a dimes bit of difference in the athletes across the state so I have to think its the system and coaching. There are some great coaches across the state but there may be more in the west, potentially due to financial opportunities for the spouse.

A previous poster mentioned discipline may be lacking in the east but that is a direct reflection of coaching.

Certainly a very interesting topic.

 

[CoachKnowy]

Couple of comments here...

1. Most schools in the east offer weight lifting as a class during the school day. Depending upon the school and administration, working out some kinks for all the kids that take college classes off campus and/or of a coach wants all he football guy in one specific class. Make no mistake about it, IT CAN BE DONE, but it is just a matter if the administration wants to do it and is it important enough for them to do so. For those that do not offer it as a regular class, their football programs will most likely never make it Thanksgiving let alone all the way to the state title game.

2. I think schematics are schematics. If you can coach your scheme whether it is spread, T, option, Wing-t or some other flavor as long as you can make the necessary adjustments and coach the specific details you can be successful. With that said, I think a point to be made is this. In the west, more teams run spread than in the east. Once you get east of 95, 1A-4A you will see probably 50% or more run Singlewing, Wing-t, T or some form of option whether it is under center or in the gun. From 5A-8A this percentage shift more to a spread mind set but will still see some of these same offenses. Of the teams that run these spread offenses, a large portion of them are in that scheme because they feel their athletes are better than others and can put their athletes in the best position to be successful but not many of them run complex schemes. There are some teams that run complex schemes and those usually are the ones who make deeper runs unless they just out athlete everyone along the way. In the west however, I think there is a larger portion of the better teams that actually run more complex schemes and understand reading coverages not only from a QB stand point but also from a WR standpoint. If you don't believe me, just look at the film of the games and notice the difference.

So now lets answer the question asked originally, why the west is better than the east. If these western teams practice and play against teams that run these complex schemes on a regular basis, they will be more prepared to play a team in the east who may not have practiced, played or ran these same complex schemes or faced high level competition that does. This gives the western teams, if both are running a spread system, a distinct advantage. If however, where the east has an advantage, and when I say east I mean teams east of 95, is when a team has the talent, scheme and coaching to run the Wing-T, T, Singlewing, option etc. The west does not see those as much and it is much harder to prepare for it in a weeks time.

In short, be better or be different.

 

[SouthEast]

Eastern schools don't pay their coaches good at all. You have a few exceptions obviously in the more well developed areas and the schools that are in city school systems. I don't know about out West but most east HC's are 10 month employees as well so they aren't getting paid for June and July where they are at the school almost every week day still. When Eastern schools find good HC's they don't stay around long because of this, they go find better paying jobs and you can't blame them.

 

[beamer24]

Couple of comments here...

1. Most schools in the east offer weight lifting as a class during the school day. Depending upon the school and administration, working out some kinks for all the kids that take college classes off campus and/or of a coach wants all he football guy in one specific class. Make no mistake about it, IT CAN BE DONE, but it is just a matter if the administration wants to do it and is it important enough for them to do so. For those that do not offer it as a regular class, their football programs will most likely never make it Thanksgiving let alone all the way to the state title game.

2. I think schematics are schematics. If you can coach your scheme whether it is spread, T, option, Wing-t or some other flavor as long as you can make the necessary adjustments and coach the specific details you can be successful. With that said, I think a point to be made is this. In the west, more teams run spread than in the east. Once you get east of 95, 1A-4A you will see probably 50% or more run Singlewing, Wing-t, T or some form of option whether it is under center or in the gun. From 5A-8A this percentage shift more to a spread mind set but will still see some of these same offenses. Of the teams that run these spread offenses, a large portion of them are in that scheme because they feel their athletes are better than others and can put their athletes in the best position to be successful but not many of them run complex schemes. There are some teams that run complex schemes and those usually are the ones who make deeper runs unless they just out athlete everyone along the way. In the west however, I think there is a larger portion of the better teams that actually run more complex schemes and understand reading coverages not only from a QB stand point but also from a WR standpoint. If you don't believe me, just look at the film of the games and notice the difference.

So now lets answer the question asked originally, why the west is better than the east. If these western teams practice and play against teams that run these complex schemes on a regular basis, they will be more prepared to play a team in the east who may not have practiced, played or ran these same complex schemes or faced high level competition that does. This gives the western teams, if both are running a spread system, a distinct advantage. If however, where the east has an advantage, and when I say east I mean teams east of 95, is when a team has the talent, scheme and coaching to run the Wing-T, T, Singlewing, option etc. The west does not see those as much and it is much harder to prepare for it in a weeks time.

In short, be better or be different.

Watauga is a case study on be different. They line up 3 and 4 wide and throw for 300 yds and next thing you know they are in flex bone running triple option.

 

[Chopper747_2.0]

Couple of comments here...

1. Most schools in the east offer weight lifting as a class during the school day. Depending upon the school and administration, working out some kinks for all the kids that take college classes off campus and/or of a coach wants all he football guy in one specific class. Make no mistake about it, IT CAN BE DONE, but it is just a matter if the administration wants to do it and is it important enough for them to do so. For those that do not offer it as a regular class, their football programs will most likely never make it Thanksgiving let alone all the way to the state title game.

2. I think schematics are schematics. If you can coach your scheme whether it is spread, T, option, Wing-t or some other flavor as long as you can make the necessary adjustments and coach the specific details you can be successful. With that said, I think a point to be made is this. In the west, more teams run spread than in the east. Once you get east of 95, 1A-4A you will see probably 50% or more run Singlewing, Wing-t, T or some form of option whether it is under center or in the gun. From 5A-8A this percentage shift more to a spread mind set but will still see some of these same offenses. Of the teams that run these spread offenses, a large portion of them are in that scheme because they feel their athletes are better than others and can put their athletes in the best position to be successful but not many of them run complex schemes. There are some teams that run complex schemes and those usually are the ones who make deeper runs unless they just out athlete everyone along the way. In the west however, I think there is a larger portion of the better teams that actually run more complex schemes and understand reading coverages not only from a QB stand point but also from a WR standpoint. If you don't believe me, just look at the film of the games and notice the difference.

So now lets answer the question asked originally, why the west is better than the east. If these western teams practice and play against teams that run these complex schemes on a regular basis, they will be more prepared to play a team in the east who may not have practiced, played or ran these same complex schemes or faced high level competition that does. This gives the western teams, if both are running a spread system, a distinct advantage. If however, where the east has an advantage, and when I say east I mean teams east of 95, is when a team has the talent, scheme and coaching to run the Wing-T, T, Singlewing, option etc. The west does not see those as much and it is much harder to prepare for it in a weeks time.

In short, be better or be different.

Im not reading all this in one swoop.

your one post cause some of us to have to take a whole week to finish this thread. That said I respect the detail.

 

[The Patriot]

I have an obsessive-compulsive streak and wanted to know what I could find out by looking at the NCHSAA record books. I went back 40 years for every sport which I think is a "team sport" which meant I excluded golf, tennis, track and swimming and diving. I know there are team championships in those sports, but I had a big enough task to compile the results I got.
Now, I excluded the covid season where everyone was declared "co-champions" and there were some years where a sport didn't play for a title in four classifications. There were also some championships which were vacated so they didn't count.
Bottom line: of the 1619 championships decided either since the sport began or going back to 1985, using the list of champions that could be found online, the west won 904 or 56%.
Below is what I found:

WBB 113 of 160

MBB 86 of 156

Wrestling duals 71 of 124

Cross Country 177 of 278 (both men and women)

VB 81 of 146

Football 129 of 228

Men’s soccer 58 of 135

Baseball 63 of 148

WLAX 3 of 13

MLAX 12 of 22

Softball 66 of 106

Women’s soccer 45 of 103

Unless the sport had results in the championship listed (which let me see east and west more clearly) I only counted a team that was clearly from the west. Unless I knew they were in the west, such as a Uwharrie Charter School I watched beat Draughn in baseball, I counted teams that were borderline in the east. So, there were times when Reidsville or a team from Randolph or Chatham County might have represented the west, but I counted them as east unless I could see that they beat a clearly more eastern team.

The east has a clear advantage in soccer (men's and women's), baseball and women's lacrosse. For the other sports the west wins 55-60% of the time. That's not the dominance I expected, but it's clear the west wins a majority of championships, and this trend goes back for a long time.

 

[TreyScott_NC]

So if it’s just football dominance it has to be scheme and coaching… i definitely could see community support helping as well

 

[Chopper747_2.0]

I have an obsessive-compulsive streak and wanted to know what I could find out by looking at the NCHSAA record books. I went back 40 years for every sport which I think is a "team sport" which meant I excluded golf, tennis, track and swimming and diving. I know there are team championships in those sports, but I had a big enough task to compile the results I got.
Now, I excluded the covid season where everyone was declared "co-champions" and there were some years where a sport didn't play for a title in four classifications. There were also some championships which were vacated so they didn't count.
Bottom line: of the 1619 championships decided either since the sport began or going back to 1985, using the list of champions that could be found online, the west won 904 or 56%.
Below is what I found:

WBB 113 of 160

MBB 86 of 156

Wrestling duals 71 of 124

Cross Country 177 of 278 (both men and women)

VB 81 of 146

Football 129 of 228

Men’s soccer 58 of 135

Baseball 63 of 148

WLAX 3 of 13

MLAX 12 of 22

Softball 66 of 106

Women’s soccer 45 of 103

Unless the sport had results in the championship listed (which let me see east and west more clearly) I only counted a team that was clearly from the west. Unless I knew they were in the west, such as a Uwharrie Charter School I watched beat Draughn in baseball, I counted teams that were borderline in the east. So, there were times when Reidsville or a team from Randolph or Chatham County might have represented the west, but I counted them as east unless I could see that they beat a clearly more eastern team.

The east has a clear advantage in soccer (men's and women's), baseball and women's lacrosse. For the other sports the west wins 55-60% of the time. That's not the dominance I expected, but it's clear the west wins a majority of championships, and this trend goes back for a long time.

If they're west of Durham I count them west, even if the east donates those Triad teams.

Basically if the area code USED to be 704 I count them as west.

 

[Chopper747_2.0]

So if it’s just football dominance it has to be scheme and coaching… i definitely could see community support helping as well

it's a mix of everything , scheme, coaching, off season training, off season camps(kids learn alot in camp that increase their football IQ).

East has un-nurtured talent

 

[The Patriot]

If they're west of Durham I count them west, even if the east donates those Triad teams.

Basically if the area code USED to be 704 I count them as west.

I think that's fine, but I wanted to be as fair as possible. There were several times when I counted N. Guilford, E. Guilford, SEG or some other team that might normally be west in the east unless I was certain they were the western representative. For now, I think the Guilford/Alamance County line is a good border, but you still get exceptions (for wrestling you had some years where a Durham County team was wrestling against Cary for the championship).

 

[beamer24]

Off topic but I wish we had a few Juco football schools in NC. Only one I know of is in Louisburg.

 

[Oldway44]

Duplin County is about as rural as it gets and unless you are getting a job in hog or chicken industry you probably not moving here. So what happens for the most part is you see the same last names playing at all 4 schools that you have seen for 40 years or more. Not lots of transfers coming here and I'm talking all four schools. I'm not saying never but very seldom. But as far as community support it's as good as it gets here for all schools. All schools have weight class and football here is year around. Rec program is great here. I know ED rec program have 200 or more kids in it and other schools are close to that. We send kids to camps, have travel teams, and yes play in 7 on 7 all summer.
I know Chopper loves to talk about as he say Pop Warner offense but is what it is. Sometimes it works sometimes it don't but Duplin schools are always in the conversation for the East.
Duplin is different than lots of countries in the East but guess what I'm trying is we do pretty good for a fairly poor rural country.
And as far as coaches I wouldn't trade ours at ED for any other in the state. !!!!
Just saying all the East is not the same.

 

[SHS LION]

I personally think the west is blessed with a lot more top tier programs. These are the programs that make football a year round sport with coaches that never stop. Feeder systems are also so important to having a good program. But there is a lot of really bad football in the west.

 

[TheJims]

Man if Catawba Valley CC

Duplin County is about as rural as it gets and unless you are getting a job in hog or chicken industry you probably not moving here. So what happens for the most part is you see the same last names playing at all 4 schools that you have seen for 40 years or more. Not lots of transfers coming here and I'm talking all four schools. I'm not saying never but very seldom. But as far as community support it's as good as it gets here for all schools. All schools have weight class and football here is year around. Rec program is great here. I know ED rec program have 200 or more kids in it and other schools are close to that. We send kids to camps, have travel teams, and yes play in 7 on 7 all summer.
I know Chopper loves to talk about as he say Pop Warner offense but is what it is. Sometimes it works sometimes it don't but Duplin schools are always in the conversation for the East.
Duplin is different than lots of countries in the East but guess what I'm trying is we do pretty good for a fairly poor rural country.
And as far as coaches I wouldn't trade ours at ED for any other in the state. !!!!
Just saying all the East is not the same.

I'd say Duplin has been more than doing pretty good. 2 programs that were dynasties and 2 more that have been really good in the 2000s and North has a state title also right? I know they at least have an appearance or 2.

But everything you mentioned is why those programs have been so good. Definitely an anomaly in the east.

 

[Chopper747_2.0]

Duplin County is about as rural as it gets and unless you are getting a job in hog or chicken industry you probably not moving here. So what happens for the most part is you see the same last names playing at all 4 schools that you have seen for 40 years or more. Not lots of transfers coming here and I'm talking all four schools. I'm not saying never but very seldom. But as far as community support it's as good as it gets here for all schools. All schools have weight class and football here is year around. Rec program is great here. I know ED rec program have 200 or more kids in it and other schools are close to that. We send kids to camps, have travel teams, and yes play in 7 on 7 all summer.
I know Chopper loves to talk about as he say Pop Warner offense but is what it is. Sometimes it works sometimes it don't but Duplin schools are always in the conversation for the East.
Duplin is different than lots of countries in the East but guess what I'm trying is we do pretty good for a fairly poor rural country.
And as far as coaches I wouldn't trade ours at ED for any other in the state. !!!!
Just saying all the East is not the same.

Hey I'm not that clueless. I remember when ED was the thorn in Clinton's side when Clinton was up, now Clinton is ED's practice game.