West Virginia's 3-3-5 Defense

[Knight Shift]

Interesting article on how WVU went back to what is considered an oddball 3-3-5 defense.
The words "swarm" and "swarming" made me think of our 2006 defense. Snippets below. But with our undersized DL, would a 3-3-5 work for us? WVU has 10 returning starters, so the experience certainly helps. But we are young . . . . (where did we hear that?)

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ineers-football-defense-tony-gibson/73164036/

"Credit goes to a fast, swarming group of veteran players led by hybrid safeties Karl Joseph and K.J. Dillon. But the unusual scheme — this is far too simple, but it’s essentially a very aggressive version of nickel defense, all the time"

“We’re built for speed,” Holgorsen says of the Mountaineers’ defense. “Being in the Big 12, you need speed on the field.”

The bludgeoning seemed like validation for those who consider the 3-3-5 inadequate to stop physical running games. In 2014, West Virginia allowed an average of 162 rushing yards, which ranked No. 65 nationally. The counter is that with only three linemen, the Mountaineers can put athletic players on the field and then swarm.

“We feel with what we do and how we do it that we would rather have more speed on the field,” Gibson says. “We’ve got eight athletes out there on their feet seeing the ball. We’re gonna get off blocks and get as many guys to the football as we can.”

 

[Scarlet Shack]

I LOVE the 3-3-5 and I love the 4-4-3

The key in both defenses is having two outside linebadker/saftey types that can really get physical in the run and play in space and match the slot and third receivers

With those two guys...a 3-3-5 allows you to play base against the run to make it essentially a 3-5-3

And the 4-4-3 with those two guys makes it like playing nickel with case coverage

Having Greene allowrd is this luxury in 2011-2012

Having renkhart and Greene in 2006 allowed this

 

[Knight Shift]

I LOVE the 3-3-5 and I love the 4-4-3

The key in both defenses is having two outside linebadker/saftey types that can really get physical in the run and play in space and match the slot and third receivers

With those two guys...a 3-3-5 allows you to play base against the run to make it essentially a 3-5-3

And the 4-4-3 with those two guys makes it like playing nickel with case coverage

Having Greene allowrd is this luxury in 2011-2012

Having renkhart and Greene in 2006 allowed this

Is this something Rutgers can/could do? There was something in the linked story about WVU having problems recruiting the big DL recruits, and this package helps them overcome that deficiency. Life and coaching is all about overcoming deficiencies and doing the best you can with what you have--play the hand you have been dealt, but play it well. I suspect we are not doing that right now, or we are too young in the secondary. One bright spot last week was Hester--he had I think 9 tackles and almost had 2 INTs. If Hester can keep repeating that performance, and we have Cioffi, there are 2 building blocks. . . ?

 

[seels2662]

Hehe we just lost half our defensive backs and now we want to run a glorified nickel defense all the time

 

[kupuna133]

See this more of a package to defense the more pass happy offenses of the Big 12 and to a lesser extent the old Big East. 3-3-5 allows for more of the defenders to play in space and puts more emphasis on the front 3 being disruptors and pass rushers rather than run stoppers. Big 10 offenses are less pass happy and more grind it out run so I do not think this would work in the BIG outside of special situations.

 

[Knight Shift]

See this more of a package to defense the more pass happy offenses of the Big 12 and to a lesser extent the old Big East. 3-3-5 allows for more of the defenders to play in space and puts more emphasis on the front 3 being disruptors and pass rushers rather than run stoppers. Big 10 offenses are less pass happy and more grind it out run so I do not think this would work in the BIG outside of special situations.

Read the article. It works against the run too, according to the DC at WVU.

 

[Knight Shift]

Hehe we just lost half our defensive backs and now we want to run a glorified nickel defense all the time

Never said that. Just said that we have small DL. Also acknowledged that RU is young at the defensive secondary. We'll see how we do against Michigan State soon enough.

 

[RUich]

Yeah, the word "swarm" is now history with RU's defense.
I believe we are now running something called "electric" defense. It is based on the games that had magnetized players vibrating in no specific direction to electrical stimulation.

 

[biazza38]

This would not work for us unfortunately. Team's like MSU, Wisco, OSU, etc would gash us on the run with that kind of D.

I do find it interesting and probably something we should have used against WSU

 

[RU31trap]

The 3-3-5 defense is the best at shutting down the pass. So why is it rare at the collegiate level? Because you need 3 pro bowl caliber Nose tackles up front which will demand double teams. Your MLB is usually a very fast 3-technique DT. The outside LB must be fundamentally sound and very fast. This defense creates fits for the passing game by fielding 2 safeties and 3 CB's. A crossing route can be a death sentence for WR. Also, this defense usually brings a SS blitz from the blindside which can be devastating.

This Defense is rarely used because it is so difficult to recruit top caliber NT/DT.

 

[kupuna133]

Read the article. It works against the run too, according to the DC at WVU.

I read the article. Any defensive scheme can be used to stop the run. This defense is based upon defending the entire field ie. spread offenses, pass first offenses the offenses of the Big 12 and old Big East. Can you use it in the Big 10 yes but will have difficulty with the quintessential offense of the BIG, which historically are based upon between the tackle running.

 

[miketd1]

That will work will in a spread, pass-happy league like the BigXII.

RichRod got absolutely blown off the field when he tried that at Michigan. His stubborn adherence to the 3-3-5 was one of the primary reasons he was canned.

 

[rurichdog]

We have trouble making sound tackles at the point of initial contact. This defense would make us look worse.

 

[miketd1]

I'm a much bigger fan of MSU's 4-3 "quarters" defense. Simple, easy to teach.

Of course most defenses will look good with NFL-caliber DBs (including our own).

 

[PSU_Nut_rivals17625]

Funny they don't mention how WVU defense was 66 in the nation in total defense and 72 in scoring defense. So they say they swarm but in the end they didn't stop many people.

 

[mdh2003]

Yeah, the word "swarm" is now history with RU's defense.
I believe we are now running something called "electric" defense. It is based on the games that had magnetized players vibrating in no specific direction to electrical stimulation.

LOL. I think its based more on vibration, but funny as hell anyway.

 

[RUich]

Mdh,
I stand corrected! :clap:

I had one of those games and it frustrated the hell out of me with my players just randomly moving around. Kind of like how I am not feeling watching RU today.

 

[Harrell]

That will work will in a spread, pass-happy league like the BigXII.

RichRod got absolutely blown off the field when he tried that at Michigan. His stubborn adherence to the 3-3-5 was one of the primary reasons he was canned.

He didn't have Casteel with him, now he does, big difference.

 

[miketd1]

You have a valid point, but IMO, the 3-3-5 would still fail in a power running league unless you were consistently playing with a lead.

 

[LotusAggressor_rivals]

Rodriguez used this defense in the B1G when he was at Michigan and the offenses in this conference went through it like a hot knife through soft butter. For RU to implement this, they would need much better coaches and lots of opponents with below average offensive lines.

 

[LotusAggressor_rivals]

Read the article. It works against the run too, according to the DC at WVU.

It works against the run if the opponent can't block people.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

Hehe we just lost half our defensive backs and now we want to run a glorified nickel defense all the time

How soon people forget, right? When all this went down in preseason, many many many people here predicted severe problems on D.

And if you want to really remember 2006's D.. you have to remember that we lost some good players from a pretty good 2005 D and most predicted a decline in D for 2006... instead we saw a D really come together and work like a well-oiled machine.

I am convinced that this happened because Schiano was really the DC the entire time he was here. And when we were getting crushed in his first three years, it was because Schiano demanded the team play as if they were an elite defense. Eventually, "institutional memory' took hold and upperclassmen could instruct the underclassmen as to what was expected.. and playing Schiano's D became embedded in the DNA of the players. Eric Foster's CHOP mantra may have been the most telling visible sign of that. But certainly the way the LBs flew around the field as if they knew where they were going the entire time.. well, that spoke a lot to me. And I loved every second of it.

Unfortunately.. we have lost that. Maybe if we held onto Rob Smith we had a shot. Hey. what's he doing now?

 

[LotusAggressor_rivals]

That 2006 defense had Eric Foster and Ramel Meekins, who were both unblockable that whole season. There aren't any d-linemen like that on this team. That team also had corners that could actually cover people, safeties with ball skills, and a real Defensive Coordinator.