What’s the condition of the golf course you play on a regular basis?

Uscg1984

Well-known member
Jan 28, 2022
1,243
1,681
113
How long is your golf season up there?
Roughly six months, but the beginning and end are very spotty. Generally, April and October are "day-to-day" for most courses, but October snows don't melt off as quickly as April snows. May and September are generally golfable but both months will still have occasional snow closures and frequent morning frost delays.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KingWard

scbeachboy

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2022
319
811
93
I'm not a golfer but my best friend is a very good golfer and he keeps me informed of the state of the golf "industry". He says a major problem public (and some private) courses face is unrealistic expectations by golfers. Golfers watch tournaments on tv and see very expensive courses that have been coddled into near perfect tournament condition and they set that as their expectation of how all courses should look and play. Courses are astronomically expensive to maintain, even courses that are not in great shape are expensive to maintain. Labor costs alone can easily run into many hundreds of thousands of dollars a year at a small course. Equipment, fertilizer, pesticides, herbicides, carts, water (if a course doesn't have an adequate on site water supply), fuel for equipment, etc. all add up to make operating a golf course at any sort of profit a daunting task.

A private club with 500 members paying $600 a month in dues enjoys $3.6 million in revenue from dues alone every year. They also have revenue from food and beverage, pro shop sales and guest and cart fees. Even with those revenue streams, most private clubs are lucky to break even each year and frequently have to turn to assessments for capital improvements. Public courses rely on green fees, cart rental fees and what little clubhouse sales they can muster to try and show some sort of profit. I think it something of a minor miracle that any public courses are able to stay open.
As a retired golf professional this pretty much hits the nail on the head,
 
  • Like
Reactions: DrMickeySC

KingWard

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
5,496
5,925
113
As a retired golf professional this pretty much hits the nail on the head,
I had a golf course management person tell me the same thing. That big old asset is out there eating up resources whether the weather is fair of foul. It's hard to make money on a golfing operation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: scbeachboy

WendellGee

Joined Jan 1, 2022
Jan 23, 2022
24
11
3
Lancaster Golf Club is in generally good condition, but several greens have been spot-treated with pre-emergent herbicide for some non-Bermuda grass. Hopefully, they will come around after the yearly aeration later this spring.
Probably post emergent. Pre em isn't going to touch weeds that are already present.
 

KingWard

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
5,496
5,925
113
If you have a period of bad weather, that revenue is gone forever. You can't make it back up.
That's essentially correct. Some people will play a round sooner or later in place of the one they originally intended to play on the rainy day, but the loss is unlikely to be close to offset.
 

Thunderstick

Active member
Jan 21, 2022
599
469
63
All of the courses in SW Montana are still very much in early spring conditions. The greens are in good shape, but shaggier and slower than they will be in a month or so. The fairways are starting to green up, but morning lows are still sometimes in the 20s, so they are just now coming out of dormancy. Weather-wise, it's still hit or miss for golf. We hit the 60s over the weekend, but the highs tomorrow and Wednesday are forecasted to be 38 and 40. Then, by Friday and Saturday, we should be back into the upper 60s.
TL;DR
 

KingWard

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
5,496
5,925
113
Probably post emergent. Pre em isn't going to touch weeds that are already present.
Could be; I just know the term that was used. This was at the end of the winter, before summer grasses started jumping, but I'm no agronomist. Maybe our greenskeeper isn't, either. We do have some noticeable encroachment issues. We are punching and sanding today and tomorrow, about three weeks earlier than usual.
 

Cockywilder

New member
May 13, 2024
47
14
8
Golf is for old men and rich white boys.
It’s no secret that golf is dominated by rich, white men ,likely because they’re the only demographic with personalities equipped to enjoy such an activity. Up until recently, I didn’t realize how much they control the industry.
 

KingWard

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
5,496
5,925
113
It’s no secret that golf is dominated by rich, white men ,likely because they’re the only demographic with personalities equipped to enjoy such an activity. Up until recently, I didn’t realize how much they control the industry.
I'm a blue collar golfer who has played a good semi-private course since 1977. Moreover, I am surrounded by blue collar golfers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: will110

Big JC

Well-known member
May 12, 2023
1,240
909
113
I'm a blue collar golfer who has played a good semi-private course since 1977. Moreover, I am surrounded by blue collar golfers.
There are a lot of blue collar golfers and a lot of courses tailored for them. They know the courses they play aren't going to be mistaken for the Augusta National. If all courses were kept to the standard of the high end courses, 90+% of them would go out of business because very few people would be able to afford to play on them.
 

KingWard

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
5,496
5,925
113
There are a lot of blue collar golfers and a lot of courses tailored for them. They know the courses they play aren't going to be mistaken for the Augusta National. If all courses were kept to the standard of the high end courses, 90+% of them would go out of business because very few people would be able to afford to play on them.
People don't appreciate that, for every Quail Hollow, there are scores to hundreds of Fox Creeks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Uscg1984

gamecox4982

Active member
Jan 21, 2022
408
272
63
Played Wildwood in Northeast Columbia yesterday.
Not counting playing in Arizona this past February the greens were some of the best I’ve played and fairways were excellent. However, the traps are some of the worse I’ve seen outside of Cobblestone Park.
 

Uscg1984

Well-known member
Jan 28, 2022
1,243
1,681
113
Old Works in Anaconda, MT was definitely in "spring conditions" shape on Friday. The greens were in good shape and fast, but the fairways have not had much summer growth at all. Anaconda got about 4-5 inches of snow on Thursday morning, but by Friday afternoon it was all melted off, so portions of the fairways were a bit wet, but not terrible. They were charging half-price because of the course conditions, but they really weren't that bad. Any time I can play a Jack Nicklaus course for $50, I'll consider it a bargain.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KingWard

KingWard

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
5,496
5,925
113
Old Works in Anaconda, MT was definitely in "spring conditions" shape on Friday. The greens were in good shape and fast, but the fairways have not had much summer growth at all. Anaconda got about 4-5 inches of snow on Thursday morning, but by Friday afternoon it was all melted off, so portions of the fairways were a bit wet, but not terrible. They were charging half-price because of the course conditions, but they really weren't that bad. Any time I can play a Jack Nicklaus course for $50, I'll consider it a bargain.
That is a bargain. By and large, what kind of grasses do courses favor up there? I could see bent on the greens in a climate that cool, but what about fairways? Fescue? Bent? Zoysia? Something else?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Cockywilder

Cockywilder

New member
May 13, 2024
47
14
8
A LOT of courses, especially those designed in the late 90s during the golf course boom, are NOT playable for the majority of golfers. They were billed as “championship” type courses, which most women can’t play, most seniors can’t play, kids can’t play, and a small percentage of avid golfers can play, because they are far too difficult. (technically they “can” play them, but they cannot play them well and are quite discouraging for those players).
 

KingWard

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
5,496
5,925
113
I have a different take, seeing players with varying abilities trying to play different courses.
@Uscg1984 - I intended for the question mark in the "bargain" sentence to be a period, and the period in the sentence mentioning several grasses to be a question mark. $50 is a bargain to play a Nicklaus course. I was seeking information about the agronomy on Montana golf courses, not recommending they should be any particular way. I was propounding certain grasses that I know about. What they have up there might be entirely different, and I would find that interesting.
 

Uscg1984

Well-known member
Jan 28, 2022
1,243
1,681
113
@Uscg1984 - I intended for the question mark in the "bargain" sentence to be a period, and the period in the sentence mentioning several grasses to be a question mark. $50 is a bargain to play a Nicklaus course. I was seeking information about the agronomy on Montana golf courses, not recommending they should be any particular way. I was propounding certain grasses that I know about. What they have up there might be entirely different, and I would find that interesting.
No worries, I assumed the question mark was a typo. I figured there wasnt any doubt a regular golfer such as yourself would know $50 was a bargain to play a Nicklaus course with a cart and unlimited range balls. That price also gets you access to a 3-hole practice course the Bear built around the range - excellent for settling a tie.

The fairway grasses are typically bluegrass, often with some fine fescue mixed in for the roughs. Greens are typically bentgrass. I know there are tons of different variations of all of those and a lot of new scientifically-designed strains that probably better cope with our climate than, say, midwestern bluegrass and bentgrass strains, but I dont know any details about that. I guess you could say I havent gotten that far "into the weeds" of golf course agronomy.

When vegetation does start growing around here, it grows fast. Our short growing season is partially mitigated by nearly 18 hours of daylight in mid-to-late June.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: KingWard

31 Flavors

Member
Feb 9, 2024
44
36
18
Golf will continue "right-sizing" until the supply and demand reach equilibrium. The "Tiger boom" from the late '90s to about 15 years ago got a lot of late Boomers and Gen-Xers (across racial lines, significantly) into the game. New courses were built. Eighteen-hole courses added a third nine. Courses that were languishing and would have gone under got a bump.

Trends since then:
1. Steady to runaway inflation affecting both overhead and discretionary spending.
2. Sloooowwwwwww play (modeled by big-name players, unfortunately).
3. Top Golf.
4. Indifference to sports in general, and especially to less kinetic sports like baseball and golf, among Millennials and Gen-Zs.