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What did we learn this season!?!?

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LakeCtyNewt

All-Conference
Nov 13, 2002
8,143
4,595
63
Well the frost has barely settled on another football season - my 43rd actually.

Minus this weekends games it was another great season. Here's the final captains log for 2015.

1 - That the Purple Riders, Vikings, Irish, Wildcats, Roadrunners, Broncos, Hilltoppers, and Ramblers are all best in class for 2015.
2 - That the testiness of the board has been at an all time low this season.
3 - That winning a state title is a lot harder than many people think.
4 - That we were again blessed with sensational senior performances - Lees, Brodner, Love, Skanes, etc.
5 - That the IHSA did a disservice to players, coaches and fans by forcing teams to play in the blizzard last weekend. Not safe not fun.
6 - That Phillips, St. Laurence, and Niles North were all great post season stories.
7 - That for the most part 1-32 DID work in 8A and 7A - IHSA us fans are on hold for. Classes 1-6.
8 - That the class exhibited even in defeat by Rockford Auburn is an example for us all.
9 - That diminishing you athletes accomplishments to make a poster feel better is the lowest life form.
10 - That my final season on the sidelines as a reporter was memorable - thanks to all the kids and coaches I covered this and the last 18 years. Farewell my friends.

Mic drop ............
 
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O

Ogre5530

Redshirt
Apr 23, 2006
433
24
0
With low gas prices that 1-32 shouldn't be an issue in any class. We learned the system is flawed and it should be changed for all classes! We learned the Catholic schools are dominant once again.
 
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B

BretEpic

Heisman
Jan 27, 2005
16,866
22,189
113
That it never seems to be fair enough for tax-fed public schools with ample resources.

I propose all privates must have a limb removed
 
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O

Ogre5530

Redshirt
Apr 23, 2006
433
24
0
You can have all the resources in the world, but when you have the option of pulling in whatever players you want resources don't mean a thing and your are naive to think so.
 
B

BretEpic

Heisman
Jan 27, 2005
16,866
22,189
113
Ogre5530 said:
You can have all the resources in the world, but when you have the option of pulling in whatever players you want resources don't mean a thing and your are naive to think so.
Click to expand...

They cannot pull whatever players they want. They are limited to local area, must get in a school, and have to pay tuition. Not to mention they must sit out.

Whatever skewed anti-private thoughts tell you though. ..
 
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Goomlah

Goomlah

Junior
Jul 29, 2011
3,127
312
83
11: That the 8A runner-up wouldn't have been the 8A runner-up if a certain school didn't decline a penalty in the final minute of the 1st round game. GRRRRRRRR.
 
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W

Wassup13_rivals219252

All-Conference
Nov 9, 2002
5,846
2,728
0
LakeCtyNewt said:
10 - That my final season on the sidelines as a reporter was memorable - thanks to all the kids and coaches I covered this and the last 18 years. Farewell my friends.

Mic drop ............
Click to expand...

Thanks for all your great coverage of HS football! I really enjoyed it!

Wassup
 
E

eagles2k3

All-Conference
Dec 26, 2003
1,922
1,212
0
LakeCtyNewt said:
Well the frost has barely settled on another football season - my 43rd actually.

Minus this weekends games it was another great season. Here's the final captains log for 2015.

1 - That the Purple Riders, Vikings, Irish, Wildcats, Roadrunners, Broncos, Hilltoppers, and Ramblers are all best in class for 2015.
2 - That the testiness of the board has been at an all time low this season.
3 - That winning a state title is a lot harder than many people think.
4 - That we were again blessed with sensational senior performances - Lees, Brodner, Love, Skanes, etc.
5 - That the IHSA did a disservice to players, coaches and fans by forcing teams to play in the blizzard last weekend. Not safe not fun.
6 - That Phillips, St. Laurence, and Niles North were all great post season stories.
7 - That for the most part 1-32 DID work in 8A and 7A - IHSA us fans are on hold for. Classes 1-6.
8 - That the class exhibited even in defeat by Rockford Auburn is an example for us all.
9 - That diminishing you athletes accomplishments to make a poster feel better is the lowest life form.
10 - That my final season on the sidelines as a reporter was memorable - thanks to all the kids and coaches I covered this and the last 18 years. Farewell my friends.

Mic drop ............
Click to expand...
Completely agree on #2. To elaborate, I think the bitterness(at times justified) is due to the rise of teams like Naz and Montini in 5 and 6a, which has taken it to another level. Montini and especially Naz are at a completely different level the they were 10-15 years ago. When I played against them, naz was losing in the first round consistently and Montini was losing to the likes of st joe Ogden in the playoffs. Their dominance (along with Bmac, Loyola, MC) is leading me to predict that within 5 years we will see the publics and privates separate. I would think they'll go 6 classes of publics and 3 classes privates. Just my two cents. Take it for what it's worth.
 
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pjjp

All-Conference
Aug 26, 2001
5,618
2,877
113
eagles2k3 said:
Completely agree on #2. To elaborate, I think the bitterness(at times justified) is due to the rise of teams like Naz and Montini in 5 and 6a, which has taken it to another level. Montini and especially Naz are at a completely different level the they were 10-15 years ago. When I played against them, naz was losing in the first round consistently and Montini was losing to the likes of st joe Ogden in the playoffs. Their dominance (along with Bmac, Loyola, MC) is leading me to predict that within 5 years we will see the publics and privates separate. I would think they'll go 6 classes of publics and 3 classes privates. Just my two cents. Take it for what it's worth.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. How much more tinkering (multipliers, success factors etc.) can be done? Separation of public and privates appears inevitable. It's done in many other states. It will eventually happen in IL as well.
 
M

MWittman

Senior
Nov 22, 2004
6,689
954
0
pjjp said:
I agree with this. How much more tinkering (multipliers, success factors etc.) can be done? Separation of public and privates appears inevitable. It's done in many other states. It will eventually happen in IL as well.
Click to expand...

pjjp:

Nothing more can be done.

The victories legitimately earned by Bishop McNamara, Nazareth Academy, Montini and Loyola have only inspired the junta manning the bunker inside the Temple of Denial in Springfield to find more creative methods to deny Catholic schools what they have deserve in an already tilted playing field.

In the meantime, we should expect further discussion from a sample of members here, all of whom will dedicate themselves to uttering falsehoods to invalidate victories in four classes.
 
C

capnbillhitters

Senior
May 18, 2015
1,666
845
0
Thanks Newt. I do agree that coach is the biggest part of the equation.

You guys can all laugh at this, but without Hetlett, GW is a .500 football school. With him, we are 51-3 over last four years and 96-8 over the last eight.

It's been fun mixing it up with you guys. I hope I wasn't part of the negativity on the board. As I told the Lees family last night, I would never criticize a 17 year old boy and cringe whenever I see anyone do so.
 
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T

Thedoctor50

Freshman
Jun 10, 2013
220
90
0
capnbillhitters said:
Thanks Newt. I do agree that coach is the biggest part of the equation.

You guys can all laugh at this, but without Hetlett, GW is a .500 football school. With him, we are 51-3 over last four years and 96-8 over the last eight.

It's been fun mixing it up with you guys. I hope I wasn't part of the negativity on the board. As I told the Lees family last night, I would never criticize a 17 year old boy and cringe whenever I see anyone do so.
Click to expand...
You mean someone else's 17 year old, right? I am criticizing mine all the time!
 
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F

Fortis2005

Redshirt
Sep 22, 2010
19
6
0
goomsback said:
11: That the 8A runner-up wouldn't have been the 8A runner-up if a certain school didn't decline a penalty in the final minute of the 1st round game. GRRRRRRRR.
Click to expand...
I don't post much but love to here the story Gooms you always seem to have the skinny on stuff. Your talking about ND 's playoff ?
 
L

LHSTigers94

All-Conference
Oct 25, 2004
3,173
2,437
93
LakeCtyNewt said:
Gotta be able to stop someone to beat a team like Althoff. Marist defense isn't state title worthy
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I agree but Althoff defense was equally as bad plus there is absolutely nothing physical about them. I am sure Althoff would struggle to win 2 games in the ESCC. I can't pretend that they would win a playoff game in 8a let alone make it to the title game.
 
C

Corey90

All-Conference
Aug 27, 2005
8,642
4,068
113
LakeCtyNewt said:
Here's a thought I use as a coach. You wanna shut up the opponent, beat them, get better, work harder. It can, will and does happen.
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That thought is fine when you have equal talent. You can't replace talent its God given.
Recruiting/Cherry picking the best talent from all the feeder programs in a 30 mile radius and acting like it's not happening is rediculious. Let me ask you this do you think it's by accident the same private schools are playing for the state championship each year. It's a fluke if they are not? Why do you think this is happening? Don't say it's coaching because it's not.
 
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L

LakeCtyNewt

All-Conference
Nov 13, 2002
8,143
4,595
63
corey90 said:
That thought is fine when you have equal talent. You can't replace talent its God given.
Recruiting/Cherry picking the best talent from all the feeder programs in a 30 mile radius and acting like it's not happening is rediculious. Let me ask you this do you think it's by accident the same private schools are playing for the state championship each year. It's a fluke if they are not? Why do you think this is happening? Don't say it's coaching because it's not.
Click to expand...

But the same schools other than Montini aren't. Loyola has made three trips in the last 20 years - one title. NAZ two trips ever - 2 titles. Montini is more the exception rather than the rule.

Clearly very good coaches get there
 
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pjjp

All-Conference
Aug 26, 2001
5,618
2,877
113
corey90 said:
That thought is fine when you have equal talent. You can't replace talent its God given.
Recruiting/Cherry picking the best talent from all the feeder programs in a 30 mile radius and acting like it's not happening is rediculious. Let me ask you this do you think it's by accident the same private schools are playing for the state championship each year. It's a fluke if they are not? Why do you think this is happening? Don't say it's coaching because it's not.
Click to expand...
You are an old LWE guy. Isn't Provi LWE's main private competitor for student/athletes in the LWE district? Hasn't LWE beaten Provi every meeting? How do you account for that? Provi is one of the most successful private schools in the state, yet they can't leverage this advantage you speak to and beat LWE? If I'm not mistaken, the Griffins are 5-0 against the Celtics.
 
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WP606

Redshirt
Oct 30, 2015
55
28
0
LakeCtyNewt said:
But the same schools other than Montini aren't. Loyola has made three trips in the last 20 years - one title. NAZ two trips ever - 2 titles. Montini is more the exception rather than the rule.

Clearly very good coaches get there
Click to expand...


Totally agree, teams with all the talent in the world but without the discipline to play the game intelligently aren't the ones who get far in the playoffs. Saw plenty of pointless personal fouls and some celebrating/taunting throughout this season from players out there who seem to just want to have fun but not necessarily win the game (too much influence from the Pros, especially playing in short-sleeves and many did this weekend...yikes)

It's the coach's job to instill that discipline and all the talent in the world isn't going to work for the player if they won't listen or don't want to learn. Benching is the only thing that works in that situation, though outside pressure doesn't always make that an alternative.
 
L

LakeCtyNewt

All-Conference
Nov 13, 2002
8,143
4,595
63
corey90 said:
That thought is fine when you have equal talent. You can't replace talent its God given.
Recruiting/Cherry picking the best talent from all the feeder programs in a 30 mile radius and acting like it's not happening is rediculious. Let me ask you this do you think it's by accident the same private schools are playing for the state championship each year. It's a fluke if they are not? Why do you think this is happening? Don't say it's coaching because it's not.
Click to expand...

But the same schools other than Montini aren't. Loyola has made three trips in the last 20 years - one title. NAZ two trips ever - 2 titles. Montini is more the exception rather than the rule.

Clearly very good coaches get there
 
C

capnbillhitters

Senior
May 18, 2015
1,666
845
0
WP606 said:
. Saw plenty of pointless personal fouls and some celebrating/taunting throughout this season from players out there who seem to just want to have fun but not necessarily win the game (too much influence from the Pros, especially playing in short-sleeves and many did this weekend...yikes)
.
Click to expand...

For clarity, are you saying that wearing short sleeves is a bad thing? Does that apply to all players?
 
R

ramblinman_rivals165935

All-Conference
Jul 18, 2001
9,102
2,802
0
corey90 said:
Recruiting/Cherry picking the best talent from all the feeder programs in a 30 mile radius and acting like it's not happening is rediculious.
Click to expand...

What school, specifically, does exactly that?

And, if it is as easy to "cherry pick the best talent" as you seem to think it is, why didn't private schools get talent like Brodner, Lees, the Harley-Hamptons, Oles, etc...? Of the six Rivals 4 star recruits in Illinois, why is only one of them at a private school? Why are eight of the top ten Rivals recruits at public schools? Why are Brokop and Gavin at LWW and LWE and not PC? Why does Montini not have ANY recruit listed among the top 35 in the state of Illinois?

Seems to me like these damn catlick recruiters that you think are so prevalent are either terrible judges of talent or mediocre recruiters in terms of getting the most talented kids to come to their schools.
 
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WestSuburbanCatholicConference

Redshirt
Jun 17, 2015
195
42
0
capnbillhitters said:
Thanks Newt. I do agree that coach is the biggest part of the equation.

You guys can all laugh at this, but without Hetlett, GW is a .500 football school. With him, we are 51-3 over last four years and 96-8 over the last eight.

It's been fun mixing it up with you guys. I hope I wasn't part of the negativity on the board. As I told the Lees family last night, I would never criticize a 17 year old boy and cringe whenever I see anyone do so.
Click to expand...

I dont think that is far off at all. You can argue LT gets around the same talent, similar socio/economic areas, plenty of resources and supportive families, yet LT has manage to be nothing but a 500 for who knows how long.
 
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jdhitters

Freshman
Aug 31, 2013
234
71
0
WP606 said:
IMHO, yes I think generally it's kind of silly given the weather conditions..to each their own.
Click to expand...
I can say for some from GW it was a personal decision to wear short sleeves, not coach driven, and not driven by examples of pros. I agree it's dumb, but 17 year olds will only listen so much. I think we all can recall being told to put a coat or a hat on and disregarded the advice.
 
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LAguy

Sophomore
Nov 25, 2012
144
149
0
corey90 said:
That thought is fine when you have equal talent. You can't replace talent its God given.
Recruiting/Cherry picking the best talent from all the feeder programs in a 30 mile radius and acting like it's not happening is rediculious. Let me ask you this do you think it's by accident the same private schools are playing for the state championship each year. It's a fluke if they are not? Why do you think this is happening? Don't say it's coaching because it's not.
Click to expand...

Can you be specific when you ask which private schools are consistently in state championships as a result of cherry picking the best talent around? To answer your question specifically in the case of LA, no it is not an accident. Holecek is absolutely one of the best coaches in IL. He has proven that he can consistently reach the semis and finals with zero major D1 recruits, especially at the skill positions (this year being an exception). The consistency here is absolutely a result of the coaches and players full commitment to mental and physical preparation each week and in the off season. For someone like me who sees first hand the amount of time these varsity coaches dedicate to teaching football, your statement comes off as ignorant at the very least.

If cherry picking were so prevalent, you would think that a private like LA would be able to boast having more that just 6-8 full scholarship, D1 alumni over the past 10 years. But we can't. Would it be fair to say that there are several public schools in the state that have had more talent over the past 10 years?
 
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L

LHSTigers94

All-Conference
Oct 25, 2004
3,173
2,437
93
LAguy said:
Can you be specific when you ask which private schools are consistently in state championships as a result of cherry picking the best talent around? To answer your question specifically in the case of LA, no it is not an accident. Holecek is absolutely one of the best coaches in IL. He has proven that he can consistently reach the semis and finals with zero major D1 recruits, especially at the skill positions (this year being an exception). The consistency here is absolutely a result of the coaches and players full commitment to mental and physical preparation each week and in the off season. For someone like me who sees first hand the amount of time these varsity coaches dedicate to teaching football, your statement comes off as ignorant at the very least.

If cherry picking were so prevalent, you would think that a private like LA would be able to boast having more that just 6-8 full scholarship, D1 alumni over the past 10 years. But we can't. Would it be fair to say that there are several public schools in the state that have had more talent over the past 10 years?
Click to expand...

I have a hard time understanding why people think a D-1 player equal superior talent. There is huge difference between good high school talent and the D1 measurables. For example Ratay (sp) from Geneva and Ivlow from JC a few years back were absolutely great backs for High School. I would take them and their actual production over Moran (O'fallon) and others. To say LA doesn't have talent simply because the kids are not prototypical size is a bit off. I am not a person that thinks LA benefits from 30 miles as much as they benefit from having kids that will totally buy into the program. This is pretty common with successful private schools. One of the biggest issue with "free" students is their "free" mentality. Most want handouts which make it very difficult to get 30-40 guys marching in the same direction. In some cases the parents themselves are out of control which trickle down to the student athlete.
I think LA/MC/Montini/ PC etc do a great job with their programs and that shouldn't be taken away simply because they can recruit within 30 miles. I also feel that the type of student that attend those schools can not be overlooked either. There are advantages to both sides and it is a matter of preference. You will find that when there is a dominant public school, there are usually one or two players that are just outstanding which make up for the rest. When there is a dominant private program, you will see a plug and play team marching to the same beat. I would take either situation as long as it end with a championship.
 
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LAguy

Sophomore
Nov 25, 2012
144
149
0
LHSTigers94 said:
I have a hard time understanding why people think a D-1 player equal superior talent. There is huge difference between good high school talent and the D1 measurables. For example Ratay (sp) from Geneva and Ivlow from JC a few years back were absolutely great backs for High School. I would take them and their actual production over Moran (O'fallon) and others. To say LA doesn't have talent simply because the kids are not prototypical size is a bit off. I am not a person that thinks LA benefits from 30 miles as much as they benefit from having kids that will totally buy into the program. This is pretty common with successful private schools. One of the biggest issue with "free" students is their "free" mentality. Most want handouts which make it very difficult to get 30-40 guys marching in the same direction. In some cases the parents themselves are out of control which trickle down to the student athlete.
I think LA/MC/Montini/ PC etc do a great job with their programs and that shouldn't be taken away simply because they can recruit within 30 miles. I also feel that the type of student that attend those schools can not be overlooked either. There are advantages to both sides and it is a matter of preference. You will find that when there is a dominant public school, there are usually one or two players that are just outstanding which make up for the rest. When there is a dominant private program, you will see a plug and play team marching to the same beat. I would take either situation as long as it end with a championship.
Click to expand...
I agree with you 100% on all of what you said, especially with how being a great HS player has nothing to do with meeting D1 measurables. I am simply addressing the idea of "cherry picking the best talent from all the feeder programs in a 30 mile radius" and making the argument that it does not apply everywhere, more specifically in the program I am most familiar with. There have certainly been more than a few D1 talents within a 30 mile radius of LA that had the productivity to match their level of recruitment over the last several years that were not plucked from their public school either before or during their HS career.

I also agree with you in regards to some major differences in public/private programs and how success comes in a different ways. The "buy in" and "plug and play" ideas both suggest that a having a system and knowing how to identify the talent that comes in, then developing it and filling roles year in and year out is a product of good coaching, no? Just don't see the logic behind saying that private success is a result of talent and public is the result of coaching.
 
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