We've got 4 kids at Aurora Christian that play both football and wrestling.
Only 40 kids in the entire HS football program (10% wrestlers).
Only filled 13 of the 14 weight classes last year (30% football players)
How do the numbers work at Montini?
What did we learn week 8?!?!?!
- Thread starter LakeCtyNewt
- Start date
We've got 4 kids at Aurora Christian that play both football and wrestling.
Only 40 kids in the entire HS football program (10% wrestlers).
Only filled 13 of the 14 weight classes last year (30% football players)
How do the numbers work at Montini?
As a former Catholic, I would not say I am "anti-Catholic" but "pro-Christian" and "pro-Bible". I'm a non-denominational Christian but that does not make me "anti-Catholic". Perhaps you are the one stirring the pot. After all, this is a high school football forum.
How about we leave it at Public and Private. There is way too much division in the world. Peace, love, and GO BLUE!
Your comment on the buses was ridiculous. Every school has buses. How should IC kids get to school -- on the backs of their guardian angels?
Your shot about the significantly discounted tuition for football players is an old canard that's been tossed at Catholic schools for decades. Come up for air and bring up something new.
Every school does not have buses. Aurora Christian did not get buses until last year and they are for transporting athletes to games, not picking up students from their homes.
I am sure there are many schools with team buses that are not used for picking up students and taking them to/from school.
Agree. I think this has changed a lot in recent years. Wrestlers go from Folkstyle during the season to freestyle and greco in the offseason. Unless they are in the upper weights the drop off in wrestlers that play football nowadays is huge.
I will say though that IC is doing more in terms of their wrestling program. I don't think they will get at Montini's level any time soon but there has definitely been a push in the IC community to support wrestling. Montini is a national power now. I think they finished 3rd in the national rankings last year. They have one of the best high school coaches around. Questionable character at times but a great wrestling coach nonetheless.
doctor:
You have evolved into quite a revisionist historian.
No you didn't. You mentioned only how IC was a superior team with stellar talent, but you never said they could compete up to 6A. In fact, you offered dark hints there was something illegitimate about the players arriving at IC, suggesting something along the lines of how IC was able to attract athletes to a school with a large public school nearby.
Again, no it didn't.
No torches or pitchforks appeared. When I read your post, I gently asked you to justify your comments. In return, you pelted me with insults, inquiring whether I was suffering from some sort-of mental irregularity for questioning your supposed wisdom.
As far as the "couple of well-known North Shore types," again you are wrong. While there are a handful of "North Shore" types on this board, I am the only one to whom you directed hostility. Don't fret; I am uninjured with your insults or inaccuracies.
Which ones? Furthermore, how is this mainstream? One solitary poster writes how they would revel in the two teams meeting, and your response transforms one poster's remark into "people talking about IC competing" with an 8A superpower? Have you seen the responses which followed your original post? They ridicule the theoretical match-up with talk of a blowout and a running clock.
This is rich: Your two-word sentence is one of the most self-congratulatory posts I have ever read on this site. Your "how ironic" is a cheap attempt to pose yourself as ahead of time.
One final thought: Your entire post was an animus directed at me. You are free to judge me in any way you choose and I am not in the slightest offended. However, you only revealed the bitterness you keep with me is still smoldering some two years later.
If your Aurora Christian has no buses,how do the younger kids get to school? You know, those large yellow things on the highways?
Do they all get a ride from a parent? Must be quite a traffic jam.
MWitt,
Revisionist history indeed. I guess it beats revisionist present, which is what you do every time you make incorrect inferences and try to twist and spin. I don’t know if the old thread is still around, but I see nothing sinister in IC. Only said they are absurdly talented. I’d venture to guess there are quite a few reasons why, none of them skirting any rules. I most certainly implied that they could compete at a 6A level based upon the fact that they defeated a 6A semifinalist that year.
Torches and pitchforks, fire and brimstone... whatever you would like to call it. You read my post and assumed I was attacking IC for something nefarious. In reality I was mostly in amazement at how much better they were compared to the field. I believe I repeatedly stated that such mismatched competition at the time was not IC’s fault or problem. I continued the discussion with potential remedies that would equally apply to both public and private schools.
You conveniently ignored most of that and peppered me with circular rhetorical BS about meaningless points that I didn’t even make.
By the way, how did you know I was referring to you? Surprised you remember something as insignificant as you make it out to be.
I will now bid you farewell. Best of luck to your Ramblers for the remainder of the season.
Revisionist history indeed. I guess it beats revisionist present, which is what you do every time you make incorrect inferences and try to twist and spin. I don’t know if the old thread is still around, but I see nothing sinister in IC. Only said they are absurdly talented. I’d venture to guess there are quite a few reasons why, none of them skirting any rules. I most certainly implied that they could compete at a 6A level based upon the fact that they defeated a 6A semifinalist that year.
Torches and pitchforks, fire and brimstone... whatever you would like to call it. You read my post and assumed I was attacking IC for something nefarious. In reality I was mostly in amazement at how much better they were compared to the field. I believe I repeatedly stated that such mismatched competition at the time was not IC’s fault or problem. I continued the discussion with potential remedies that would equally apply to both public and private schools.
You conveniently ignored most of that and peppered me with circular rhetorical BS about meaningless points that I didn’t even make.
By the way, how did you know I was referring to you? Surprised you remember something as insignificant as you make it out to be.
I will now bid you farewell. Best of luck to your Ramblers for the remainder of the season.
Saint Francis didn't have bus service until a few years ago....
doctor:
Wait! Don't go just yet!
I don't understand "revisionist present." In fact, I have never heard of any such thing.
Given the circular maze of vague logic you mobilize to substantiate your arguments, most of which are implied, I think I do quite well.
None of which would apply to IC because the football program is in no need of any remedies for its brilliant coaching and superior play. This is, of course, unless you find offense with IC's success, and would like to see them punished for it through IHSA action.
Easy. You implied it.
I would normally ask you to explain yourself, but knowing your habits and tendencies you will just dodge my queries.
Wait! Don't go just yet!
I don't understand "revisionist present." In fact, I have never heard of any such thing.
Given the circular maze of vague logic you mobilize to substantiate your arguments, most of which are implied, I think I do quite well.
None of which would apply to IC because the football program is in no need of any remedies for its brilliant coaching and superior play. This is, of course, unless you find offense with IC's success, and would like to see them punished for it through IHSA action.
Easy. You implied it.
I would normally ask you to explain yourself, but knowing your habits and tendencies you will just dodge my queries.
Okay fine...
I must have missed the sarcasm on Newt’s (main stream) #10 and the subsequent responses regarding the hypothetical match up. But again, why would these folks want to see the game if they thought IC would get stomped? Some ill will?
I am looking forward to IC beating Rochester soundly in the 4A title game. I do not believe the Success Factor selective application is justified, and Rochester has made a mockery of this ridiculous concept.
Anything else regarding our exchange here should be chalked up to irreconcilable differences.
Have a nice day.
I must have missed the sarcasm on Newt’s (main stream) #10 and the subsequent responses regarding the hypothetical match up. But again, why would these folks want to see the game if they thought IC would get stomped? Some ill will?
I am looking forward to IC beating Rochester soundly in the 4A title game. I do not believe the Success Factor selective application is justified, and Rochester has made a mockery of this ridiculous concept.
Anything else regarding our exchange here should be chalked up to irreconcilable differences.
Have a nice day.
doctor:
I can not explain with any degree of accuracy posters' motivations, but I tend to believe some think IC would give LWE a game, and some would witness a brutal beatdown. I also think you would enjoy the teams meeting to achieve a sense of vindication over your postulating IC could successfully challenge or beat higher-level teams and, possibly, the Griffins.
I am not sure when you joined the forum, but I would like to give an example of a lower-level-class school confronting an 8A school. In 2011 Montini played Loyola at LA. There was much discussion here as many members of the forum anticipated the meeting with the understanding Montini was fielding, arguably, its best team ever.
For the Ramblers, it was a very good team, but not its best team in recent memory.
At the end of the first quarter, the score was 21-0 in favor of the Ramblers. At half, it was, I believe, 28-7. When the final gun sounded, LA triumphed 41-20. Montini was never in the game, ever. I also believe one could make the argument LA removed its foot from the gas pedal and had it not, LA's margin of victory would have been wider.
LA went on to appear in the 8A title game, which it lost to Bolingbrook, and Montini continued on its path to annihilate JCA in the 5A title game.
I believe a hypothetical meeting between IC and LWE would end similarly with LWE earning the victory.
I don't know if IC will beat Rochester, but it is possible, if not likely. For IC, should it reach the 4A title game and win, it would be quite a feat for a 2A team kicked up two classes.
What I would prefer is teams which demonstrate a dominance in once class over a three-year period voluntarily moving up. This would be ideal over the IHSA strong-arm tactics. Unfortunately, I don't anticipate voluntary movement because some coaches prefer the luxurious confines of lower classes in which they dominate over the mettle to play in higher classes.
If Phillips and ESL, two public schools, can petition up, then some successful Private schools can follow their lead.
I would venture to ask: Does a team finally figure its rightful classification when its dominance ends?
I can not explain with any degree of accuracy posters' motivations, but I tend to believe some think IC would give LWE a game, and some would witness a brutal beatdown. I also think you would enjoy the teams meeting to achieve a sense of vindication over your postulating IC could successfully challenge or beat higher-level teams and, possibly, the Griffins.
I am not sure when you joined the forum, but I would like to give an example of a lower-level-class school confronting an 8A school. In 2011 Montini played Loyola at LA. There was much discussion here as many members of the forum anticipated the meeting with the understanding Montini was fielding, arguably, its best team ever.
For the Ramblers, it was a very good team, but not its best team in recent memory.
At the end of the first quarter, the score was 21-0 in favor of the Ramblers. At half, it was, I believe, 28-7. When the final gun sounded, LA triumphed 41-20. Montini was never in the game, ever. I also believe one could make the argument LA removed its foot from the gas pedal and had it not, LA's margin of victory would have been wider.
LA went on to appear in the 8A title game, which it lost to Bolingbrook, and Montini continued on its path to annihilate JCA in the 5A title game.
I believe a hypothetical meeting between IC and LWE would end similarly with LWE earning the victory.
I don't know if IC will beat Rochester, but it is possible, if not likely. For IC, should it reach the 4A title game and win, it would be quite a feat for a 2A team kicked up two classes.
What I would prefer is teams which demonstrate a dominance in once class over a three-year period voluntarily moving up. This would be ideal over the IHSA strong-arm tactics. Unfortunately, I don't anticipate voluntary movement because some coaches prefer the luxurious confines of lower classes in which they dominate over the mettle to play in higher classes.
If Phillips and ESL, two public schools, can petition up, then some successful Private schools can follow their lead.
I would venture to ask: Does a team finally figure its rightful classification when its dominance ends?
In my initial post (#8) I expressed my surprise with regards to mentioning a hypothetical IC v. LWE game which I thought was overstating things. I had previously stated they were extremely talented, but not quite to this degree.
Posts 10 and 11 brought some rebuttal from this assessment, and the idea of a running clock beatdown was introduced.
I then reiterated that I agreed with the overall assessment of LWE being superior, although I think that it is possible that IC could keep it somewhat respectable. I also stated that I'd take IC (+40) vs anyone. See post #28.
In summary, we are in general agreement over how a potential LWE vs IC game would play out.
This is a tricky question. Promotion to the level of incompetence. I see it often in the professional world. I will just say that I don't like the current system. So it appears that we are in agreement there, also.
We can probably stop here. I think the thread is sufficiently off the rails.
Per Doctor D, since we are off the rails, perhaps I should introduce this for our good pal @MC63...
[2018] Immaculate Conception (Elmhurst, IL) 21, [2018] Mount Carmel (Chicago, IL) 20
[2018] Immaculate Conception (Elmhurst, IL) 21, [2018] Mount Carmel (Chicago, IL) 20
OMG. Lmao. Would of been better if you said running clock by halftime.
Half tuition waved? You must have only paid about a nickel per year way back then!
Oh no! It can’t be. Oh man that is good. I see the Trib being thrown against the wall as we speak!
And just imagine if IC had better bus service. The spread might even be larger.
Tuition was $200 .. I paid one hundred. Books and fees were the same,. however.
My dad died half-way through my freshman year. He had been on strike for months and never joined the fathers' club. Had he done so, my tuition would have been free. Don't get me started.
Privateone - when did you graduate?
While I think IC would be competitive MC would IMO win this matchup by at least 7 points. Bigger team in size and players. Like both teams but trying to stay real. MC63: Very tough to have lost your dad while still in high school. Have a friend whose dad died while he was in grammar school and that kid worked on lawns, paper routes and a host of other things to help his mom keep the family going. Have so much respect for his character and dedication to his family. Glad you stuck out Mt. Carmel. My friend went to St. Rita and though I never asked him I would bet the Augustinians also discounted his tuition.
Thank you Gene.
I'm sure the Augustinians gave him and his family some relief. I've always heard good things about them, especially from my numerous -- almost endless -- group of buddies who went to Mendel. I know I got grief about MC starting a bus service for students ... if Mendel had done the same thing, they might still be around. Same for Weber.
I have never gotten a wrestling first kid out for football. Had many football players who wrestled.