What do you think of the fact that Fast and furious guns used in Border patrol agent's death?
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Let me get this straight. When a guy goes blazing in a community college in Oregon or a movie theater in Colorado, it's 'guns don't kill people, people kill people'....except when the current admin is involved, then it's the other way around.
And, Liberal Dems would attempt to convince us that the guns got to the border on their own volition - and self aimed and pulled the trigger.
Would you accept "conspiracy to.... in the charge against the AG?
So you are ok with F&F? Our Government arming cartels? Is that what you are saying?
That may be the most ridiculous statement I've read on here ... which is a pretty high bar.
Are you saying that that the current admin is saying people kill people instead of guns don't kill people ? That seems a little odd coming from you.
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Simply put in more direct language so Dems can stop obfuscating. Don't tell me that I am wrong and allow me to figure out what you are implying . Tell me WHAT is wrong so I can direct response to a particular difference you are attempting to suggest.
Where has anybody ever suggested that guns travel on their own and self-aim and pull the trigger?
If you want to talk obfuscation, that is what the right does consistently by insisting that the left's position is that guns kill people without human intervention. That is not what anybody is ever saying.
It is exactly that kind of behavior that keeps any meaningful conversation from ever happening. If you constantly misrepresent the other side's position or statements you can never even get to the starting point.
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That is a little more specific. We now can assume that people who carry those guns and point same and pull trigger are the culprit. May we now assume that "people" are a required participant? Guns cannot do the deed independently? Therefore, the 2nd does not have to be removed since gun ownership is not the problem and is provided for in the Constitution as amended,
Then, why attack the Constitution?
That is a little more specific. We now can assume that people who carry those guns and point same and pull trigger are the culprit. May we now assume that "people" are a required participant? Guns cannot do the deed independently? Therefore, the 2nd does not have to be removed since gun ownership is not the problem and is provided for in the Constitution as amended,
I've honestly never seen anybody saying we should remove the 2nd amendment. I'm not saying that there aren't people that have, but that isn't the predominant notion
If guns is not the predominant notion, I can see the reason for your first comment.
I think what should beyond question at this point is that there are people that simply shouldn't have access to guns. This is already the case for felons and I don't know that anybody argues that.
Now. How do we protect the rights of responsible gun owners while keeping guns out of the hands of those that shouldn't have them? I have absolutely no idea what the answer to that question is.
Maybe the answer is that our freedoms are simply worth the inherent risks. I'm honestly comfortable with that. However, I'm also troubled by the seemingly increasing frequency of these mass shootings. I don't feel as if those feelings have to be mutually exclusive.
I'm not anti-gun ... at all. I grew up in WV for crying out loud. I was shooting from about the time I was strong enough to hold a gun up. I don't own any guns now, but only because I don't hunt anymore and I don't feel I need any for protection (I've always lived in relatively safe areas), and I've got tons of other hobbies to keep me busy.
See, you can actually post thoughts that are logical and would be difficult to challenge. Had this been your first offering, I would not have sat here and attempted to point out the error of your ways. But, don't get too damned good, I may actually agree with you and have nothing to offer in the way of a correction.
I too grew up in WV and my older brother allowed me to go hunting with him -he was the best around. Cold as hell, so I stuck the barrel of the gun down into my boot and moved about mountains with hands in pocket. I thought I had the safety on, but to be sure, I pulled the trigger while barrel was in boot. I got the hell out of the mountains while I had one good boot to walk on and never went back. Good education that day - they're all loaded.
My father, grandfather, uncles, cousins all contributed to my learning proper gun safety at a very early age. Father in particular, but we had a farm that we all hunted and everybody was very safety conscious. I remember being pretty young and shooting a 4-10 and a 22 and then moving up as I grew older. I don't recall how young I was ... at this point it's possible I wasn't as young as I'm thinking, but I think it was around 6-8 years old.
I was probably frosh or soph when I retired. Old enough to know better. I knew I didn't belong.
I hunted a couple of times my Freshman year in college, but I think that was the last time.
A doe and fawn had approached behind me. It was windy so leaves were crackling anyway so I didn't discern their footsteps from any of other ambient noise. They meandered down to the stream below me and took a drink. Then continued up the other side. The entire time I was wishing I had a camera in my hand instead of a rifle and that was the last time I hunted.
I lost my desire to hunt after I got back from Iraq. I did not lose my desire for shooting however. I try to go once or twice a week.
I know where you are coming from. The last time I hunted was when I blew a squirrel off a limb with a shotgun on a beautiful fall day many years ago. After that , it never felt like sport.
One of my neighbors when I was a kid was an older retired guy who liked to tell the story about the only time he took his son hunting. He sat his son down and went off to another spot. When he came back to check on the boy, he asked his son if he had seen anything. The kid said that he saw a squirrel sitting on a tree limb, but noticed the squirrel was praying when he took aim at it. He didn't have the heart to shoot it.
On the other hand, I guess I was a heartless heathen as a kid. Even with that story, I never had any issues shooting squirrels, or deer, rabbits, grouse, groundhogs, etc. I haven't gone hunting in years, mostly because it hasn't been a priority for me to do it. I'm not opposed to the sport, but free time to spend on it is scarce. The last time I went was buck season in my senior year at WVU. I got one the first morning, spent the next day helping butcher it, then enjoyed the rest of the week's break with the family.
On the other hand, I guess I was a heartless heathen as a kid. Even with that story, I never had any issues shooting squirrels, or deer, rabbits, grouse, groundhogs, etc. I haven't gone hunting in years, mostly because it hasn't been a priority for me to do it. I'm not opposed to the sport, but free time to spend on it is scarce. The last time I went was buck season in my senior year at WVU. I got one the first morning, spent the next day helping butcher it, then enjoyed the rest of the week's break with the family.
I always liked shooting more than hunting. Sometimes I miss it, but I've got so many other things to do the feeling fades quickly.
Competing for a score gets your mind more focused to the point of being driven.
I've seen some stupid sh*t posted on this board, but this one takes the cake. You need to read the full account of Fast & Furious.
http://fortune.com/2012/06/27/the-truth-about-the-fast-and-furious-scandal/
Here's what I think:
We do the responsible thing when someone is convicted of multiple DUIs; we prevent them from using a motor vehicle for everyone's safety. When we know someone is mentally unstable, we do nothing to prevent them from accessing a firearm.
We do the responsible thing when someone is convicted of multiple DUIs; we prevent them from using a motor vehicle for everyone's safety. When we know someone is mentally unstable, we do nothing to prevent them from accessing a firearm.
Sounds good, but a lot of multiple DUI violators are still driving. I recently watched a show about a pro FB player who was killed in a single car accident due to speed. When he entered college from high school he already had 36 OUTSTANDING traffic citations and was still driving. His college coach banned him from having a car when the local sheriff told the coach he would arrest the player if he showed up in town with one. More and more of todays population don't have any regard for any rule of law. Do we institutionalize as many people with mental issues as in the past?
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Lord no. The trend of letting mentally ill people out of institutions started decades ago. This article mentions an over-reliance on medication, which makes sense because outside of the institutional environment, patients can simply refuse to take what they've been prescribed.
http://www.nytimes.com/1984/10/30/science/how-release-of-mental-patients-began.html?pagewanted=all
Is that with a brush too broad? A lot are taking their medication and lead a normal life.
Did you read the article? Of course there are plenty of people who take their medication as recommended. But there are plenty who don't, and it's very hard to get someone committed -- especially when they're taken in for evaluation and return to normal within hours or days.
Mentally unstable isn't easily measured. BAC is. Your point is completely valid, but "mentally unstable" has had a dynamic definition over the years. 50-100 years ago you could be institutionalized for all kinds of things.
I'll admit I'm no expert in the mental health sciences, but for starters we could use some common sense like repeated threats of violence against others, stalking, domestic violence, spousal abuse, child abuse, etc.
I don't think many judges even know what common sense is. We have seen time after time instances where judges have allowed offenders of the offenses you mentioned to walk free. The results are deaths that could and should have been prevented.
DV, spousal, and child abuse will inhibit you from purchasing providing a background check is run.
And provided that the information has been input correctly (including the applicant being truthful on the 4473) ... and provided that the state has a waiting period for a background check to be completed ... and provided that the dealer actually makes the purchaser wait if there is a waiting period. There are so many instances of holes in the system, and of dealers just ignoring the requirements, that it isn't funny. And yet, according to a 2014 article from the Washington Times that I found, a whopping grand total of 81 FFLs were pulled in 2013 for violations -- and there are 2222 licensed dealers just in Virginia.
In WV it's not a complicated process. The FFL dealer picks up the phone, makes the call, relays your information and gets the approval for the transfer. FFL dealers do not ignore the requirements, they know they can't afford too.
Do you really think it is necessary that I read what is probably slanted to fit the author's agenda. I fully realize some fail to take the meds and they run off the track, and there are others who take the meds as prescribed and they get the benefits intended. I have read and seen both sides. This is a story that is renewed every few years.
What is amazing to me is you wingnuts put the blame on the Obama admin for this yet conveniently divert blame in every other case of needless gun killing. No questions of "how did this psycho get this gun". It's always, "well, if you outlaw guns, only the bad guys will have them". But suddenly, the source of the gun becomes important to you. Wonder why that is?
Because Obama is black and we're all racists.
Of course some people take too many of the meds and get whacked out and say some crazy ****. They need to be removed from society until they can sleep it off. Hopefully they will stick to schedule real Drs set for their patients, and of course they have to refrain from those that are not prescribed to them. That too is tale-tale and they are not aware that they are really obnoxious while under the influence. Should take only those meds prescribed by legit professional and reframe from those street Drs.
