What does failure look like at WVU?

[Buckaineer]

Love it when fake fans put out fake news. Holgorsen didn’t go 7-5 and get extended, he went 8-5 in 2016. Six years in almost, not 7 years in. That’s better than WVUs average number of wins. He had already won the Big East, had a 10 win season and crushed Clemson in the OB by that time. He was forced to start early as HC unexpectedly when Stu slandered and libeled him and WVU and then left early. Holgorsen was already averaging WVUs historical number of wins per year but against the most difficult schedules ever faced and had shown improvement after transitioning WVU into the BIG 12 with a depleted roster that he improved. The following season he won 10 games again. Also the extension was for FIVE years not seven.

Dana Holgorsen receives five-year contract extension at West Virginia​

https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...ive-year-contract-extension-at-west-virginia/

Excerpt:
Holgorsen is in his fifth season with the Mountaineers, and is having his best season with the team since the Mountaineers left the Big East for the Big 12. West Virginia went 10-2 in the regular season with a 7-2 record in conference play.

In his six seasons at West Virginia, the Mountaineers have gone 46-30.

 

[Buckaineer]

Lmao! Rodriguez last 3 years he won 11, 11, and 10 games. And would’ve won 11 again had he not left before the Fiesta Bowl. He also won his last 2 Bowls at WVU. Stewart was 2-1 in bowls and won 9, 9, and 9 games all 3 of his years. Comparing Holgorsen to them is idiotic.

Holgorsen won against teams like top 15 Texas at Texas, top 15 OK State, Baylor when they were top five, Top fifteen ISU.

Rodriguez and Stu won against teams like South Florida, UConn and Rutgers. Huge difference and it’s idiotic to compare what he did to Stewart who couldn’t win 10 games or the Big East which Holgorsen did immediately. Holgorsen would have won 10 or 11 games a year if they remained in the BE, and probably lots of championships too. Plus Stewart never coached the team into a major bowl, he guest coached when RR bailed. Holgorsen did coach his team to a major bowl in season his first year, won and won in historical fashion over favored Clemson. RR had a similar level of success but not as many wins as Holgorsen but he was playing against a depleted Big East after defections, not a BIG 12 schedule ( with a BE roster that was well short of depth thanks to underrecruiting by Stewart.). RR had the three 11 win seasons, but Holgorsen had two ten win seasons himself.

 

[WVUALLEN]

How's Foldgerson doing now?

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Holgorsen won against teams like top 15 Texas at Texas, top 15 OK State, Baylor when they were top five, Top fifteen ISU.

When Holgorsens team beat a Ranked Baylor team in 2014 The next win he had against a team that finished in the top 25 happened in 2018. He went 4 years without beating anyone of significance. The majority of Holgorsens wins were against the bottom of the Big 12 and the scrub out of conference games. He had a terrible record against the top 25 and power 5 teams with winning records. Holgorsen never beat an Iowa state team that finished in the Top 15 or top 25 you lying sac. RR teams showed in Bowl games what they could do. In year 7 an RR constructed Team was beating Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl. In year 7 a Holgorsen constructed team was getting curb stomped by a 6-6 Utah team. That was the pac 12's only bowl win that season. They have Holgorsen to thank for that. He was a lousy Bowl game coach.

 

[WVUFanForever]

Love it when fake fans put out fake news. Holgorsen didn’t go 7-5 and get extended, he went 8-5 in 2016. Six years in almost, not 7 years in. That’s better than WVUs average number of wins. He had already won the Big East, had a 10 win season and crushed Clemson in the OB by that time. He was forced to start early as HC unexpectedly when Stu slandered and libeled him and WVU and then left early. Holgorsen was already averaging WVUs historical number of wins per year but against the most difficult schedules ever faced and had shown improvement after transitioning WVU into the BIG 12 with a depleted roster that he improved. The following season he won 10 games again. Also the extension was for FIVE years not seven.

Dana Holgorsen receives five-year contract extension at West Virginia​

https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...ive-year-contract-extension-at-west-virginia/

Excerpt:
Holgorsen is in his fifth season with the Mountaineers, and is having his best season with the team since the Mountaineers left the Big East for the Big 12. West Virginia went 10-2 in the regular season with a 7-2 record in conference play.

In his six seasons at West Virginia, the Mountaineers have gone 46-30.

Speaking of fake news

Why are you ignoring the BYU hoax?

Don't you owe a lot of us apologizes for calling us racists and nazis?

 

[BigLickMountee]

Failure at WVU is the closure of Mutts and the Sunnyside supermart as well as the ice cream stand taken down on High street beside Mario's.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Speaking of fake news

Why are you ignoring the BYU hoax?

Don't you owe a lot of us apologizes for calling us racists and nazis?

You should no better to expect an apology from a troll

 

[Jason Voorhees]

I think WVU and Shane Lyons really believe in Neal Brown. I don’t think it’s anything more than that with the buyout. Maybe this year will change that? I don’t know. However, IMO, year 4 should show improvement and so far it has not. I have a feeling next year will be the deciding fate for Brown. I don’t see him fired this year unless he goes 4-8 or worse. I think an ultimatum will be given for next year.

I think Lyons is going to give Brown every opportunity and he won't make a move until he feels he has exhausted every opportunity. The biggest Liability Lyons has is the extension and the amount involved. When Brown came to wvu he had a better resume than Holgorsen, Rodriquez and Stewart at the time of his hire. Lyons can't be held responsible on that account. Brown has had to deal with more curve balls then any other coach in wvu history. The NIL/ Transfer Portal is not ideal for schools like wvu. Covid happened at the worst possible time. The people who say everyone had to deal with it don't understand that not every program was in a rebuilding phase like us. The ones that were in the reloading phase were less effected. People need to knock off the Kneel Brown Shame Lyons BS. Brown and Lyons did not dismiss Vic because they wanted to make a political statement. They felt they had no choice. Keeping him probably would have led to more negative publicity especially with the trouble makers in the national media (See BYU). Vic was collateral damage. With that being said Brown needs to start winning some of these games. You look at the two games this season a play here or there and they end up in the win column. The problem is you can say that about last year and the year before. Realistically that has been the narrative ever since RR left. If wvu plans to move on from Brown I'm not sure what the options are going to be like. Before the NIL/ transfer portal young up and comers viewed this job as a place were they could make a splash. I don't think its viewed that way anymore. We might have to look at an older guy who's had success coaching at a few different places but has been passed over for whatever reason. John Beilen is an example of this paying off for wvu. Whatever we do I want it to be someone with an RR type philosophy.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Rich Rod is a fraud.

 

[Rootmaster]

Rich Rod is a fraud.

You say that a lot. Why?

 

[WVUALLEN]

You say that a lot. Why?

See pre Pat. See post Pat.

 

[Rootmaster]

Pat was still there after he left. So...my question stands.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Answer still the same. Was no better than cheddar before or after Pat White.

 

[WVUALLEN]

Pat was still there after he left. So...my question stands.

28-21 before Pat at WVU
32-5 with Pat at WVU
58-57 at Michigan and Arizona
45-26-2 at Salem & Glenville State two division 2 teams.

Small time winner Big time fraud.

 

[BigLickMountee]

there were a lot of exciting games under Rich Rod.

There were exciting moments under Holgorsen but he wasn't a winner, nor a winner in bigger games, like Rich Rod. I was a Rich Rod fan because he at least put us in a position to get to the NC game but Holgorsen was simply a pimp and the pig lip stick is put on to cover up ugliness.

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

28-21 before Pat at WVU
32-5 with Pat at WVU
58-57 at Michigan and Arizona
45-26-2 at Salem & Glenville State two division 2 teams.

Small time winner Big time fraud.

But from 2001-2004 he did show that he was the right pieces away from creating something special. Pat was one of those pieces. As seen by Mullen and Stewart after RR left, not just anyone could take Pat to the heights RR did. That being said, RR's post WVU career shows that his system/offense have become obsolete and he has not adapted to it. That combined with his douchebaggery during the split with WVU is why he should NEVER be given the time of day at WVU even as an assistant. I wouldn't mind a coach that favored zone blocking with supremely conditioned guys to compensate for our lack of 7-10 deep talent like RR did. Although expecting conditioning/discipline like that might make someone play the race card again.

 

[BigLickMountee]

Holgorsen won against teams like top 15 Texas at Texas, top 15 OK State, Baylor when they were top five, Top fifteen ISU.

Rodriguez and Stu won against teams like South Florida, UConn and Rutgers. Huge difference and it’s idiotic to compare what he did to Stewart who couldn’t win 10 games or the Big East which Holgorsen did immediately. Holgorsen would have won 10 or 11 games a year if they remained in the BE, and probably lots of championships too. Plus Stewart never coached the team into a major bowl, he guest coached when RR bailed. Holgorsen did coach his team to a major bowl in season his first year, won and won in historical fashion over favored Clemson. RR had a similar level of success but not as many wins as Holgorsen but he was playing against a depleted Big East after defections, not a BIG 12 schedule ( with a BE roster that was well short of depth thanks to underrecruiting by Stewart.). RR had the three 11 win seasons, but Holgorsen had two ten win seasons himself.

you have to wear panties at your second job and that's okay because panties on some people look good. So I hope at least you are taking time in your day to prepare for the work place.

you just state narratives or regurgitate someone else's ideas. I can't for you to respond to the BYU question.

Dumbass

 

[WVUALLEN]

But from 2001-2004 he did show that he was the right pieces away from creating something special. Pat was one of those pieces. As seen by Mullen and Stewart after RR left, not just anyone could take Pat to the heights RR did. That being said, RR's post WVU career shows that his system/offense have become obsolete and he has not adapted to it. That combined with his douchebaggery during the split with WVU is why he should NEVER be given the time of day at WVU even as an assistant. I wouldn't mind a coach that favored zone blocking with supremely conditioned guys to compensate for our lack of 7-10 deep talent like RR did. Although expecting conditioning/discipline like that might make someone play the race card again.

You can have him I'll do without the clown. 28-21 before Pat White. No thanks I'll take a real winner and not some **** lover dinner.

Give me a real coach and not the fraud.

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

you have to wear panties at your second job and that's okay because panties on some people look good. So I hope at least you are taking time in your day to prepare for the work place.

you just state narratives or regurgitate someone else's ideas. I can't for you to respond to the BYU question.

Dumbass

Bucky has ZERO to say or offer. Board would be better off to just mass ignore the racist scumbag.

 

[Rootmaster]

See pre Pat. See post Pat.

Answer still the same. Was no better than cheddar before or after Pat White.

28-21 before Pat at WVU
32-5 with Pat at WVU
58-57 at Michigan and Arizona
45-26-2 at Salem & Glenville State two division 2 teams.

Small time winner Big time fraud.

You can have him I'll do without the clown. 28-21 before Pat White. No thanks I'll take a real winner and not some **** lover dinner.

Give me a real coach and not the fraud.

We could only wish for this level of success and the success his recruits had under Stew. Your bias makes you look like a clown lol.

 

[The Bell Tolls for Thee]

You can have him I'll do without the clown. 28-21 before Pat White. No thanks I'll take a real winner and not some **** lover dinner.

Give me a real coach and not the fraud.

Obviously you didn't read my full post. I want nothing to do with him in any capacity. I'm just saying 2 things can be true at once.

One: RR is a piece of crap and the game has passed him by therefore WVU should not have anything to do with him in any capacity.

Two: RR was also a decent coach during those early years and accomplished a top tier 3 year run at WVU which was not just a few great players alone. Incompetent coaches, see Mullen and Stewart at WVU after RR or Coker after Butch at Miami, can underperform with a talented roster.

 

[BigLickMountee]

Bucky has ZERO to say or offer. Board would be better off to just mass ignore the racist scumbag.

not sure the board as a whole has the disciple to ignore her and her 10 aliases.

the aliases will keep the treads going innocently drawing in others.

She needs a platform like this to be seen. If importance is created here because it can't at the cash register (nothing wrong with working a register......we need that) the other aliases create the impression people care. But real people don't care. And regulars generally respond keeping the aliases going too.

It's a message board with little purpose but to throw tissues at the computer.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

you have to wear panties at your second job and that's okay because panties on some people look good. So I hope at least you are taking time in your day to prepare for the work place.

you just state narratives or regurgitate someone else's ideas. I can't for you to respond to the BYU question.

Dumbass

I am not sure bucky even has a first job.

 

[ThePunish-EER]

I think Lyons is going to give Brown every opportunity and he won't make a move until he feels he has exhausted every opportunity. The biggest Liability Lyons has is the extension and the amount involved. When Brown came to wvu he had a better resume than Holgorsen, Rodriquez and Stewart at the time of his hire. Lyons can't be held responsible on that account. Brown has had to deal with more curve balls then any other coach in wvu history. The NIL/ Transfer Portal is not ideal for schools like wvu. Covid happened at the worst possible time. The people who say everyone had to deal with it don't understand that not every program was in a rebuilding phase like us. The ones that were in the reloading phase were less effected. People need to knock off the Kneel Brown Shame Lyons BS. Brown and Lyons did not dismiss Vic because they wanted to make a political statement. They felt they had no choice. Keeping him probably would have led to more negative publicity especially with the trouble makers in the national media (See BYU). Vic was collateral damage. With that being said Brown needs to start winning some of these games. You look at the two games this season a play here or there and they end up in the win column. The problem is you can say that about last year and the year before. Realistically that has been the narrative ever since RR left. If wvu plans to move on from Brown I'm not sure what the options are going to be like. Before the NIL/ transfer portal young up and comers viewed this job as a place were they could make a splash. I don't think its viewed that way anymore. We might have to look at an older guy who's had success coaching at a few different places but has been passed over for whatever reason. John Beilen is an example of this paying off for wvu. Whatever we do I want it to be someone with an RR type philosophy.

100% agree with everything in your post. While I’m not saying Neal Brown is amazing, I’ve been attempting to look at both sides. Those comparing previous coaches and success stories to Brown are not understanding how the entire college athletics landscape has changed. Everything everyone knew about building and maintaining a successful D1 football program has changed. The better question now should be, could previous coaches like Nehlen and Rodriguez have accomplished what they did at WVU if they were here now with the NIL and transfer portal. I’m not giving Brown a free pass, but the cards are stacked against him compared to those former coaches. Are we supposed to assume Pat White would’ve stayed all 4 years at WVU? Rodriguez would’ve had to keep recruiting Pat to keep him happy. Would Rodriguez have been able to keep Jarrett Brown as backup QB? Most assuredly not. Would Quincy Wilson have stayed to backup Avon Cobourne until his senior year? Most likely not. Which really could’ve devastated Rodriguez 2003 pivotal season at WVU had we not had Quincy. Remember “The Run” against Miami? How much NIL money would Noel Devine or Tavon Austin demanded? Would they have come to WVU? All of this is purely hypothetical, but also very likely and possible. Lastly, as for your comment that WVU may have to change their approach and find an older coach with previous success who has been passed over for whatever reason is very likely. A guy like Bo Pelini would be a very ideal candidate at WVU. And in my opinion, a perfect fit.

 

[WVU_Dave]

100% agree with everything in your post. While I’m not saying Neal Brown is amazing, I’ve been attempting to look at both sides. Those comparing previous coaches and success stories to Brown are not understanding how the entire college athletics landscape has changed. Everything everyone knew about building and maintaining a successful D1 football program has changed. The better question now should be, could previous coaches like Nehlen and Rodriguez have accomplished what they did at WVU if they were here now with the NIL and transfer portal. I’m not giving Brown a free pass, but the cards are stacked against him compared to those former coaches. Are we supposed to assume Pat White would’ve stayed all 4 years at WVU? Rodriguez would’ve had to keep recruiting Pat to keep him happy. Would Rodriguez have been able to keep Jarrett Brown as backup QB? Most assuredly not. Would Quincy Wilson have stayed to backup Avon Cobourne until his senior year? Most likely not. Which really could’ve devastated Rodriguez 2003 pivotal season at WVU had we not had Quincy. Remember “The Run” against Miami? How much NIL money would Noel Devine or Tavon Austin demanded? Would they have come to WVU? All of this is purely hypothetical, but also very likely and possible. Lastly, as for your comment that WVU may have to change their approach and find an older coach with previous success who has been passed over for whatever reason is very likely. A guy like Bo Pelini would be a very ideal candidate at WVU. And in my opinion, a perfect fit.

Only comment would be on the NIL as not being a big factor, as I'm pretty sure top athletes were getting paid before, it's the ability to transfer so easily that would be the bigger difference IMHO.

 

[WESTBGVA]

the players NIL contracts are private for now..but Ruiz at Miami likes to brag..over 7 million for around 100 scholarship athletes to rep lifewallet..each one is probably getting at least 50k
another is Texas..Horns with Hearts..every scholarship offensive lineman is receiving 50K.for very little work...on top of the education

 

[Jason Voorhees]

100% agree with everything in your post. While I’m not saying Neal Brown is amazing, I’ve been attempting to look at both sides. Those comparing previous coaches and success stories to Brown are not understanding how the entire college athletics landscape has changed. Everything everyone knew about building and maintaining a successful D1 football program has changed. The better question now should be, could previous coaches like Nehlen and Rodriguez have accomplished what they did at WVU if they were here now with the NIL and transfer portal. I’m not giving Brown a free pass, but the cards are stacked against him compared to those former coaches. Are we supposed to assume Pat White would’ve stayed all 4 years at WVU? Rodriguez would’ve had to keep recruiting Pat to keep him happy. Would Rodriguez have been able to keep Jarrett Brown as backup QB? Most assuredly not. Would Quincy Wilson have stayed to backup Avon Cobourne until his senior year? Most likely not. Which really could’ve devastated Rodriguez 2003 pivotal season at WVU had we not had Quincy. Remember “The Run” against Miami? How much NIL money would Noel Devine or Tavon Austin demanded? Would they have come to WVU? All of this is purely hypothetical, but also very likely and possible. Lastly, as for your comment that WVU may have to change their approach and find an older coach with previous success who has been passed over for whatever reason is very likely. A guy like Bo Pelini would be a very ideal candidate at WVU. And in my opinion, a perfect fit.

Bo Pelini would be an interesting guy. I think his Brand of football is highly compatible with what has had success at wvu. I Also like the fact that Pelini has some snarl to him. One of my concerns with Brown is he is to nice of a guy. Most winning coach's are not the nicest people but there teams always seem to run with a high level of proficiency and discipline. Players that play for a coach like Pelini know if the keep Fu%%ing up their balls will be hanged on the gallow. Also going with a older guy we wouldn't have to pay as much up front to hire them. They also don't have as much to lose by taking the job. If they do have success they would be less likely to be pursued by the royals. Blue bloods in most cases like to pursue the younger candidates that have success at mid level power 5 schools as opposed to the older guys.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Only comment would be on the NIL as not being a big factor, as I'm pretty sure top athletes were getting paid before, it's the ability to transfer so easily that would be the bigger difference IMHO.

Before NIL, yes there was cheating under the table with the top athletes but not to the extent there is now. Its much easier to pay players when you don't have to hide the money. It won't be long before Alabama, Osu and the others like them entire roster is made up of paid players.

 

[Rootmaster]

College sports suck today.

 

[WESTBGVA]

Before NIL, yes there was cheating under the table with the top athletes but not to the extent there is now. Its much easier to pay players when you don't have to hide the money. It won't be long before Alabama, Osu and the others like them entire roster is made up of paid players.

it already is..High Tide Traditions

 

[ThePunish-EER]

Bo Pelini would be an interesting guy. I think his Brand of football is highly compatible with what has had success at wvu. I Also like the fact that Pelini has some snarl to him. One of my concerns with Brown is he is to nice of a guy. Most winning coach's are not the nicest people but there teams always seem to run with a high level of proficiency and discipline. Players that play for a coach like Pelini know if the keep Fu%%ing up their balls will be hanged on the gallow. Also going with a older guy we wouldn't have to pay as much up front to hire them. They also don't have as much to lose by taking the job. If they do have success they would be less likely to be pursued by the royals. Blue bloods in most cases like to pursue the younger candidates that have success at mid level power 5 schools as opposed to the older guys.

There’s a lot of truth to this. I’d venture to say nearly every legendary HC has been a prick and controlling person known for extreme discipline. There’s a correlation in my opinion to strong and successful military leaders. Pelini checks all the right boxes for WVU. Personality, Style, Scheme, Attitude, Success. He brings it all

1.). Still Only 54 years old and considered young despite coaching for what seems to be forever

2.). Coached defense on 3 different teams in the NFL from 1994-2002 (San Francisco, New England, Green Bay)

3.) HC at Nebraska for 7 years and won 10 games 3 times and never won less than 9 games. Won the Big 12 North 4 times in 7 total years.

4.) Has Big 12 HC experience. See above

5.) Was born and raised close by in Youngstown, Ohio

6.) Experienced DC with successful stops at LSU and Oklahoma. Won a National Championship at LSU in 2007 as their DC.

7.) Known to have a hard nosed edge and attitude we’ve been missing since Rodriguez and Barwis left.

8.) Plays smash mouth football that has always excelled in Morgantown.

9.) HC career record 100-55. 4-3 Bowl record

 

[steeleer]

Failure at WVU is the closure of Mutts and the Sunnyside supermart as well as the ice cream stand taken down on High street beside Mario's.

You left out The Library and Dr John's

 

[op2]

Failure at WVU is the closure of Mutts and the Sunnyside supermart as well as the ice cream stand taken down on High street beside Mario's.

I refuse to believe that the Sunnyside Superette has closed.

 

[Volatility_rivals135605]

Losing to your arch rival.
then....
Losing at home to the worst team in your conference

I dont think there is anything realistic that he can do to salvage the season that would turn opinion around..

Every year is a new year..... We'll see if Kansas is the worst team in the conference. Its two tough losses, no doubt, we are all pissed about it, esp given how we have shot ourselves in the foot in both games. But, if this team cleans those things up and improves as the season continues(as a young team should), then we can still end the season with 7-8 wins + bowl game.

In which case I think JTD will likely come back again next year. I was simply hoping to see progress this year. In many ways we have seen it, despite the losses, but stupid mistakes is whats so fkn aggravating...

Next year is when I think will be our first 10+ win season under Brown. Thatll be the first team thats mostly upperclassmen, talented, & experienced since Brown took over... So if Brown gets 7+ wins this year, next season will be the year that I personally have high expectations and if those are not met, Ill be the first on the FIRE BROWN Train. However, if Brown only wins 5-6 games this year, Ill also be on that train. I simply dont see a benefit to firing him now or in the middle of the season(unless its obvious)...

Losing Charles Woods was a MASSIVE loss..... A major hit to our secondary, and of all places the last we needed to take a hit to 1st string talent... Esp one that could have been one of the better CBs in the BIG12... BUT.... that should make for a better unit next year, as the younger cats will get more time, development, and Woods will be eligible to come back again next year.

If just 100K of the 1.8Million of us fans donated just $25 per month, that would be $30Million per year. Plenty enough to pay a buyout, hire a high-end staff, allocate to NIL, and secure a higher path...

So...... lets do OUR part as fans to secure the outcomes we want... Money dont buy wins, but it sure makes it a hellava lot easier...

 

[Rootmaster]

That would be money doesn't buy lol.