What if State had signed Steve McNair in 1990?
- Thread starter Rick Cleveland
- Start date
He would've never put up the numbers he did thus less recognition and the likelihood he goes undrafted**
Mullen gets a lot of crap for recruiting 2 stars and what not, but in reality he's doing his best to reduce the likelihood that this ever happens again. Favre, Peyton, and Rice are considered among the top or the top player of their positions in NFL history and were all completely looked over by the Mississippi SEC schools. That stings.
Mississippi's rural nature will always make it harder for other big programs to find the good ones but there's no excuse for Ole Miss or MSU missing on those players.
Mississippi's rural nature will always make it harder for other big programs to find the good ones but there's no excuse for Ole Miss or MSU missing on those players.
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I think with the QB development that the SEC could have provided, he could have been a Cam Newton. Both OM and MSU had some decent teams 1990-1993 that went to lower tier bowls. WHo knows--he might have made either team into a legitimate threat for at least the upper tier of the SEC.
So Mullen is recruiting 2 stars to keep from missing the next real diamond in the rough from Mississippi ? I don`t know what your occupation is but it ought to be politics....that is some serious spin there my friend.
.... Because Mullen hasn't said 1,000 times since his hiring, not including the 500 times in his hiring press conference, that the best players in Mississippi have been looked over by MSU and he will do everything in his power to keep that from happening again..... And because we haven't been the only school to offer kids who have been fantastic for us that went to schools where they graduated with 50 people....
I don't understand what you're getting at. Mississippi produces MAYBE 1 bluechip player every year and instead of going to another state to pick up more Mullen has made rural Mississippi a priority. Is there an argument here?
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The argument (if there is one) is exactly how many 2 stars do you bring in every year to find that elusive "diamond in the rough" ?
2009 class:
Four 2 stars
Two I've never heard of, other two were Darius Slay and Johnathan McKenzie. Darius became one of the best CB's in school history. McKenzie was as solid as they come until he decided to solely focus on academics.
2010 class (Mullen's weakest class to date in rankings)
Thirteen 2 stars
Six are now either starters or first subs, including some of our best players in Dillon Day, Jameon Lewis, Jamerson Love, Brandon Hill, and Malcolm Johnson.
2011 class:
Seven 2 stars
All-American Benardrick McKinney, starter Preston Smith, key reserves Kendrick Market, Justin Malone, and Taveze Calhoun, and sign-and-place Shaquille Perry...... along with Hevesey's boy Joey Trapp.
2012 class:
Four 2 stars
Redshirts, so too soon to really say anything about these guys other than Dylan Holley, who provides us a rotation OL. Not horrible. Not great. Does what a backup C/G does. Schuessler left after a week to go play with his friend/brother Nkemdiche at Clemson.*
2013 class:
Two 2 stars
Too soon to gauge anyone because they just showed up on campus, but Damien Williams was an all-state selection for Louisiana on his way to winning a state championship and receiving 8 scholarship offers and Tolando Cleveland was a long time Georgia Tech commit before flipping at the last minute who also had 8 scholarship offers.
Mullen signed a lot of 2 stars when the on-field product was absolute **** and has since tapered it off significantly, but when push came to shove and no one would give Mississippi State the light of day his staff proved they have a knack for finding unheralded talent. Because of that I think you'll always see him scouring the 1a ranks like he did this previous year and continues to do this summer looking for THAT guy. McKinney could potentially leave MSU as the greatest LB in school history, and he wasn't even good enough for an offer from Memphis. Think about that.
Nail on the head........
McKinney was our most athletic LB last year as a RS Freshman. If he gets better and progresses at the AVG rate from season to season, he will be amongst the best in SEC and possibly gone after JR year. One can safely assume, based on his progression throughout last season, that he will progress at a much faster pace than your avg college football player. He will be a difference maker this year, but he is still under the radar of a majority of people outside of MSU.
McKinney was our most athletic LB last year as a RS Freshman. If he gets better and progresses at the AVG rate from season to season, he will be amongst the best in SEC and possibly gone after JR year. One can safely assume, based on his progression throughout last season, that he will progress at a much faster pace than your avg college football player. He will be a difference maker this year, but he is still under the radar of a majority of people outside of MSU.
Hitchhiker: You heard of this thing, the 3-star player?
Ted: Yeah, sure, the 3-star player. Yeah, the football recruit.
Hitchhiker: Yeah, this is going to blow that right out of the water. Listen to this: 2... star... players.
Ted: Right. Yes. OK, all right. I see where you're going.
Hitchhiker: Think about it. You walk into a school, you see a 3-star player sittin' there, there's a 2-star player right beside him. Which one are you gonna pick, man?
Ted: I would go for the 2.
Hitchhiker: Bingo, man, bingo. 2-star players. And we guarantee just as good a player as the 3-star folk.
Ted: You guarantee it? That's - how do you do that?
Hitchhiker: If you're not happy with the first 2 stars, we're gonna send you the extra star free. You see? That's it. That's our motto. That's where we're comin' from. That's from "A" to "B".
Ted: That's right. That's - that's good. That's good. Unless, of course, somebody comes up with 1-star players. Then you're in trouble, huh?
[Hitchhiker convulses]
Hitchhiker: No! No, no, not 1! I said 2. Nobody's comin' up with 1. Who recruits 1-stars? Not even a mouse on a wheel.
Ted: That - good point.
Hitchhiker: 2's the key number here. Think about it. 2-pac, 1-2 buckle my shoe. 2, that's the number. 2 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.
Ted: Why?
Hitchhiker: 'Cause you're 17'n fired!
Ted: Yeah, sure, the 3-star player. Yeah, the football recruit.
Hitchhiker: Yeah, this is going to blow that right out of the water. Listen to this: 2... star... players.
Ted: Right. Yes. OK, all right. I see where you're going.
Hitchhiker: Think about it. You walk into a school, you see a 3-star player sittin' there, there's a 2-star player right beside him. Which one are you gonna pick, man?
Ted: I would go for the 2.
Hitchhiker: Bingo, man, bingo. 2-star players. And we guarantee just as good a player as the 3-star folk.
Ted: You guarantee it? That's - how do you do that?
Hitchhiker: If you're not happy with the first 2 stars, we're gonna send you the extra star free. You see? That's it. That's our motto. That's where we're comin' from. That's from "A" to "B".
Ted: That's right. That's - that's good. That's good. Unless, of course, somebody comes up with 1-star players. Then you're in trouble, huh?
[Hitchhiker convulses]
Hitchhiker: No! No, no, not 1! I said 2. Nobody's comin' up with 1. Who recruits 1-stars? Not even a mouse on a wheel.
Ted: That - good point.
Hitchhiker: 2's the key number here. Think about it. 2-pac, 1-2 buckle my shoe. 2, that's the number. 2 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.
Ted: Why?
Hitchhiker: 'Cause you're 17'n fired!
My take: McNair would have set every MSU total offense record and State would have won an SEC Championship. He was that good. He could have been an All-SEC safety, but when they saw him throw and run, he would have been the QB.
That may be true but I am not sure that infidelity = death.
Gotta watch out for those crazy ones, and they are all crazy.
Gotta watch out for those crazy ones, and they are all crazy.
He would have been our QB in 1994
So, he would have been throwing to Eric Moulds and Chris Jones, not to mention Shaston Coleman and Bernard Euell. And that was the year we had a backfield of Michael Davis and Kevin Bouie with future NFL FB Fred McCrary and our massive o-line blocking for them. Also, our QB that year was Derrick Taite who I'm pretty sure was stoned at least 25% of the time.
The thing is Jackie pretty much believed in three yards and a cloud of dust and throw it when necessary. I can't see him switching. He was also a horrible developer of QB's. And let's be honest- McNair would have been going up against SEC defenses and not Alabama State every weekend.
McNair played on a team that loved to throw the ball- and I think that helped get his name out there. He was pretty raw and was basically a phenomenal athlete free lancing against inferior talent. It was fun to watch because it was incredible.
That said, I think with McNair, we probably would have beaten Alabama at home (lost like 28-24 with Taite throwing a couple of picks), and maybe LSU. We lost to Auburn pretty bad- I'm not sure that we would have defeated them. Assuming we go to the Peach Bowl- well, we would have been fine as long as McNair stayed away from Moulds girlfriend.
So, he would have been throwing to Eric Moulds and Chris Jones, not to mention Shaston Coleman and Bernard Euell. And that was the year we had a backfield of Michael Davis and Kevin Bouie with future NFL FB Fred McCrary and our massive o-line blocking for them. Also, our QB that year was Derrick Taite who I'm pretty sure was stoned at least 25% of the time.
The thing is Jackie pretty much believed in three yards and a cloud of dust and throw it when necessary. I can't see him switching. He was also a horrible developer of QB's. And let's be honest- McNair would have been going up against SEC defenses and not Alabama State every weekend.
McNair played on a team that loved to throw the ball- and I think that helped get his name out there. He was pretty raw and was basically a phenomenal athlete free lancing against inferior talent. It was fun to watch because it was incredible.
That said, I think with McNair, we probably would have beaten Alabama at home (lost like 28-24 with Taite throwing a couple of picks), and maybe LSU. We lost to Auburn pretty bad- I'm not sure that we would have defeated them. Assuming we go to the Peach Bowl- well, we would have been fine as long as McNair stayed away from Moulds girlfriend.
What receiver from that era (other than Moulds) would have flourished the most with McNair at QB ? We had some pretty good ones but Moulds was the only "great" one. That may have changed with a world class QB.
If I was Dan
You have 25 spots right?
I try to get the top 15 in Mississippi knowing that odds are I won't get all of them. But I get as many as I can. Those are essentially the blue chips. Chris Jones, Ashton Shumpert.
I then try to get 3-5 guys that are freak athletes like McKinney. But maybe they are overlooked or raw.
I then try to get 3-5 guys that are good football players. High football IQ guys like Patrick Hanrahan. They are good players in high school, but maybe they are a tad slow, or a little undersized or whatever. But you know that they are going to come in and work hard and be good team leaders and keep their nose out of trouble.
Then you fill in the gaps with out of state players at positions of need or JUCO o-linemen or JUCO's at a position of immediate need.
You have 25 spots right?
I try to get the top 15 in Mississippi knowing that odds are I won't get all of them. But I get as many as I can. Those are essentially the blue chips. Chris Jones, Ashton Shumpert.
I then try to get 3-5 guys that are freak athletes like McKinney. But maybe they are overlooked or raw.
I then try to get 3-5 guys that are good football players. High football IQ guys like Patrick Hanrahan. They are good players in high school, but maybe they are a tad slow, or a little undersized or whatever. But you know that they are going to come in and work hard and be good team leaders and keep their nose out of trouble.
Then you fill in the gaps with out of state players at positions of need or JUCO o-linemen or JUCO's at a position of immediate need.
Ballard was Coach when Rice came out of high school
And told him if he could learn to block he could walk on. That's what I always heard. Bellard, sorry auto correct iPad.
And told him if he could learn to block he could walk on. That's what I always heard. Bellard, sorry auto correct iPad.
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The SEC wasn't the beast it is today. Air McNair would have put up numbers. I remember watching college games with McNair against Valley and some other team and they didn't even try so yes, him playing in the SWAC was the reason for his gaudy numbers but he was exactly the kind of kid Sherrill loved. Don't know why he didn't go after him
McNair had a great NFL career and some are questioning if he could have cut it in the SEC as QB of the mighty bulldogs.
Are you saying Sleepy was undisciplined or didn't fit what Jackie
wanted to run on offense? Jackie loved to run the ball. Sleepy was an option QB. He actually fit Jackie better than any other QB that he had. In that regard, Sleepy was a better fit for Jackie than McNair.
If McNair had gone to MSU, Jackie would have wanted him to throw the ball about 20 times per game. The only time we ever threw it more than that was when we were behind and had to throw the ball. Heck, Jackie fired Bruce Arians because he threw the ball too much- and this was a guy that would become a successful NFL OC and then a head coach.
I can't speak as far as Sleepy's discipline, but I don't remember any problems with him on or off the field.
wanted to run on offense? Jackie loved to run the ball. Sleepy was an option QB. He actually fit Jackie better than any other QB that he had. In that regard, Sleepy was a better fit for Jackie than McNair.
If McNair had gone to MSU, Jackie would have wanted him to throw the ball about 20 times per game. The only time we ever threw it more than that was when we were behind and had to throw the ball. Heck, Jackie fired Bruce Arians because he threw the ball too much- and this was a guy that would become a successful NFL OC and then a head coach.
I can't speak as far as Sleepy's discipline, but I don't remember any problems with him on or off the field.
I see what you are saying
We know that Steve had his issues with women which sadly ultimately killed him. He would have been around Derrick Taite, Greg Plump, Rodney Hudson- ALL QB's were arrested at some point in time during their MSU careers.
And you are right- Jackie was NOT the most disciplined coach in the country at that time.
We know that Steve had his issues with women which sadly ultimately killed him. He would have been around Derrick Taite, Greg Plump, Rodney Hudson- ALL QB's were arrested at some point in time during their MSU careers.
And you are right- Jackie was NOT the most disciplined coach in the country at that time.